Author Topic: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships  (Read 11162 times)

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Offline Serpico

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2009, 03:30:54 PM »
Guts and Griffith hands down. By far most of the depth of the story is the interactions of these two. Even the extremely brief scene where Griffith looks off toward their boat as Guts loses consciousness had me on edge.

Guts and (sane) Casca, also ranks high for me.

Serpico and Farnese was an awesome addition and filled a bit of the gap for me while the above are in a bit of a stalemate as far as progressing.

Also I am looking forward to everyone's reaction to a sane Casca, particularly with Guts again, and Farnese.

Could go on, there are so many but those are why I read the story.

Offline Chiron

Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2009, 10:38:50 PM »
Guts and Casca, because she hasn't forgiven him and he's in love with who she was. I can't wait to see what he'll do if she doesn't come back. And I wonder if after she comes back if he can stand the fact that she picked him because she couldn't have Griffith, forever in his shadow.

Griffith and Guts, because if you aren't at least fascinated by the complexities of their relationship you shouldn't reading Berserk.

Serpico and Farnese because I wonder if he'll ever give in to being more than a servant or if he'll ever tell the truth.

Griffith and Casca, He saves her life, gives her a better life, takes it away by getting himself in trouble and when she's about to find peace with Guts Griffith comes back confuses her and then rapes her.... and they are still "friends" A relationship equally as deep and conflicting as the one between Guts and Griffith.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2009, 10:48:01 PM »
And I wonder if after she comes back if he can stand the fact that she picked him because she couldn't have Griffith, forever in his shadow.

You haven't actually paid much attention to the story, have you?

Griffith and Casca, He saves her life, gives her a better life, takes it away by getting himself in trouble and when she's about to find peace with Guts Griffith comes back confuses her and then rapes her.... and they are still "friends" A relationship equally as deep and conflicting as the one between Guts and Griffith.

How are they "still friends" exactly? She's not even herself anymore.

Offline Chiron

Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2009, 10:52:05 PM »
You haven't actually paid much attention to the story, have you?

How are they "still friends" exactly? She's not even herself anymore.

Well that's a little cold don't you think? I'm by no means new to Berserk, been following it for 5 years now. Just because I don't see the relationships the exact same way doesn't mean I didn't pay attention. As far as Griffth/Casca, I dunno if you saw the warm smile he gave her when she ran past Guts to give him a big hug. The question isn't if they are cool now but if she'll not feel the same way as Guts when she does get her senses back, if she gets them back.
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Offline slan69

Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2009, 10:56:32 PM »
Griffith and Guts, because if you aren't at least fascinated by the complexities of their relationship you shouldn't reading Berserk.

Why, just because people aren't fascinated by their relationship they shouldn't be reading Berserk? You know not everyone cares about Griff & Guts relationship so what they shouldn't be reading Berserk then. :schierke:
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Love, hate, pain, pleasure, life, death. Everything is there… This is human... This is demonic!

~Slan~

Offline Chiron

Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2009, 11:03:22 PM »
Wow I didn't think that one would be controversial at all. Berserk is Guts story, at the heart of it, and with Griffith being a major plot devices multiple times, just kinda makes sense. If their relationship didn't matter and you weren't interested in it then you wouldn't be interested in major archs of the story.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2009, 11:09:36 PM »
Well that's a little cold don't you think? I'm by no means new to Berserk, been following it for 5 years now.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but that's what I honestly thought when I read your comment.

As far as Griffth/Casca, I dunno if you saw the warm smile he gave her when she ran past Guts to give him a big hug.

Hahaha, you mean when she saw her son, right? Because that's what she did. I think you may want to re-read that part of the story.

Wow I didn't think that one would be controversial at all.

It's not. Guts and Griffith's relationship is obviously very important in the story.

Offline Chiron

Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2009, 11:13:51 PM »
It may be her son's body but I'm not so sure she can see that. It appeared she saw Griffith. And if she blocked out the whole Eclipse then the only feelings she has about Griffith left are fond ones. She really felt connected to him and without the negative feelings its not so far fetched that she was happy to see him and not, as you say, her son. At least that's how I've always seen it.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2009, 11:17:01 PM »
It may be her son's body but I'm not so sure she can see that. It appeared she saw Griffith. And if she blocked out the whole Eclipse then the only feelings she has about Griffith left are fond ones. She really felt connected to him and without the negative feelings its not so far fetched that she was happy to see him and not, as you say, her son. At least that's how I've always seen it.

Like I said, you really should re-read that part of the story. What you're saying here has no basis in the story. She hasn't just blocked out what happened during the Occultation ceremony. In fact, what happened at the time is the only thing we ever see her remembering. On the other hand, she remembers no one, cannot speak, and acts like a little child. The only person she's ever reacted to was her son. And she reacted to Griffith in volume 21 and 22 just like she always did to her son before. Not to mention that it's heavily implied in the panels that it's all about her son anyway.

Offline Chiron

Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2009, 11:24:46 PM »
I just reread that a week ago and that's not the interpretation I got at all. And since she doesnt talk isn' it equally hard to determine who she is responding to? With her child like state I was under the impression she has been action 100% on impulse. Why would it be implausible she acts on the impulse to see him?
Max Fischer: What do you call getting a handjob from Mrs. Calloway in the back of her Jaguar?
Magnus Buchan: A f*cking lie.

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2009, 11:27:33 PM »
Yes, if I may, I also have always considered her reaction to be towards Griffith vs. towards her son.

Something for me to go back and think about.

But I wholeheartedly disagree with this:

Guts and Casca, because she hasn't forgiven him and he's in love with who she was. I can't wait to see what he'll do if she doesn't come back. And I wonder if after she comes back if he can stand the fact that she picked him because she couldn't have Griffith, forever in his shadow.

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2009, 11:28:19 PM »
I just reread that a week ago and that's not the interpretation I got at all. And since she doesnt talk isn' it equally hard to determine who she is responding to? With her child like state I was under the impression she has been action 100% on impulse. Why would it be implausible she acts on the impulse to see him?
Well, it's a lot more likely that she's acting on the impulse of a mother, since that's instinctual. Also, the only time we see her remembering anything from the past is when she freaks out and sees the rape again in her mind, she wouldn't exactly be running to hug the guy who caused her so much trauma, especially if that's the only memory she has. Just look at how she acts towards Guts, he's done so much for her while she was in that state, but that one moment he nearly gave in has caused her to fear him greatly.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2009, 11:32:58 PM »
I just reread that a week ago and that's not the interpretation I got at all. And since she doesnt talk isn' it equally hard to determine who she is responding to? With her child like state I was under the impression she has been action 100% on impulse. Why would it be implausible she acts on the impulse to see him?

She's only ever acted on impulse to see her son so far. In fact she's continuously done it ever since she lost her mind, starting with volume 14. And in volume 22, she didn't just see "Griffith". She felt a presence through her brand, and she recognized that presence, which led her to head out to find him. No different from when he was still his deformed self. Don't you see? It has nothing to do with his physical appearance. She knew who it was before she even saw him. Her son. And vice versa. It's not "Griffith" who protected her. It was her son who acted on impulse to protect his mother (Griffith actually comments on this). Just like the boy reacted when Griffith looked at Guts fighting against Zodd. The kid feels for his parents. And Casca, having lost her mind, feels for him too.

Now what makes that scene even more interesting is that Guts doesn't know that. So to him, it looked like she irrationally went to Griffith. But we have the information Guts is missing and we know what really went down.

Offline Aphasia

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2009, 12:19:46 AM »
This is what I like about berserk.  There are so many interesting character relationships, but I'd have to say one of my favorites is  :schierke::guts: Another great one is Judeau and Casca.  I'm always saddened when I read his last words to Casca. : (

Offline Chiron

Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2009, 12:28:56 AM »
Oooh I love that relationship! I love the way Miura played with the audience with Judeau. He was so easy to love and self sacrificing and used as a means to rip your heart out. Pure art!
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Offline Death May Die

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2009, 02:17:40 AM »
For me its Guts, Casca, and Griffith. Everything is built on it and everything else falls in between. At least when it comes to the big picture. I think right now, in smaller detail, I am very interested in what lies ahead with apostles and humans living together.

Online Walter

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Re: Most Interesting And/Or Best Character Relationships
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2009, 02:18:30 AM »
I've read posts that claim Miura is a pessimistic writer. I don't agree, but what is pessimistic to me is someone who doesn't believe Guts and Casca can be happy together despite the hell they've both been through. This refusal, to me, seems to miss that glint between the lines of Berserk, hinting that there's a ray of light beyond the otherwise mottled gray of the future.

Granted, the story of Berserk and Guts and Casca's history is bittersweet (to say the least). But does anyone honestly believe that Miura is simply stringing out their romantic relationship without vindication? That it's simply a way for him to twist a knife in the collective backs of readers after a 15-year-long separation for two of his major characters? That it'll just end in tears and nothing else?

Seriously ... give Guts a break. The guy has earned some genuine happiness in his life, and his ultimate reunion with Casca is shaping up to be his one real shot. The love of his life, whom he's protected and sought after these past 4 years ... who would deny him that?

Apparently, Chiron would!  :troll:

he's in love with who she was.
That's somewhat of an oversimplification. Sure, he'd like her to be restored. But it's not as if his love for her rests on that potentiality alone. Guts protected her and sought her out long before he knew there could be a remedy. He finds that out in vol 28, but vowed to never lose her again in vol 17. He stayed with her throughout her mental handicap because -- dum, dum, dum-dummmm -- he loves her!   :casca:

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I wonder if after she comes back if he can stand the fact that she picked him because she couldn't have Griffith, forever in his shadow.
I don't think so, but let's run with this one for a just a bit. So, Casca wakes up in Elfhelm, fully restored. Guts sees her, reaches out for his long-lost love -- then realizes ... "Hold on, what am I thinking? I'm just table scraps compared to Griffith, her #1 guy pal who raped her senseless!"

IIIIII just don't know about that. It seems to disregard the past 18 volumes or so of Guts' character development and his relentless dedication to Casca. Besides, don't you think that by now, after more than 4 years since their heart to heart in vol 9, he's likely already come to terms with her former feelings for Griffith?

As for his feelings, he hasn't exactly made them a secret. Most recently, Guts told Roderick how he feels about Casca. And though we weren't privy to his exact words, if you pay attention to Farnese and Schierke's reactions, it's no mystery.

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I just reread that a week ago and that's not the interpretation I got at all. And since she doesnt talk isn' it equally hard to determine who she is responding to? With her child like state I was under the impression she has been action 100% on impulse. Why would it be implausible she acts on the impulse to see him?
I don't need to say much more than Aaz has already said, but I'd also suggest pulling out your copy of Vol 18. There are two separate scenes where Casca's child comes to rescue her from ghosts/possessed bodies. During each scene, she reaches out and yells: "Ahhhh." As if she's able to sense and recognize her son (one of the only things she's shown anything more than passing fascination with). She repeats this in Vol 22 with Griffith, only afterward, Griff turns and leaves after realizing there's more than one heartbeat inside him. The subtext? The child responded to his mother, responding to him.
:femto: :slan: :ubik: