Author Topic: Episode 307  (Read 100390 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #225 on: September 29, 2009, 07:12:16 PM »
True, but regardless, I hope they survive.

Well like I said, I'm not worried.

Wonder where the remaining Kushan will run to and if they will actually reform.

If there are any Kushans left in Midland at all, you mean (other than those Griffith recruited). Assuming some are left, in my opinion it would only be in very small numbers and they would either flee or be massacred (or both).

Seems like that ignorance may be their undoing, following Griffith's lead into the supposed haven they need during these turbulent times.

It's not like the whole situation hasn't been meticulously planned long ago in order to manipulate everyone into doing what a superior power wants, though. Common people are completely helpless to have any meaningful impact on the world at this point, and their total ignorance of not only the God Hand but also how the world works can be both seen as a cause and a consequence for it.

Yeah, it was the former. I just was surprised that Foss seemed to know so much. Especially considering the other story floating around that was told by Charlotte seemed to be far from the real truth, I figured these aristocratic types to mess the stories up.

To know so much? He knows there is/was a legendary city buried under Wyndham. Like Charlotte, Judo and presumably every person with a little historical knowledge or who has sat around many a campfire to hear tales in his or her life. Also, I don't see how what Foss said contradicts what Charlotte said at all.

Then again, Miura may want to leave that for later as a surprise.

Yes. Besides, this episode was the perfect end for the arc, the chapter and this section of the story on Griffith's side. Hell, with some tweaks (Ok, heavy tweaks) it could even be an open ending to the very story itself.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #226 on: September 30, 2009, 04:05:35 PM »
I really enjoyed this EPISODE.  Can't wait for my actual physical copy of it to come in!

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #227 on: September 30, 2009, 04:59:54 PM »
I really enjoyed this EPISODE.  Can't wait for my actual physical copy of it to come in!
Since I've had to correct yours and several other posts in this thread so far, let me repeat what's been reiterated many, many, many times on this forum.

More than in recent memory, the distinction between CHAPTER and EPISODE should now be clear. We are at the end of one CHAPTER, and the beginning of another. The Falconia CHAPTER has ended with EPISODE 307. That CHAPTER contained 72 episodes (236-307). The tentatively titled Elf Island CHAPTER is beginning with 308, along with a new ARC, a designation that thankfully no one ever seems to have a problem with...

So, by calling 307 a chapter, you're essentially saying that it's CHAPTER 307 of the Falconia CHAPTER. Which is wrong, not to mention stupid sounding.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Bekul

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #228 on: September 30, 2009, 06:52:09 PM »
I've skimmed this long thread (enjoyable), but I don't think anyone has yet brought up the possibility that Falconia, as it currently stands, may currently be populated, or at least, not entirely empty. Which of course is mere speculation, but it's speculation I haven't seen brought up yet.

Offline Marik

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #229 on: September 30, 2009, 07:06:43 PM »
I've skimmed this long thread (enjoyable), but I don't think anyone has yet brought up the possibility that Falconia, as it currently stands, may currently be populated, or at least, not entirely empty. Which of course is mere speculation, but it's speculation I haven't seen brought up yet.

I would like to speculate instead on the possibility that Griffith would rearrange the social class system.

Now as now, the laws of the world are replaced by the merging, and we don't know what Griffith plan to do after sittin on the throne.

Furthermore, the city is composed of several different structures, so I wonder who has to live in larger buildings and who have to live in ordinary house.

To me Falconia doesn't seem an ideal city like an heaven where everyone is equal, so I don't know how Griffith will handle this.

It would seem obvious and locigal that he would give massive buildings to the apostles, but I'm not sure about it.

I wonder if the greed of people and nobles will still continue to exists or despite different structures everyone will live better than before.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #230 on: September 30, 2009, 07:09:42 PM »
Since I've had to correct yours and several other posts in this thread so far, let me repeat what's been reiterated many, many, many times on this forum.

More than in recent memory, the distinction between CHAPTER and EPISODE should now be clear. We are at the end of one CHAPTER, and the beginning of another. The Falconia CHAPTER has ended with EPISODE 307. That CHAPTER contained 72 episodes (236-307). The tentatively titled Elf Island CHAPTER is beginning with 308, along with a new ARC, a designation that thankfully no one ever seems to have a problem with...

So, by calling 307 a chapter, you're essentially saying that it's CHAPTER 307 of the Falconia CHAPTER. Which is wrong, not to mention stupid sounding.

Considering the unique juncture we're at between episodes 307 and 308, how do you know he wasn't talking about the actual chapter and corresponding volume release? :guts:

Just kidding, yeah guys, don't make us bite the bullet and make chapter a banned word on SK.net, it probably would be already if not for the aforementioned arc chapters, and I've already thought of a solution to that, so beware! In the meantime, I've made this humorous reminder ala the weekly readers image macro. =)


Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #231 on: October 01, 2009, 01:29:41 AM »
Jesus, Griff, is that from Salute Your Shorts?

Offline Holyvampire21

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #232 on: October 01, 2009, 01:45:45 AM »
Excuse Me if the translation I read was off, But what I'm wondering is, how did they know what the name of his new capital was? I've reread the enitre seires about 10+ times, And don't remember any character saying Falconia. So, does that mean the legendary capital's name was Falconia?

I know That charlotte said, (I did A search, and couldn't Find anything about how people knew what the name of the capital was.) "Apparently the name of the city meant "Land in the middle of nations." So it received the name "Midland."" Was the city's name falconia? and does it mean Land in the middle of nations like she says?

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Jesus, Griff, is that from Salute Your Shorts?
I remember that show, Loved Ug lee. (The guy in the picture, I think that was his name)

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #233 on: October 01, 2009, 01:58:32 AM »
I think you were just thinking about this one too hard. Falconia was named by the Pontiff in this episode, it's probably something he heard in a dream, him being so obsessed with Griffith and Falcon imagery and everything... And no, the only other time Falconia is mentioned is in the chapter/episode title page.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Holyvampire21

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #234 on: October 01, 2009, 02:02:48 AM »
I think you were just thinking about this one too hard. Falconia was named by the Pontiff in this episode, it's probably something he heard in a dream. And no, the only other time Falconia is mentioned is in the chapter/episode title page.
Mayhaps....  :troll: But I was trying to get all my facts straight before posting, the slightest little inconsistency Isn't really welcomed around these parts. even if it's just a poor choice of words, or thinking that people are smart enough to figure out what your getting at.  :ganishka: Was very VERY nervous about posting any speculation.  :magni:

I'll go with the dream Idea, since the name just coming to him is a weird one.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #235 on: October 01, 2009, 02:09:59 AM »
Mayhaps....  :troll: But I was trying to get all my facts straight before posting, the slightest little inconsistency Isn't really welcomed around these parts. even if it's just a poor choice of words, or thinking that people are smart enough to figure out what your getting at.
Trust me, after you've read your 500th post across 10 years about Zodd being Guts father because they both have spiky hair, you'll get a little cranky too  :void:

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I'll go with the dream Idea, since the name just coming to him is a weird one.
Not necessarily. Keep in mind the Pontiff is slightly bonkers, and is severely afflicted with a case of Griffith obsession. He was a sleepy, tired old man until his "rescue" by Mule and Sonia. It's pretty clear he was born and set on stage through Causality to serve this role.

That being the case, it's not difficult to see why such notions would occur to him, in a dream or otherwise.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #236 on: October 01, 2009, 02:42:13 AM »
Jesus, Griff, is that from Salute Your Shorts?

It sure is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNT7uUXekjU :guts:

I'll go with the dream Idea, since the name just coming to him is a weird one.

Not necessarily weird, the Pontiff could have just simply coined the phrase there. Whether he thought or even heard of it before then is anyone's guess, but as presented it could have just been what "came to him" in the moment and so he christened it such.

Offline Holyvampire21

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #237 on: October 01, 2009, 04:16:55 AM »
Trust me, after you've read your 500th post across 10 years about Zodd being Guts father because they both have spiky hair, you'll get a little cranky too  :void:
Not necessarily. Keep in mind the Pontiff is slightly bonkers, and is severely afflicted with a case of Griffith obsession. He was a sleepy, tired old man until his "rescue" by Mule and Sonia. It's pretty clear he was born and set on stage through Causality to serve this role.

That being the case, it's not difficult to see why such notions would occur to him, in a dream or otherwise.
Yes, I'm sure that would get irksome. Just a little Defensive After lurking about for so long. I read 4 or 5 pages of berserk A day as of late, and Have always wanted to have people to share discussions about it, with. But that said, I also know I grasp the story very well, and Would hate to have that come into question. so forgive me as I settle in around here.  :serpico:

Since most of everything and anything is in a sort of dreamlike state, (the kids in the forest of vol 22, as an example) I guess it's not out of bounds for a near death old man to come up with such a name. (I like the name, just not a normal one. if you know what I mean.) And since he is the pontiff, everyone there would accept his christening on the spot.

I will say this, (just to keep things going) I completely expect Rakshas to show up soon. I could be wrong, but from everything we've seen, I think he was there becuase the skull knight was expected to show up.

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #238 on: October 01, 2009, 05:03:34 AM »
Considering the unique juncture we're at between episodes 307 and 308, how do you know he wasn't talking about the actual chapter and corresponding volume release? :guts:

Just kidding, yeah guys, don't make us bite the bullet and make chapter a banned word on SK.net, it probably would be already if not for the aforementioned arc chapters, and I've already thought of a solution to that, so beware! In the meantime, I've made this humorous reminder ala the weekly readers image macro. =)


It's Ug!
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #239 on: October 01, 2009, 05:08:53 AM »
I will say this, (just to keep things going) I completely expect Rakshas to show up soon. I could be wrong, but from everything we've seen, I think he was there becuase the skull knight was expected to show up.

Actually, I wonder about that. There already doesn't seem much room for him to do anything of significance now unless someone makes a move against Griffith, which is unlikely at this point (Who? Daiba, the Bakiraka, even for Skully it just seems futile right now). Anyway, if the next episode does transition to Guts and company, unless it bounces back quickly, we'll probably jump ahead in time when Falconia is a little more settled and it will be completely moot. Perhaps Rakshas appearance was as simple a matter as to show that he was there, and to do so without revealing his Apostle form at the same time as Irvine's, as Miura has obviously purposefully revealed Griffith's major Apostles' transformations one at a time.

Which just makes me even more curious about this reveal now. :rakshas:

It's Ug!

Except in this case it's going to be an "Ugh" whenever someone calls an episode a chapter. :guts:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #240 on: October 01, 2009, 02:32:18 PM »
It sure is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNT7uUXekjU :guts:

Ah, the memories. :void:

Not necessarily weird, the Pontiff could have just simply coined the phrase there. Whether he thought or even heard of it before then is anyone's guess, but as presented it could have just been what "came to him" in the moment and so he christened it such.

That's the way I read it. Just because we've known the chapter's name for several years doesn't mean the name existed in the world of Berserk before the Pontiff coined it.

"Damn you, old man! I was going to call it Femtonia..." :femto:

Offline Deathbringer

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #241 on: October 01, 2009, 04:07:35 PM »
Don't know if this was discussed already but i'll throw it in regardless, did anyone recognized the regilious references that Miura brought with the Ganishka tree?

I can recognize Nordic reference to Yggdrasil and the Bodhi tree where Buddha reached nirvana but what was the last one? Some connection to Christianity?

And what was the point exactly? To make it as if the Ganishka tree fitted in several/every religion of the Berserk universe? Make it as universally enticing as possible, no?

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #242 on: October 01, 2009, 04:11:43 PM »
Don't know if this was discussed already but i'll throw it in regardless, did anyone recognized the regilious references that Miura brought with the Ganishka tree?
We discussed Yggdrasil as a possibility on three occasions in the ep 306 thread. And Aaz mentioned that several religions and cultures have some kind of a spirit tree of sorts.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #243 on: October 01, 2009, 06:29:25 PM »
I've skimmed this long thread (enjoyable), but I don't think anyone has yet brought up the possibility that Falconia, as it currently stands, may currently be populated, or at least, not entirely empty.

That's probably because it's not very likely. What people would it be populated with?

I would like to speculate instead on the possibility that Griffith would rearrange the social class system.

Now as now, the laws of the world are replaced by the merging, and we don't know what Griffith plan to do after sittin on the throne.

Institute a democracy then immediately abdicate, of course! :schierke:

I wonder if the greed of people and nobles will still continue to exists or despite different structures everyone will live better than before.

I agree, it will be interesting to see. I can't imagine that everyone will be completely pleased.

I've reread the enitre seires about 10+ times, And don't remember any character saying Falconia.

The pontiff is the first character to utter it. Like Griff and Walter said, he might have come up with it on the spot or heard it in a prophetic dream. Or it might be written in some holy text. Doesn't really matter, and I don't think one option is more likely than the others. And of course it wasn't what Gaiseric's capital was called.

But that said, I also know I grasp the story very well, and Would hate to have that come into question. so forgive me as I settle in around here.  :serpico:

I mean no offense, but it sounds to me like those are just your own insecurities. Please don't blame them on us. If one grasps the story very well, no one will question that fact, and if somebody does, he or she will easily prove them wrong. Anyway, making mistakes is never a problem, what matters is one's attitude about it.

I can recognize Nordic reference to Yggdrasil and the Bodhi tree where Buddha reached nirvana but what was the last one? Some connection to Christianity?

It's not just limited to what you mention. The Bodhi tree originally comes from Hinduism, and in Europe or Russia there are many sacred trees in various mythologies (Norse of course but also Slavic or Finnish, etc.). Same in other parts of Asia and the Middle East, in Maya and Aztec cultures, and probably in Africa as well for all I know. It's a pretty universal element in myths all around the world. Anyway, concerning the "Western" reference in the episode, I would of course relate it to the Tree of Life of the Kabbalah. Self-evident if you ask me.

But in any case, remember that none of those exist in the world of Berserk, so don't think too hard about it.

And what was the point exactly? To make it as if the Ganishka tree fitted in several/every religion of the Berserk universe? Make it as universally enticing as possible, no?

The point is that it's present in myths, legends and tales all around the world, yes. Something rooted deep (see what I did here?) in mankind's collective consciousness. Making it a very strong element to connect the worlds together, perhaps even the strongest one? At this point it's hard to say. It would be quite the sight if people came from all over the world in pilgrimage to see the tree. They could even settle in Falconia afterwards. :slan:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #244 on: October 01, 2009, 08:15:41 PM »
What people would it be populated with?



Here comes the welcoming committee! :ganishka:

The point is that it's present in myths, legends and tales all around the world, yes. Something rooted deep (see what I did here?) in mankind's collective consciousness. Making it a very strong element to connect the worlds together, perhaps even the strongest one? At this point it's hard to say. It would be quite the sight if people came from all over the world in pilgrimage to see the tree. They could even settle in Falconia afterwards. :slan:

By that same token, it's interesting that the Holy See's famous insignia is not present in the facade of the new city despite Griffith's affiliation with and validation through the Pontiff; all the symbols seem either representative of Griffith's new empire, hark back to the age of Gaiseric when the continent was united under one rule, or neutral otherwise. So the city itself has a universal appeal that could tap into everyone's collective history.

Utopia :griffnotevil: ...until after dark. :femto:

Offline asmer

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #245 on: October 02, 2009, 07:28:58 AM »
the Holy See's famous insignia is not present in the facade of the new city

But if we consider the 'Falcon of Light' prophecies beeing part of the Holy See's doctrin (which I'm not that sure about?), can't we say that Griffith himself is now part of the Holy See's symbolism? As the long awaited Savior! (Some kind of messianic view as compared to "our" religions.....)

Like a new "insignia" for people to worship and to follow! :isidro:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #246 on: October 02, 2009, 08:19:42 AM »
But if we consider the 'Falcon of Light' prophecies beeing part of the Holy See's doctrin (which I'm not that sure about?)

You must be talking about the prophecy of the Falcon of Darkness. Said prophecy does not mention anything about a "Falcon of Light". And it is indeed present in the Holy See's scriptures. The Falcon of Light has a strong symbolism in the Holy See, but we currently do not know of any prophecies about it (which doesn't mean there might not be some anyway).

can't we say that Griffith himself is now part of the Holy See's symbolism? As the long awaited Savior! (Some kind of messianic view as compared to "our" religions.....)

He was already part of its symbolism before, however that doesn't address グリフィス's point, which is that despite being a prominent figure in that religion, his city, Falconia, does not really bear its mark.

Offline asmer

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #247 on: October 02, 2009, 11:06:26 AM »
You must be talking about the prophecy of the Falcon of Darkness.
Exactly, thanks.

He was already part of its symbolism before, however that doesn't address グリフィス's point, which is that despite being a prominent figure in that religion, his city, Falconia, does not really bear its mark.
Right, what I meant is that the city itself has quite a lot of Falcon references, which in itself seems like a clear reference to the Holy See's aforementionned scriptures. To be even more precise, even if the mark we've been used to see is not clearly shown I don't have that "universal appeal" feeling that グリフィス did mention when looking at Falconia!
Furthermore for now we don't have any idea of what stand inside the city, so why not a "church" or a temple, who knows :???:?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 307
« Reply #248 on: October 02, 2009, 11:24:23 AM »
Right, what I meant is that the city itself has quite a lot of Falcon references, which in itself seems like a clear reference to the Holy See's aforementionned scriptures.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Nothing in the story hints that falcons in general are a symbol of the Holy See. And nothing we've seen in Falconia so far is what I would call a "clear" reference to their scriptures, about which we know little to nothing anyway.

Furthermore for now we don't have any idea of what stand inside the city

Actually we do. Just look at this episode.

Offline asmer

Re: Episode 307
« Reply #249 on: October 02, 2009, 11:41:32 AM »
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
OK, I guess it's just my feeling then.... :farnese: However, I always interpreted the insignia/mark we've seen used by followers of the Holy See as some representation of a symbolized Falcon...?

Actually we do. Just look at this episode.
Argh, I "re-read" the episode before my previous post, and just realizes after your post that we do! :schierke: And it's somehow inspired by Rome I guess (the Colosseum, St. Peter's Square). But no church/temple in view (for now), that's for sure!