Author Topic: Current Episodes  (Read 161982 times)

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Offline CnC

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« Reply #175 on: November 30, 2007, 03:34:42 PM »
Hm interesting chapter. I'll wait til more people have read it before discussing it openly.

Too bad it was out of order because the guy who uploaded it had a wonky numbering scheme. I recommend anybody who gets this to manually put them in order first, adding a 0 before each number before 10.

The version I got was in order, thankfully.  I've had that happen before and, yea, it's a bit confusing.  :serpico:
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Offline Uriel

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« Reply #176 on: November 30, 2007, 06:00:20 PM »
キター!!!

I too will hold off on discussion, but I'd like to say that page 20 was one of the best panels to come out of Vagabond.

No more Vagabond until 2008 though.... Thanks, VaginalReal.

Offline Baldulf

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« Reply #177 on: November 30, 2007, 06:37:35 PM »
A top quality episode.It seems hard to believe but his style is growing even more.

In need of a translation.
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Offline Walter

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« Reply #178 on: November 30, 2007, 06:54:37 PM »
Did this chapter really contain any scenes of intense dialogue that need immediate translation? It was pretty effective visually.
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Offline Baldulf

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« Reply #179 on: November 30, 2007, 06:59:07 PM »
Quote
It was pretty effective visually.

Yes,it was.But I want to see if the dialogue match that dynamic narrative.
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Offline Walter

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« Reply #180 on: November 30, 2007, 07:05:47 PM »
Here ya go:


Kojiro: Awaaaaa... (Sex is good.)
Chick: It smells like sex in here. Im getting some air.
Kohei: I'm Kohei, remember me? Why are you having sex with HIM? I KILL U.
Remember when we held hands? I have really handsome fingers. I hope I don't ever lose them.
Chick: Don't step on our special frog.
Kohei: *STOMP* *SLICE*
Kojiro exits. Awa...? AUUWAAAAAAAA!!!!! *SHOVE* *SLICE*
Kohei: *OW!*
Kojiro: *Uwaaa....*
The End.
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Offline Ramen4ever

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« Reply #181 on: November 30, 2007, 08:00:49 PM »
Thx Walter, I liked the Sound effects the best. :guts:

But I'm a bit confused, who's Kohei?

Offline Walter

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« Reply #182 on: November 30, 2007, 08:05:09 PM »
I can't remember anything before I woke up this morning and realized I'd peed my bed because I forgot to get up and pee.

Tsujikaze Kohei AKA Shishido Baiken. Remember him from volumes 1-2; and the nasty scar he had when he appeared as Baiken in 12-13, finally saying the person that gave him the scar had been someone "much further along" the spiral of death and killing than he?
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Offline Griffith

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« Reply #183 on: November 30, 2007, 10:20:05 PM »


HIS
NAME
  WAS...

SASAKI
  KOJIRO...

Offline Baldulf

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« Reply #184 on: November 30, 2007, 11:09:09 PM »
Well,I admit I was asking for that.

Yeah,I guess the whole episode is easily understadable without a translation.But just thought that there could be some interesting insight about Kohei behind all that sfx.
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Offline Griffith

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« Reply #185 on: November 30, 2007, 11:41:50 PM »
By no means should you apologize, I too am very much looking forward to the translation; as overwhelming as Inoue's visuals are, they're still pivoted on his words. So, don't let Wally bully you with his, "We don't need the dialogue, it's all self-explanatory" stuff.  With that mentality, we literally couldn't catch a cold (I still think he was sick =)

Offline Walter

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« Reply #186 on: December 01, 2007, 01:49:39 AM »
Did Kojiro use the swallow cut technique in this ep? The blade goes down, then up quickly... Pretty damned sure that's it. He's sure striking a cool pose, at the very least  :serpico:
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Offline Uriel

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« Reply #187 on: December 01, 2007, 02:01:48 AM »
I don't know about that, but the little lady certain did a fair bit of swallow technique AM I RITE?!?!!

Offline Griffith

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« Reply #188 on: December 01, 2007, 10:48:27 AM »
Was it just me, or did he mostly seem upset about the frog being killed? :guts:
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 09:59:12 PM by Mushi »

Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #189 on: December 04, 2007, 03:03:18 PM »
By no means should you apologize, I too am very much looking forward to the translation; as overwhelming as Inoue's visuals are, they're still pivoted on his words. So, don't let Wally bully you with his, "We don't need the dialogue, it's all self-explanatory" stuff.  With that mentality, we literally couldn't catch a cold (I still think he was sick =)

Yeah, I was trying to hold out but as it's this been long without a translation, I caved in. :(

Was it just me, or did he mostly seem upset about the frog being killed? :guts:

I found that interesting too, didn't show much empathy towards his sweetness losing an eye in comparison. Kojiro's role as an antagonist was of course much more noticeable in Yoshikawa's Musashi, but so far in Vagabond I personally haven't seen any reason to believe Kojiro in this is any less ethical than Musashi.

Maybe little things like this showing little regard for life is something to slowly become more noticeable. I remember in the novel he seemed a bit nicer in the early introduction of his character as well, and saving Akemi if I'm not mistaken.




Offline Walter

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« Reply #190 on: December 04, 2007, 03:12:47 PM »
On the contrary, Kojiro's dark half has shown itself several times. It's just not as overt as Yoshikawa's character.  Kojiro's darkness in Vagabond is his numbness to violence and bloodshed, as emphasized by the ending scene of the Fudo fight and Ittosai in volume 16 ("Kojiro, you don't even flinch at the sight of his spilled guts. You won't live long.") It's also evident when he cuts down one of the Yoshioka in volume 23. It's as if he doesn't have a sense of conscience to his bloodthirst.

And no, it's made pretty clear from the outset that Kojiro is a vain asshole in Yoshikawa's novel.
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Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #191 on: December 04, 2007, 03:42:31 PM »
On the contrary, Kojiro's dark half has shown itself several times. It's just not as overt as Yoshikawa's character.  Kojiro's darkness in Vagabond is his numbness to violence and bloodshed, as emphasized by the ending scene of the Fudo fight and Ittosai in volume 16 ("Kojiro, you don't even flinch at the sight of his spilled guts. You won't live long.") It's also evident when he cuts down one of the Yoshioka in volume 23. It's as if he doesn't have a sense of conscience to his bloodthirst.

Musashi may be showing more maturity about fighting and a bit more remorse in recent volumes, other than that his bloodthirst is not inferior to Kojiro's, just different.
I can't see his actions to kill in a situation, at least at this point in time, being much different to Kojiro's.

Quote
And no, it's made pretty clear from the outset that Kojiro is a vain asshole in Yoshikawa's novel.

As I said he seemed a bit nicer in the early introduction. I'm not disputing him being portrayed as a vain arsehole early on, but it was made much more clear with his actions towards Akemi later on, and more noticeably his actions towards Seijuro after his arm was completely fucked after his bout with Musashi.
At the end of the chapter The Withered Field, the story narrative specifically pointed out what a messed up sociopath he is, and it was made out to be somewhat of a new revelation to his character.

I made the book/manga comparison to imply the narrative of the book showing his darker demeanor more with time. Yeah before he killed without hesitation in battles, but now he shows more concern or at least interest for a frog than a women he is/was directly intimate with. I see that as a bit of a new view on the sort of character he is, and I think that's what Griff might've been pointing out.


Offline Walter

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« Reply #192 on: December 04, 2007, 03:49:46 PM »
Musashi may be showing more maturity about fighting and a bit more remorse in recent volumes, other than that his bloodthirst is not inferior to Kojiro's, just different.
I can't see his actions to kill in a situation, at least at this point in time, being much different to Kojiro's.
Then how would you explain his remorse for having killed so many after Takuan breaks him down in volume 3? I couldn't see Kojiro being that sympathetic.
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Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #193 on: December 04, 2007, 03:58:49 PM »
Volume 3 in the manga? Just looking through it now, what stands out to me most about it is Musashi directly challenging the Yoshioka, killing several members and then throwing Seijuro's sign of good will out the window by smashing the gift of sake out of his hand directly. All for his personal ambition too.

Offline Walter

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« Reply #194 on: December 04, 2007, 04:01:47 PM »
Volume 3 in the manga? Just looking through it now, what stands out to me most about it is Musashi directly challenging the Yoshioka, killing several members and then throwing Seijuro's sign of good will out the window by smashing the gift of sake out of his hand directly. All actions because of his personal ambition.
The ending of Volume 2 then, jesus  :schierke:

Anyway, Im not trying to make a black or white argument here. Clearly there's some crossover between the two characters. Im just saying Musashi is more aware of his bloodlust as a degrading aspect of his personality. You can also see this during the beginning of the Inshun rematch. It's even verbalized by In'ei ("That graceless bloodthirst is gone.") . I just don't see Kojiro showing that kind of restraint or maturity of character. That's his dark half.
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Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #195 on: December 04, 2007, 04:20:15 PM »

Anyway, Im not trying to make a black or white argument here. Clearly there's some crossover between the two characters. Im just saying Musashi is more aware of his bloodlust as a degrading aspect of his personality. You can also see this during the beginning of the Inshun rematch. It's even verbalized by In'ei ("That graceless bloodthirst is gone.") . I just don't see Kojiro showing that kind of restraint or maturity of character. That's his dark half.

Yeah, Musashi is definitely more aware of his bloodlust. Musashi seems to be the protagonist because he is constantly developing himself as a character, whereas Kojiro, maybe partly because is he deaf, is less capable of such development. And Musashi is much more emotional as a person.

I just think Musashi has a long way to go before he develops into a more appropriate hero. He is still a bit selfish and lacks integrity in ways.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 04:29:04 PM by Sparnage »

Offline CnC

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« Reply #196 on: December 04, 2007, 05:50:32 PM »
Yeah, Musashi is definitely more aware of his bloodlust. Musashi seems to be the protagonist because he is constantly developing himself as a character, whereas Kojiro, maybe partly because is he deaf, is less capable of such development. And Musashi is much more emotional as a person.

They're both developing, albeit in different ways.  The sign of emotion towards the frog being one example.  I don't think it's a logical argument to say one is "more" emotional than the other.
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Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #197 on: December 08, 2007, 06:05:44 AM »
They're both developing, albeit in different ways.  The sign of emotion towards the frog being one example.  I don't think it's a logical argument to say one is "more" emotional than the other.

I'm just basing that statement on what we see. Musashi tends to show more emotion and in more ways than Kojiro. I've noticed in a few cases fear, sadness, regret, empathy and anger. Kojiro shows little of any of such emotions, seems to be more calm, level headed, stable and as Walter stated he is more numb or desensitised to others. I personally would include empathy as an emotional trait.
Take into consideration I don't feel being more or less emotional makes him any less of a character in regards to depth and development of course, just different.

Anywho, this particular topic is getting a bit too pedantic for my liking to keep going back and forth on, so yeah maybe you're right.


BTW wheres Mushi?

Offline Griffith

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« Reply #198 on: December 08, 2007, 10:13:29 AM »
Right here, and for anybody that hasn't checked, we'll hopefully be seeing the real Mushi come the second half of January, this little Kojiro/Kohei episode was apparently a stand alone. Smallest arc ever. Oh, and I have to concede and admit to Wally that, yeah, you really don't need a translation for this one. =)

Nice to see honest to God argumentation in here, I wanted to get involved, but didn't want to risk killing it somehow. Anyway, I tend to agree with the sentiment that Musashi displays and acts more on emotion than Kojiro. Not that he's any less capable of emotion, but he's certainly more aloof and understandably in his own little world. This episode for example is very interesting, do you think Musashi would have let Kohei go when he displayed fear and submission after what had transpired (furthermore, imagine what the similar circumstances could be and why or why not it would be possible)? You could say it was kindness, or a gross example of apathy concerning that woman. Kojiro's actions in the whole situation are really a strange series of catch 22s like that. We don't see Kojiro comfort her, or show concern after his initial surprise, and by the end she appears to be as gone and forgotten as Kohei. So, was Kojiro paying back Kohei for the wound he inflicted on her, or simply fighting a presented opponant until it became uninteresting? What did he really care about here? Of course, the answer is you don't kill Kojiro's favorite frog.

In any case, his... uh, fascination, with the dead frog, while ignoring the freshly disfigured and probably partially blinded woman he had just been making love to, doesn't really scream out, "compassion." Maybe he's truly enlightened and figured that the poor frog was the one that payed the ultimate price... then again, I think Kojiro is just weird. =)

Offline Sparnage

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« Reply #199 on: December 09, 2007, 05:07:01 PM »
Kojiro's actions in the whole situation are really a strange series of catch 22s like that. We don't see Kojiro comfort her, or show concern after his initial surprise, and by the end she appears to be as gone and forgotten as Kohei. So, was Kojiro paying back Kohei for the wound he inflicted on her, or simply fighting a presented opponant until it became uninteresting? What did he really care about here? Of course, the answer is you don't kill Kojiro's favorite frog.

It'll be interesting to see the next chapter if it continues on from that point, if he is completely done with both of them or tries to help that womans wound. If he did try to help her, I can't picture him seeming too concerned judging by the end of 243.

Quote
In any case, his... uh, fascination, with the dead frog, while ignoring the freshly disfigured and probably partially blinded woman he had just been making love to, doesn't really scream out, "compassion." Maybe he's truly enlightened and figured that the poor frog was the one that payed the ultimate price... then again, I think Kojiro is just weird. =)

Yeah, might have to lean towards the latter personally, but I'll keep an open mind.
And regarding the later posts in 242, I agreed with most of what you said, but couldn't really think of anything good to add that was worthy of following the last few posts, so I remained silent. :(