Author Topic: Current Episodes  (Read 158168 times)

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Offline Baldulf

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« Reply #150 on: October 11, 2007, 01:46:08 PM »
Eeer... I didn't get what happened at the begining of the chapter.
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Offline Dreft

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« Reply #151 on: October 11, 2007, 03:01:30 PM »
Yeah, sure wasn't expecting that one, it kind of makes sense in a crazy woman scorned kind of way, especially since she's trash... on that note, I hope the only reason he's concerned is because the knife was poisoned and has the antidote. =)

Anyway, fuck that, ZOMBIE-UEDA-4-LIFE! You guys see that shit!?


Well, anyone would freak out after first meeting the ghost of the guy you just killed, then being groped by some zombie, and finally meeting some random character who hasn't been seen for God knows how long, who appears out of nowhere and disappears into, well, nowhere! Crazy shit!

I feel sorry for Ueda though, but then again, I feel sorry for everyone Musashi (or Kojiro), brutally slaughters. This manga is so depressing :(

Offline Uriel

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« Reply #152 on: October 11, 2007, 03:38:13 PM »

Anyway, fuck that, ZOMBIE-UEDA-4-LIFE! You guys see that shit!?


That was an awesome, awesome moment.

Gah, I loved this chapter so much. Never a dull moment for Musashi, is there? I can't find the characters for poison anywhere in said characters little spiel -- but I was just as surprised as Musashi to see her! Maybe his look of concern was because the threw herself off the ledge into the rapids below? Hard to say.. but man, Inoue has made my crappy week much better. I should send the chap an e-mail! And randomly -- any takers on the "Kurando to Haunt Musashi" theory? He's not as distinguished as the other spectres in Musashi's head... but there is always a possibility.

I know if might seem unlikely, but what to you chaps think Musashi stomping out The Last Yoshioka? I do feel that it's very important to the character development of Musashi... sort like this:


Maybe with an eye-patch...

Offline Walter

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« Reply #153 on: October 11, 2007, 05:27:46 PM »
Definitely a cool chapter. Zombie Ueda was the highlight for me.
MUSASHI, I CAN STILL SEE YOUR EXPOSED GREY MATTER... MORE BRAAAAAINS...!

Anyway, just from my basic Japanese knowledge, Akemi says something about having been Seijuro's woman on page 18 (printed page number), just before she throws herself in the rapids. I too am wondering the seriousness of her having stabbed him. The translation will likely help with that.

Several months until the next chapter. I believe it said Feb 7... Hey, maybe it'll return to Matahachi for a while!   :isidro:

PS: Baldulf Dreft, we last saw Akemi in Volume 21. So, it wasn't that random really. You can even sort of see her considering this action in vol 21, when Seijuro perhaps jokingly suggests her using her charms on Musashi to make him "lose his edge." You know... this all reminds me of when he stepped on that nail just after he thought he was unstoppable in volume 12. He always gets brought back down to earth.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Baldulf

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« Reply #154 on: October 11, 2007, 08:50:30 PM »
No,I was thinking about the Kurando part.Didn't cath the action there.

The Akemi part was good and a surprise but not hard to understand.
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Offline Walter

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« Reply #155 on: October 11, 2007, 08:54:22 PM »
No,I was thinking about the Kurando part.Didn't cath the action there.

The Akemi part was good and a surprise but not hard to understand.
Whoops, my bad. I ment Dreft and his post about how "some random character who hasn't been seen for God knows how long"  :guts:
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Offline Griffith

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« Reply #156 on: October 11, 2007, 09:33:46 PM »
Have we just suspended spoiler tags here? Glad I read it first, you guys even add pictures ("here's the best moment!" =).

Anyway, I was only joking about the poison/antidote stuff, you know, that's the only reason he'd care that she jumped, heh heh...? Nevermind, bad joke. Anyway, reminds me of when Granny Hon'iden cuts him in the book (even Musashi's last expression reminds me of her "Matahatchi, what have you done!?" face). And man, Musashi's guard has been down for like, the past 3 or 4 issues already; he's spent. Next he's going to walk into a door.

But I understand his surprise, it was over to him after he kill Den, this is the same surprise as when he got this challenge in the first place; it should be over by principle, but it's not, it's never over. This death and killing has SPIRALED out of control, and it's still the fight he started; before Musashi made everyone an enemy with his own bloodthirst, now... everyone really IS his enemy because he's probably killed their loved one. I mean, Akemi will probably represent the last, most surprising, strike of anyone connected to the Yoshioka ("look out, Oko has an axe, Musashi!"), but it's like Takuan told him, all those people had family and ones they loved, that loved them too.

Time to get out of Kyoto. =)

Akemi says something about having been Seijuro's woman on page 18 (printed page number), just before she throws herself in the rapids.

Yeah, that's what I was hoping for, thinking it was either that or over really something shitty like Musashi says, "Huh, Akemi? Akemi who?" I'm glad it was at least somewhat the former (I still haven't ruled out selfish whining about being alone now), at least this is somewhat respectful.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 10:17:02 PM by Mushi »

Offline Walter

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« Reply #157 on: October 11, 2007, 09:48:45 PM »
Have we just suspended spoiler tags here? Glad I read it first, you guys even add pictures ("here's the best moment!" =).
I should have spoiled out a few of my statements, and I have retroactively done so with mine and Uriel's posts. My rationale at the moment was: Griff, CnC and Uriel have seen it already. Who else actually keeps up with Vagabond on these forums?  :guts:

Quote
Akemi will probably represent the last, most surprising, strike of anyone connected to the Yoshioka ("look out, Oko has an axe, Musashi!"), but it's like Takuan told him, all those people had family and ones they loved, that loved them too.
There's always the possibility the wolf who dragged Ueda in from the fields will have one last chomp of justice. But seriously, yeah I personally think this is the end of the arc.

Quote
Time to get out of Kyoto. =)
Up next, Farmer Musashi! Or, Edo.

As for Kurando staying in Musashi's head, I don't really think so. He didn't exactly have the same impact (or any at all) on Musashi as In'ei and Yagyu.
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Offline Griffith

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« Reply #158 on: October 11, 2007, 10:05:18 PM »
My rationale at the moment was: Griff, CnC and Uriel have seen it already. Who else actually keeps up with Vagabond on these forums?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking; the 5 people who actually read this section already saw it, huh?

There's always the possibility the wolf who dragged Ueda in from the fields will have one last chomp of justice.

Seriously, you could have had anyone show up there. I have new respect for all those "maybe whoever got in the way and Ueda cut them down instead of Musashi" theories. Well, no, I really don't.

But seriously, yeah I personally think this is the end of the arc.
Up next, Farmer Musashi! Or, Edo.

FARMER! FARMER!

Old Musashi had a farm, E-I-E-I-O.
On that farm he had a sword, E-I-E-I-O.
With a nntahn here, and nntahn there...

He definitely needs a change of pace and scenery, and it might be nice if he found a way to channel his strength into something he could feel good about, like helping people as nobody else can. Kill 70 men... but for a good cause. =)

Offline Dreft

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« Reply #159 on: October 11, 2007, 11:33:49 PM »
PS: Baldulf Dreft, we last saw Akemi in Volume 21. So, it wasn't that random really. You can even sort of see her considering this action in vol 21, when Seijuro perhaps jokingly suggests her using her charms on Musashi to make him "lose his edge." You know... this all reminds me of when he stepped on that nail just after he thought he was unstoppable in volume 12. He always gets brought back down to earth.

You're right, it wasn't random and it was fitting, but I have to say, it was really unexpected for me. As it was for Musashi! At least he hasn't seen her for ages! (Well, that's what I remember... He remembers her as that little girl, so I should be right about that :) ). I wonder what was going through her head, as she felt an affection for both Seijuro and Musashi. I also wonder what effect this has on Musashi.. He already was brought back to earth after slaughtering all the Yoshioka, I wonder if this made an extra impact. Off course, the Yoshioka were nameless guys for him, and they already made such an impact on him. It's as Griff said, she should really make him think, as the spiral of death and killing has gone to far. Swordsman laying down their lives is one thing, but little girls!

About the spoiler tags... The fact that this is a topic about the newest vagabond chapter, shouldn't that be enough evidence that there will probably be spoilers in this topic? That people should read the chapter
first, and after that, the discussion in this thread?

Offline Walter

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« Reply #160 on: October 12, 2007, 01:07:01 AM »
I wonder what was going through her head, as she felt an affection for both Seijuro and Musashi.
Well, her crush on "Takezo" was pretty petty, and she's had at least a year with Seijuro, even allegedly been engaged to him, so it's pretty clear where her REAL affections were, I think.

Quote
About the spoiler tags... The fact that this is a topic about the newest vagabond chapter, shouldn't that be enough evidence that there will probably be spoilers in this topic? That people should read the chapter
first, and after that, the discussion in this thread?
Yeah I tend to agree, however for this situation, I wasn't even aware the chapter was out yet, so what do I do but click the thread's title on the main index, and it takes me to the newest post, which may or may not contain spoilers. So, you see for the brief time after the episode is released, I think spoilers should be tagged. After a few days/weeks, it's fair game.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Dreft

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« Reply #161 on: October 12, 2007, 09:24:35 AM »
Well, her crush on "Takezo" was pretty petty, and she's had at least a year with Seijuro, even allegedly been engaged to him, so it's pretty clear where her REAL affections were, I think.

Yeah I tend to agree, however for this situation, I wasn't even aware the chapter was out yet, so what do I do but click the thread's title on the main index, and it takes me to the newest post, which may or may not contain spoilers. So, you see for the brief time after the episode is released, I think spoilers should be tagged. After a few days/weeks, it's fair game.

Yeah, you're right twice. But I don't think her crush on Takezo was that petty. It was childish and unrealistic, but it lasted for four years, in which she waited for him to return. She even cried when Matahachi told her he still was alive. Waiting for someone for such a long time means he had quite an effect on her. But then again, her relationship with Seijuro has grown a lot since then, at that moment she started thinking that he wasn't that bad, but a year later she gave herself to Seijuro. So of course, Seijuro is her real affection at this moment. But the way she said she knew Takezo  "a little" in volume 21, signifies for me that there still is some lingering affection for Takezo. (Or she is afraid that Musashi will cut Seijuro down. And of course, Musashi isn't Takezo anymore.) So I think we shouldn't reject her crush for Takezo that easily, even though I agree she is Seijuro's woman now.

I think I'll just have to wait for a translation, then it'll be all clear.

Offline Griffith

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« Reply #162 on: October 12, 2007, 07:51:20 PM »
Yeah, I still don't think her obsession with him is to be underestimated (she was crying over him after 4 years, and that was only a year ago), whatever her relationship with Seijuro. One which wasn't ever really going to end in marriage; that was just Oko's deluded fantasy, and Akemi knew it. Especially after Seijuro offended her the last time they were together, basically treating her like a whore in regards to Musashi. And I especially know this since I just read the translation and yes, she predictably had some whiny bullshit about how Mushi should have taken her with him, wah wah wah, ya know, 5 years ago.

Typical woman. :carcus:




P.S. I'm even taking back and witholding the respect I gave her for the moment for invoking Seijuro as a motivation in the stabbing. With all she said and that stupid look on her face, it's as if she's just saying that in the hopes that Musashi is supposed to care. So she's in fact using Seijuro's name in vain and besmirching his memory! =)

Or maybe not, depending on if she just meant he should have taken her because she then became Seijuro's woman and that's why she had to kill him now. We'll see.

Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #163 on: October 13, 2007, 02:05:36 AM »
I was interest to see, they have been taking the ethereal side of things up a notch with the ghosts appearing around him, not just related to the psychology of two fighters before a duel or whatever. I'm not sure what I think about that personally.

Also, was that fall big enough to kill Akemi, and if so, why did she wait to kill herself right on front of Musashi? Did she want to get back at him that much to try and leave him with guilt? Maybe she expects him to save her.
It would be interesting to see if Musashi even cared. I get the impression he does have some regret from killing so many people, maybe this will push his guilt further.

Offline Griffith

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« Reply #164 on: October 13, 2007, 04:15:38 AM »
I was interest to see, they have been taking the ethereal side of things up a notch with the ghosts appearing around him, not just related to the psychology of two fighters before a duel or whatever. I'm not sure what I think about that personally.

Is it anymore extreme than Inshun's out of body experience in volume 8? I always feel these things are more spiritual than supernatural; not meant to be taken totally literally, but abstract thoughts and feelings that need to be thought of and conveyed in the abstract.

Or who knows? Maybe Musashi has schizophrenia, or depression with psychotic tendencies, something like that. =)

Also, was that fall big enough to kill Akemi, and if so, why did she wait to kill herself right on front of Musashi? Did she want to get back at him that much to try and leave him with guilt? Maybe she expects him to save her.
It would be interesting to see if Musashi even cared. I get the impression he does have some regret from killing so many people, maybe this will push his guilt further.

The river is supposed to kill her more than anything to do with the jump. Keep in mind, she also tried to drown herself in the novel, under different circumstances, and was rescued by... Uncle Gon (sadly, Gon is gone in Vagabond).

Anyway, he certainly seems affected, quite an emotional roller coaster he's been on, after all.

Offline Dreft

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« Reply #165 on: October 13, 2007, 09:41:57 AM »
The river is supposed to kill her more than anything to do with the jump. Keep in mind, she also tried to drown herself in the novel, under different circumstances, and was rescued by... Uncle Gon (sadly, Gon is gone in Vagabond).

Now that's a spoiler! Not that I really mind, it just reminds me that I should get off my lazy ass and continue reading the novel, even more now I know that uncle Gon is going to save Akemi. :)

Anyway, he certainly seems affected, quite an emotional roller coaster he's been on, after all.

Well, he should be affected, after all, if it wasn't for her, he wouldn't be alive anyway. That alone should leave an impression on him, and yeah, as you said, he's been on quite a rollercoaster, killing all those people. This should change his life, otherwise, he would be quite.. stupid.

Offline Uriel

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« Reply #166 on: October 13, 2007, 09:00:39 PM »
Translations for #242 are out:

ハッ
"Ha"

ハア
"Haah"


This chapter brought to you by Musashi, The Breath of Carnage.



Several months until the next chapter. I believe it said Feb 7...
 

Fear not:

"We're taking a break starting next week. #243 will be in the last issue on sale in November."

A reason to be joyful my friend. Hey, we might even get a Berserk/Vagabond double-whammy in the up coming future? Imagine it...

And I have it on good authority that there is a reason for Inoue's time off. Details will be discussed once I get some confirmation, though it won't affect many of us, me thinks.

Offline Griffith

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« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2007, 11:31:52 PM »
And I have it on good authority that there is a reason for Inoue's time off. Details will be discussed once I get some confirmation, though it won't affect many of us, me thinks.

What don't you just say what it is? As exciting as promises of unconfirmed rumors about things that don't affect is, it still leaves a little to be desired. =)


Anyway, something else to keep in mind about this issue going into the future...

Quote from: Inoue
This is the last chapter in volume 27.
But, there were some things that are missing, so I will be touching it up.
Look forward to it.

It's exciting to know there's pages to come (maybe more transition between Kurando alive and his spirit form, or a more at the end perhaps?), but also interesting that even being late Inoue STILL hasn't put this one behind him; seems like he's wrestling with finishing this this particular segment, like he's lost his usual flow... the flow. =)

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« Reply #168 on: October 14, 2007, 01:57:39 AM »
Nothing special, really..

Apparently Inoue is coming to America for the relocating of the NYC branch of Kinokuniya (the best place on the island to waste an afternoon) and will be painting a mural for the new store in a designate spot. I got this from ANN, but they didn't cite any kind of source and we know Viz would never confirm/deny it. This takes place November 19th, so maybe he'll be working on the chapters in the mean time so we can get stuff, as promised, while he's soaking up the winter sun in Manhattan.

I might go up.. I'm starting to miss my old home anyway =(

Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #169 on: October 16, 2007, 09:24:13 AM »
Is it anymore extreme than Inshun's out of body experience in volume 8? I always feel these things are more spiritual than supernatural; not meant to be taken totally literally, but abstract thoughts and feelings that need to be thought of and conveyed in the abstract.

Or who knows? Maybe Musashi has schizophrenia, or depression with psychotic tendencies, something like that. =)
 
My concern is I suppose how literally it is supposed to be taken, it seems rather literal. Treading corners on a concept that can bring a bit of a different angle in a subtle way is one thing. But, and I'll emphasise in my opinion, although Vagabond is one of my more prefered mangas I think they take it too far in some parts.

Not just with the outer body experiences, but certain elements are too exaggerated for my liking. The Musashi novel spoke about several related concepts in similar ways to Vagabond, but stood to a more philosophical stance on spiritual existence and related concepts, not fully fledged ghosts and merging mind reads etc. That being said I'm still reading it and enjoying it, so it's just nitpicking really.

Quote
The river is supposed to kill her more than anything to do with the jump. Keep in mind, she also tried to drown herself in the novel, under different circumstances, and was rescued by... Uncle Gon (sadly, Gon is gone in Vagabond).

Anyway, he certainly seems affected, quite an emotional roller coaster he's been on, after all.

Yeah, I almost forgot about that in the book. Seems like Musashi's the only one that can save her now is the Musashi. It could go on a different path from the book and have her die now, but I doubt it, she has too much of an important role.

Anywho, shame he is leaving right away after the fight instead of returning to Koetsu's and seeing Kojiro again.


Offline Griffith

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« Reply #170 on: October 17, 2007, 02:00:24 AM »
My concern is I suppose how literally it is supposed to be taken, it seems rather literal. Treading corners on a concept that can bring a bit of a different angle in a subtle way is one thing. But, and I'll emphasise in my opinion, although Vagabond is one of my more preferred mangas I think they take it too far in some parts.

Not just with the outer body experiences, but certain elements are too exaggerated for my liking. The Musashi novel spoke about several related concepts in similar ways to Vagabond, but stood to a more philosophical stance on spiritual existence and related concepts, not fully fledged ghosts and merging mind reads etc. That being said I'm still reading it and enjoying it, so it's just nitpicking really.

Well, you're being rather vague in what you think is too far versus what's acceptable to you, and how/why, even your initial comment about this one wasn't very specific. I think Inoue does an excellent job conveying the spiritual experiences Musashi and others are having to us through exaggeration. I mean, you can't draw abstract concepts and feelings, you have to draw something to get the concept across and make the reader feel it, akin to flashbacks or simply showing us a mental image. A lot of things boil down to Musashi's own experience and perception, like when Inshun's spirit was talking to him, only Musashi heard it. It wasn't like Inshun was a full-fledged spectre. It goes back to the whole spiritual versus supernatural thing. Using Berserk as familiar ground for comparison, I certainly don't think Musashi's "ghosts" are anything like the ones we see Guts' encounter.

There's other examples, such as the fight with Seijuro; like on the last page of the first chapter of volume 22, when it shows Seijuro standing there after having been cut down. Seijuro wasn't actually standing there like that, it obviously wasn't literal as his upper body went flying, but it conveyed the gravity of the moment. Same territory when Kojiro attacks Ittosai and his body looks like a raging series of wild brush strokes, and when he wrote Musashi's name, the large brushstrokes Inoue used to convey his body. Even just those shots of Musashi at the beginning of chapters where he's standing out in nature, in a forest or lake, etc.

In a nutshell, I think there's a lot of romanticism, which encourages things like ghosts and spirits in a natural sense (like, not the "Boo!" kind), and impressionism in Inoue's work in Vagabond, and taking it literally, in some cases, borders on misinterpretation. In any case, I don't really understand your concern, I guess it depends on how you look at it and what perspective you have on these things, spiritual and artistic, coming in.

Yeah, I almost forgot about that in the book. Seems like Musashi's the only one that can save her now is the Musashi. It could go on a different path from the book and have her die now, but I doubt it, she has too much of an important role.

Yeah, I'm voting save, mostly because it would be better than Musashi just watching her kill herself in front of him. I disagree that she's important though, at least in Vagabond. Inoue could always make her more important like in the book, but as it stands, he could just as well kill her now.

Anywho, shame he is leaving right away after the fight instead of returning to Koetsu's and seeing Kojiro again.

I don't know, what's more to say? He could still drop by on his way out of town, but yeah, seems like he does just want to get the hell out of there (and with good reason, like it's getting harder and harder to escape).

Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #171 on: October 25, 2007, 12:12:28 PM »
Soz about the late reply, craming for exams. I didn't intend on getting into it. The thing is with this sort of issue, parts I don't think are good you will have a an answer and perspective to why you think it's justified. But ok, I will use a few examples I really didn't like.

Well, you're being rather vague in what you think is too far versus what's acceptable to you, and how/why, even your initial comment about this one wasn't very specific. I think Inoue does an excellent job conveying the spiritual experiences Musashi and others are having to us through exaggeration. I mean, you can't draw abstract concepts and feelings, you have to draw something to get the concept across and make the reader feel it, akin to flashbacks or simply showing us a mental image. A lot of things boil down to Musashi's own experience and perception, like when Inshun's spirit was talking to him, only Musashi heard it. It wasn't like Inshun was a full-fledged spectre. It goes back to the whole spiritual versus supernatural thing. Using Berserk as familiar ground for comparison, I certainly don't think Musashi's "ghosts" are anything like the ones we see Guts' encounter.

There's other examples, such as the fight with Seijuro; like on the last page of the first chapter of volume 22, when it shows Seijuro standing there after having been cut down. Seijuro wasn't actually standing there like that, it obviously wasn't literal as his upper body went flying, but it conveyed the gravity of the moment. Same territory when Kojiro attacks Ittosai and his body looks like a raging series of wild brush strokes, and when he wrote Musashi's name, the large brushstrokes Inoue used to convey his body. Even just those shots of Musashi at the beginning of chapters where he's standing out in nature, in a forest or lake, etc.

In a nutshell, I think there's a lot of romanticism, which encourages things like ghosts and spirits in a natural sense (like, not the "Boo!" kind), and impressionism in Inoue's work in Vagabond, and taking it literally, in some cases, borders on misinterpretation. In any case, I don't really understand your concern, I guess it depends on how you look at it and what perspective you have on these things, spiritual and artistic, coming in.

I feel Guts's encounter with ghosts (alongside everything else) can be justified in a whole different context because it's a fully fledged fantasy story. That being said you're right that it can be justfied through being abstract and so forth. Now that I think of it it's not the ghost concepts that bother me as much as a few other concepts that have been used in the story.

Using the example of Musashi vs Inshun, it is obvious that Inoue wanted it to be a very poignant moment in the story, otherwise he would not have stretched it out to be comparable to a Naruto or Dragon Ball Z arc. It seemed he really wanted to make the foundations of story more clear on how he makes the psychological, spirtual and philosphical aspects of Musashi and other significant characters, and went to lengths to articulate the situation.
I would agree that it was a good chance to do so in many aspects. It's a turning point for Musashi in his character development which of course is a significant story element. I can't help but feel it was taken too far though. The whole situation during the nearly two volumes of the fight taking place shows their perceptions and whatnot, I think it was just overdone how much Musashi, Inshun and other surrounding characters go back and forth looking at the situation from every possible angle... overkill might be a fitting for the context. There were others that followed what I would consider to also be overdone, but that situation was a particularly heavy.

Whats more, I think it's just ridiculous with the whole thing about taking it to new depths into "mind battling," Ki or whatever they call it with the Kami'Izumi ise no kami hidetsuna character, I couldn't get into that at all. The way the guy in the flashback defeated the young Sekishusai and In'ei in the name of Ki, philosophy or whatever just didn't work for me at all, not as a reader, Otaku or an ex fighter. It could've been overlooked if again, Inoue didn't put so much emphasis on it, that's the painful bit.

A similar feeling I got from Musashi's defeat on Sekishusai, a bedridden old master who managed to out-psych him or whatever, it can be interpreted in several ways but I was just.... well not taking it seriously.
Even if he didn't take it like Eiji's story line where Musashi realises that bothering an old retired master would be petty and dishonerable (although something along those lines would've been a better alternative I think) Inoue's choice to follow this concept further onto a new level was just... well I might say pointless but he was definitely trying to get something across, but I didn't like it at all, and even if you don't agree I hope you can at least see why people might feel this way. 

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Yeah, I'm voting save, mostly because it would be better than Musashi just watching her kill herself in front of him. I disagree that she's important though, at least in Vagabond. Inoue could always make her more important like in the book, but as it stands, he could just as well kill her now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think particularly highly of her either. But even though Inoue will cut corners on the fundamental story line, I doubt he will kill her off or anything on account of her role in the novel.

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I don't know, what's more to say? He could still drop by on his way out of town, but yeah, seems like he does just want to get the hell out of there (and with good reason, like it's getting harder and harder to escape).

I just enjoyed seeing them interact. But I suppose if they spent another 10 minutes together this time it'd probably lead to a premature battle the story isn't ready for yet.

Offline Griffith

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« Reply #172 on: October 31, 2007, 05:31:02 PM »
Soz about the late reply, craming for exams. I didn't intend on getting into it.

Same here.

The thing is with this sort of issue, parts I don't think are good you will have a an answer and perspective to why you think it's justified. But ok, I will use a few examples I really didn't like.

Hahaha, you know me too well! :guts:

But maybe I'll surprise you and even add an example or two of my own.

Using the example of Musashi vs Inshun, it is obvious that Inoue wanted it to be a very poignant moment in the story, otherwise he would not have stretched it out to be comparable to a Naruto or Dragon Ball Z arc. It seemed he really wanted to make the foundations of story more clear on how he makes the psychological, spirtual and philosphical aspects of Musashi and other significant characters, and went to lengths to articulate the situation.
I would agree that it was a good chance to do so in many aspects. It's a turning point for Musashi in his character development which of course is a significant story element. I can't help but feel it was taken too far though. The whole situation during the nearly two volumes of the fight taking place shows their perceptions and whatnot, I think it was just overdone how much Musashi, Inshun and other surrounding characters go back and forth looking at the situation from every possible angle... overkill might be a fitting for the context. There were others that followed what I would consider to also be overdone, but that situation was a particularly heavy.

Yeah, while I enjoy all the training and everything leading up to it, they do basically stare at each other for a volume, it's a bit long and I understand why Inoue did it as well for the sake of the importance of what was ultimately and instantaneous moment, but I agree that while certainly well done, not his smoothest work. Relatively, his pacing and scene to scene back and forth during the battle with the Yagyu senior disciples was awe inspiring (particularly in #95 Longing). It's the first time reading a comic where I felt like I was actually watching a movie, not via my imagination, but how it moved in itself. Amazing.

Whats more, I think it's just ridiculous with the whole thing about taking it to new depths into "mind battling," Ki or whatever they call it with the Kami'Izumi ise no kami hidetsuna character, I couldn't get into that at all. The way the guy in the flashback defeated the young Sekishusai and In'ei in the name of Ki, philosophy or whatever just didn't work for me at all, not as a reader, Otaku or an ex fighter. It could've been overlooked if again, Inoue didn't put so much emphasis on it, that's the painful bit.

Now this is where I'll disagree with you, even to the point of your interpretation of the scene (which I admit I'm fond of). I don't think the point was that Kami'Izumi beat them with his Ki like magic or anything like that. I think he was honestly superior to them technically and beat them in practical fashion, all the Ki stuff is simply representative of that superiority, confidence, and presence (anyone who's ever seen Michael Jordan can attest to the reality of this phenomenon =). Look at the similar scene with Sekishusai and Toji just before that, there's nothing about Ki, but he's simply able to take the sword away from him with his technique, Toji doesn't even know what happened, and there's no implication he was psyched out or anything, just beaten. So, I don't think it's as mystical as you do, and you might be the source of your own discomfort on this one; it's your painful interpretation bloodlust being reflected by Inoue's Ki! :troll:

A similar feeling I got from Musashi's defeat on Sekishusai, a bedridden old master who managed to out-psych him or whatever, it can be interpreted in several ways but I was just.... well not taking it seriously.
Even if he didn't take it like Eiji's story line where Musashi realises that bothering an old retired master would be petty and dishonerable (although something along those lines would've been a better alternative I think) Inoue's choice to follow this concept further onto a new level was just... well I might say pointless but he was definitely trying to get something across, but I didn't like it at all, and even if you don't agree I hope you can at least see why people might feel this way.

Now you're breaking Wally's heart, he loves that scene. =)

I think it all has more to do with Musashi than the old man anything the old man does, who wasn't even being aggressive; it was all in Musashi's head. But, it was out rather of character for him, or that he coming out of his old character anyway, and a very "I don't get it" sort of scene left up to a lot of interpretation as you say. Even Musashi reflects on it as such in volume 21. There's definitely a lot of abstraction in there though (MUSASHI... IN... SPACE...) to represent the great presence of the man we obviously can't feel on paper.


Anyway, you missed a couple of things on this whole Ki complaint front, including the biggest one to me actually; when Takuan cuts down Kohei, "with his mind." Uhhhh, it sticks out to me, maybe even more than it did originally; not a lot more I can even say about that one. =)

And not quite in the same discussion, but concerning realism (and there's no room for an abstract interpretation here), while I love all the "No sword" stuff, including those flashbacks of the old masters, and Musashi's current ascent to that, which is why the second fight with Den is also a personal favorite, the whole thing with Musashi forgetting to draw his sword, and even attacking without it... yeah, a little too cute for me, to say the least. I'll just leave it at that.

I just enjoyed seeing them interact. But I suppose if they spent another 10 minutes together this time it'd probably lead to a premature battle the story isn't ready for yet.

I enjoy it too, but I think a little goes a long way, and I SURE don't want any premature battle. I worry Inoue is going to burn out and end things before it's time. If I don't get to see Musashi grow (like literally, in fields =) and put his ability to good use and find purpose, I'll be rather put out.

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« Reply #173 on: November 30, 2007, 03:05:08 PM »
243 is out, people.  Get with it! :)

Kojiro tearin' that face up.  ewwww.
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« Reply #174 on: November 30, 2007, 03:31:27 PM »
Hm interesting chapter. I'll wait til more people have read it before discussing it openly.

Cool to finally get a glimpse of post-Ito, pre-Kyoto arc Kojiro. I think it's amusing Kohei thought he could take Kojiro down.  :guts:

Too bad it was out of order because the guy who uploaded it had a wonky numbering scheme. I recommend anybody who gets this to manually put them in order first, adding a 0 before each number before 10.
:femto: :slan: :ubik: