Author Topic: Episode 312  (Read 47781 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Death May Die

  • Ask me about Avatar's sales!
  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 764
  • Karma: 11
  • Gender: Male
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2010, 10:10:37 AM »
You know, reading this episode (and the previous one) I can't help but be amazed at Miura's talent for creating tangible atmospheres, specifically in this case how he depicts the tavern. It's just wonderfully executed, and it reminded me of the ball in volume 30 when the tigers attack and the lights go off.

I also love the little shot of the sea cucumber tentacles rising from the water on page 14. Anyway, I was thinking back about the wave that sends Isidro down on page 2 yesterday, and I'm wondering if it's not something Isma did herself to prevent him from going further into the cave.

You know what makes you think so? It's her eyes. Their roundness. :slan:

Yeah, she's definitely not transformed; I don't even know how one could think that given the way it's brought up.

I'm assuming they're on the right island. I'm just speculating here but Schierke's vision reminds me of her experiences summoning the element gods in the other layers. Her vision didn't really reflect a being in the present world, but something within another layer. (She hasn't reacted like this with other apostles has she, visions and such?)

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18426
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2010, 10:44:45 AM »
I'm assuming they're on the right island.

The right island for what? It's not Skellig, if that's what you're implying.

I'm just speculating here but Schierke's vision reminds me of her experiences summoning the element gods in the other layers. Her vision didn't really reflect a being in the present world, but something within another layer.

You mean summoning spirits from the astral world? Anyway, like I said, she's just astrally seeing Isma's true nature.

(She hasn't reacted like this with other apostles has she, visions and such?)

The girl is not an apostle.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9698
  • Karma: 230
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2010, 05:08:02 PM »
You know, reading this episode (and the previous one) I can't help but be amazed at Miura's talent for creating tangible atmospheres, specifically in this case how he depicts the tavern. It's just wonderfully executed, and it reminded me of the ball in volume 30 when the tigers attack and the lights go off.

Same, that's why that's my favorite part, along with Guts just sitting down casually with a large group of friends and acquaintances, like a normal person (even the monsters they're sitting near are just being like normal strangers haha). Anyway, what amazes me is how much Miura has effectively established/accomplished in an episode and a half. The beginning of the last ep was still dealing with pirate aftermath, and it now already feels like we're knee deep in this island mystery when it really only just began, out of the blue, two weeks ago (about two minutes in Berserk fan time =).

Offline feralotter

Re: Episode 312
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2010, 12:57:44 AM »
How can you not love the feel of this island. Now with bizarre interactions with villagers. Fantastic.

And the two sitting at the table just eating raw fish? WTF? I think that furthers the case for the towns people being possessed by the sea god, like the pirates, and they are acting as extensions of 'it' including apparently it's dietary habits.

Indulge me in wild speculation - could this be a case where they find it not worth going to the mat and fighting the monster on this island?  Now that the layers have merged, there is a large population of other-worldy beings with their own agenda roaming the earth.  Guts and co. can't possibly take on each one they meet that appears to have dubious motives. There isn't clear indication (yet) that the place is downright "evil" like Qliphoth but rather...strange...albeit sinister. Maybe it just wants to eat fish, not humans. Sleeping dogs and such.

Probably not though. I don't know if we've seen a substantiated astral being engaging in self-restraint and moderation, enough to warrant a pass, besides the innately good ones.  :chomp:  :puck:

Besides, maybe the gang takes on a Miura-creation inspired by Cthulhu? :drool:

Offline D-Scape

Re: Episode 312
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2010, 01:19:13 PM »
You know, reading this episode (and the previous one) I can't help but be amazed at Miura's talent for creating tangible atmospheres, specifically in this case how he depicts the tavern.

I was impressed with the tavern as well. Not a place I'd want to have dinner anytime soon. Its ominous atmosphere, along with the fish-eating couple at the table reminded me of a creepier version of Vincent van Gogh's famous The Potato Eaters:



Now I'm tempted to paint a parody picture called The Fish Eaters!
After school my hair took me to the station... because it wanted a larger audience.

Offline Theoden

Re: Episode 312
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2010, 02:27:57 PM »
Well, I have to say I really enjoy this episode's atmosphere. The tone of this episode has something great, kind of little entairtainment. Isidro seems to have a good time  :carcus: with this mysterious girl, and the other part of the crew seems to get a little rest/peace for now.

But actually, it's like some joyful moments before something terrible happens. I don't know why, (maybe because of the inhabitants of the island are strange and "werehuman," or because of this girl, or also this strange thing in this recess, that are like omens of what is to come, some potential dangers) but I feel something terrible is going to happen... :femto:

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18426
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2010, 02:34:21 PM »
And the two sitting at the table just eating raw fish? WTF? I think that furthers the case for the towns people being possessed by the sea god, like the pirates, and they are acting as extensions of 'it' including apparently it's dietary habits.

The case doesn't really need furthering though. They don't look very normal. :ganishka:

Indulge me in wild speculation - could this be a case where they find it not worth going to the mat and fighting the monster on this island?

I speculated about that a few days ago and yeah, it would be interesting, but the thing is, I'm not sure the Sea God itself will want to let them go. If it is indeed what was controlling the ghost ship, then it will probably have a grudge. Besides, Isma clearly tells Isidro it's an evil entity that sinks ships and eats humans.

There isn't clear indication (yet) that the place is downright "evil" like Qliphoth but rather...strange...albeit sinister. Maybe it just wants to eat fish, not humans. Sleeping dogs and such.

The island itself isn't anything like the Qliphoth. The Qliphoth was an astral territory whereas this place is apparently "just" under the influence of the malevolent creature known as the sea god. Said sea god is definitely described as being downright evil however (see my previous paragraph).

Offline Deathbringer

Re: Episode 312
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2010, 08:23:26 PM »
Wow, not only is Isma magical in nature but she's definitely some sort of Astral entity that's related to the sea.

Cthulhu Berserk version will probably be the thing that is turning humans into those seaweed looking guys. Loved the atmosphere in the inn. Still having a massive Lovecraftian vibe from this village where something is obviously wrong but the initial impression is weird but still somehow passes as seemingly normal.

Offline IgnusDei

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • Karma: 0
  • mmh-hmm good.
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2010, 06:15:54 AM »
Awww...Isidro's got himself a sweetheart! This being Berserk, though, it's only gonna end in heartbreak.

Gory, bloody, screaming heartbreak.

Anyhoo, i suspect Isma to be another magic user, specializing in water magic. She's got some knowledge of medicine (which wouldn't be of much use to her if she were a spirit) and she's got a charm on her door with four cardinal points. IIRC, that's common symbolism in all forms of magic.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18426
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2010, 09:15:39 AM »
Anyhoo, i suspect Isma to be another magic user, specializing in water magic. She's got some knowledge of medicine (which wouldn't be of much use to her if she were a spirit) and she's got a charm on her door with four cardinal points. IIRC, that's common symbolism in all forms of magic.

I would agree with you if it weren't for the last panel in this episode. What Schierke sees when she looks at her... Not just the result of being a magic user as far as I can tell. I think there's more to her than that.

Offline IgnusDei

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • Karma: 0
  • mmh-hmm good.
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2010, 11:41:55 AM »
Well, Flora herself turned into a fire elemental. Isma could've been powerful enough to turn herself into some kind of sea sprite or water elemental. Of course, that leaves the matter of her age, but i couldn't address that without some serious fanwanking.

Offline Skeleton

  • Falconian
  • Of the Nexus
  • *****
  • Posts: 730
  • Karma: 71
  • Gender: Male
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2010, 12:25:39 PM »
What intrigues me the most about Isma is she seems to be specifically fish/aquatic life-"themed" instead of being associated with the element of water in general like, for example, the water spirit that Schierke summons in Enoch Village.  The fact that it's specifically "fish" that are swirling around her instead of, lets say, water or undines is what gets me. What does that mean?  I have no idea.  I might just be thinking about it a little too hard.  Of course, I'd probaby have said the same thing about the frog-horse Kelpie, but even the Kelpie was associated with water almost immediately upon its introduction.

Maybe Isma is simply under the control of the sea god, who has already been associated with aquatic life via the sea cucumbers, to lure unsuspecting "guests" into the town or island.  Maybe what Schierke sees is this controlling power over her.  Or maybe Isma is a construct created by the sea god to lure people in.  To take it one step further into insanity, that could support my theory (read: wish) that the sea god turns out to be based on the monkfish, specifically the anglerfish.  Just like how the anglerfish has that growth to lure prey into its mouth, so too does the monkfish-like sea god lure people to it.   :ganishka:  I'm not serious, of course.  But the possibilities are limitless.  Did I mention how excited I am to see how this unfolds?  :ganishka:

Offline geo jee

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • "Almost black..slightly white swordsman."
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2010, 04:32:05 PM »
I would just love to find out what happens next with Guts.. :guts:
I mean he's starting to act like a superhuman bodyguard..or something going into danger alone and not letting Roderick comes along..such a hero.
He's (I bet) going to start a massacre and I love him when he goes Berserk  :ubik:, but what wonders me that he no longer senses the black dog no more even since that nightmare, which starting to make me question when will it come out again. :chomp:
"Tell him that the black swordsman has come...That's all."

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18426
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2010, 05:14:33 PM »
Well, Flora herself turned into a fire elemental. Isma could've been powerful enough to turn herself into some kind of sea sprite or water elemental.

All we know is that Flora appeared as a spirit after her death and raised a wall of flames to protect Schierke and her friends. In the present case Isma is clearly something special on the astral level despite looking like a normal human to the untrained eye. I'm not sure the two are really comparable.

What intrigues me the most about Isma is she seems to be specifically fish/aquatic life-"themed" instead of being associated with the element of water in general like, for example, the water spirit that Schierke summons in Enoch Village.  The fact that it's specifically "fish" that are swirling around her instead of, lets say, water or undines is what gets me. What does that mean?  I have no idea.  I might just be thinking about it a little too hard.

Nope, I'd say you're thinking about it just hard enough. We talked about it a bit earlier and

even the Kelpie was associated with water almost immediately upon its introduction.

In fact it was first introduced while rising out of a river. :iva:

Maybe Isma is simply under the control of the sea god, who has already been associated with aquatic life via the sea cucumbers, to lure unsuspecting "guests" into the town or island. Maybe what Schierke sees is this controlling power over her.  Or maybe Isma is a construct created by the sea god to lure people in.

I highly doubt that considering how she's been behaving so far. On the contrary, she protected Isidro from the Sea God and seriously warned him about it.

To take it one step further into insanity, that could support my theory (read: wish) that the sea god turns out to be based on the monkfish, specifically the anglerfish.

That would be a cool design to base a monster on, but I hope the Sea God turns out to be something really insane. :guts:

I would just love to find out what happens next with Guts.. :guts:
I mean he's starting to act like a superhuman bodyguard..or something going into danger alone and not letting Roderick comes along..such a hero.

Well it's not like Roderick would be a big help in any case...

what wonders me that he no longer senses the black dog no more even since that nightmare, which starting to make me question when will it come out again. :chomp:

You remember what the Beast of Darkness told him at that time, right? It explains why it doesn't show itself anymore. Not that there have been many opportunities for it to manifest itself since then anyway.

Offline geo jee

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • "Almost black..slightly white swordsman."
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2010, 07:22:27 PM »
Well it's not like Roderick would be a big help in any case...

I know, but to see Guts starting to care that much and to protect, it's like GOLDEN AGE all over again.

You remember what the Beast of Darkness told him at that time, right? It explains why it doesn't show itself anymore. Not that there have been many opportunities for it to manifest itself since then anyway.

I know Beast of Darkness told him that he/it will wait for an opportunity of a lifetime when all things crashes down and everyloved ones would die, but it used to come out whenever Guts fought, and the fight with the sea monster was an opportunity to me at least, that's all. 

P.S.love that new Avatar of yours, Aaz. It's so cute.
and I don't understand a single word of Kanji/Japanese so..what is the meaning below the Avatar.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 08:06:11 PM by geo jee »
"Tell him that the black swordsman has come...That's all."

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15896
  • Karma: 475
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2010, 07:34:05 PM »
I know, but to see Guts starting to care that much and to protect, it's like GOLDEN AGE all over again.
I think you're reading that strong sentiment into him though. Seems to me that Guts was very curious and dubious of these creepy guys in the Inn and just probably wanted to check it out. Who better to, really? It's not like he's directly defending Roderick from an attack or anything (and not that he wouldn't).

He may also have been sick of Magnifico's whining and rambling, and wanted a chance to get away :magni:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline geo jee

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • "Almost black..slightly white swordsman."
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2010, 07:51:20 PM »
I think you're reading that strong sentiment into him though. Seems to me that Guts was very curious and dubious of these creepy guys in the Inn and just probably wanted to check it out. Who better to, really? It's not like he's directly defending Roderick from an attack or anything (and not that he wouldn't).

He may also have been sick of Magnifico whining and rambling, and wanted a chance to get away :magni:

That was also my first thought, but I remembered how he used to be with casca and judo, and to see him doing that with roderick, it's like he finally accepted them into his pack of comrades, sort of speak.

As for Magnifico I love to see him fighting one of those villagers, I mean that would be hilarious. :serpico:

and I love to see what exactly is he going to find there, may be the source of Evil that is covering that island.
but I know that we are going to see an Epic fight next, so sad for this break. :judo:
"Tell him that the black swordsman has come...That's all."

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18426
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2010, 08:08:02 PM »
I know, but to see Guts starting to care that much and to protect, it's like GOLDEN AGE all over again.

He's not really caring so much right now. Sounds to me like you're looking for the "Episode 221" thread.

I know Beast of Darkness told him that he/it will wait for an opportunity of a lifetime when all things crashes down and everyloved ones would die, but it used to come out whenever Guts fought, and the fight with the sea monster was an opportunity to me at least, that's all.

That's not exactly what it says, and you've missed the point if you don't understand why that talk implied that the Beast would not be a problem for a while. As for the fight against the sea cucumber, considering how quickly and easily Guts dealt with it there was hardly any opportunity for the armor to create problems.

to see him doing that with roderick, it's like he finally accepted them into his pack of comrades, sort of speak.

Guts was rather friendly with Roderick right from the start, if that's who you mean by "them".

I love to see what exactly is he going to find there, may be the source of Evil that is covering that island.

The "source of evil" is the Sea God.

Offline geo jee

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • "Almost black..slightly white swordsman."
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2010, 08:21:58 PM »
He's not really caring so much right now. Sounds to me like you're looking for the "Episode 221" thread.
That's not exactly what it says, and you've missed the point if you don't understand why that talk implied that the Beast would not be a problem for a while. As for the fight against the sea cucumber, considering how quickly and easily Guts dealt with it there was hardly any opportunity for the armor to create problems.
Guts was rather friendly with Roderick right from the start, if that's who you mean by "them".
The "source of evil" is the Sea God.

I mean, it's hard for Guts to be friendly with others, I always saw him a bit of a loner from the start, so whenever I see him act like that I'm touched.

As for the point of the Beast, enlight me if you know something else, please.

I know Guts was friendly with Roderick from the start, which is really strange to me as Guts has trouble accepting new people (I know he accepted him because he has a ship) yet he was nice with him which is unusual if you see how he treated Farnese, Serpico and Schierke, not to mention the monkey.

And the Sea God, don't you think it's that Isma girl, I mean it's more than an apostle or even a witch, yet I believe she's a good person.
and if she's a good person and the sea goddess, that would make the Evil Source another thing entirely.
"Tell him that the black swordsman has come...That's all."

Offline Bekul

Re: Episode 312
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2010, 08:28:24 PM »
And the Sea God, don't you think it's that Isma girl, I mean it's more than an apostle or even a witch, yet I believe she's a good person.

More than an apostle or witch? What makes you think that? That a strange and sinister Od is covering the island? While Schierke sees her as something clearly more than she appears to be, that's not yet a solid confirmation that the strange Od is from her specifically.

Offline Dar Klink

  • Falconian
  • Of the Vortex
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
  • Karma: 28
  • Gender: Male
  • Last Guardian when? - CyberKlink 20XX before dying
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2010, 08:36:22 PM »

As for the point of the Beast, enlight me if you know something else, please.

The Beast talked to Guts and told him he was going to lay dormant basically
Quote from: Beast of Darkness

The Beast of Darkness: For now it's OK, I'll follow you
The Beast of Darkness: I'll gather my breath at the bottom of my deep darkness
The Beast of Darkness: I'll save my power as much as I'm tied and suppressed

Quote
I know Guts was friendly with Roderick from the start, which is really strange to me as Guts has trouble accepting new people (I know he accepted him because he has a ship) yet he was nice with him which is unusual if you see how he treated Farnese, Serpico and Schierke, not to mention the monkey.

Farnese, Serpico, Schierke, and Isidro were a part of Guts' developing the ability to trust people and be friendly again.

Quote
And the Sea God, don't you think it's that Isma girl, I mean it's more than an apostle or even a witch, yet I believe she's a good person.

She isn't... she warns Isidro about the Sea God and stops him from entering the cave, she also takes care of Isidro's small wound, and seems to be excited talking to him, everything points away from her being the Sea God(dess). Signs point to her being either a witch or another spiritual creature.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18426
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2010, 08:38:47 PM »
I mean, it's hard for Guts to be friendly with others, I always saw him a bit of a loner from the start, so whenever I see him act like that I'm touched.

Ok, but like I told you, this isn't exactly novel behavior on his part. Nor is it the best example, really.

As for the point of the Beast, enlight me if you know something else, please.

How about you just read the episode carefully? It's episode 290.

I know Guts was friendly with Roderick from the start, which is really strange to me as Guts has trouble accepting new people (I know he accepted him because he has a ship) yet he was nice with him which is unusual if you see how he treated Farnese, Serpico and Schierke, not to mention the monkey.

It just goes to show you didn't pay enough attention to the various changes that occurred in Guts since he met his companions. There's 10 volumes of character development that lead to this.

And the Sea God, don't you think it's that Isma girl

Nope.

I mean it's more than an apostle or even a witch

I would say that the Sea God is definitely not an apostle or a witch.

I believe she's a good person.

Me too. There's no contradiction with the rest.

if she's a good person and the sea goddess

She's the one who told Isidro about the Sea God in the first place. They're two different entities no matter what scenario you envision.

Xem

  • Guest
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2010, 09:28:16 PM »
she protected Isidro from the Sea God and seriously warned him about it.

Perhaps she didn't want Isidro to enter the cave for other reasons, reasons that haven't been revealed yet. Since Guts royally fucked up the last sea monster, perhaps the smaller tentacles were indication that a new one was growing inside... maybe she was protecting it instead of the other way around.

That aside, my first initial reaction to her running around flaunting her shtuff in front of Isidro was that she could be a siren of sorts, as has been hypothesized earlier. Upon further thinking though, it's most probable that she's just been isolated on this island for a while, and doesn't see that type of behavior the way we do.

I guess one of the big questions to be asking is if she's a human, how come she hasn't been transformed like the rest of the villagers? I'm sure Schierke has lots of questions and maybe some answers, I can't wait for the next episode.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15896
  • Karma: 475
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2010, 09:47:30 PM »
and she's got a charm on her door with four cardinal points. IIRC, that's common symbolism in all forms of magic.
The symbols and arrangement of the door's artifact actually reminds me of what Schierke did in Vol 24 to ward off the trolls:



Obviously, they aren't exactly alike, but the methods are similar. As IgnusDei said, items are arranged at cardinal points. And I wonder if it isn't a ward against the Sea God, or its influence -- something to keep at bay what turned the villagers into its minions. Of course, there are other possibilities with Isma's character than simply someone who knows how to place wards. But this is one that struck me, looking at that doorway.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18426
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Episode 312
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2010, 10:26:30 PM »
Perhaps she didn't want Isidro to enter the cave for other reasons, reasons that haven't been revealed yet. Since Guts royally fucked up the last sea monster, perhaps the smaller tentacles were indication that a new one was growing inside... maybe she was protecting it instead of the other way around.

So she brought Isidro home, tended to his injury, changed clothes in front of him (with her back turned), made him food and enthusiastically asked him about the world/his adventures to protect a monster that could have simply not showed up if it felt threatened? And that would make her the incredibly powerful being that transformed every villager on the island (and made sea cucumbers into monsters too)? Honestly it's so far-fetched and unlikely that it feels like you made it so on purpose.

Upon further thinking though, it's most probable that she's just been isolated on this island for a while, and doesn't see that type of behavior the way we do.

Yeah, it passes as carefree and naive behavior and not as a definite will to seduce backed up by otherworldly powers.

I guess one of the big questions to be asking is if she's a human, how come she hasn't been transformed like the rest of the villagers?

Well we can already tell for sure that she's not a normal human, so that's not much of a mystery.

I wonder if it isn't a ward against the Sea God, or its influence -- something to keep at bay what turned the villagers into its minions. Of course, there are other possibilities with Isma's character than simply someone who knows how to place wards. But this is one that struck me, looking at that doorway.

The same thing occurred to me when I saw it, and it made me wonder why Schierke didn't pick up on it when she came to the house. The central spiral is also similar to those that maintained Flora's barrier in the woods.