Where is the real Caska ?

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
I was, on a italian forum , following a classic topic about the rape of Caska by Phempt when a thought did strike me.
What if the physical manifestation of the rape was only the rappresentation of something that was happening on the mental plane? In other word what if it was the mind of Phempt that was really possessing the minds of Caska and her son? Remember that the spiritual world( where I do believe the eclipse did really take place) is the world of the mind..

This would explain many things. It could explain Caska insanity.I could explain the real genesis of the demon child, that was really a part of the mind of Griffith in the body of the son of Caska, and the rebirth of Grifith would have really been simply a transformation from a misshappen body to a beautiful one.But indeed a part of Griffith would have been already on the hearth since the rape of Caska, in her body, and in the body of the demon child. On the other hand a part of the mind of Caska could have entered in the essence of Griffith-Phempt in the process.

And this could explain many other things. The heart that was beating in the body of Griffith on the hill of the swords while Guts was battling Zodd could be really been the heart of Caska beating. It could be her mind (the part in Griffith body) to have prompted him to save her soon afterwards. It was really a act of self-preservation.

And this had me to think another thing. What if the two of them are really so linked that Griffith can exist in our world, only if Caska is alive ? Guts could be really protecting his worst enemy now. And what if the only way to defeat Griffith is to kill Caska ? And this could also explain the words of Flora that by keeping Caska with him, Guts could one day save his own life...
 

puella

Berserk forever
nice and deep speculation.
Griffith(Femto) takes up and controls Caska's mind...
Can it be said Femto killed Caska's spirit by raping her brutally? I think only her body survived the eclipse.
Then what about Guts?
If Caska and Griffith are linked that way, Guts also should be linked to reborn Griffith considering Guts is demon child's father, shouldn't he? ::)

**Anyway, it's definite that Caska is a key to get Guts to Griffith.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
roberto999 said:
I was, on a italian forum , following a classic topic about the rape of Caska by Phempt when a thought did strike me.
What if the physical manifestation of the rape was only the rappresentation of something that was happening on the mental plane? In other word what if it was the mind of Phempt that was really possessing the minds of Caska and her son? Remember that the spiritual world( where I do believe the eclipse did really take place) is the world of the mind..

This would explain many things. It could explain Caska insanity.I could explain the real genesis of the demon child, that was really a part of the mind of Griffith in the body of the son of Caska, and the rebirth of Grifith would have really been simply a transformation from a misshappen body to a beautiful one.But indeed a part of Griffith would have been already on the hearth since the rape of Caska, in her body, and in the body of the demon child. On the other hand a part of the mind of Caska could have entered in the essence of Griffith-Phempt in the process.

And this could explain many other things. The heart that was beating in the body of Griffith on the hill of the swords while Guts was battling Zodd could be really been the heart of Caska beating. It could be her mind (the part in Griffith body) to have prompted him to save her soon afterwards. It was really a act of self-preservation.
Very cool, well-thought out idea but . . . How does it fit with Casca's momentary "awakening" in Berserk: Millennium Falcon (DC Game)?
And this could also explain the words of Flora that by keeping Caska with him, Guts could one day save his own life...
That could be . . . But I took it that Casca is the one thing protecting him from going over the threshold and becoming totally engulfed in darkness.
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Well Walter, you tell us about the DC game but ther's also points of lucidity in the manga ( volume 22 and 23 ). I'm thinking right now of the time when she almost got raped ( in volume 23, there are so many attemps of raping her !!^^ ) and had a remembering view of the Eclipse, then she got the strenght to survive those thieves by herself. I think it is a proof that Casca isn't dead, although Guts is really doubtful about it, and develops more and more hatred about the Trio situation ...
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re:Where is the real Casca ?

I agree with that, Guillaume.

It's hard to predict what will happen, but I think Casca will save Guts' life in a more "epic" way. I believe that when she finally recovers her mind, she'll be the one helping Guts in a reversal of roles.
 

Majin_Tenshi

The can opener went bye-bye...
I've heard it mentioned around here that Berserk is supposed to have a happy ending...
Even though Guts has lightened up quite a bit, he still hates Grifith. He wants revenge. If your theory is true, then if he takes that revenge, Caska would probably die. That does not result in a happy ending.
I think that she was severly traumatized, nothing more. The small degree of recovery she has demonstrated seems to deny your theory.
As for what Flora said, I don't know what it was so I can't comment.
 
holy sh*t

well this is big, and im having trouble finding the words, but...

this would explain, like you said, why griff saved caska on the hill, but also provides an understanding on why caska was able to kill her attempted rapists.

if what you said is true, that the griffith we know now is simply an illusion and he is really embodied in the mind of caska, that means that he could easily monitor and control caska, adn he could keep track of what happens with guts, and could also protect caska if need be (for instance: with the attempted rapists, and on the hill).

but if griffith needs caska to live why does griffith have physical body. could he just be a manifestation of caska's mind, and not really there.

this could also prove to be an explaintion of how griffith dissappeared adn reappeared to dodge those arrows(i dont remember what chapter).

but if griffith is just a manifestation of caska's mind and caska's mind is dead, who is controlling her mind.....femto?

femto is doing all of this from the nexus? could explain the collection of spirits and griffith's unhuman power

i hope that made sense, i know its out there, but hopefully its not 'unbelievable'

oh, and couldnt flora have meant both
 

Begemot

STOP UNDRESSING ME WITH YOUR EYES!
I think Griffith has to have a corpeal body, since an ordinary human like Mule can interact with him.
 
T

temporary

Guest
I think thats ultra-cool, which may have come about because Caska was so into Griffith's dream that she is part of that dream now, so yeah, Griffiths OWNZ Caska. ;)
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Aww... I think you've rally gone too far ! Griffith and Casca owning each other's minds ( or something like that ). It isn't plausible ! I think Griffith would react differently if he knew anything about Casca and Guts
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re:Where is the real Casca ?

Wow that's what I call a theory :eek:, but if Griffith is controlling Casca's mind, why is she terrified when remembering the rape? That was most likely a nice moment to him...

About the arrow-dodging trick part, that's not in the manga but in the anime, the Snake Baron does this too, when Guts rushes him (the baron is on his horse), he hits nothing and the baron knocks him in the back. Most probably not meaningful though.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re:Where is the real Casca ?

That's true, but to me Griffith reborn is just femto's mind in Griffith's body (with less power), he has become an evil being, there's no way back I guess. And Femto is what Griffith chose to be when Idea asked him.

Also, what Casca is remembering of the eclipse is from her point of view, so that's her mind, or maybe Griffith got her memories, but that's hard to believe.
 
Guillaume said:
Aww... I think you've rally gone too far ! Griffith and Casca owning each other's minds ( or something like that ). It isn't plausible ! I think Griffith would react differently if he knew anything about Casca and Guts

griffith and caska dont own each other's minds. griffith is living a concious life as the the present-day griff we know, and the same time a sub-concious life in caska's mind. this allows him to impede her higher-level of thinking giving her the appearance of being 'retarded' (i wasnt sure what word to use). but his presence isnt strong enough, or he makes it so that her motor skills, and her most basic functions of life are inhibited.

regarding caska's rememberance of the eclipse:
i feel that if griff is a presence in her mind he would lay dormant the parts that allow her to be the caska we knew and loved. her memories that allow her to be her are still there, but they are asleep so to say.
if a severe enough trauma was to occur, or a certain event that triggers some memories to occur, you could theoritcally(sp?) catch a glimpse of teh old caska. think of it as a way to break out of the shell that griff put her in

this may be a hint as how to break her out of her amnesia-like state
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Casca was traumatized because of being raped by the man she worshipped ...
You know : simplicity is not poverty. I think you're searching things too deeply that doesn't exist just because you want to see something ( hey i'm not i'm not clear about this, but i think Casca's mental state isn't supernatural at all )
 

All_4_Yume

Yume Chaser
Guillaume said:
Casca was traumatized because of being raped by the man she worshipped ...
You know : simplicity is not poverty. I think you're searching things too deeply that doesn't exist just because you want to see something ( hey i'm not i'm not clear about this, but i think Casca's mental state isn't supernatural at all )

Yeah I agree, Caska just good old fashioned snapped. If anything would crack your sanity it would be the all the ill shit that happened in the Eclipse. Do you honestly think you'd actually still be sane after surviving something like that?

Although my theory why she snapped is because in true Caska fashion she realized this was just a way for Griffith to get back at Guts. She realized she'd become the tool she wanted to be, realized how lame her reason for living was, and that's what broke her. Sometimes you need to watch what you wish for, which I think is one of the bigger themes of Berserk.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re:Where is the real Casca ?

Although my theory why she snapped is because in true Casca fashion she realized this was just a way for Griffith to get back at Guts. She realized she'd become the tool she wanted to be, realized how lame her reason for living was, and that's what broke her. Sometimes you need to watch what you wish for, which I think is one of the bigger themes of Berserk.

Exactly what I think, you just have to see the way Femto looks at Guts when he rapes her... IMHO that's far enough to make someone insane.
 
personally i dont know

the whole caska disembodied theory (thats what im calling this) its too far out there, like most speculation, its all in good fun. but you guys are right, its far too complicated.

but i dont see how what happend just during the eclipse could put caska in the state shes in now. i know its traumatizing, and sick, and demonic, and unimaginable, but do you remember how caska was. caska was argueably one of the strongest members of the band of the hawk. she let out her emotions more than anyone else, but dont mistake that for weakness. she dealt with wyald, and though she didnt have alot of time after that, she was perfectly fine with that, it was just like fighting with any other enemy.

guts lived through the eclipse, and agrueably endured more pain and suffering than anyone else that was there, and guts is still sane (for the most part).

i simply dont see how the eclipse could be so traumatic on someone as strong as caska that it would deminish her mental state to that of a retard, who is incapable of speech.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re:Where is the real Casca ?

Well, Femto is still a demon lord, if being near him equals horrible pain to branded ones, what about being raped by him? And while corrupting the foetus he may have also caused her some unseen trauma that adds to the rest.
 

Majin_Tenshi

The can opener went bye-bye...
i simply dont see how the eclipse could be so traumatic on someone as strong as caska that it would deminish her mental state to that of a retard, who is incapable of speech.

Caska wasn't so mentaly stable before the eclipse. If you'll all remember, she nearly let herself fall off a cliff, thinking that Guts could take care of the hawks. The stress of leading the hawks, especialy under those conditions, was too much for her.

The eclipse destroyed the last threads of her will and sanity.
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Well I agree with all_4_yume, aaz and majin tenshi ...
Krebs says it isn't logical that she ran insane because she endured the brutality of Wild. The thing is that it is Femto/Griffith that was the cause of her suffering in the Eclipse, the 'angel' who had saved her from aristocrat raper was turning into the same kind, even worse should I say.
Imagine that she lived all over hard years ( especially the one when she lead the Hawks in order to save Griffith from the Tower of Conviction ) with only one thing at the very beginning : Griffith was the spark that made her live on.
When she decided to be with Guts, remember how she felt about Griffith ... and in the end she realized Griffith knew about them and wanted revenge.
 
D

Drachenfels

Guest
Just seeing all your friends getting slaughtered and being raped by the man you worshipped is enough to make you insane. There is no "Griffiths mind in Kaska's brain" thingie.
 
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