Author Topic: Could Void really be...  (Read 14765 times)

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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2009, 02:26:12 PM »
I wonder what he looks like if that helmet were to come off  :SK:

Maybe it's been Schnoz all along! :schnoz:

Offline 01010111

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2009, 05:40:25 PM »
Quote
I wonder what he looks like if that helmet were to come off
I have some light to shed on the question. I was able to get a sneak peek at an upcoming volume that is currently unavailable to most people. It had a lot about the Skull Knight, including this excerpt*:

Blacksmith: My friend, I warn you, do not place this helmet upon your head. For if you do, you will never be able to remove it.
SK: Holy crap! Will it take hold of my soul and devour my flesh, until eventually my physical body will remain no longer?!
Blacksmith: No...I really just made it too small. It's way too small for your head. I tried it on earlier and I had to spend 4 hours and 3 tubs of Crisco just to pry it off.


*totally a lie.

Offline slan69

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2009, 09:07:40 AM »
Maybe it's been Schnoz all along! :schnoz:

Hahah if only that would make for the most shocking thing to happen in Berserk :troll:
Quote -

Love, hate, pain, pleasure, life, death. Everything is there… This is human... This is demonic!

~Slan~

Offline skullnights_pants

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2009, 01:03:48 AM »
turn it into a sci fi, SK is Guts future self

Offline Oburi

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2009, 02:13:02 AM »
turn it into a sci fi, SK is Guts future self

Heh heh, A friend of mine brought that up recently, as a serious idea. I had to violently disprove him, though it was tough since SK can cut open space "and possibly time", adds my friend.

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2009, 06:02:40 AM »
Despite all the hints at Gaiseric throughout the series I always thought it would be cool if SK turned out to instead be Griffith from the future, and that somewhere down the line, things didn't work out so great for him as femto, and now he was back, trying to change the future repent for his misdeeds and perhaps find seek restitution for the wicked things he had done to the hawks.

Of course nothing in the story ever remotely hinted that this was the case. But given the interview with Miura where he said IIRC berserk was going to have a happy ending, this was the only thing I could come up with at the time that would possibly create a surprise happy ending where even Griffith could be forgiven?

Anyways now that SK tried to attack Femto with the Beherit sword, this theory is even less likely than its original infinitesimally small likelihood. Just saying..

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2009, 08:10:09 AM »
turn it into a sci fi, SK is Guts future self

Unfortunately this isn't the first time people have speculated about this.

Heh heh, A friend of mine brought that up recently, as a serious idea. I had to violently disprove him, though it was tough since SK can cut open space "and possibly time", adds my friend.

How about the fact SK is completely different from Guts (personality, fighting style) and has lived for a thousand years before Guts was born? If SK is Guts from the future, why isn't his armor shaped after the Beast of Darkness? There's just no weight to that theory. It was amusing 10 years ago but nowadays it's just :schierke: inducing.

Despite all the hints at Gaiseric throughout the series I always thought it would be cool if SK turned out to instead be Griffith from the future, and that somewhere down the line, things didn't work out so great for him as femto, and now he was back, trying to change the future repent for his misdeeds and perhaps find seek restitution for the wicked things he had done to the hawks.

Hahaha I really, really don't think this is the case.

Of course nothing in the story ever remotely hinted that this was the case. But given the interview with Miura where he said IIRC berserk was going to have a happy ending

He just said that the ending wouldn't be pessimistic. It definitely doesn't mean Griffith won't die. Hell, it doesn't even mean Guts or Casca won't die. And that interview was 15 years ago anyway.

Offline Doc

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2009, 12:02:25 PM »
The recurring theory appears to be Gaiseric = SK, Void = Imprisoned sage. I don't think I need to divulge why I believe Gaiseric is SK, but with Void his appearance is very distinctive. For one, we all know a sage is a wiseman. Well, look at the size of Void's brainage. There's also the fact he appears as the de facto head of the God Hand, and controls the branding of sacrifices. It is also said that Gaiseric had the sage tortured: Void has his eyes sewn shut and his mouth peeled open, perhaps reflecting the tribulations of his former life.

As posted earlier, the only snag is the timeline. However, Miura could easily handwave that and say the legend was obscured and really happened roughly 850 years ago.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2009, 01:02:37 PM »
For one, we all know a sage is a wiseman.

Well the two words are synonyms, so... yeah. Here we commonly use "wise man", by the way.

Well, look at the size of Void's brainage. There's also the fact he appears as the de facto head of the God Hand, and controls the branding of sacrifices. It is also said that Gaiseric had the sage tortured: Void has his eyes sewn shut and his mouth peeled open, perhaps reflecting the tribulations of his former life.

What about his extra fingers though? Those definitely aren't the result of torture. Speaking of which, Femto didn't keep any trace of the torture Griffith went through. Got his tongue back and all.

As posted earlier, the only snag is the timeline. However, Miura could easily handwave that and say the legend was obscured and really happened roughly 850 years ago.

There are several problems with this whole deal (which has, as you must have guessed, been extensively discussed in past threads), and the timeline issue isn't so simple I think. Anyway, like you said, Miura could easily make sense of it all by shining more light on the issue, which I don't doubt he will do at some point.

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2009, 02:39:17 PM »
When you look at Void's God Hand form it doesn't exactly look like it has any aspects that would convince you he was a great warlord.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Doc

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2009, 03:42:12 PM »
What about his extra fingers though? Those definitely aren't the result of torture. Speaking of which, Femto didn't keep any trace of the torture Griffith went through. Got his tongue back and all.

Two good points, and you know I can only answer with more questions.  :ganishka: For what it's worth, perhaps Void's transformation was slightly different, if he was indeed the first God Hand. Pure hypothesis, of course.

Anyway, like you said, Miura could easily make sense of it all by shining more light on the issue, which I don't doubt he will do at some point.

I sure hope so! It's one of my most anticipated parts of BERSERK.

Offline Walter

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2009, 07:47:59 PM »
For what it's worth, perhaps Void's transformation was slightly different, if he was indeed the first God Hand. Pure hypothesis, of course.
Pretty ridiculous sounding if you think it through, though. So, you're saying that Void's transformation may have been unique -- that he could give himself massively long arms, a cool, evil-looking cape and a giant exposed brain, but COULDN'T for some strange reason change the composition of his face?

 :idea: "I'm sorry Brainy, since this is the first time Ive done this, we couldn't fix your face."

 :void: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

I sure hope so! It's one of my most anticipated parts of BERSERK.
Me too, but I don't expect it anytime soon. I think the mystery of 1,000 years ago won't be revealed until close to the end. Just a hunch I've had for several years. But, maybe now that the other shoe has dropped in the world, SK will be more willing to shed some light on these enigmatic mysteries.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Doc

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2009, 09:09:41 PM »
Pretty ridiculous sounding if you think it through, though. So, you're saying that Void's transformation may have been unique -- that he could give himself massively long arms, a cool, evil-looking cape and a giant exposed brain, but COULDN'T for some strange reason change the composition of his face?

All depends on who and how Void was transformed. There's been talk of 'angels' who helped destroy Gaiseric, so perhaps they transformed Void in a way dissimilar to the rest of the God Hand -- once Void assumed command. Just an idea.

:idea: "I'm sorry Brainy, since this is the first time Ive done this, we couldn't fix your face."

 :void: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

At least he can't look in the mirror, right?  :void:

Offline Henry Spencer

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2009, 09:43:31 PM »
I think it goes without saying that Void is the brains of the outfit. :carcus:

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2009, 10:03:26 PM »
I think it goes without saying that Void is the brains of the outfit. :carcus:
Yeah, and his eyes are sew weird looking.  :ganishka:

Offline Judas Priestly

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2009, 10:46:35 PM »
Two good points, and you know I can only answer with more questions.  :ganishka: For what it's worth, perhaps Void's transformation was slightly different, if he was indeed the first God Hand. Pure hypothesis, of course.


I don't think that Void was the first GH.  If a GH can be reborn every 1000 years, then there had to be a rebirth prior to Void becoming a GH.  Also there is the possibility that Void did exist as a GH before the time of Gaiseric, but for circumstances unknown, a new member of the GH never came to be.   
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2009, 07:46:29 AM »
All depends on who and how Void was transformed. There's been talk of 'angels' who helped destroy Gaiseric, so perhaps they transformed Void in a way dissimilar to the rest of the God Hand -- once Void assumed command. Just an idea.

The tale doesn't say of the "angels" that they "helped" destroy Gaiseric, but that they destroyed his capital city (not helping anyone but being the main players). And please keep in mind it's just a tale and that it shouldn't be taken at face value.

Anyway, the problem with what you're saying here is that it's completely groundless. Sure, maybe Void joined the God Hand through a unique process, unlike that of Femto. Maybe each member goes through his own specific process. But we don't know about that and nothing hints at it in the story. And it still wouldn't necessarily explain his physical appearance.

The more likely explanation for it in my opinion is that he chose this appearance to represent himself for a reason. A man who has cast away his ties to the physical world (represented by his damaged eyes, mouth, nose and ears) in his dedication to more intellectual and spiritual matters, for example. Befitting of a wise man, isn't it? And it's not incompatible with having been mutilated either.

If a GH can be reborn every 1000 years, then there had to be a rebirth prior to Void becoming a GH.

A member of the God Hand can be incarnated only once in a thousand years. But this statement in itself isn't a proof that it must have happened before.

Also there is the possibility that Void did exist as a GH before the time of Gaiseric, but for circumstances unknown, a new member of the GH never came to be.

One of my half-serious speculations from the year 2001: Gaiseric was chosen to become part of the God Hand, but he refused! :badbone:

:ganishka:

Offline Doc

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2009, 10:23:39 AM »
The tale doesn't say of the "angels" that they "helped" destroy Gaiseric, but that they destroyed his capital city (not helping anyone but being the main players). And please keep in mind it's just a tale and that it shouldn't be taken at face value.

Doesn't it say 'God' sent the angels?

Anyway, the problem with what you're saying here is that it's completely groundless. Sure, maybe Void joined the God Hand through a unique process, unlike that of Femto. Maybe each member goes through his own specific process. But we don't know about that and nothing hints at it in the story. And it still wouldn't necessarily explain his physical appearance.

I did say it was just an idea. But I was also thinking along your lines, that his physical appearance was immaterial due to his spiritual enlightenment. Perhaps he also leaves his scars as a reminder of what happened all those years ago.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2009, 10:38:04 AM »
Doesn't it say 'God' sent the angels?

Yes. But it has no bearing on what I said.

Offline Doc

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2009, 04:29:09 PM »
Yes. But it has no bearing on what I said.

You said they never helped anyone, but it clearly says they were serving God. That's like saying the God Hand don't fulfil causality on behalf of the IoE.

Offline Walter

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2009, 04:35:22 PM »
Doc, saying the angels HELPED destroy the empire implies that they weren't the only ones there wrecking shit up, and that's not what the text says. That's what Aaz was taking a problem with. Sure, the God Hand are agents of the Idea of Evil. But it's not as if the big bleeding heart was down there smashing columns over. The angels didn't HELP destroy the empire. According to legend they did it themselves.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2009, 04:38:48 PM »
You said they never helped anyone, but it clearly says they were serving God.

Don't be obtuse. The angels didn't "help destroy Gaiseric". Nor did God destroy the capital city with the help of angels. He sent angels to destroy it. So, the angels alone destroyed the capital city, and weren't "helping" in its destruction. If you mean that they were following an order while doing so, then say it with those precise words. But that's not what you meant originally anyway.

Offline Doc

Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2009, 04:53:35 PM »
So the God Hand did not help the IoE appoint Griffith as their new brother? It's the same relationship. They are in service to the higher power, therefore they are helping it by appointing Apostles/destroying Gaiseric. I think you're trying to be pedantic when there's really no need.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2009, 04:58:36 PM »
It's the same relationship.

I wouldn't say that, no.

I think you're trying to be pedantic when there's really no need.

Well what you said in the first place (that they helped destroy Gaiseric himself) was wrong anyway. Then you nitpicked on my precision that as far as the tale goes, they did the entirety of the destroying and weren't just helping with it. So I'd say you are the one who's needlessly defensive here.

Besides, you didn't say that you meant them to be helping the "God" of the tale in your original post, regardless of what you're claiming now. Rather it's Void who you were talking about (and honestly it would make more sense if that's what you meant, as it's not impossible).

Offline Walter

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Re: Could Void really be...
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2009, 04:59:01 PM »
I think you're trying to be pedantic when there's really no need.
It's hardly pedantic. You changed the meaning of your statement midway through the argument.  Here's what you said:

Quote
There's been talk of 'angels' who helped destroy Gaiseric,
This is not the same thing as what you're purporting to say now:
Quote
There's been talk of 'angels' who helped [THE IDEA OF EVIL BY] destroy[ING] Gaiseric,
:femto: :slan: :ubik: