Author Topic: Episode 306  (Read 72326 times)

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Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #125 on: June 25, 2009, 03:26:48 PM »
That's a good question that brings out even more questions: can the God Hand still create apostles like they used to? Can they do it more easily now?

I'm pretty sure they're going to have an easier time since it's going to be seen as more of a way for people to defend their families/homeland from the horde of monsters.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 05:26:57 PM by Vampire_Hunter_Bob »

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #126 on: June 25, 2009, 03:31:14 PM »
I'm not really sure Miura will take it in that direction personally. That's not to say he WON'T, but I think it would be rather pessimistic if the people of Midland and beyond were nearly forced to become quasi-apostles -- monsters -- just to defend themselves. It would make their ultimate redemption later in the story rather unlikely.

I mean, these blind white sheep aren't evil. They're just trying to survive in a mad world. I don't think Miura would put them in a situation where they absolutely had to turn into monsters.
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Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #127 on: June 25, 2009, 05:30:51 PM »
I just don't see many routes for them to defend their selves. Yeah the apostles, but there's not enough of them to really deal with all the trolls, let alone a larger number of monsters that could rival apostles in strength. 

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #128 on: June 25, 2009, 07:16:42 PM »
You're forgetting, they have the absolute one on their side. :griffnotevil:

Anyway, I'd covered an even cooler idea in a previous thread: Griffith's dream castle on top of the hole that the Tower of Rebirth sat upon, and gruesome secret rituals taking place in the heart of the night, straight out of a Conan adventure.

:griff: : "Brings the prisoners to my private chambers!"

Haha, well, there's a good chance for both, even a combination of the two. In any case, I think an idealized city on the hill to replace Wyndham is the most likely scenario. It makes the most sense for something like that to appear at that location anyway; Griffith's magic kingdom!

Offline Neptune

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #129 on: June 25, 2009, 07:50:39 PM »
Amazzzzzzing episode :guts:
The highlight of this episode for me was probably the Ubik page though

I expected to see Schnoz running around though  :schnoz:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #130 on: June 25, 2009, 08:04:14 PM »
I expected to see Schnoz running around though  :schnoz:

Hopefully, we'll see him again now that the worlds have merged. :schnoz:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #131 on: June 25, 2009, 08:40:30 PM »
Haha, well, there's a good chance for both, even a combination of the two. In any case, I think an idealized city on the hill to replace Wyndham is the most likely scenario. It makes the most sense for something like that to appear at that location anyway; Griffith's magic kingdom!

Well I'll be happy as long as it's something I predicted before anyone else! :troll:

Seriously though, I do like the idea of a perfect city and castle very much, but I'm kind of infatuated with the tree possibility right now. I just can't choose one over the other, so I choose BOTH! :guts:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #132 on: June 25, 2009, 09:05:45 PM »
Well I'll be happy as long as it's something I predicted before anyone else! :troll:

:miura:

Seriously though, I do like the idea of a perfect city and castle very much, but I'm kind of infatuated with the tree possibility right now. I just can't choose one over the other, so I choose BOTH! :guts:

The only issue I have with the tree possibility is that on the previous spread before the last pages those branch like appendages are extending over everyone's heads for what looks like miles or more. The perspective making it look like they're no smaller going over the pontiff as the men at the front, which makes me think it's just the outgoing energy. Of course, it's not done yet and could always recede in the end. Anyway, I like the dream castle better for the fantasia theme. =)

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #133 on: June 25, 2009, 09:28:15 PM »
The only issue I have with the tree possibility is that on the previous spread before the last pages those branch like appendages are extending over everyone's heads for what looks like miles or more. The perspective making it look like they're no smaller going over the pontiff as the men at the front, which makes me think it's just the outgoing energy. Of course, it's not done yet and could always recede in the end. Anyway, I like the dream castle better for the fantasia theme. =)

Yeah, the idea of a giant tree also has some elements going against it, I won't be the one to say otherwise. And like I said, regardless of the tree, I want a dream castle/city myself. :griffnotevil:

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #134 on: June 25, 2009, 09:38:05 PM »
IF Ganishka were to turn into something, I like the tree idea the best. If for no other reason, giant trees seem to be a part of fantasy stories quite frequently, and actually serve many purposes. Surely Miura could come up with something cool out of this idea. Turning into a castle/city doesn't seem very likely to me, though I won't say that one won't appear, surely a mystical kingdom is a part of man's desire. To quote Charlotte from volume 10:

... And that city that fell into the ground by way of natural calamity ... ... is said to be sleeping still, just as it was then, in a place untouched by either sunlight or wind ... at the bottom of this hole.

So we know it's in their fantasies somewhere!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #135 on: June 25, 2009, 09:40:17 PM »
Turning into a castle/city doesn't seem very likely to me, though I won't say that one won't appear, surely a mystical kingdom is a part of man's desire.

Well it wouldn't necessarily be him transforming into the castle/city. The light could just fade and there it would be.

To quote Charlotte from volume 10: [...] So we know it's in their fantasies somewhere!

Gaiseric's old capital wasn't called Falconia though, nor was it necessarily a "mystical" city. :slan: But yeah, there's at least a basis for it.

Offline skullnights_pants

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #136 on: June 25, 2009, 11:42:53 PM »
i am wondering what place the apostles have now that the world is now full of beasts and stuff

Offline DetriusXii

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #137 on: June 25, 2009, 11:50:47 PM »
I just don't see many routes for them to defend their selves. Yeah the apostles, but there's not enough of them to really deal with all the trolls, let alone a larger number of monsters that could rival apostles in strength. 

Plus, an apostle's existence was brought about by them making a selfish choice.  I don't think many apostles would choose to group up to take down the dragon without Griffith leading them into action.  They're selfish creatures that seek their own desires.  That dragon looks like it can kill many apostles and their desires.  And many more if it's a fire breathing dragon.

Anyways, I have a question about Puck.  How was he able to enter the physical world and interact with humans while the dragons, the trolls, the hill giants, and the unicorns remained invisible to the physical world?  What allowed the fortune teller, Guts and co., and others to see elves while the bigger monsters were still walled off from Guts and co.'s mind?

Offline Badass mode ash

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #138 on: June 26, 2009, 02:25:47 AM »
At last my old speculation will come to plan. Ganishka transforms into a giant brain. The first set of the God Hand forms the left hand. The new one the right hand. And then the Idea will come out as the heart the reveal his ultimate plan : It only wanted a body!! :idea: Just in case, I'm not serious at all

Edit: Off topic but since we saw an homage to Bosch in this episode, can anyone tell me what artist did the painting that was inspired for volume 3 with all the weird stairs? I can't remember and I know I've seen it.

Have you ever heard the concept of eternal boy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puer_Aeternus There is nothing more pure or cruel than a child, such a being would enough to be the cause of all of humanities suffering.

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #139 on: June 26, 2009, 02:40:56 AM »
I'm not really sure Miura will take it in that direction personally. That's not to say he WON'T, but I think it would be rather pessimistic if the people of Midland and beyond were nearly forced to become quasi-apostles -- monsters -- just to defend themselves. It would make their ultimate redemption later in the story rather unlikely.

I mean, these blind white sheep aren't evil. They're just trying to survive in a mad world. I don't think Miura would put them in a situation where they absolutely had to turn into monsters.

Not to mention they'd be sacrificing those who are most important to them, those whom they are trying to protect, so it would sort of defeat the purpose unless everyone turned against each other.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Judas Priestly

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #140 on: June 26, 2009, 03:59:02 AM »
Have you ever heard the concept of eternal boy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puer_Aeternus There is nothing more pure or cruel than a child, such a being would enough to be the cause of all of humanities suffering.

Certainly an interesting theory.
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Offline Badass mode ash

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #141 on: June 26, 2009, 04:18:03 AM »
Certainly an interesting theory.

If the idea of evil is just a heart, than if you will thinking of what Rei became in the first evangelion movie, the idea that the purpose behind the god hand being to do something similar isn't far fetched.

Offline Bekul

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #142 on: June 26, 2009, 04:23:43 AM »
If the idea of evil is just a heart, than if you will thinking of what Rei became in the first evangelion movie, the idea that the purpose behind the god hand being to do something similar isn't far fetched.

Similar to what? What did 'Rei' do?

Offline Judas Priestly

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #143 on: June 26, 2009, 04:40:22 AM »
If the idea of evil is just a heart, than if you will thinking of what Rei became in the first evangelion movie, the idea that the purpose behind the god hand being to do something similar isn't far fetched.

I always assumed that only "heart" of the IoE was revealed to the reader and that it was part of a much larger being.  But who really knows but Miura?

Sorry, never was into Evangelion.  Although, finding God or being near God is a common storyline.  I remember the story of Xenogears where the main villain, Krelian, was once a good man, but lost his faith in God after his beloved Sophia died and vowed that he would create God in order to get her back.  He committed atrocities against humanity in order to accomplish this and in the end he finally became one with God, became an angel with a mission of restitution.  Not saying that Griffith will take this route, but perhaps violence may not be answer to ending the horror in Berserk.  The dragonslayer is merely a material thing, but emotions and words can transcend beyond the material.  
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #144 on: June 26, 2009, 05:29:17 AM »
Not to mention they'd be sacrificing those who are most important to them, those whom they are trying to protect, so it would sort of defeat the purpose unless everyone turned against each other.
Huh? There'd be no sacrificing. I'm saying the apostles may turn willing humans into quasi-apostles, ala Mozgus, the Goat Heretic, Rosine's guardians etc.

If the idea of evil is just a heart, than if you will thinking of what Rei became in the first evangelion movie, the idea that the purpose behind the god hand being to do something similar isn't far fetched.
Well, the Idea of Evil isn't just a heart. From Ep 83: "What you are seeing is a part of me. My core" And please god do not bring up Evangelion in comparison to Berserk in any way. Please.
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Offline Danat

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #145 on: June 26, 2009, 01:53:17 PM »
Quote
turn willing humans into quasi-apostles, ala Mozgus, the Goat Heretic, Rosine's guardians etc.
hmm
Mozgus and Goat were transformed by that beherit-man, and I assumed that only he can do that because he is himself a beherit.
But considering Rosine's guardians... maybe ;)
though the transformation was way different (non-instant and via cocoon) and it seems they became 'brainless' and liked to kill each-other while playing, etc. So I guess no guarantee then that the one willing to become a "quasi-apostle" will still do what he intended to do once he will change into apostle.

Offline fuxberg

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #146 on: June 26, 2009, 03:24:47 PM »
Mozgus and his aides didn't kill each other.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #147 on: June 26, 2009, 03:32:16 PM »
Mozgus and his aides didn't kill each other.
He's referring to Rosine's quasi-apostles. Please read posts more carefully before you reply.

And no, Mozgus and his disciples weren't unique or anything because the Beherit Apostle was shaped like a Beherit ...  :schierke: Although it is true that each apostle has exhibited a different method for creating their quasi-apostles.

Still, none of this is relevant to the discussion here. The question isn't IF apostles can create minions. The question is WILL they make minions of the humans around them right now.
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Offline fuxberg

Re: Episode 306
« Reply #148 on: June 26, 2009, 04:30:21 PM »
He's referring to Rosine's quasi-apostles. Please read posts more carefully before you reply.

And no, Mozgus and his disciples weren't unique or anything because the Beherit Apostle was shaped like a Beherit ...  :schierke: Although it is true that each apostle has exhibited a different method for creating their quasi-apostles.

Still, none of this is relevant to the discussion here. The question isn't IF apostles can create minions. The question is WILL they make minions of the humans around them right now.

Sorry I just skimmed the post.
I'm sure they will make willing humans into quasi-apostles, since humans will be easy prey for these new predators they'll be begging for power or protection from their new best friends the apostles.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 306
« Reply #149 on: June 26, 2009, 05:41:56 PM »
Plus, an apostle's existence was brought about by them making a selfish choice.  I don't think many apostles would choose to group up to take down the dragon without Griffith leading them into action.  They're selfish creatures that seek their own desires.  That dragon looks like it can kill many apostles and their desires.  And many more if it's a fire breathing dragon.

If they get to defend humans from spiritual creatures, no doubt they'll gain something from it. It could as simple as people having to pay a tribute, not unlike the situation with the Snake Baron in volume 1.

Anyways, I have a question about Puck.  How was he able to enter the physical world and interact with humans while the dragons, the trolls, the hill giants, and the unicorns remained invisible to the physical world?  What allowed the fortune teller, Guts and co., and others to see elves while the bigger monsters were still walled off from Guts and co.'s mind?

Well, elves are apparently the spiritual creatures that lingered the longest in the corporeal world, even though most of them had already disappeared until recently. We don't have any more precise details on the matter.

Have you ever heard the concept of eternal boy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puer_Aeternus There is nothing more pure or cruel than a child, such a being would enough to be the cause of all of humanities suffering.

But the Idea of Evil isn't a child.

Mozgus and Goat were transformed by that beherit-man, and I assumed that only he can do that because he is himself a beherit.
But considering Rosine's guardians... maybe ;)

There's no "maybe", it's definitely possible. Don't you remember Zondark? He was the first pseudo-apostle we saw in the series.

though the transformation was way different (non-instant and via cocoon) and it seems they became 'brainless' and liked to kill each-other while playing, etc.

Walter meant the guardians (adult, dangerous insects), not just the kids that paraded as elves. And they weren't really brainless either, just... well, childish. They were kids, after all.

So I guess no guarantee then that the one willing to become a "quasi-apostle" will still do what he intended to do once he will change into apostle.

Apostles usually keep a form of control over those they transform. The Count had total control over Zondark, and so did Rochine with her minions. The guardians of her domain had actually been transformed against their will and she had complete control over them (same with the kids, most likely).