Miura's Classical Japanese Lit. Influences

This is something I've posted on other boards and something that I thought I had posted here long ago. However, upon review of my (tiny) post history I see that I have yet to share this goldmine with you all.
Here goes...


Although set in an incredibly detailed western world, it is my belief that Miura pulled strongly from the classic literature of his own country for a good portion of Berserk. Namely the Golden Age.

Within the most famous chronicle of the Gempei Wars, "Tale of the Heike" (平家物語), is the story of one prominent young samurai who all feel will rise easily to power. This man, Yoshitune, is extremely well-loved by the public and his followers. He is also a highly skilled swordsman and strategist. But contrary to the more burly, robust warriors of his day, Yoshitune was willowy and elegant.
One day he meets up with an inhumanly strong warrior monk, Benkei, and they cross blades. Although having a towering 999 previous victories to his name, the ferocious Benkei is overcome by Yoshitsune's delicate and skillful wielding of the blade. From then on out, Benkei belongs to Yoshitsune and is at his side in every single battle for the remainder of the war.

Sound familiar? It gets better.

Even though Yoshitune and company seem to single-handedly carry their clan to victory, our androgynous hero is unable to fully claim power in the government he helped establish and instead is hunted down by his jealous, untrusting half-brother.

Another great work of literature, the Gikeiki　（義経記) gives an account of Griffith - oops, Yoshitsune - and his attempt at escape from the capital (and certain death) after the war. In his persuit of freedom, with the hope of rebuilding his former glory hardly more prominant than the hope of staying alive, Yoshitsune is completely dependent on Benkei and a handful of loyal soldiers. Afraid to be seen and recognized, Yoshitsune is disguised the entire time as a monk with his face hidden in robes and a Japanese cowl of sorts (I can't remember the word for it, but they look really cool).
The entire journey Benkei is in charge of everything. He takes decisive actions to prevent the group's cover from being blown, and goes so far as to beat his lord Yoshitsune to convince suspicious guards that he is no more than a lowly traveling monk and clearly not the great general Yoshitsune.

Benkei, the once headstrong brawler, has grown beyond mere grit and has risen to the occassion - taking initiative and commanding Yoshitune's former troops and Yoshitsune himself. Meanwhile, Yoshitsune is completely impotent and reduced to a weak shell of former glory.

There really isn't anything about a God Hand or Behelit after that point, so I think Miura just goes from there.

While I appreciate you summarizing this portion of the novel, I think what you've chosen to lay out for us is a bit of an oversimplification of what happens, and it's out of context with everything surrounding it. And that's just from what I've briefly read online. Here's a detailed chapter summary for those interested: http://www.sonic.net/~tabine/heike081003/Heike_mainpage.html

It's certainly not convincing enough to say with any certainty that Miura "pulled strongly" from "Tale of the Heike." One could easily find more that's dissimilar to the Golden Age than is similar to it.

I also think you're unintentionally doing a disservice to Miura to imply that he couldn't have coincidentally crafted a story that bears superficial similarities to a small portion of a classic novel (skilled tactician befriends strong warrior who helps him hide after being outcast). The details of the hiding portion also appear to not a part of "Tale of the Heiki" and are instead in a completely separate work -- a companion novel titled "Yoshitsune."

Heike Monogatari is massive. Why would I bother summarizing portions of it that would be otherwise irrelevant on a board about Berserk? I chose to go with the bits that do seem to run a similar course to the story Miura has created.

In no way am I trying to do Miura a disservice. I am aware that he is a well-read individual, and draws his influences from a good variety of resources and actually takes the time to do research. It is however, completely conceivable to me that this could be a coincidence. Just look at the eerie coincidence of Guts and Goetz, about whom Miura apparently knew nothing.

Walter said:

The details of the hiding portion also appear to not a part of "Tale of the Heiki" and are instead in a completely separate work -- a companion novel titled "Yoshitsune."

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IncorrigibleThief said:

Another great work of literature, the Gikeiki　（義経記) gives an account of Griffith - oops, Yoshitsune - and his attempt at escape from the capital (and certain death) after the war.

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Frankly, I have to agree with Walter that the way you're presenting things here isn't really representative of the actual work(s). I think you're disproportionately emphasizing what you perceive as similarities while ignoring the numerous elements that don't fit the comparison at all (e.g. Yoshitsune's social status and general situation, his position inside his family, his relationship to Go-Shirakawa, his friends and rivals, his objectives and the battles he fought, etc.). In many fundamental ways he is very different from Griffith as a character (even physically, facial hair and all that).

And your comparison itself isn't so good either. Guts didn't hide Griffith from the Midland king or anything like that. He left his army and had to defeat him in order to, an event that precipitated Griffith's downfall. Then he went on his merry way while Casca took care of the troops and led them during these trying times. Guts only came back a year later (by chance) and spontaneously decided to help them save Griffith, after which he planned to leave again. Quite different, and the closer we look at details the more different it becomes (e.g. each character's motives and why they incurred someone's wrath). I also can't help but feel that you're speaking of the Golden Age arc as if it focused on Griffith with Guts as a side character (the way it is for Yoshitsune and Benkei), which isn't the case at all.

Lastly, about Benkei... He's kind of a legendary character (though he only plays a minor role in the Tale of Heike), and his greatest traits are traditionally his honor and loyalty. In that, him and Guts are fundamentally different as well (much to Casca's chagrin during the Golden Age arc).

IncorrigibleThief said:

It is however, completely conceivable to me that this could be a coincidence. Just look at the eerie coincidence of Guts and Goetz, about whom Miura apparently knew nothing.

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I've never found it all that strange myself. The names are kind of similar but it's mostly just a case of someone having historically used a prosthesis, and Goetz wasn't the only one to. It becomes even less surprising when you know that the main character of Miura's previous story, NOA, is a cyborg with an arm-cannon of his own. When he was told by publishers that there were too many Sci-Fi stories on the market, he moved to a different type of setting... But the idea of an arm-cannon stayed.

Facial hair and all that.

Everyone is right, is there is just absolutely too little similarity to suggest these works of literature might have been even the slightest influence, or even be neat little unintentional similarities that would be worth discussing.
I suppose if someone doesn't more or less copy and paste a character from another work of art into their own it doesn't really count as an influence or cool coincidence.

IncorrigibleThief said:

Facial hair and all that.

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Oh come on, you were unironically saying he was elegant (just like Griffith ) as a means of comparison.

IncorrigibleThief said:

I suppose if someone doesn't more or less copy and paste a character from another work of art into their own it doesn't really count as an influence or cool coincidence.

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Aww, don't take it like that. The parallel isn't completely uninteresting (whether it's a coincidence or not), and being a famous Japanese general it's definitely possible that his tale and deeds inspired Miura to some degree (even if subconsciously). I just think you were trying too hard to find more literal similarities here.

Hey now, a beard can still be elegant.

And to be fair, the OP really does come off too harshly - as if Miura read Heike Monogatari and Gikeiki and then suddenly wrote Berserk. Ugh, I really don't have that opinion in regards to Miura's influences and I should've edited that post from my earlier days to better reflect my current ideas. For this I am sorry.