Author Topic: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?  (Read 14925 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2010, 08:56:21 PM »
He wasn't even worth following. :troll:



I see a lot of interesting speculation shot down as a "No" which kills the idea, which could lead to further ideas or developments of theories that are more correct.

What? The speculations that are shot down with a straight "No" are never either interesting or likely to lead to anything correct. Believe me, I speak from experience.

Also, crazier things have happened in the world of Berserk, so it is a possibility.  I am definitely curious as to what Rakshas was doing in Zodd's armpit.  The whole thing reeks of mystery.  And sweaty Zodd.

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Offline deamonsonfire

Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2011, 06:05:40 PM »
Great thread.

I agree to an extent. I definitely think that Rakshas is up to something & his lack of a reaction could very well have to do with something happening in the future.  As for what exactly that is, I have no real say/feelings. Tagging along with the SK is possible. SK going to elfhelm is a baseless stretch imo.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2011, 03:51:32 PM »
I'm sorry if this has been answered before but I didn't see it; Is Rakshas an apostle? I know he is a Bakiraka outcast but I wasn't sure if they ever mentioned he was one or not.

What would your best guess be?

Online Griffith

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2011, 03:56:10 PM »
I'm sorry if this has been answered before but I didn't see it; Is Rakshas an apostle? I know he is a Bakiraka outcast but I wasn't sure if they ever mentioned he was one or not.

Well... (deep breath) Rakshas affiliation with the Bakiraka was mentioned in the same episode where he and the world's Apostles joined Griffith, and he's one of Griffith's prominent lieutenants, of which the others are all Apostles, in Griffith's Apostle army where Rakshas unflinchingly leads Apostles into battle, and not only has he never expressed surprise or shock at the existence of Apostles or their presence in Griffith's army, but he has intimate and seemingly innate knowledge of Apostles, including perfect understanding of Ganishka's complicated metaphysiological (and really gross) use of Apostles to create Daka when he took point infiltrating Wyndham Castle with a group of Apostles and Ganishka felt their inhuman presence! Whew. So, I refer you back to Aaz's question and ask what you did think Miura was saying with all that?

Thanks for reviving the thread btw... you'll all see! :rakshas: :SK:???

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2011, 07:06:03 PM »
Holy Apostle! That's one long sentence that describes him perfectly :ubik:
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2013, 05:53:00 PM »
Since that attack at Flora's house, there is the idea that Griffith was sending his troops to destroy any opposing force. It's a good argument to support this theory. However, after Falconia became reality, there is a feeling that it was the definitive victory of the Falcon. Moreover, the Skull Knight had a huge contribution to it. Additionally, when Irvine defeated that rooster it suggested that now the threats are widespread, even to apostles, so it would be better to them take refuge at Falconia along with humans. Therefore, I think it's not the case to keep chasing enemies. Instead, I believe the presence of Rakshas there was more likely a matter of curiosity. Do you know those uncomfortable questions about our existence:

- Who am I?

- What the hell am I doing here?

- What is this life all about?

Imagine that one day you finally meet a guy who claims to possess the answers for these questions. Imagine that there are lots of simultaneous events that make you at least believe that he is not lying. Wouldn't you feel tempted to follow him? Therefore, a natural question may follow: "So, who the hell are you?". I believe that's the context here.

Rakshas is introduced with a feeling of surprise before stating that one day he would cut off Griffith's head. Later, his previous relationships with the Bakiraka suggest that he is not that trustworthy with his allies. These events make me believe that he may be following Griffith, but he definately is not a blind faithful soldier. It's still premature to affirm if he is actually going to try to cut off Griffith's head and be some kind of Judas Iscariotes. I think he is more interested in the true nature of his new master. Who would be more curious than.... a spy? Up to now, he was successful to witness Griffth as Femto.

Not everybody reacted the same way. Zodd's reaction was more like "So, you are THE man? So, prove it!".

Offline Walter

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2013, 06:35:38 PM »
Up to now, he was successful to witness Griffth as Femto.

Not everybody reacted the same way. Zodd's reaction was more like "So, you are THE man? So, prove it!".
[/size]
It's not a secret to apostles. Remember, Ganishka's inner monologue about how apostles are drawn to their master?
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2013, 06:39:04 PM »
Therefore, a natural question may follow: "So, who the hell are you?". I believe that's the context here.

[...]

I think he is more interested in the true nature of his new master. Who would be more curious than.... a spy? Up to now, he was successful to witness Griffth as Femto.

Apostles all know exactly who and what Griffith is. That's why they follow him.

toey

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2013, 01:16:59 AM »
It's not a secret to apostles. Remember, Ganishka's inner monologue about how apostles are drawn to their master?

I'm sorry, I tried hard to find that passage, but I couldn't find it. Do you have any idea of which episode is it? Or at least around which part.

Offline Walter

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2013, 02:21:27 AM »
I'm sorry, I tried hard to find that passage, but I couldn't find it. Do you have any idea of which episode is it? Or at least around which part.
Volume 27: Episode 231.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

toey

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2013, 01:11:49 PM »
Thanks for the help, Walter.

That passage shows that Ganishka is aware of a connection between Griffith and the Hawk, and the inner drive of the apostles to follow him. I understand what he described as to be inside of a God as a definitive meaning to their existence. However, the connection between God Hand and the Hawk is still not that clear. I donít know if there is other passage that shows this, but I think the eclipse ceremony wasnít enough to clarify it.

But even if the apostles knew that Griffith = Femto, they still donít have a complete understanding of what is the God Hand. They know that they are powerful, they may be summoned, they were humans, they require sacrifices. But this may not give enough reasons to follow them.

Look at how people behave. There are lots of religions in the world. Why do people choose to follow one of them in spite of the others ? Itís not only a matter of which god is more powerful. All religions tell myths about extremely powerful deities. If one choose to worship one of them is because they somehow feel touched by it. This is what give meaning to them.

Thereís a passage of a similar event happening to the pope. He saw the Hawk in his dreams and wings similar to an angel. After that he had no doubts that Griffith was the savior of humanity. Itís not a simple matter of knowledge. Itís faith.

In the confrontation with Griffith, Ganishka was almost touched. In this case, quite literally. He instinctively knew what that would mean.

Something similar happened to Zodd, and this might be the greatest example for an apostle. He challenged the Hawk and was submitted. Look at how he changed from a wanderer engaged in meaningless fights, to a loyal liuternant.

When one find its own meaning it also brings a sense of righteousness. I sincerely donít feel the same with Rakshas. His suspicious behavior suggests that he might not have the same conviction of others. There is a part in which he guided the Bakiraka to the artificial Beherit. He wanted them to know that their emperor Ganishka was, in fact, the true demon. Later, he witnessed that the Hawk was something much worse than the true demon. Remember, his perspective on the top of Ganishka was very different from the rest of humanity. Some might argue that Zodd was indifferent to this fact, however, I interpret that Zodd was already completely converted.
All humanity have a inner drive to follow the Hawk. But if some of them are not completely convinced, the alternative is to follow his steps to learn more. Thatís why I said that it may be curiosity.

Offline Walter

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2013, 05:31:44 PM »
But even if the apostles knew that Griffith = Femto,
They do. This is not something that's in dispute.

Quote
they still donít have a complete understanding of what is the God Hand. They know that they are powerful, they may be summoned, they were humans, they require sacrifices. But this may not give enough reasons to follow them.
The God Hand are regarded as the masters of the apostles. See Locus in Episode 232, ("Why do you oppose our master?") and several other episodes where it's spelled out very clearly what their relationship is. They are compelled to obey their master(s). Note how Ganishka responds when he's in the presence of Griffith in Episode 283. "By simply being in front of him, I am content with all. Yet at the same time, I am filled with longing. This feeling is... maddening."

Quote
Look at how people behave. There are lots of religions in the world. Why do people choose to follow one of them in spite of the others ? Itís not only a matter of which god is more powerful. All religions tell myths about extremely powerful deities. If one choose to worship one of them is because they somehow feel touched by it. This is what give meaning to them.

Thereís a passage of a similar event happening to the pope. He saw the Hawk in his dreams and wings similar to an angel. After that he had no doubts that Griffith was the savior of humanity. Itís not a simple matter of knowledge. Itís faith.
You're really off course  here... This has absolutely nothing to do with faith and everything to do with the power of the God Hand compelling and in some cases manipulating people to ally with them.

Quote
Something similar happened to Zodd, and this might be the greatest example for an apostle. He challenged the Hawk and was submitted. Look at how he changed from a wanderer engaged in meaningless fights, to a loyal liuternant.
Not sure what you were trying to prove with this instance, but in the case of Zodd, it's extremely special. We knew from before that he was searching for something--the absolute one. He wasn't personally interested with the affairs of the God Hand, until Femto appeared to him in the visage of the Falcon dream and proved to him that HE was that being. What set Zodd down that path? Is there more to it...? Maybe.

Quote
When one find its own meaning it also brings a sense of righteousness. I sincerely donít feel the same with Rakshas. His suspicious behavior suggests that he might not have the same conviction of others. There is a part in which he guided the Bakiraka to the artificial Beherit. He wanted them to know that their emperor Ganishka was, in fact, the true demon. Later, he witnessed that the Hawk was something much worse than the true demon. Remember, his perspective on the top of Ganishka was very different from the rest of humanity. Some might argue that Zodd was indifferent to this fact, however, I interpret that Zodd was already completely converted.
All humanity have a inner drive to follow the Hawk. But if some of them are not completely convinced, the alternative is to follow his steps to learn more. Thatís why I said that it may be curiosity.
What.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

toey

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2013, 11:20:58 PM »
The divergence here is that you interpret the actions of the apostles as pre-determined, while I believe that they are choices. The apostles chose to become apostles. Later, they chose to follow the Hawk. They are not different from common human beings in this sense. They did it because they believed in him, not because they were afraid of punishment. My point is that Rakshas probably donít trust him.

Of course faith is important. Griffith has been playing the role of the messiah since the incarnation. He hasnít performed a single action as Griffith. Falconia was only possible because of the actions of others. Those who had chosen to follow him and those who had chosen to oppose him. An important point: to fight the Hawk also means to believe in the Hawk. After the choice, is up to the person to face the consequences. Itís not something imposed.

The problem, is that human beings canít bear the consequences of their choices. So they try to alienate themselves from them. The God Hand is around only to guarantee this. They mention causality many times. Their role is to offer excuses to people, thus their fates can be seen as reasonable, understandable, comprehensible. But in the end, they are only choices. 

Faith is also important because itís a kind of choice. What happened to Zodd and the Pope was what is called a leap of faith. It happens when a person witness an extremely meaningful event and then decides to believe in something. In other terms, a miracle.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 11:45:17 PM by toey »

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2013, 12:39:00 AM »
Faith is also important because it’s a kind of choice. What happened to Zodd and the Pope was what is called a leap of faith. It happens when a person witness an extremely meaningful event and then decides to believe in something. In other terms, a miracle.


I'm really not so sure.  To me what happened at the tower of Albion when Mozgus and his dudes were fighting Guts is more like what you are describing.  The pseudo apostles and the people both witnessed and were part of these insane and/or awesome events and decided to believe, a 'leap of faith' the way you're speaking of it.  These things happened and they felt their own strong feelings and all this inspired them to choose to believe in the 'angels'.

When you're talking about Griffith and Mule and the pope-a and the apostles it's not a that sort of choice.  It's not so much their own natural feelings as something that reached in and PUT those strong feelings there.  Then they choose to go with these strong feelings or to go 'what the HECK?' or to resist etc.  I would call neither rolling so badly that you didn't notice what happened, nor the decision to knuckle under and let Griffith win this sort of a charisma check unopposed, 'faith.'

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2013, 02:26:39 AM »
It's not so much their own natural feelings as something that reached in and PUT those strong feelings there.  Then they choose to go with these strong feelings or to go 'what the HECK?' or to resist etc.

Feelings are not inserted. People react to what they see when they recognize that something is meaningful. To a skeptical person the same images could mean nothing but a bad dream.

Zodd had been looking for something higher than him for centuries. And the pope, well, suffice to say that he is the leader of the church. Faith is part of his job.

To believe that a person is undoubetly a messiah is faith. I don't know any messiah who lacked charisma. Do you?

Offline Walter

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2013, 02:44:00 AM »
Feelings are not inserted. People react to what they see when they recognize that something is meaningful. To a skeptical person the same images could mean nothing but a bad dream.

Zodd had been looking for something higher than him for centuries. And the pope, well, suffice to say that he is the leader of the church. Faith is part of his job.

To believe that a person is undoubetly a messiah is faith. I don't know any messiah who lacked charisma. Do you?
You are completely ignoring the facts.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2013, 06:55:49 AM »
The apostles chose to become apostles. Later, they chose to follow the Hawk. They are not different from common human beings in this sense. They did it because they believed in him, not because they were afraid of punishment. My point is that Rakshas probably donít trust him.

You have no point. The basis for your overly convoluted and confusing ideas was erroneous. You were told so. Why persist? Most of what you say here is either irrelevant or nonsensical. See the drivel below as an example:

Griffith has been playing the role of the messiah since the incarnation. He hasnít performed a single action as Griffith. Falconia was only possible because of the actions of others. [...]

An important point: to fight the Hawk also means to believe in the Hawk. After the choice, is up to the person to face the consequences. Itís not something imposed. [...]

Faith is also important because itís a kind of choice. What happened to Zodd and the Pope was what is called a leap of faith. It happens when a person witness an extremely meaningful event and then decides to believe in something. In other terms, a miracle.

Have you actually read the series? Have you seen those scenes? Do you understand what kind of world Berserk is set in? It doesn't seem so.

Offline Metal_Bear_Rex

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2013, 02:46:27 AM »
This theory is impossible as Rakshas IS Skull Knight.