Author Topic: Episode 308  (Read 42404 times)

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Online Walter

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #100 on: October 10, 2009, 06:32:49 PM »
Found an interesting site that lists a few common Sea Myths that could play out here. http://blindkat.hegewisch.net/pirates/Nautical_Myths.html

Particularly:
Quote
Sea Spright (also Sprite): A ghost of the sea. The word usually refers to disembodied spirit, a ghost; a supernatural being, goblin or fairy. They haunt ships that have troubled pasts, such as mutinies or perhaps a ship that had a cruel master who was murdered or was beleived to be in league with the Devil. Some people consider former slaves ships to be haunted because of their past cargo. Some sprights haunt spots where ships had sunk, basically creating "haunted waters”. Occasionally a spright will bring warning of impending doom or warn sailors to stay out of the waters but most tend to be vengeful and or troublesome. The word spright dates back to the 1500s and is an alliteration of the word "spirit".
Sounds a lot like what we just saw happen to the pirates. Although that was quite a bit more direct, as they've literally taken control of that ship.

Another interesting one I thought was:
Quote
St. Elmo's Fire: St. Elmo's Fire is named after the Italian Saint Erasmus (Elmo in English). St. Erasmus is the patron saint of Mediterranean sailors. St. Elmo's Fire is a weather phenominon that occurs when a large amount of atmospehric electricity is present, usually before or after a thunder storm. It is usually seen as a good omen by men at sea, a sign that the very finger tips of God has come down from Heaven to protect the ship from danger.

St. Elmo's Fire appears as blue flame or sphere at the top of a ship's mast or masts, often for minutes at a time. It does not produce heat or cause things to burn. Sometimes the sphere will break up and dance along the yardarms and upper lines of the ship. On ships with more than one masts the flame may appear at the top of each mast or dance about like a blue flame licking the top of of all the sails.

Leave it to Ben Franklin to explain this naturally occurring condition in his work concerning electricity in the air and lightning. Basically as electricity builds up in the atmosphere before or storm or disippates after a storm it is attracted to the top of the masts which act as grounded lightning rods. The elctricity causes the tips to brightly glow in a blue or whitish blue light.

Despite Mr. Franklin's wisdom, the light is still seen today as a sign of good luck or fortune, escpecially when it appears near then en of a tempest. At that time, it is seen as a sign that St. Elmo has watched over the ship through the storm and answered the prayers of her crew.
I can see this or something similar being used to possibly repel the ghost ship, or the creatures in the sea. But, I admit it's pretty farfetched.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Mage

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #101 on: October 10, 2009, 07:58:47 PM »
Looks similar to what Flora showed Schierke in this image (click), what with the twin overhead nostrils shooting out air/water and all. Anyone care to give it a name?

Yeah, I'd say it's dead on.  Kind of looks like this "Devil Whale"



Can't believe it's been 5.5 years since that episode was released. But, I figured that foreshadowing was done for a reason :carcus: .  Looks like what I referred to on the other page (you can barely see it on your link) 5 years ago as "a Kushan with drumsticks as legs" is actually a "Sea Bishop/Bishop Fish/Sea Monk." 



Wonder if we'll see those, too  :troll:


Lots of pics of sea monsters with their historical info/debunking:

http://www.strangescience.net/stsea2.htm
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 08:19:41 PM by Mage »
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #102 on: October 10, 2009, 08:04:46 PM »
In classic statuary, the guys that look a bit like the bigger monster there are technically dolphins, even though they look nothing much like dolphins.  I think the ones with head spigots are whales, even though they look nothing much like whales.  It's one of those things that's useless to google for though, so I don't have much backup info.

No, they were supposed to be whales, like I said before. Those are just inaccurate depictions of what people reported they saw at sea. They can actually be found in some old bestiaries alongside real animals. I wouldn't bother trying to relate them to their real-life counterparts here though.

Now that :chomp: is temporarily out of the picture, we'll get another round of semi-sane berserker Guts, which is my favorite. It seems that's probably what we're gonna see considering how Guts is shown in the alternate volume 34 cover.

The alternate cover of volume 34 is not necessarily telling of what's to come in the next episode. I see it more as a symbolic Guts/Griffith thing disconnected from the current narrative. Rather I'd expect something similar to the color illustration we got in this episode.

Serpico, Guts, and Schierke can wipe out the ghosts, no problem, but then we gotta deal with those damn sea monsters.

Well the ones we saw weren't too close to the ship, but even if the Sea Horse were to be threatened, I think Schierke might be able to repel them without too much difficulty since they're "simple" animals.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #103 on: October 10, 2009, 08:16:01 PM »
I'm not thanking you for these words Rhombaad. To wait until the series is over before we get more artbooks is not a very comforting thought. :azan:

Haha, I'd rather not wait either, but based on what Miura said in his response to us, I don't think we'll see one for a while. Hopefully, he changes his mind.

Hahaha, I think someone has a case of 'stache withdrawal here. :guts: If it happens I'll give you a custom title. :slan:

Sweet! Yeah, I've been eagerly awaiting his official joining of the group ever since that illustration Miura did back in 2000 or 2001 (can't remember which year it was).

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #104 on: October 10, 2009, 08:26:02 PM »
No, they were supposed to be whales, like I said before. Those are just inaccurate depictions of what people reported they saw at sea. They can actually be found in some old bestiaries alongside real animals. I wouldn't bother trying to relate them to their real-life counterparts here though.

Kkkkkind of.  I can't say much because I have no idea how to research it, but the greeks certainly knew what dolphins actually looked like (it's easy to find greco-roman art with far more realistic dolphins) and the stylized guys on roman fountains were certainly intentionally stylized - and at least in that context they are called dolphins, though I don't know the etymology there at all, maybe it's only recent.  The bestiaries like you describe came along much later IIRC, I would guess the artists drawing those bestiaries were just drawing everything they had ever heard of, and that included misinterpretations of fountain dolphins as some other real creature.  This is very wobbly info of course, pinch of salt, etc.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #105 on: October 10, 2009, 08:34:21 PM »
Sweet! Yeah, I've been eagerly awaiting his official joining of the group ever since that illustration Miura did back in 2000 or 2001 (can't remember which year it was).

2001.

the stylized guys on roman fountains were certainly intentionally stylized - and at least in that context they are called dolphins, though I don't know the etymology there at all, maybe it's only recent.

I'm not sure but I think it may come from the French word for it, actually (to describe a fountain spout). I don't really have the time (nor the movitation) to research it more in detail at the moment, but I wouldn't get too excited about it.

The bestiaries like you describe came along much later IIRC, I would guess the artists drawing those bestiaries were just drawing everything they had ever heard of, and that included misinterpretations of fountain dolphins as some other real creature.

Their origin can be traced to Olaüs Magnus' Carta Marina, published in 1539. Those were then repeated by others authors in their own works (Gesner, Münster, Rondelet, etc.). In any case, they do not come from fountain decorations. Here are some pictures for good measure:

Notice the word "balena", which is Latin for "baleen whale".                 And isn't this our friend the sea serpent.

Alongside these you could find sea cows, sea pigs, sea horses (just like the one on Roderick's ship), and other weird amalgamations.

As for the Greeks, it depends. You can find some strange things in Pliny's Naturalis Historia (centaurs, for example), and his work (rather than that of Aristotle) was actually the reference in Europe when the creatures in question were depicted.

Offline D-Scape

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #106 on: October 10, 2009, 10:16:47 PM »
These pirates are starting to remind me of their unfortunate colleagues from Asterix. No matter what they do they end up getting pulverized by their opponents, whether it’s Romans, Vikings or Gauls. The Berserk-pirates are even more unfortunate though. Now they’ve become… pirate-zombies? Evil pirate-spirits? Grotesque mutations like Davy Jones and his crew from the Pirates of the Caribbean flicks? Dead and gone forever?

The ghost-pirate ship also gave me associations to the legends of The Flying Dutchman. Tremble in fear puny mortals. Here comes “The Half Submerged Dutchman”!
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #107 on: October 10, 2009, 10:27:33 PM »
These pirates are starting to remind me of their unfortunate colleagues from Asterix. No matter what they do they end up getting pulverized by their opponents, whether it’s Romans, Vikings or Gauls. The Berserk-pirates are even more unfortunate though. Now they’ve become… pirate-zombies? Evil pirate-spirits? Grotesque mutations like Davy Jones and his crew from the Pirates of the Caribbean flicks? Dead and gone forever?

Hehehe, they make me laugh personally. The boss in particular is perfect. He has absolutely no morals, can't admit when he's lost a battle, and violence is his answer to every problem. Yet he speaks of how pirates derive energy from their indefatigable spirit (in response to a complaint about how they're running low on food). His last line in the panel where he's surrounded by spirits is also very telling: "If ghosts were really here, we should have already been possessed and killed, shouldn't we?!"

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Online Walter

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #108 on: October 10, 2009, 11:24:23 PM »
The ending is a big hint at what's to come:

Quote
Roderick: Sorry but I might need your help for this battle.
Isidro: Ohh! Finally it’s our turn?!
Isidro: Leave it to us! We’ll do it in reward of boarding this big ship!
Puck: Arrogant kid!
Ivalera: Ehhh, troublesome work.
Roderick: If it’s needed
Roderick: (I'll ask a favor of) our guest in the cabin as well...
Sounds as if the whole party will be drawn into the battle, unlike last time where Roderick skillfully took care of things himself. And Guts is already prepared, having overheard it all. Awesome  :guts: I can see him firing the cannon to make an opening in the ship, then boring into it like a giant screw.  :chomp:

Anyway, with that, next episode is sure to be great.
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Offline Jaze1618

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #109 on: October 10, 2009, 11:42:53 PM »
This episode did a great job of setting up suspense for the next one. Great job Miura!

I would like to echo the administrator formally known as Griffith in regards to the people who originally had a cow when the pirates returned for round 2. I think an animated ship possessed by the undead is the last thing people were expecting after all the living/breathing beasts have been showcased.

As already mentioned this is a great throwback to the possessed tree from Volume 14.

See you guys in 2 weeks.

Offline TheBranded1

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #110 on: October 10, 2009, 11:52:59 PM »
2. I think an animated ship possessed by the undead is the last thing people were expecting after all the living/breathing beasts have been showcased.



Well, there was someone who thought of the ghost ship concept.Read this please.


Anyway, moving into the future, the "At Sea Arc."  From Roderick's line "...our last look at land for a while", we very well may be spending several months with the Band on the ocean.  What do you guys expect? While everyone and their mom has speculated on an origin/retelling for Guts and Azan to the Band, MY money is on a GHOST SHIP [/i][/size]:isidro: 

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #111 on: October 11, 2009, 12:17:59 AM »
Well, there was someone who thought of the ghost ship concept.Read this please.


Ok, I am going to go back on my original statement. Namely: instead of seeing you guys in two weeks, I will see you now, and I'll raise you the following:

Yes, you're right that Walter had predicted it, after all the living/breathing beasts were showcased back in June/July. Let me attempt to cover my tracks and point out that I said people. :rakshas:

---

Now regardless of whose right or wrong (I can be wrong by default). Walter, I am curious to know if and or why you were actually expecting a ghost ship, or if you were saying it for dramatic effect or other reasons.

I do believe the majority or readers will not expect a ghost ship, and that those who read the last few episodes in succession for the first time, especially will not be expecting  a ghost ship in this implementation.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 03:08:33 AM by Jaze1618 »

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #112 on: October 11, 2009, 12:28:38 AM »
Hahaha, Branded, while I appreciate you trying to defend my honor or something, I had no basis for saying a Ghost Ship would appear back in 2006. It was a random guess, just based on how Miura likes to use supernatural-evil things in his stories.  But in the context of how the world has changed, it's really quite a bit more different and complex than a ghost ship simply emerging from fog. It's the culmination of the pirate ship becoming possessed by ghosts.

I do believe the majority or readers will not expect a ghost ship, and that those who read the last few chapters in succession for the first time, especially will not be expecting  a ghost ship in this implementation.
It's EPISODE, not chapter. We are afterall in the beginning of a new chapter: Elf Island. So would you say it's Berserk: Fantasia Arc, Elf Island Chapter, Chapter 308: Ghost Ship? I don't think so :miura:
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Offline Chaos

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #113 on: October 11, 2009, 01:15:16 AM »

Exactly. Dragon Slayer to the face of that ghost ship. Then a cannon shot.

Ahahahaha, I like it! Gotta get the dust off the D.S., for sure!  :guts:

Nice to see the brand still reacting to the presence of evil spirits in its usual manner (at least for the time being). I was thinking since the merger, it might react differently, maybe oozing slightly all of the time.

Our boy might be in trouble if the ship decides to submerge itself while he's in mid rampage. I hope he gets to the face of the ship before that happens  :troll:
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Offline Slan_wings

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #114 on: October 11, 2009, 01:40:39 AM »
 Of course the dead spirits could also possess roderick's ship and have  both ships collide then have to swim to the island. Since I don't think Guts could stop Roderick's ship being possessed since Guts & Casca are a torch to the dead.  :magni:
 

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #115 on: October 11, 2009, 01:46:19 AM »
Of course the dead spirits could also possess roderick's ship and have  both ships collide then have to swim to the island. Since I don't think Guts could stop Roderick's ship being possessed since Guts & Casca are a torch to the dead. 
 
Maybe, but Roderick's ship isn't festering with the weight of death and evil like the pirates'. It's not like the possession was random. They were probably drawn there.
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Online Griffith

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #116 on: October 11, 2009, 01:58:01 AM »
I would like to echo the administrator formally known as Griffith in regards to the people who originally had a cow when the pirates returned for round 2.
Yup, and I'm known as Griffith again, just totally hardcore legit written in Japanese now. :griffnotevil:

chapters

BUSTED!



When new episodes come out, we should censor the word "chapter" with the code for the above image. Just for the day. =)

Maybe, but Roderick's ship isn't festering with the weight of death and evil like the pirates'. It's not like the possession was random. They were probably drawn there.

Yeah, it goes beyond mere contact, the foundation for that kind of possession and presence probably needs to be pretty strong for it to take.


Anyway, I love the idea of the Ghost Ship moving around under water like a submarine or shark. :guts: :chomp:

Offline Blaze of Glory

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #117 on: October 11, 2009, 04:41:56 AM »
A many people have said I get the feeling that the pirates have become like the crew of the flying Dutchman  :ganishka:

Offline puella

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #118 on: October 11, 2009, 07:51:36 AM »
Too bad the boss and his crew finally got possessed/killed. :judo: I like the boss, especially his conception about his "business". He considers selling kids to be a decent and legal job. :ganishka: A man of conviction, always cussing but charismatic, which makes his men obey him though he's just a vicious villain. I think the reason the ghost ship is going after the Sea Horse may be that the boss' strong will and desire for revenge prevailed over death. He hasn't showed up much but I think he'll be remembered as a character who stood out.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #119 on: October 11, 2009, 08:00:45 AM »
Since I don't think Guts could stop Roderick's ship being possessed since Guts & Casca are a torch to the dead.

I think Guts and the others could actually stop it, and besides, he and Casca are still wearing wards that hide them from evil.

Online Griffith

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #120 on: October 11, 2009, 08:43:36 AM »
I think the reason the ghost ship is going after the Sea Horse may be that the boss' strong will and desire for revenge prevailed over death.

I thought the same thing when I read this line of your lovely translation:

Boss: That fucking stud-horse of Ys, I'll chase that ship to the end of the world and definitely crush it into wooden scraps on the sea.

Reminded me of Captain Ahab, and in a twisted sense, it's like he's being being granted his wish.

He hasn't showed up much but I think he'll be remembered as a character who stood out.

Oh, I'm still hoping he's going to make another appearance... in a new form, of course. :zodd:

Offline Doc

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #121 on: October 11, 2009, 11:58:10 AM »
I wonder what state the buccaneers are gonna be in, if they're still around. I'd imagine shrivelled up zombies, since the ship was losing a lot of blood.  :SK:

Offline Jhot obs

Re: Episode 308
« Reply #122 on: October 11, 2009, 12:27:54 PM »
One thought that comes to mind looking at this episode: when people are possessed by spirits, which I'm assuming happened with the pirates, they usually turn into super strong bloodthirsty savages ala the pagans of Albion. That said, I'd hope Isidro would be more aggressive with them (like how Mule was) back in Vritannis now that they're no longer human. It would be great for him to put experiences fighting trolls & Kushan familiars & have them tested out here, especially if this is what's going to be expected back on the mainland. As for right now:

:isidro: "Holy shit! It's you guys again!"

Same for Azan & finally fighting alongside everyone. Should be fun to read, as I don't remember him having that much trouble against the Bakiraka & possessed pagans in their orgy lair. Not to mention his reaction, along with Roderick's crew's, to seeing Isidro, Serpico & maybe Farnese using their fetishes in battle. Overall, I think this whole exercise of the pirates/ghost ship will be to show how well/cool Azan fits in with the group & (hopefully) how much Isidro is coming closer to becoming his ideal swordsman. That, and of course, how well Guts is doing.

By the way, even if the group boards the ships & kills all the baddies, won't that still leave a floating possessed ship after the Sea Horse? Or maybe it's just a matter of time before the Captain Shark Rider gets used for firewood or given a Viking's funeral. :troll:
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 01:12:00 PM by Jhot obs »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #123 on: October 11, 2009, 12:32:01 PM »
the ship was losing a lot of blood.  :SK:

What we see when it submerges isn't necessarily blood. It looks similar to Daiba seen by Schierke within the armor in episode 270.


Online Griffith

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Re: Episode 308
« Reply #124 on: October 11, 2009, 07:26:00 PM »
What's interesting about that in context of the entire page is that Schierke is actually looking past Guts' distorted vision inside the armor, which she recognizes earlier in the episode, to see what's actually there:

Daiba, the dark angel!

Or...

I'm not sure how that relates, since it's made pretty clear, from the incident with the crocodiles on the beach, that the armor doesn't just show you a manifestation of evil that's actually there, but literally will distort whatever is there to make it more frightening and threatening. Obviously, what we're seeing with the ghost ship isn't a distortion, but the evil actually emanating from it, so it's probably just a similar technique to express that.