Current Episodes

Walter

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Current Episodes Thread

Ueda is getting on my nerves. His taunting of Musashi, about whether he'll go down the dark or light path, just came across as naive to me and the readers. We already know what path he's on, and idle ghost speculation isn't enough foreshadowing to be effective. Consider this ... my first formal Inoue critique. :beast:

I'm glad Matahachi fought the urge to run away, like he's done his whole life, and stick around. Maybe at the end of this, he'll come away a better man. I think this could also be the turning point for him, when he truly joins the monastery to become a monk. Of course, knowing him, probably not =).
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

Walter said:
Ueda is getting on my nerves. His taunting of Musashi, about whether he'll go down the dark or light path, just came across as naive to me and the readers. We already know what path he's on, and idle ghost speculation isn't enough foreshadowing to be effective. Consider this ... my first formal Inoue critique. :beast:

I couldn't disagree more, for one, this isn't your first critique (remember volume 7? =), and secondly, I think you've dismissed this without giving it the benefit of the doubt.

Ueda wasn't just taunting Musashi, or at all since Musashi didn't seem to see or hear him, and he's actually been very genuine since his reappearance, proving more objective as he hangs around. More than we are anyway; obviously, he doesn't see Musashi as we the reader does, but that's the point. He gives us a perspective into Musashi's struggle as a swordsman that even Takuan can't because he can relate to Musashi as a swordsman that went down in the spiral himself, observe Musashi first hand even when he's journeying alone, and sense the depth of his feelings like others can't.

Also, he similarly represents Musashi's detractors, who aren't necessarily wrong about him at this point. What people think of Musashi was an important theme in the original book, and one that also runs through Vagabond, emerging even more lately. I also don't think we really know where Musashi is at ourselves, it's been a cycle of epiphanies and setbacks, and he's disappointed and regressed before. If Musashi can convince and win over even Ueda, he'll have gone a long way towards achieving enlightenment. So, I appreciate Ueda keeping an eye on him and hearing what he thinks. In any case, I wouldn't poo poo it just yet.

Walter said:
I'm glad Matahachi fought the urge to run away, like he's done his whole life, and stick around. Maybe at the end of this, he'll come away a better man. I think this could also be the turning point for him, when he truly joins the monastery to become a monk. Of course, knowing him, probably not =).

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of him joining the monks, this is actually where the water is most murky for me. It's hard for me to imagine Matahatchi not bumbling on his next adventure, just as it's hard to imagine Musashi staying put. I really hope he sticks around though and maybe he and his mother can both make progress. I think it would be a feat if he could convince his mother that his problems are his own fault, if he's in fact accepted that for himself.
 

Walter

Administrator
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Current Episodes Thread

I will admit some personal bias against Ueda having tainted my rationale here. But that's all part of the experience of being a reader. I'm susceptible to feeling negative toward a particular character, just as you are toward Matahachi.

I understand that Ueda is representing the perspective of those caught in the wake of Musashi's spiral. And Ueda is special of course, because he did not fade away like the others, but had the strong will to cling on just to haunt/investigate Musashi. I also understand the literary benefits of having an alternate, critical perspective of our protagonist. However, when you cut down to the chase, I can't see how his ultimate revelation on Musashi's nature will be unique for the readers. I fail to see the payoff, and I admit it is premature.

But as I began the post by saying, I will question every step of Ueda's development because I simply don't like that a defeated loser is peering over Musashi's shoulder criticizing his every move. It's genuinely unsettling to me -- especially for someone who's fallen from grace as much as Ueda has. I find his air of superiority nauseating given his current circumstance. When Ueda finally realizes for himself that Musashi is on the right path and gives up his futile haunt, maybe then I'll have enough respect for him to applaud this effort. But for now, all I can do is frown in distaste on these scenes.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

Out before the preview sketches, new Berserk and Vagabond in the same day, nice.
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A full Matahatchi episode. Despite a bout of being her feisty old self, granny's not doing so good, after some interaction with doctors and the monk, Matahatchi takes her somewhere, literally carrying her on his back, presumably back to Miyamoto village, or somewhere she can get help (the Yagyu? Edo? =). On the way he starts to reflect on his journey and becomes understandably upset by the end, but his mother's presence centers him. All in all, a sweet episode, especially for Matay (did I just refer to him by endearing shorthand? =), particularly the last couple of pages.



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Inoue said:
MANNERI化the repertoire of catering and box lunches may be wrong with the home office of all cartoons
Unknown.


2009.6.10
Inoue Takehiko
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Current Episodes Thread

宮本 グリフィス said:
Out before the preview sketches, new Berserk and Vagabond in the same day, nice.
mushi.gif
Two in the same day, it sure it's very pleasing. :guts:

宮本 グリフィス said:
A full Matahatchi episode. Despite a bout of being her feisty old self, granny's not doing so good, after some interaction with doctors and the monk, Matahatchi takes her somewhere, literally carrying her on his back, presumably back to Miyamoto village, or somewhere she can get help (the Yagyu? Edo? =). On the way he starts to reflect on his journey and becomes understandably upset by the end, but his mother's presence centers him. All in all, a sweet episode, especially for Matay (did I just refer to him by endearing shorthand? =), particularly the last couple of pages.

Yeah, quite the attack she put on that doctor(presumably after talking bad about about her or Matahachi). Good contemplation from Matahachi, I would say he's thinking about what has he really done since Sekigahara and parting from Musashi. What did he accomplished? He just lived off Oko,pretended to be Kojiro and in the process got uncle Gon killed by running away. Oh Matahachi....I hope this and the love of his mother get you back in the right path. I am only speculating he might do some of his lying to get his mother some help and lodging.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

Updated the top post with sketches and Inoue's note.

Also, turns out Matahatchi is taking his mother back to Miyamoto village.

Th3Branded0ne said:
Good contemplation from Matahachi, I would say he's thinking about what has he really done since Sekigahara and parting from Musashi. What did he accomplished? He just lived off Oko,pretended to be Kojiro and in the process got uncle Gon killed by running away.

Basically right on on. He does acknowledge himself as a master of women and drink though. =)

Th3Branded0ne said:
Oh Matahachi....I hope this and the love of his mother get you back in the right path. I am only speculating he might do some of his lying to get his mother some help and lodging.

I hope not, especially with his most recent desire to purge himself of his weakness and lies. I'm actually looking forward to more between these two on their journey.
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Current Episodes Thread



I liked that part where is thinking if Musashi didn't exist, or was born in the same village. Then goes on a rampage that all the thoughts are about Musashi(Takezou), and where is he at. Like his mother said, "Try to be strong".Just like a caterpillar, try to look scary or poisonous eventhough you know you are not.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

I thought her words were more that he's not a strong person, but he can be a person who tries to be strong, or perhaps acts strong.
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Current Episodes Thread

宮本 グリフィス said:
I thought her words were more that he's not a strong person, but he can be a person who tries to be strong, or perhaps acts strong.

Yeah, I forgot to include what she said first. I only typed the "try to be strong" and such. So, just "try to be strong" at least better than claiming you are strong.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

Or as Yoda would say, there is no try. :guts:

Anyway, I wonder if Inoue's promises of wrapping things up soon aren't coming to fruition right under our noses. I want to feel like things are still in the middle, and we should be seeing tons more of Matahatchi, but on the other hand, this could be it! He could just take his mom home and that's his journey basically, other than showing up again for the finale. Same with Kojiro, Inoue could easily shuffle these guys off stage from here so he can focus on Musashi and getting him where he needs to go, before jumping in time and bringing everyone back together for the final duel (which is still supposed to be about 8 years away chronologically, yeesh). Anyway, that's not my hope, I want plenty more of the big four, Musashi, Kojiro, Otsu and Matahatchi, but Inoue has things set up in such a way that he could call it a wrap on many of these characters.



http://www.itplanning.co.jp/vaga.html

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This manuscript was fight time and flight to Kumamoto.
The flight was the work finished before the final one.
I have a way to empty.
When you get to Haneda, but was still wearing sandals at work. .


2009.6.16
Inoue Takehiko
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Current Episodes Thread

From those sketches, you guys think it might be Matahachi as a baby. Maybe some story her mother tells him in this journey back to Miyamoto village.

Th3Branded0ne said:
from those sketches, you guys think it might be Matahachi as a baby. Maybe some story her mother tells him in this journey back to Miyamoto village.

OK, I got the part about Matahachi being a baby. But to find out that Osugi is not his real mother :isidro:
 

Walter

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Current Episodes Thread

宮本 グリフィス said:
Anyway, I wonder if Inoue's promises of wrapping things up soon aren't coming to fruition right under our noses. I want to feel like things are still in the middle, and we should be seeing tons more of Matahatchi, but on the other hand, this could be it!
Nah, I think we're nearing the apex of Inoue's vision for Vagabond. I've always had a feeling Inoue's intention with the series was to set each of its main characters on the course to their personal enlightenment, and then close when it's implied they're at the cusp of embracing that light. For Matahachi, I think his end result is to acknowledge his faults and find a path to make atonement for his wayward days, for Musashi, it's finding and mastering the Way, independent of the spiral. That's my visions for these characters anyway.

He could just take his mom home and that's his journey basically, other than showing up again for the finale. Same with Kojiro, Inoue could easily shuffle these guys off stage from here so he can focus on Musashi and getting him where he needs to go, before jumping in time and bringing everyone back together for the final duel (which is still supposed to be about 8 years away chronologically, yeesh)
I bet the final pages of Vagabond will be the duel just beginning, or Musashi arriving on boat, and he and Kojiro sharing a glance, then THE END. I don't think Inoue will draw out the duel of the millennium, but instead build up the readers' understanding of these characters so the action isn't even necessary to be shown.


As for 272 specifically, I really dug it. Mata's chance to shine! Some notes I made as I read it (yes I take notes while reading some series):
Pg 7: finally, Mata gets some of that good advice that Inoue's doled out to Musashi but been so stingy with Mata!

Pg 10: Mata struggling with his basest temptations even in his most humanitarian effort. Poor guy ... He's fascinating because he's so weak, he can't muscle his way to goodness like Mushi.

Pg 14: I think this shows one of Matahachi's deep misunderstandings of Musashi, even though they were such good friends. He truly doesnt understand Musashi's motives. He's not trying to make a name for himself anymore. For Musashi, this is a personal journey of discovery.

Pg 17-18: We see Mata's Sloggo!
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

Th3Branded0ne said:
OK, I got the part about Matahachi being a baby.

Yeah, you were right on with that.

Th3Branded0ne said:
But to find out that Osugi is not his real mother :isidro:

Yeah, though that was foreshadowed earlier in Matahatchi's memories with people basically saying as much to his face.
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Current Episodes Thread



It was good to see Osugi in a younger version(same old same :ganishka:). At least now Matahachi is admitting to have told lies and being weak. It's like AA for Matahachi, he had to admit what he was in order to advance towards a better him.
 

Walter

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Current Episodes Thread

Well, this certainly explains Matahachi's lack of commitment to his family, and even his rebel streak to a certain extent. He's never truly been a Hon'iden, but he was bent and molded to those false ancestors' standards by his mother all his life. This revelation sheds more light on the flashback to Matahachi's talk with Uncle Gon in vol 12, just before he and Takezo set out for war an fortune.

Gon never had much faith in Matahachi's professed strength, probably because all along he knew he wasn't from very fine stock. Or at least, he was more of a commoner than the ancestors his mother always striving him to become like.

Poor Matahachi :sad:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

Walter said:
Nah, I think we're nearing the apex of Inoue's vision for Vagabond. I've always had a feeling Inoue's intention with the series was to set each of its main characters on the course to their personal enlightenment, and then close when it's implied they're at the cusp of embracing that light. For Matahachi, I think his end result is to acknowledge his faults and find a path to make atonement for his wayward days, for Musashi, it's finding and mastering the Way, independent of the spiral. That's my visions for these characters anyway.

Yeah, but I want more, particularly from Musashi's end. I want to see him learn to "use his powers for good," see him cut down 70, but in order to save 700. I'd be perfectly fine with everyone else being relatively pushed to the back burner.

Walter said:
I bet the final pages of Vagabond will be the duel just beginning, or Musashi arriving on boat, and he and Kojiro sharing a glance, then THE END.

God I hope you're wrong. :ganishka:

Walter said:
I don't think Inoue will draw out the duel of the millennium, but instead build up the readers' understanding of these characters so the action isn't even necessary to be shown.

Yeah, I'm not expecting a clumsy bloodpath considering where they are at this point and will be by then, but I want a major psychological standoff/payoff on the order of Inshun, Seijuro, and Den combined. No pressure, Inoue. =)

Walter said:
As for 272 specifically, I really dug it. Mata's chance to shine! Some notes I made as I read it (yes I take notes while reading some series):

Haha, awesome notes, I'd like to see more of them. Somehow, I missed or am not remembering Mata's Sloggo! I'll have to go check that. Also, I too was very proud of him in this episode, he completely won me over... the bastard.



Th3Branded0ne said:
It was good to see Osugi in a younger version(same old same :ganishka:). At least now Matahachi is admitting to have told lies and being weak. It's like AA for Matahachi, he had to admit what he was in order to advance towards a better him.

Well, it's about time, and I like the AA analogy. :griffnotevil:

Walter said:
Well, this certainly explains Matahachi's lack of commitment to his family, and even his rebel streak to a certain extent. He's never truly been a Hon'iden, but he was bent and molded to those false ancestors' standards by his mother all his life. This revelation sheds more light on the flashback to Matahachi's talk with Uncle Gon in vol 12, just before he and Takezo set out for war an fortune.

Gon never had much faith in Matahachi's professed strength, probably because all along he knew he wasn't from very fine stock. Or at least, he was more of a commoner than the ancestors his mother always striving him to become like.

Poor Matahachi :sad:

I'm not so sure about all that, while Osugi certainly isn't his mother, I think he is the son of Hon'iden, only born to his mistress. It certainly makes more sense than for her to arbitrarily claim a random child to carry on the Hon'iden name. She was just a smart and strong enough woman to recognize the situation and to take the initiative.

Anyway, another beautiful Mata episode, two in a row now, and I don't even want it to switch back to Musashi. I'm even a bit uneasy with things getting so depressing near that waterfall, I hope they move on from there soon...
 

Walter

Administrator
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Current Episodes Thread

Ohhh, i didn't consider that the woman could be Hon'iden's mistress. But are we sure? Seems to me that Osugi says she can't continue the Hon'iden line since her husband is dead, and that's why she begs for the baby.

It could indeed be a mistress, but that's really not the impression I get from the chapter. Then again, I've been wrong in the past. I think I still owe you a flip-flop or a shoe because of my false prediction in ep 181, don't I Griff?

As for that waterfall scene, I thought this was going to be where granny had her final moments. With her seeing visions of Uncle Gon, I thought that was the end for her.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

Walter said:
Ohhh, i didn't consider that the woman could be Hon'iden's mistress.

Yeah, it's not totally clear, but the Matahatchi's real mother does comment that it's a shame his father died before he was old enough to memorize his face, and since it's Hon'iden's funeral she's saying this at... anyway, no wonder Matahatchi's such a loser, he'd forgotten the face of his father before he could even remember it. :SK:

Walter said:
But are we sure? Seems to me that Osugi says she can't continue the Hon'iden line since her husband is dead, and that's why she begs for the baby.

Well, SHE couldn't. =)

Walter said:
It could indeed be a mistress, but that's really not the impression I get from the chapter. Then again, I've been wrong in the past. I think I still owe you a flip-flop or a shoe because of my false prediction in ep 181, don't I Griff?

Speaking of ep 181, in Vagabond 182 (volume 21) there's a brief scene where Matahatchi dreams/remembers being told he's the son of a mistress, which is actually what planted this thought in my head in the first place.

Walter said:
As for that waterfall scene, I thought this was going to be where granny had her final moments. With her seeing visions of Uncle Gon, I thought that was the end for her.

Very well could be, but I hope not, especially with her finally learning the truth about Gon, Otsu, Musashi, and Matahatchi himself. I want to see her reaction to those revelations... other than dying. I'd like to see her bounce back and maybe have a transformation akin to the novel, but I'll understand if this is the end.



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〆 long time and I'm going to get less sleep and just before cutting, or the energy to drain out from the adrenaline, day 5-6 and about to eat food.


2009.6.24
Inoue Takehiko



Another pre-release!

Well, I was right to be worried about that waterfall. They come very close to going over, but Matachi falls back and flings his mother off his back and it's hard to say at this point what's real and what's more metaphorical. It may all be very literal with some imaginary visions of what could have been thrown in, such as returning to the village to see Gon, Takezo, Otsu and the rest all doing fine, or Osugi could already have passed and the entire conversation is between Matahatchi and his expectation of his mother. We'll see soon enough, but it doesn't look like she makes it past episode's end. Here's hoping she still bounces back though...

Something I found interesting from the last episode too, was the way everyone in the village was afraid of Osugi, she was considered the strongest person in the village, and was also somewhat isolated for it... ironically, kind of like someone else we know from Miyamoto. =)
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

Very touching episode, and it occurred to me that this was basically like their "flashback" moment before the end, but now I hope it's only Osugi's end (assuming she doesn't jump up again in the next episode =). Mata finally has context, and I think it's interesting that it's basically the same conclusion we had already come to in the Matahatchi thread:

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9926.0

He can become a person Musashi can't be.



Walter and I have a lot of conversations about Vagabond outside the Inn, actually, a majority of our real Vagabond talking is done that way. Well, that doesn't do anything to stimulate this section, and this sort of discussion is exactly what the Inn is for, so when it happened again today, we decided to do something about it!

Feel free to continue the conversation or take it any direction you like.


Griffith: I felt like Musashi, "I like this old man."

Walter: hahaha
i hope he gets to see him again.
somehow I dont think he'll get there, or will veer off course for something else

Griffith: Yeah, or he'll be... too late.
I mean, you could say his death was signaled by the flowers changing in volume... 11?
Or maybe that was his new lease on life.
I'd rather think that.
Technically, it's not even that time yet, is it?
Cause it flashed forward to the next spring.

Walter: i dont think he's dead yet.
i think its interesting he chose to seek him out now though.
still dont quite have my head around that.

Griffith: He need to talk to the other Invincible guy in the world. =)
He understands strength now.
Before Musashi couldn't relate to him, now he's the only one that can.
Yagyu is the only one that can relate to him, that is.

Walter: when did we learn that In'ei died? I forgot. Did we?

Griffith: No.
No word on either.

Walter: k

Griffith: But we see neither after the 70 man slaying.
Just disciples.

Walter: damn it we should be having this conversation in the Inn!

Griffith: Yeah, this is what happens.

Walter: damn it

Griffith: Fuck it, I'm making a thread for it.

Walter: hahaha

Griffith: Conversations on Vagabond. =)
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Current Episodes Thread



Well, this thread at least will include the few who are in the Inn a bit more. So, in regards to Mushi reaching Yagyu in time or after his demise. I think even if he hasn't been shown, he's still around and might have a last chat with Mushashi. Mushi: So I killed 70 men and got really hurt to understand what strong is. How many did you have to kill? Yagyu: Zero. Musashi: ................
I hope I see at least one more time "Enter my circle and I kick your ass" moment.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Current Episodes Thread

Th3Branded0ne said:
How many did you have to kill? Yagyu: Zero. Musashi: ................
I lol'd :ganishka:

That's how I see their conversation happening too. I feel that though Musashi believes he's progressed far, he'll still see himself at the foot of a great hill when he meets Sekishusai again. Hey, maybe Musashi could live in that dojo built for Kami'izumu ? :carcus:

"This is where the invincible sleep."
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Current Episodes Thread

HOLY SHIT!

I'm retitling this episode, "#275 - To Walter, Thanks for Everything, Takehiko Inoue"

JUST GET IT, GET IT NOW!



Walter: holy shit.
inoue read my mind, or vice versa
just yesterday it occurred to me that itd be great if Musashi ran into Ito on the way
And future Matahachi!

Griffith: Yup!

Walter: I love Vagabond =)

Griffith: Yeah, damn Inoue, what a great cliffhanger too
I've been waiting for this as well.

Walter: knowing Ito, it will come down to a duel =)
he'll want to see this Tiger's strength

Griffith: Maybe he'll postpone it.
Wounded Tiger. =)

Walter: hehe yeah
either way, im giddy with excitement
annoying because as soon as i finished reading the ep, my boss came over and wanted to have a quick meeting, but i couldnt keep this stupid grin off my face

Griffith: lol

Walter: btw, this convo should go in the conversation thread

Griffith: Oh, I had already thought so.

Walter: so.... the matahachi section.

Griffith: I'm just wonder what the deal with that is, yeah.
Are we done with him?

Walter: does he see a young Takezo? I couldn't tell.

Griffith: Or an illegitimate child. =)
I knew it was Ito on that first page.

Walter: oh yeah

Griffith: Had to be.

Walter: ditto
a straight homage to vol 17

Griffith: And Musashi's father in 28 =)
Even Mushi looks shocked at first glance

Walter: oh yeah hahaha

Griffith: "Who is THAT!?"

Walter: sounds stupid, but i wonder if theres any significance to his left sleeve being ripped off
or if its just to show his MANLINESS

Griffith: I think he's just rougher than ever.
Probably the same clothes from 4 years ago.
Ripped and resewn, unrecognizable. =)
BTW, I think Musashi's face on the bottom of 19 is a prime candidate to be changed in the volume.

Walter: wha? why

Griffith: Not that it needs to be, but that I think Inoue might.
I don't know, make Mushi seem like less of a dork in that shot. =)

Walter: brb

Griffith: I still don't know why he changed Den and Mata in those other shots.
It just has a... different look we're not used to from Musashi, and I'm wondering if that isn't for a reason.

Walter: i think he's just surprised.
theyve met before, and all.
the only thing that struck me about that shot was that at first I couldnt tell if Musashi's head scar had opened up, or if it was just wet hair.

Griffith: Just hair.
You can see the stitches underneath.

Walter: yep

Griffith: I think Musashi might not have sensed him, that's why he's shocked.
Also, I doubt he remembers meeting him.
He didn't remember Kojiro.

Walter: yeah, which always seemed strange to me...

Griffith: Maybe that flashback we've been waiting for will come now.
I'm sure Ito will remember him.
"You're that beast!" =)

Walter: i wonder how Ito will rate Musashi =)
10,000,000!

Griffith: 70, 000 points =)

Walter: 9,000!
ahahahha

Griffith: Well, i'm sure Ito's own rating has gone up in his mind
 
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