Current Episodes

Certainly the root cause might be fear and insecurity, but he still acts it out externally as if he is underestimating his opponent, so the physical results are the same. The cause might differ, but it ends similarly.

Anyways, I think Itou shows us what further along the path of 'unrivaled under heaven' or the path of carnage looks like. The dark-side (or what every you want to call it) is the metaphorical symbolization of that path. It doesn't adapt laterally with the outside world but rather confronts and over powers it. That is to say its attributes are static, but it's intensity is variable. In following, Itou seems to not have grown much philosophically but does seem to have grown in his intensity and ability to wield it effectively. I think Itou might be meant to show the folly of acting youthfully in ones old age. Looking back, young Musashi and Itou act similarly and the urges that motivated those action now seem manifest in their dark-sides. As we can see by the size and maliciousness, Itou's intensity is massive, but perhaps there is an upper limit to it or it can never attain a large enough size to overcome the world more broadly. Musashi, on the other hand, is at least thinking about moving more laterally in his life path. Itou's intensity wins this time, but not by a wide margin, thus his current predicament. As far as Musashi can tell though, Itou's path has paid off, thus he is temped to follow him. I think Itou is meant to show that that path is tragic on at least some level. Besides the underlying insecurity you mentioned, at some point he lost part of his hand and to a swordsman, that is a tragedy.
If Kojirou is able to be the one that takes his hand, even if he loses afterward,
it shows that intensity is fickle and fleeing, thus reinforcing the point that Itou's [and potentially Musashi's] path is fundamentally flawed.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Dante Julius said:
Certainly the root cause might be fear and insecurity, but he still acts it out externally as if he is underestimating his opponent, so the physical results are the same. The cause might differ, but it ends similarly.

Well, I think he probably has the proper readiness for his opponents, but doesn't show it, and even goes out of his way to intimidate them. Now,
Kojiro
is a whole different story, as Ittosai himself already admitted, like Jisai, he could longer tell the limits of
Kojiro's
potential. Let's see if that bears out here and he's caught off guard.

Dante Julius said:
Anyways, I think Itou shows us what further along the path of 'unrivaled under heaven' or the path of carnage looks like. The dark-side (or what every you want to call it) is the metaphorical symbolization of that path. It doesn't adapt laterally with the outside world but rather confronts and over powers it. That is to say its attributes are static, but it's intensity is variable. In following, Itou seems to not have grown much philosophically but does seem to have grown in his intensity and ability to wield it effectively. I think Itou might be meant to show the folly of acting youthfully in ones old age. Looking back, young Musashi and Itou act similarly and the urges that motivated those action now seem manifest in their dark-sides. As we can see by the size and maliciousness, Itou's intensity is massive, but perhaps there is an upper limit to it or it can never attain a large enough size to overcome the world more broadly. Musashi, on the other hand, is at least thinking about moving more laterally in his life path. Itou's intensity wins this time, but not by a wide margin, thus his current predicament. As far as Musashi can tell though, Itou's path has paid off, thus he is temped to follow him. I think Itou is meant to show that that path is tragic on at least some level. Besides the underlying insecurity you mentioned, at some point he lost part of his hand and to a swordsman, that is a tragedy.
If Kojirou is able to be the one that takes his hand, even if he loses afterward,
it shows that intensity is fickle and fleeing, thus reinforcing the point that Itou's [and potentially Musashi's] path is fundamentally flawed.

I pretty much agree with that, especially the juxtaposition with Musashi, and we can already see him questioning that negative energy, as well as already being entranced with the positive ways of Sekshusai, whereas in his bloodthirsty youth he idolized Ittosai. Musashi's already considering the difference, with Ittosai and Sekishusai representing fundamentally different schools of thought on the way of the sword, the light and dark side as Ueda refers to it, or to once again throw out this quote from the novel, "Kojiro believed in the sword of strength and skill. Musashi believed in the sword of the spirit. This was the only difference between the two." As we've seen, Ito struggles to find satisfaction with the sword of strength and skill, while Yagyu has already passed away content with the sword of the spirit. So far Inoue's Musashi has vacillated between those extremes, so perhaps he will reconcile them in the middle way to attain true greatness.



http://www.itplanning.co.jp/vaga.html

vol.gif


286a.gif


286b.gif

Which each fall is one of the most busy year, especially this year, somewhat!
(What, every year, you're talking)
Vagabond Vol 32-minute episodes will also put it after two episodes.
In fact the cover of volume 32 the other day after we passed another draw. 1 is released next month, is the Deadline is today. To fulfill the end without escaping.


2009.11.24
Takehiko Inoue

It's back!


Griffith: http://www.itplanning.co.jp/images/vaga/286b.gif
Upper right
Water: lol
pixar's Vagabond!
Griffith: That is one happy Ittosai.
Water: if this is Kojiro/Ittosai, whats going on on the next page over
looks like a spirit moving out of him
Griffith: Kojiro beast
Sloggo Kojiro
Water: hehe
would be interesting to see, if so.
Griffith: Could be why Ittosai looks so happy.
Other than it seems Kojiro attacked him.
Water: or maybe Kojiro just has a cold
Griffith: Haha, looks like Inoue plans to move a speech bubble to the other side of Ito's head.
Well, it looks like somebodies Sloggo, Ito's or Kojiro's is coming out anyway.
I've gotten way better at interpreting the sketches.
Water: hehe
Griffith: Used to just leave it to you, you were a master.
I'd just see chicken scratch. =)
It's why I never made it to the next level as an artist, "Look at that mess... why even bother?"
Water: well, thanks. but its usually nonsense
Griffith: "Where's my daughter at!?"
Water: i mean i doubt even Inoue can make sense of some of these
Griffith: "Shit, what did I want to draw here again... I can't read my own writing!"
Water: i can see that happening =)
".....fuck!"
Griffith: That leaves invisible thorns in the reader.
And artist.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I just saw 286, so don't look at this until you've seen it as well, obviously:
Dante called it exactly.
 
Man, Kojiro performed that move on Ito in that physical condition? He could barely stand! What do you guys think that Sloggo thing coming out of him as he thrusted represented?

Oh, and it looks like the old man's gonna live, thankfully. He doesn't look so bad anymore.

Apparently, no 287 until 2010, guys. No big surprise, I guess.
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
GReat!
I think that sloggo Kojiro has is the same blood thirst Musash and Itto have, but somehow he managed to stay put and focus. As you can see after he swings and the sword tip passes Ittosai's face, the next panel you can see with his right hand turning the blade so he can swing upwards.
I think even Ittosai being injured his praising Kojiro.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Eluvei said:
Man, Kojiro performed that move on Ito in that physical condition? He could barely stand! What do you guys think that Sloggo thing coming out of him as he thrusted represented?

Oh, and it looks like the old man's gonna live, thankfully. He doesn't look so bad anymore.

Apparently, no 287 until 2010, guys. No big surprise, I guess.

I'm a little surprised, after all he did just take a break and was only one episode away from finishing the volume, his usual break time. Oh well, 2010 is only about a month away. I wonder if he's particularly busy with everything, just needs more rest, or more time to think about how to move forward with Vagabond.

Anyway,
I'm also surprised Kojiro was able to pull that off in the shape he's in, though it looks like Ittosai wasn't taking him particularly seriously in that state, and perhaps Kojiro even recognized this and intentionally used it against him, which might also explain that sloggo like presence that comes off him (blood thirst or fear one would think). It's like Kojiro went from being seriously pissed off and wild to serenely focused on what he was doing.

Th3Branded0ne said:
GReat!
I think that sloggo Kojiro has is the same blood thirst Musash and Itto have, but somehow he managed to stay put and focus. As you can see after he swings and the sword tip passes Ittosai's face, the next panel you can see wth his right hand turning the blade so he can swing upwards.
I think even Ittosai being injured his praising Kojiro.

Yeah, Ittosai certainly displays amazing temperament, you'd think he'd be more upset, or at least shocked over what's just happened to him. Maybe he is, but Ito is a strange man, it's not a stretch to thinks he almost appreciates it like a favor. Personally, I'd want to cut the little bastards hands off while he's down. =)
 
グリフィス said:
I'm a little surprised, after all he did just take a break and was only one episode away from finishing the volume, his usual break time. Oh well, 2010 is only about a month away. I wonder if he's particularly busy with everything, just needs more rest, or more time to think about how to move forward with Vagabond.

Yeah, he's probably been busier since the exhibits. Also had to paint that huge thing for that museum in Tokyo, so I guess he's really beat.

グリフィス said:
It's like Kojiro went from being seriously pissed off and wild to serenely focused on what he was doing.

Indeed! And that's even more surprising when it comes from a guy that just fought a group of well trained swordsmen, was tired as hell and drank from a well that contained human feces!
:isidro:

This is a little off, but do you guys think Musashi will ever fight Hyogonosuke? There was so much tension between them when their paths crossed.
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Eluvei said:
This is a little off, but do you guys think Musashi will ever fight Hyogonosuke? There was so much tension between them when their paths crossed.

I would say he doesn't. By the time they meet now, Hyougo might say, "Hey, you remind me so much of grandpa, I just can't fight you" But that's just a guess.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Eluvei said:
Indeed! And that's even more surprising when it comes from a guy that just fought a group of well trained swordsmen, was tired as hell and drank from a well that contained human feces!
:isidro:

Yeah, we'll know better with the translation, but I'm putting a lot of this on
Ittosai
. He was fighting maybe the greatest opponent of his life to that point, he just didn't know it, and so wasn't ready. A shame.

Eluvei said:
This is a little off, but do you guys think Musashi will ever fight Hyogonosuke? There was so much tension between them when their paths crossed.

There could be some kind of meeting similar to what Branded described, where one sort of politely defers to the other, or they just sort of size each other up, but at this point I wouldn't bet on them engaging in some epic bloody battle. Maybe they'll both be so centered, there won't be a need to fight? :SK:

Of course, I haven't had the best luck predicting these things lately, I realize I was so much better at it when Musashi was fighting everybody and winning every time. =)

While we're on the subject of the old days though...

Walter said:
Speaking of Sloggo, I was reading through Vagabond again, and in volume 2, just as Kohei is about to kill Musashi after slashing him down form the tree, Kohei is distracted/scared shitless by a projection from Takuan. It looks like Takuan's Sloggo. Him all wrapped in buddhist imagery with a sword. I'd forgotten about the scene, but it's put into a new light now that Inoue has focused so much on this aggressive ego projection in recent chapters.
グリフィス said:
Good call, I agree that all the sloggo stuff puts that in a new light, but I'd be wary of retroactively labeling them the same. For one, we see Takuan's sloggo for sure in volume 29, and it's quite different from the volume 2 image and more like what we see from Musashi and Ittosai. Of course, what happens in volume 2 could be it in a more concentrated, purposeful form, but it could also just be a similar artistic depiction of blood thirst or power. I don't know, but I think it bears more discussion, any other thoughts or counterpoints?

I'm bringing this up again because just 4 episodes prior to the scene Wally was describing, in "#16 Captured" to be exact, we see another depiction that seems even more pertinent to the pre-Sloggo discussion.

vol2sloggo2.jpg
vol2sloggo1.jpg


And after that, Inoue's between episodes doodle...

vol2sloggo3.jpg


Protosloggo?​
 
I never noticed that, it does look like Sloggo, Takuan's scary demon thing as well. Cool stuff!

グリフィス said:
Yeah, we'll know better with the translation, but I'm putting a lot of this on
Ittosai
. He was fighting maybe the greatest opponent of his life to that point, he just didn't know it, and so wasn't ready. A shame.

I still didn't read Musashi, so I don't know if it's obvious to you guys who have, but according to gottsuiyan's latest post (spoiler pics for 286 on the link),
"that's the legendary tsubamegashi, or 'Swallow Return' (aka 'Swallow reverse' or 'Swallow counter'). The story goes that it was named this because the cut mimicked the motion of a swallow's tail during flight."
.
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Eluvei said:
I still didn't read Musashi, so I don't know if it's obvious to you guys who have, but according to gottsuiyan's latest post (spoiler pics for 286 on the link),
"that's the legendary tsubamegashi, or 'Swallow Return' (aka 'Swallow reverse' or 'Swallow counter'). The story goes that it was named this because the cut mimicked the motion of a swallow's tail during flight."
.

We've seen that already in volume 24 when Kojiro Slashed Kohei(Baiken). It also has been mentioned in Viz manga at the end.
 
Th3Branded0ne said:
We've seen that already in volume 24 when Kojiro Slashed Kohei(Baiken).

Oh, you're right, Branded. But it's not as obvious and depicted in such a detailed "step-by-step" drawing as it is now. And it's in volume 28 I think, not 24.

Th3Branded0ne said:
It also has been mentioned in Viz manga at the end.

Yeah, but I wasn't sure how he performed it. In fact, since he was famous for doing that with the drying pole, I thought the move would only show up when he fought Musashi or something, and it (probably) turned out to be the technique he developed while fighting Koun.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Eluvei said:
Oh, you're right, Branded. But it's not as obvious and depicted in such a detailed "step-by-step" drawing as it is now.

I actually had a problem with the depiction of it in this instance. Seemed like a dramatic embellishment that he'd literally flip his sword in mid air like that rather than turning it in his hands, or better, just turning his wrists. It's also hard to believe it could be so fast with so much complex and downright unnecessary movement, let alone that it would
catch Ito Ittosai by surprise
. Perhaps it was just that, an embellished or exaggerated, "slow motion," depiction for dramatic purposes.

Eluvei said:
Yeah, but I wasn't sure how he performed it.

Apparently nobody is, at least according to his wikipedia entry. =)
Wikipedia said:
Swallow Cut

His favorite technique was both respected and feared throughout feudal Japan. It was called the "Turning Swallow Cut" or "Tsubame Gaeshi" (燕返し lit. "Swallow Reversal / Return"), and was so named because it mimicked the motion of a swallow's tail during flight as observed at Kintaibashi Bridge in Iwakuni. This cut was reputedly so quick and precise that it could strike down a bird in mid-flight. There are no direct descriptions of the technique, but it was compared to two other techniques current at the time: the Ittō-ryū's Kinshi Cho Ohken and the Ganryū Kosetsu To; respectively the two involved fierce and swift cuts downward and then immediately upwards. Hence, the "Turning Swallow Cut" has been reconstructed as a technique involving striking downward from above and then instantly striking again in an upward motion from below. The strike's second phase could be from below toward the rear and then upward at an angle, like an eagle climbing again after swooping down on its prey.
How fitting, pertaining to Vagabond, that it would be compared to a technique of the Ittō-ryū style. :guts:

Eluvei said:
In fact, since he was famous for doing that with the drying pole, I thought the move would only show up when he fought Musashi or something, and it (probably) turned out to be the technique he developed while fighting Koun.

Well, I wonder if we're ever going to see the Drying Pole again (assuming he didn't already retrieve it or start using another sword of that length, which nobody has commented on). Last we saw it had been tossed into the ocean, so unless Kojiro went, or goes, home for a nostalgic swim...
 
グリフィス said:
Perhaps it was just that, an embellished or exaggerated, "slow motion," depiction for dramatic purposes.

Yeah, that's how it looks. It does seem a little odd and not a very Vagabondish way to depict moves, but I'm sure it's just Inoue's way to tell us he performed the move, and that there's no question about it, or something like that... not that there's any way to be sure, as mentioned in the Wikipedia entry. Wow this was confusing.

グリフィス said:
Well, I wonder if we're ever going to see the Drying Pole again (assuming he didn't already retrieve it or start using another sword of that length, which nobody has commented on).

I think it's probably gonna be a new, bigger sword if the Drying Pole ever shows up. Although the old sword was big, he probably grew up since he last saw it, right? I can't be sure.

グリフィス said:
Last we saw it had been tossed into the ocean, so unless Kojiro went, or goes, home for a nostalgic swim...

:ganishka:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Eluvei said:
Yeah, that's how it looks. It does seem a little odd and not a very Vagabondish way to depict moves, but I'm sure it's just Inoue's way to tell us he performed the move, and that there's no question about it, or something like that... not that there's any way to be sure, as mentioned in the Wikipedia entry. Wow this was confusing.

Haha yeah, and reading the translation it does seem clear it was more about
Ittosai
not paying attention than anything
Kojiro
did, other than being great in his own right.
1,000 points! =)

Eluvei said:
I think it's probably gonna be a new, bigger sword if the Drying Pole ever shows up. Although the old sword was big, he probably grew up since he last saw it, right? I can't be sure.

Well, the sword was still relatively large compared to the norm, and Kojiro being so large yet graceful now would seemingly make it a perfect fit for him. Inoue hasn't really mentioned it though since the Kojiro arc... :griffnotevil:
 
"It's only a light wound" :guts:
What would be more than enough for a normal man to give up on the sword is just a light wound to him. So badass.

グリフィス said:
Well, the sword was still relatively large compared to the norm, and Kojiro being so large yet graceful now would seemingly make it a perfect fit for him. Inoue hasn't really mentioned it though since the Kojiro arc... :griffnotevil:

Yeah. I don't expect a Dragon Slayer, but I'd like to see him with a sword at least as big as the one he had as a child.
 

Grail

Feel the funk blast
Well,
so much for all that gunfire speculation!
:troll: I'm kind of glad that it turned out the way it did, actually. Thinking back, it could have been very anticlimactic for
Ittosai
to be so severely injured by anyone else. Judging by his reaction, maybe
Ito
feels the same way? :SK:

Eluvei said:
"It's only a light wound" :guts:
What would be more than enough for a normal man to give up on the sword is just a light wound to him. So badass.
Tell me about it! But I guess that just goes to show how people like Ittosai, Kojiro and Musashi are in a dimension all their own. Their commitment is so absolute that even an otherwise crippling injury is but a... wait, too early for Monty Python jokes? :guts:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Eluvei said:
"It's only a light wound" :guts:
What would be more than enough for a normal man to give up on the sword is just a light wound to him. So badass.

It's not clear by the translation, but he might have also been talking to
Kojiro
there. At least that's what I think.

Eluvei said:
Yeah. I don't expect a Dragon Slayer, but I'd like to see him with a sword at least as big as the one he had as a child.

Me too, I'd actually like him to get the childhood one back, or at least something that reminds him of it.

Grail said:
Well,
so much for all that gunfire speculation!
:troll:
Yeah, I like all the effort we put into alternatives to the obvious, even as the obvious was happening. :badbone:

Grail said:
I'm kind of glad that it turned out the way it did, actually. Thinking back, it could have been very anticlimactic for
Ittosai
to be so severely injured by anyone else. Judging by his reaction, maybe
Ito
feels the same way? :SK:

Yeah, the circle is complete, though I still found it a little unsatisfying (not that I'm unsatisfied, just that the scenario leaves something to be desired for all involved). It's like a compromise; perfectly fitting big picture-wise, though still a little fluky and tragic in the details. "There are no winners."

Grail said:
Tell me about it! But I guess that just goes to show how people like Ittosai, Kojiro and Musashi are in a dimension all their own. Their commitment is so absolute that even an otherwise crippling injury is but a... wait, too early for Monty Python jokes? :guts:

"AYE'M INNNVINSABULL!!"
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Eluvei said:
"It's only a light wound" :guts:
What would be more than enough for a normal man to give up on the sword is just a light wound to him. So badass.

As Griffith said, I think he was refering to
Kojiro
. On that same panel
Ittosai
said "Got greedy, shoulda dodged or something. That's what happens when you try hard, but arent able to truly commit to killing. In other words, I overstimated myself". What I get from this, is that he tried only to subdue
Kojiro
, by not killing him, but because of this he got that wound. But still so composed calling Kojiro "Damn tiger"
Tiger.gif


This should be a nice break for us to keep speculating. I dare to say that I"m hoping to see Otsu on 287.
 
グリフィス said:
It's not clear by the translation, but he might have also been talking to
Kojiro
there. At least that's what I think.
Th3Branded0ne said:
As Griffith said, I think he was refering to
Kojiro
.

You guys are right, I misinterpreted it, I'm sorry. Well, he's still badass!

Th3Branded0ne said:
This should be a nice break for us to keep speculating. I dare to say that I"m hoping to see Otsu on 287.

Yeah, this flashback ended sooner than I thought it would. Now I wonder if we'll see more of
Gonnosuke
, or if that was his farewell from the series. I sure hope not, I wanna see him fighting, and if he still looks stylish!



Sorry for double posting, but good news everyone!

284 has finally shown up, as well as 287.
I won't comment since there's a lot of dialogue and I didn't understand anything worth mentioning about the two episodes. :azan:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
You're forgiven, that was one HELL of a double post, double the Vagabond! :isidro:

So much for 2010, I'm kind of reeling... very cool stuff, some random thoughts: *spoilers, but nothing too big* I like these two episodes even more than the last two. I'm always fascinated with Musashi's between fight revelations, and watching him toss Sloggo away like garbage was sure interesting... btw, I'm not the only one who thinks what Ito reached for and grabbed afterward wasn't just a coincidence, right? :ganishka:

Page 19 of 284, particularly Ito's expression, is a favorite. As for 287, that one is going to be amazing when we can read it, I'm already really looking forward to the Viz translation of this volume. Oh, and
Musashi gets revenge by killing Ittosai's stunt double!? :guts:
 
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