Did you feel for any of the Apostles?

Hey there, I'm new to this here forum!

I was wondering if anyone felt sympathy for the Apostles with tragic backstories, such as the Count, Rosine, Ganishka, or hell even the God Hand's very own Griffith?

I certainly felt for the Count. To be betrayed by his own consort (with his enemies for good measure) is one hell of a tough break. Although I don't condone for a moment the monster he become, at least he carried some vestige of humanity - since he spared his daughter's life.

Also, I think Niko (sp?) from the *DC game had quite a sad tale. It would appear he sacrificed his only companion - his dog - to become the Mandragoran daddy.

*On a side-note: Did Miura have any creative involvement with the DC game?
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
I don't feel anything but hatered for apostles. No matter what tragic event has plagued their life, in the end they took the easy way out and gave in to evil. They cut their tie with humanity by sacrificing someone they love for their own selfishness. If I think about the people in this world who mean the most to me, I know that I would never sacrifice them to some horrible death no matter how unfortunate my situation is.

Don't sympathize with apostles!!! THey are evil now and they were evil enough to make the choice when they were still human.
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
Oburi said:
I don't feel anything but hatered for apostles. No matter what tragic event has plagued their life, in the end they took the easy way out and gave in to evil. They cut their tie with humanity by sacrificing someone they love for their own selfishness. If I think about the people in this world who mean the most to me, I know that I would never sacrifice them to some horrible death no matter how unfortunate my situation is.

Don't sympathize with apostles!!! THey are evil now and they would were evil enough to make the choice when they were still human.
Even if they are starting to show sympathy for humans and even anger towards the chibinishka's that hurt Humans? Is it too late for them to get redemption?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Doc said:
Hey there, I'm new to this here forum!

Hi Doc and welcome to SK.net! :SK:

Doc said:
I was wondering if anyone felt sympathy for the Apostles with tragic backstories, such as the Count, Rosine, Ganishka, or hell even the God Hand's very own Griffith?

Careful there, a member of the God Hand like Griffith can't be compared to an apostle! Anyway, I guess I did feel sorry for some of them. Rosine is probably the best example. The Count as well, to some extent.

Doc said:
*On a side-note: Did Miura have any creative involvement with the DC game?

It's like Rhombaad said: he wrote the story.
 

KazigluBey

Misanthrōpos
Doc said:
Hey there, I'm new to this here forum!

I was wondering if anyone felt sympathy for the Apostles with tragic backstories, such as the Count, Rosine, Ganishka, or hell even the God Hand's very own Griffith?

I certainly felt for the Count. To be betrayed by his own consort (with his enemies for good measure) is one hell of a tough break. Although I don't condone for a moment the monster he become, at least he carried some vestige of humanity - since he spared his daughter's life.

Also, I think Niko (sp?) from the *DC game had quite a sad tale. It would appear he sacrificed his only companion - his dog - to become the Mandragoran daddy.

*On a side-note: Did Miura have any creative involvement with the DC game?

I don't know if I'd feel sympathy for them. If someone like Guts can go through a hellish life and still maintain the ability to have friends/comrades and fight to protect them then I can feel sympathy for him. Sacrificing those closest to you in order to feel some sort of twisted sense of justice for their plight doesn't work in their favor. The count at least was faced with sacrificing his daughter and went to hell instead, sparing her life, so that was a step in the right direction.
 
X

Xem

Guest
Though not an apostle, I carried a bit of sympathy for Femto for a little while after the eclipse. Also, Rosine to some extent, and we can thank Jill for that mostly. That whole part of Berserk seemed particularly tragic to me. I never cared about the Count at all, he always seemed like a complete bastard to me.

If something happened to Irvine I could see myself having sympathy also, even though we know close to nothing about him.
 

KazigluBey

Misanthrōpos
Deci said:
Though not an apostle, I carried a bit of sympathy for Femto for a little while after the eclipse. Also, Rosine to some extent, and we can thank Jill for that mostly. That whole part of Berserk seemed particularly tragic to me. I never cared about the Count at all, he always seemed like a complete bastard to me.

If something happened to Irvine I could see myself having sympathy also, even though we know close to nothing about him.

I'd have to see the back story to how Irvine and other apostles became what they are before deciding whether they are deserving of sympathy or not. Seeing Griffith/Femto's end is one of the reasons I read Berserk, I feel no sympathy for him/it after the eclipse.
 
Well, I defiantly felt and still feel sympathy for Griffith (though he's not really an apostle). Rosine's backstory was completely heartbreaking for me too :sad:, and even though I never cared about Ganishka.. I did felt a little bit sorry for him in the end.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
Deci said:
Though not an apostle, I carried a bit of sympathy for Femto for a little while after the eclipse.

What? Can you explain how? I'm dying to hear this.
 
What? Can you explain how? I'm dying to hear this.

I think he meant the 'reborn' Griffith, maybe? (since they're both one in the same, for the most part). Femto is badass and creepy as hell, but hardly 'sympathetic'.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
noni_moon said:
I think he meant the 'reborn' Griffith, maybe? (since they're both one in the same, for the most part). Femto is badass and creepy as hell, but hardly 'sympathetic'.

Is that what he meant? I still don't get it at all.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
noni_moon said:
*insert deep voice of wisdom here* you will learn one day, son :griffnotevil:

There is nothing to "learn". He said he feels bad for Femto a little while after the eclipse. Thats retarded.

I guess he feels bad that he missed Skullknight with his telekinesis blast, he must have been a little worked up after brutally raping Caska all that time. He finally gets all these super powers and he messes up his first chance to use them, right in front of the GOdhand no less. Embarrassing!! Poor Femto :sad:
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I kind of feel bad for Griffith for sacrificing his friends, humanity and chance of happiness all for his dream, which is really a puppet show for an evil god. I think we'll see him realize his folly toward the end of the series. His character development isn't through, I'd imagine.
 
Yep, Griffith is merely nothing more than a pawn in the Idea's game in the end too. He could possibly become the first God Hand to have a problem with that...(the others seem to have accepted it). He is far too ambitious (reckless) to allow himself to be controlled.

And to answer the question, yes I do feel sorry for most of the Apostles that have had back stories, especially Rosine, the Count, Balzac (yes, I know the game is only semi-canon, but it's still a story written by Miura) and even Ganishka(!) Miura is a master storyteller and he gives us a good deal of back story, he doesn't over do it either. I do wonder how he will make us sympathise with the likes of Zodd (haha) and Rakshas (again, don't see it happening, but I thought the same for Ganishka...)
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Henry Spencer said:
Yep, Griffith is merely nothing more than a pawn in the Idea's game in the end too.

I wouldn't say that. He plays his part willingly and he gets the most from it. The beings who compose the God Hand are the direct agents of the Idea of Evil.

Henry Spencer said:
He could possibly become the first God Hand to have a problem with that...

What are you basing this statement on? Femto does whatever he wants, like the rest of the God Hand. Only what he wants was planned long before his birth and fits into a greater scheme. He has no problem with anything as far as we know.

Henry Spencer said:
(the others seem to have accepted it)

That's an absolutely groundless assertion.

Henry Spencer said:
He is far too ambitious (reckless) to allow himself to be controlled.

You're thinking of this way too simplistically. Besides, don't forget where Femto got his power and status from.
 
There is nothing to "learn". He said he feels bad for Femto a little while after the eclipse. Thats retarded.

I guess he feels bad that he missed Skullknight with his telekinesis blast, he must have been a little worked up after brutally raping Casca all that time. He finally gets all these super powers and he messes up his first chance to use them, right in front of the GOdhand no less. Embarrassing!! Poor Femto

Ummmm.. chill? =/ it's a joke. Besides, the guy is entitled to feel whatever the heck he wants to feel about any character. I personally don't know why would anyone feel sorry for the Count.. but hey, who cares, really?


His character development isn't through, I'd imagine.

Yep. I'd say so.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
noni_moon said:
Ummmm.. chill? =/ it's a joke. Besides, the guy is entitled to feel whatever the heck he wants to feel about any character.

Yea he can have his opinion but when he states something a little outlandish like that and all I ask is for him to explain himself you shouldn't start jumping in and making "jokes" and trying to answer for him.
 
Yea he can have his opinion but when he states something a little outlandish like that and all I ask is for him to explain himself you shouldn't start jumping in and making "jokes" and trying to answer for him.

:???: ... I think you're taking this way too seriously, dude. But whatever, nevermind. -_-
 
Aazealh said:
Hi Doc and welcome to SK.net! :SK:

Thank you, good sir.

And to answer the question, yes I do feel sorry for most of the Apostles that have had back stories, especially Rosine, the Count, Balzac (yes, I know the game is only semi-canon, but it's still a story written by Miura) and even Ganishka(!) Miura is a master storyteller and he gives us a good deal of back story, he doesn't over do it either. I do wonder how he will make us sympathise with the likes of Zodd (haha) and Rakshas (again, don't see it happening, but I thought the same for Ganishka...)

You felt for Ganishka? That's interesting. I haven't heard much feedback on his backstory. Would you care to divulge? I'd like to know your reasons. :)
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Doc said:
It's more or less the same premise: The individual succumbs to despair; the God Hand appear and offer them power for sacrifice. Griffith just ranked higher on the food chain than most.

Regardless of the premise, apostles and members of the God Hand are completely different beings and making an amalgam of the two is wrong. "Ranking higher on the food chain than most" is not a good way to put it either. That's not how things work. It's not fortuitous that Griffith became Femto and not just an apostle. It's not just because he was stronger than the others.

Doc said:
You felt for Ganishka? That's interesting. I haven't heard much feedback on his backstory. Would you care to divulge? I'd like to know your reasons. :)

His backstory is revealed in episode 303. He lived in constant danger of being assassinated as the heir to the throne of a small country when he was young. His own mother tried to poison him when he was 6 in order to put his younger brother on the throne. It failed and he killed his brother himself shortly afterwards. As a result his mother killed herself. Things went on and there were countless conspiracies against him while he grew up. His father himself feared him and was suspicious of him, and so one day while he was on a trip Ganishka had him assassinated. Once he became king there was still no respite for him as the leaders of other countries tried to take advantage of the situation to conquer his land. He fought in wars constantly and had to terrify his enemies more than he was himself in order to survive.

Following the customs of warring countries, he ended up marrying a woman from one of the neighboring countries' royal families and had a son. However, he was always away fighting battles, so he didn’t take care of his family. He was afraid of what they represented, a mother and her son, like his own mother and younger brother way back then. During all that time he conquered more and more land, becoming a great emperor whose ambition was to dominate every country in a futile try to suffocate his fear. Finally, one day, his son, who had become much like he was himself at his age, had him assassinated. But Ganishka had received a beherit from a nameless hermit (Daiba) a while back, and so he called upon the God Hand, and sacrificed his only child.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Honestly, I think the reader is supposed to feel sympathy for the apostles, especially examples like the Count, Rosine and Ganishka, where we're given explicit background details about how/why they became apostles.

If you DON'T feel sympathy, you're doing it wrong :carcus:
 
Aazealh said:
Regardless of the premise, apostles and members of the God Hand are completely different beings and making an amalgam of the two is wrong.

But I never spoke outside of the premise.

[quote author=Aazealh ]"Ranking higher on the food chain than most" is not a good way to put it either. That's not how things work.[/quote]

Isn't it?

IoE > God Hand > Apostles > Humans et al.

Looks pretty straightforward to me.

[quote author=Aazealh]It's not fortuitous that Griffith became Femto and not just an apostle. It's not just because he was stronger than the others.[/quote]

I didn't suggest either. I was merely saying Griffith sold his soul in the same way the Apostles did, except the reward was greater for Griffith.

[quote author=Aazealh]His backstory is revealed in episode 303. He lived in constant danger of being assassinated as the heir to the throne of a small country when he was young. His own mother tried to poison him when he was 6 in order to put his younger brother on the throne. It failed and he killed his brother himself shortly afterwards. As a result his mother killed herself. Things went on and there were countless conspiracies against him while he grew up. His father himself feared him and was suspicious of him, and so one day while he was on a trip Ganishka had him assassinated. Once he became king there was still no respite for him as the leaders of other countries tried to take advantage of the situation to conquer his land. He fought in wars constantly and had to terrify his enemies more than he was himself in order to survive.

Following the customs of warring countries, he ended up marrying a woman from one of the neighboring countries' royal families and had a son. However, he was always away fighting battles, so he didn’t take care of his family. He was afraid of what they represented, a mother and her son, like his own mother and younger brother way back then. During all that time he conquered more and more land, becoming a great emperor whose ambition was to dominate every country in a futile try to suffocate his fear. Finally, one day, his son, who had become much like he was himself at his age, had him assassinated. But Ganishka had received a beherit from a nameless hermit (Daiba) a while back, and so he called upon the God Hand, and sacrificed his only child.
[/quote]

Thanks for the summation. I have read Chap 303, but I haven't seen anyone reflect on his backstory.
By the way, I take it this part is a translation error:
'Obsessed with me, to make sure my younger brother wouldn't get to the throne, my mother poisoned him when he was only six.'

That makes it sound like Ganishka was being protected by his mother, instead of the opposite. Seems to be confusing the two brothers.
 
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