Author Topic: What Are You Playing?  (Read 505212 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3125 on: February 01, 2019, 09:40:52 AM »
Being dense, it took me nearly until the lab to realize what Capcom did: They took the original RE2’s A scenario and made that Claire’s main story, and they took the original’s B scenario and made that Leon’s main story. Once I realized that it all started to make sense. I think they, intentionally or not, made Claire’s A scenario the “real” story line with Leon’s scenario there just to explain why the lab’s self-destruct mechanism activates.

I haven't done Claire's A story yet, but I was telling Griff yesterday that I suspected this was what they did. I think part of the logic behind it is that Ada's rocket launcher drop makes more sense for Leon than for Claire, and Birkin as an antagonist works better with Sherry in the picture. I'll have to play through Claire A / Leon B to give a verdict though.

All in all, they should have just made her story THE story, and used Leon for a complementary post-completion bonus game that shows his actions during the game’s events as well as explaining behind-the-scenes events like they did in RE4 with Ada’s Separate Ways.

Yeah this is also something I thought to myself. I'm fine with switching things up and making Claire's story the main thing, but then they should have probably gone all the way. Because the game's presented to you like the original: Leon first, Claire second. That's just misleading, and considering how few people are likely to finish the game twice, it's a shame to present them with a disjointed, confusing story.

Offline The Beast of Darkness

Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3126 on: February 01, 2019, 05:08:55 PM »
I've needed a little pause after finishing the 2 scenarios in a row last weekend. I just started Claire's A story today and stopped at the orphanage.
Still haven't finished that damn "The 4th Survivor" mode... got killed near the end (thanks to the two Ivy zombies and the G-monster).

Offline Griffith

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3127 on: February 02, 2019, 08:23:08 AM »
Very interesting, Skeleton, now all that weird mixed-up shit in Leon's game DOES make sense, and I have a lot more to say on the game later that I'll cannibalize from my talks with Aaz, but... I have a question, my original plan was to do Leon A/Claire B on standard and then Claire A/Leon B on hardcore, but I just started Claire's B scenario and really wasn't digging how they're presenting/executing it; so, would I be better off and get more out of it just doing her A scenario next and revisiting the B's (which REALLY seem like a B version now) later if I still care?

If I had known all this going in I also would have done Claire/Leon to start, but if they were going to basically hardwire the A/B scenarios to the characters I think it indeed should have been Leon/Claire because that's how it's emphasized in the original as well as here, (Leon! Leon! Leon!), despite setting the scenarios the opposite way. Maybe I'll feel differently when I see how it all works together in the big picture (like Aaz said, Birkin with Sherry is better, Ada helping Leon makes sense, it just goes against my previous associations where Leon's #1 and Mr. X is almost as tied to Claire's scenario as Irons).

All in all though, knowing this improves my estimation of the game since it explains why Leon's story felt a little lighter and more B influenced than I expected and more of that "A" material is presumably still in there for me to experience as Claire. That makes me happy. Ironically, the thing that made RE2 really unique was this truly interchangeable A/B system (the "ZAPPING" system! ZAP ZAP!), which they never replicated in later games where they'd just dictate the order chronologically, and still didn't even do it for a remake of the game that originally did it... but they pretended to? Weird. Maybe this is why it took so long; I'd like to think they spent years trying to innovate this gimmick and finally just gave up and said, "Fuck it, just do what we always do and then put an optional, truncated 'B' version of the other character's story at the end. Problem solved." RE2 can't be recreated! :guts:


Update: So I was curious if Capcom ever made Claire A/Leon B officially, or even loosely, canon in Code Veronica or something, and it turns out they essentially did in RE6 with a specific plot point branching off from only Claire's A game, so that sort of explains that.

Anyway, after saving a bit into Claire B I backed out and started Claire A Hardcore and am to the point where I can reach the S.T.A.R.S office. Not much of an appreciable difference thus far (was hoping for more streets, and stores =), to start. Hardcore makes it a different game though, Less like RE2: The Arcade Game, and not an unfair one either. Now I'm really on my toes and survival horroring (already learned from some mistakes that cost me some life, a knife and ammo, but no deaths or reloads so far). With a couple tweaks this could and really should have been standard. Maybe just a little more health for you, one more bite's worth, and less for zombies (it sucks shooting a limb half a dozen times or more and it still hangs on =), but then on Standard you take TOO many hits anyway so somewhere in the middle and it would have been perfect and they could have mixed up hardcore a bit more (maybe more and different enemy locations). I imagine it's going to start diverging more from Leon's scenario just before I enter the passage, but we'll see.

OH, another big change, I had a few bucks in my PS Store wallet from that Left Behind return and I sprung for the classic music and sound pack and HOLY SHIT combined with Hardcore and Ink Ribbons  you can dial up the nostalgia to 11! It's implemented very well too, I was half expecting some cheesy footsteps and zombie sounds (ok, hoping =), but they're very judicious with the classic score and sound design as if they meant for it to be that way all along, the quality is excellent and not an anachronistic retro setting by any means. All the right music in all the right rooms makes it a joy to explore and those damn orchestral booms, crashes and random rattling sounds! It's actually probably scarier AND more pleasurable (it's certainly better than the forgettable music in the vanilla game). So, kudos to Capcom on that even though it probably should have just come with the game.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 05:30:44 PM by Griffith »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3128 on: February 02, 2019, 12:18:43 PM »
I've needed a little pause after finishing the 2 scenarios in a row last weekend. I just started Claire's A story today and stopped at the orphanage.
Still haven't finished that damn "The 4th Survivor" mode... got killed near the end (thanks to the two Ivy zombies and the G-monster).

Yeah I'm kind of on a little break myself, while at the same time considering to try and get the Frugalist achievement (no healing) on my Claire A run. I think I only used 2 herbs on the Claire B scenario and I certainly could have managed otherwise, so... Still, trying to pace myself so I don't just get fed up too quickly.

Ironically, the thing that made RE2 really unique was this truly interchangeable A/B system (the "ZAPPING" system! ZAP ZAP!), which they never replicated in later games where they'd just dictate the order chronologically, and still didn't even do it for a remake of the game that originally did it... but they pretended to? Weird.

Yeah, I have to say, one of the most disappointing aspects of this game is how half-assed the "zapping" is. The original game wasn't perfect by any means, but they at least made it clear you were going after someone else. The environment had changed, things had evolved, there was a new threat, etc. Vastly superior to what they've done here, which is to simply reuse (and barely mix up) 95% of the game, occasionally switch G for Tyrant or vice versa in the boss fights, and change some cutscenes.

Anyway, after saving a bit into Claire B I backed out and started Claire A Hardcore and am to the point where I can reach the S.T.A.R.S office. Not much of an appreciable difference thus far (was hoping for more streets, and stores =), to start. Hardcore makes it a different game though, Less like RE2: The Arcade Game, and not an unfair one either.

Told you guys, Hardcore is the only way to play. Otherwise what's the point? The entire concept of the game hinges on having to be methodical and careful in how you progress, which is just not compatible with auto saves. (Yeah I know I'm just a grumpy old man :ganishka:).

OH, another big change, I had a few bucks in my PS Store wallet from that Left Behind return and I sprung for the classic music and sound pack and HOLY SHIT combined with Hardcore and Ink Ribbons  you can dial up the nostalgia to 11! It's implemented very well too, I was half expecting some cheesy footsteps and zombie sounds (ok, hoping =), but they're very judicious with the classic score and sound design as if they meant for it to be that way all along, the quality is excellent and not an anachronistic retro setting by any means. All the right music in all the right moves makes it a joy to explore and those damn orchestral booms, crashes and random rattling sounds! It's actually probably scarier AND more pleasurable (it's certainly better than the forgettable music in the vanilla game). So, kudos to Capcom on that even though it probably should have just come with the game.

Hahaha yeah I actually bought the "deluxe edition" just for that and it's awesome. That OST hasn't aged at all, it's still amazing. I'm also going to play my next run using classic costumes! :guts:

Offline Cyrus Jong

Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3129 on: February 03, 2019, 03:24:36 AM »
Poor Claire! Given second billing in a remake of a game where she should by all rights be the main character. All this after getting kicked to the curb in favor of both her co-star and her brother. Hell, even the silly and long-since-rendered-noncanonical novelization written way back when gave her no respect, relegating her to the B scenario...and STILL giving what few Birkin encounters she should have otherwise had to Leon! Wonder if a bitter Elza Walker cursed her for stealing her role? :iva:

snip

I'm not going to create another quote pyramid, so I'll just say this:

First impressions are important. I've quit many a thing for having a lousy or baffling first ten minutes, so yes, I am going to criticize the first couple hours of The Witcher 2. If I hadn't played the first game when I started TW2, I would have shut it off quickly, or otherwise just shut my brain off and enjoyed just killing things. It throws too much at you in such a short amount of time, and while you can indeed read up the glossary to get up to date, having to do that so soon in the campaign and so frequently would have left me with the impression that this is going to be an issue going on for the rest of the game.

And even if I was willing to slog through all that, I'm still not going to care about a lot of these people no matter how much I'm told to. I mentioned Foltest and Triss earlier specifically because they both suffer this in particular. Foltest may only be alive for the extent of the prologue, but his death is still treated very dramatically, with serious gravitas and even tragedy. Which works if you played the first game (and even better if you read the first story as well, if not the whole series) and got to know him; it can be a gut-punch to see him die, and it also lets you know early on that no one in this franchise is safe, which makes Triss' capture at the halfway point, and the moral quandary you get thrown into in the third act, all the more effective, since it means she has a very real chance of dying too, and maybe you're just one wrong decision away from having that happen. But if you're coming into TW2 fresh, then it all comes off as melodramatic. It's not an issue that much of the rest of the cast has, but it's still very significant; one character is tied into those first impressions that I explained were so important earlier, and the other is the source for the biggest emotional stake in the game's plot. If the characters care more about what's happening in the story than I do, then the story is a failure as far as I'm concerned.

You tell me that I should focus on how the complete experiences fare, and you know what? You're right. That's precisely why I was able to enjoy TW2; because played TW1 first and got the most "complete" version of the experience at the time. But if I played TW2 by itself, it would not have left an impression on me at all, assuming I ever completed it at all. It's not a complete experience, it's the middle chapter of a trilogy, and it feels like one.

Offline Griffith

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3130 on: February 03, 2019, 04:03:57 AM »
Yeah I'm kind of on a little break myself, while at the same time considering to try and get the Frugalist achievement (no healing) on my Claire A run.

All I care about is getting the unbreakable knife (turns out I was actively ignoring what leads to it :schierke:). That thing is like an invitation to attempt an S+ Hardcore run. :carcus:

Quote
Yeah, I have to say, one of the most disappointing aspects of this game is how half-assed the "zapping" is. The original game wasn't perfect by any means, but they at least made it clear you were going after someone else. The environment had changed, things had evolved, there was a new threat, etc. Vastly superior to what they've done here, which is to simply reuse (and barely mix up) 95% of the game, occasionally switch G for Tyrant or vice versa in the boss fights, and change some cutscenes.

Yeah, I don't know why this was so hard (they did it fine 20 years ago =) and muddled. The explanations I read were presented as more ideological decisions, that they wanted to give Claire and Leon their own unique A scenarios and not make it so redundant, but I don't think that was mutually exclusive with a decent B scenario, particularly the "zapping" sections. How hard is it just make it so you each draw from the same pool of enemies or items (maybe if you kill a Licker as one, in the 2nd they just fight a zombie, or vice veras)? It's such a half measure that Leon's A is basically the B scenario but still shares too much with Claire's A to just play them back to back as such (unless you do the tacked on "2nd run", a half measure to the half measure). It would have probably been better just to go all the way and make their scenarios completely unique; different routes to and through the station from the start, distinctive meetings with Marvin, each is always on the same side of the chain door, etc, and ways to affect the second scenario in the first (basically whatever you do to the environment stays; just leave the doors unlocked, add more monsters, IDK get creative). BYW, they also should have been in contact one more time before the end tokeep that thread alive, ideally when searching for their secondary characters because it would have been a good dramatic moment to share between them and explains why they can't reunite just yet. Anyway, maybe I'll come around to the Bs when I finish them if they closer to what I'm saying than I think and add some cool bosses, etc.

Quote
Told you guys, Hardcore is the only way to play. Otherwise what's the point? The entire concept of the game hinges on having to be methodical and careful in how you progress, which is just not compatible with auto saves. (Yeah I know I'm just a grumpy old man :ganishka:).

I'm fucking up pretty bad too! Wasting tons of ammo and health, playing perfect for like an hour and then saving after I mangle some dumb zombie room and saving with less to show for it because I don't want to lose the progress. I might not be saving enough. I'm almost out of the station and have like 6 ribbons but only like two usable healing items (lots of blue and red herbs though =).

Quote
Hahaha yeah I actually bought the "deluxe edition" just for that and it's awesome. That OST hasn't aged at all, it's still amazing. I'm also going to play my next run using classic costumes! :guts:

You made me realize I unlocked Claire's costume when I finished Leon, so I'm loading that up when I resume my hardcore retro Claire run.

Poor Claire! Given second billing in a remake of a game where she should by all rights be the main character. All this after getting kicked to the curb in favor of both her co-star and her brother. Hell, even the silly and long-since-rendered-noncanonical novelization written way back when gave her no respect, relegating her to the B scenario...and STILL giving what few Birkin encounters she should have otherwise had to Leon! Wonder if a bitter Elza Walker cursed her for stealing her role? :iva:

Well, if it's any consolation she's A #1 now and even then she was the one that went to the sequel. Also, Leon's the best RE character period, and in 2 he brought a different energy where he was capable and heroic yet appropriately in over his head, whereas Claire was a little more fantastical and irrationally confident for a college student (that super REDFIELD DNA =), so I'm fine with him being the face of RE2 and basically the franchise. :carcus:
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 03:56:06 PM by Griffith »

Offline Bleac

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3131 on: February 03, 2019, 06:51:57 AM »
I've quit many a thing for having a lousy or baffling first ten minutes, so yes, I am going to criticize the first couple hours of The Witcher 2.

You seem to have a very different approach to playing video games in general. I'm not gonna say there is a right or wrong way to play something, but I don't think you would be giving any game a fair chance by ditching it in 10 minutes if it didn't instantly captivate you. If you don't like reading bulks of text and taking your time to dissect a more complex game like that, it might simply not be your slice of cake. That is perfectly fine with me, but I'm not sure it's a fair thing to assume the game's at fault if you weren't interested enough.

First impressions are important.

I very much agree that first impressions are important, not in the same sense unfortunately. To me, The Witcher 2 as a game, not as a first couple of hours (which you seem to have found confusing and dissonant enough to potentially compromise the entire experience for a new player) offers a strong first impression for the series.

Maybe it's just me, but I was perfectly able to enjoy and understand, for the biggest part, the most important things about the story without having touched the first title, through the various exposition methods found within. I didn't immediately understand everything that was going on in the beginning obviously, but you shouldn't expect to be invested in characters and instantly catch on to everything that is going on right off the bat, even in standalone titles this is a whole process, even films do it. The Witcher 2 simply has somewhat of an overwhelming start; knowing who Foltest is beforehand bears negligible impact. As a matter of fact, things in this game tend to generally get more and more clear the closer you get to the end, that's just how the story was designed, so from where I'm standing you're looking at it completely wrong.

Overall, I think the huge boost in quality over the first game and the charm and anticipation it builds for the Witcher 3 make it a sweet point to get into the mess that is this series. Seems like you're not sharing the sentiment no matter how many reasons I offer, so let's just accept that we're not on the same wavelength on this one. I could honestly talk about the Witcher all day but I wouldn't wanna become redundant.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3132 on: February 03, 2019, 10:33:23 AM »
All I care about is getting the unbreakable knife (turns out I was actively ignoring what leads to it :schierke:). That thing is like an invitation to attempt an S+ Hardcore run. :carcus:

Haha, there's an S+ now? I guess it stands for what the old S used to? If so, the unbreakable knife probably won't help all that much. :magni:

It would have probably been better just to go all the way and make their scenarios completely unique; different routes to and through the station from the start

Yeah, I think I would have liked that better.

I'm fucking up pretty bad too! Wasting tons of ammo and health, playing perfect for like an hour and they saving after I mangle some dumb zombie room and saving with less to show for it because I don't want to use the progress. I might not be saving enough. I'm almost out of the station and have like 6 ribbons but only like two usable healing items (lots of blue and red herbs though =).

Sounds like a mess. :ganishka:

Well, if it's any consolation she's A #1 now and even then she was the one that went to the sequel. Also, Leon's the best RE character period, and in 2 he brought a different energy where he was capable and heroic yet appropriately in over his head, whereas Claire was a little more fantastical and irrationally confident for a college student (that super REDFIELD DNA =), so I'm fine with him being the face of RE2 and basically the franchise. :carcus:

Pfff, I liked Leon in RE2 back in the day, but neither he nor Claire are the real S.T.A.R.S. of the franchise! (see what I did there)

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3133 on: February 03, 2019, 02:10:34 PM »
unbreakable knife

Hmmm a knife only run seems more possible now but I haven't played the game yet so I cant be sure.

Also I'm pretty sure RE2 sold well enough to justify a remake of RE3 but that's worry me because the next big bad is nemesis :magni:
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3134 on: February 03, 2019, 03:29:55 PM »
Hmmm a knife only run seems more possible now but I haven't played the game yet so I cant be sure.

Yeah, they must have planned for it.

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3135 on: February 03, 2019, 07:16:21 PM »
Yeah, they must have planned for it.
The developers after implementing the unbreakable knife
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY2k8_sSTsE
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Offline Griffith

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3136 on: February 04, 2019, 03:14:17 AM »
Haha, there's an S+ now? I guess it stands for what the old S used to? If so, the unbreakable knife probably won't help all that much. :magni:

Yeah, you really just need to run and gun... perfectly.

Yeah, I think I would have liked that better.

I'll make my final verdict when I complete the Bs, I mean I guess it could be okay as long as they don't do anymore "editing," which was ridiculous (just add a half hour of zombie fighting in the street beforehand). It really feels like they picked the most half measured approach of modifying their scenarios to be "2nd" thoughm instead of just designing them to work concurrently no matter what; which actually better achieves their goal of eliminating redundancy without sacrificing anything or creating these lesser versions of their campaigns (which is actually even MORE redundant scenarios to play). Maybe I'll come around to them as a more is more thing, "See the version of their campaigns where Claire of Leon are late!" I am a sucker for this shit. =)

Sounds like a mess. :ganishka:

Yeah, it was worse than you think too, like I managed to run up a box behind a zombie, like over him, but couldn't pick up the item I needed to grab (large gear), and wasted so much time I could have escaped trying and then I got bit anyway. Fucking Hell. Was no better when I had to go through the 3 zombies in the library to use the jack and move the shelves with Mr. X on my ass. I think I took him on three laps around the police station, wasted two grenades (literally used one by mistake instead slashing with the knife =) and like 100 rounds of SMG spray on those fuckers because as soon as I engaged them he'd come right to me, even when I tried sneaking around. Ugh, anyway, screw it, it's done, I still got plenty of ammo and more health than I did before. To the Orphanage!

Pfff, I liked Leon in RE2 back in the day, but neither he nor Claire are the real S.T.A.R.S. of the franchise! (see what I did there)

Of course, you're right, how could I forget the franchise's real S.T.A.R player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GyOYaDHquE&feature=youtu.be&t=218

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3137 on: February 04, 2019, 04:39:22 AM »

Of course, you're right, how could I forget the franchise's real S.T.A.R player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GyOYaDHquE&feature=youtu.be&t=218
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uvUL28Skt6E
However let's go further in time and see how much things improved oh wait
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J58VPpPrmQU
bang

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3138 on: February 04, 2019, 10:29:47 AM »
Of course, you're right, how could I forget the franchise's real S.T.A.R player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GyOYaDHquE&feature=youtu.be&t=218

Goddamnit. :sad:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: What Are You Playing?
« Reply #3139 on: February 13, 2019, 04:40:48 PM »
Snow and ice have been keeping me from work until today, so I finished Secret of Mana and Castlevania: Rondo of Blood between Friday and today.

I'm so glad I decided to give Secret of Mana another chance on the SNES Classic. Playing it on my iPhone a year or two ago just didn't do it for me, but I had a blast playing it on the big screen. The story wasn't much, but the gameplay was amazing, as were the graphics and sound. I can see why so many people loved this game as kids and still feel such a strong nostalgia towards it.

Rondo of Blood was awesome, too. I'd heard over the years that it was the best "classic" Castlevania game, and it didn't disappoint. I still think Super Castlevania IV is my favorite so far, but Rondo of Blood is a very close second. I can't wait to play its more famous sequel, Symphony of the Night.

Right now, I'm playing the last NES Mega Man game, Mega Man 6. So far so good. It's a Mega Man game, after all. :serpico: