Author Topic: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?  (Read 14915 times)

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Offline Griffith

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Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« on: September 15, 2010, 07:57:17 AM »
One of the questions during the final showdown with Ganishka was what Rakshas was doing there. It still hasn't been answered, but this is one idea. It's not a new idea, but it deserves further exploration. The hypothesis of this thread is that during their brief encounter on top of Ganishka, Rakshas, as per Griffith's plan, jumped from Zodd onto Skull Knight, whom he stayed with thereafter. Griffith/Femto said he knew Skully was coming, was expecting him in fact, and even used him in his plans already. The most likely and knowable motive behind this move, beyond tracking Skull Knight's movements, would be to pinpoint the location of Skellig and Elfhelm itself, which all encompass the largest known threats to Griffith's rule.

So, lets establish the plausibility of Rakshas being able to make such a move and blend in with Skully undetected, as well as iron out some other wrinkles. First, examine Rakshas' appearance, abilities, and freedom of movement below:












Now, let's recreate the scene on top of Ganishka, focusing on Zodd, Rakshas, and Skull Knight:








While there's certainly no conclusive evidence of Rakshas making his way onto Skully (you have no idea how long I stared at these images zoomed to the max looking for a "Zodd on the rocky knoll"-type smoking gun shot of Rakshas =), it's quite easy to imagine him making the transition. Hell, with it mind, it's hard not to imagine it in those pictures. You could literally be looking at Rakshas in all three of those images but not be able to discern him from Skull Knight's cape. That coincidence both adds to the plausibility of him hiding on Skully while making it impossible to confirm or deny without a positive ID. Of course, I'm not saying Miura actually drew him in those shots, he didn't, but he didn't have to in order to maintain the plausibility of Rakshas having jumped on and hid there later (the point is he's supposed to be hiding after all). Rakshas remaining undetected is another matter, and where this idea becomes most theoretical. Rakshas would need to be able to hide his presence, albeit a specialty of his, from Skull Knight for the duration. A prohibitive notion, only our combined ignorance of the extent of Rakshas' and Skull Knight's abilities makes this inconclusive as well. On that note, since we've established there's little conclusive evidence, let's examine the circumstantial evidence next.

Back to the original question, after Rakshas was revealed to be on Zodd's wing, we naturally tried to guess what role he would play in the events to follow; what was he doing there? Well, unless you guessed "nothing we'll see," you were wrong. After his initial reveal, Rakshas wasn't just seemingly inconsequential, he was conspicuously absent; no further involvement, no reaction shots, not even another token appearance under Zodd's wing. Rakshas' complete silence in all this is pretty damn loud when you think about it. For instance, it's been established that he and Zodd are Griffith's personal bodyguards, so he could have been there merely in that capacity, except he sure did a piss poor job of it. When Skully attacked, Zodd reacted immediately and lunged at him, conveniently getting Rakshas extremely close, yet Rakshas didn't attack, or appear at all. If he was there as a bodyguard, shouldn't he have attacked Skully then as well, or at least had a reaction to the situation?

Speaking of reactions, considering that Griffith turned into Femto, Skull Knight attacked him, Zodd attacked Skull Knight, Ganishka died, the world was remade, and Falconia appeared as from nowhere, that's a lot to ignore. Every character of significance there, and even Guts' party at sea, had a reaction at some point:









Except Rakshas.

Why didn't we see Rakshas' reaction to any of this? He was at the epicenter of it, so why didn't we see his eyes lighting up along with Femto, Zodd, and Skull Knight? Why wasn't he included among the other Apostle lieutenants and everyone else when Falconia appeared? Well, if he was still hiding under Zodd's wing at the time, I guess we wouldn't see his reaction with the other... wait a minute, was he still on Zodd's wing at the time?



Enhance:



Back, and to the left.

Do you see Rakshas there? I don't. There's some dark splotches or shadows, but they still look consistent with the texture of the rest of Zodd's wings. Now, again, this is inconclusive at best, I even checked Zodd's wings in episode 302, as he's flying toward Ganishka, and you can't see Rakshas there either. Still, that was before his presence was established, this was after. At the very least, it means his whereabouts after the encounter with Skull Knight on top of Ganishka are inconclusive at best as well. Taken altogether, it doesn't just seem like coincidence, but design.

As a matter of fact, going back to the original question about Rakshas' purpose there, about the only thing you can say for sure that he was doing there was hiding. Now that might sound obtuse, but don't overlook it or think of it as passive happenstance and a non-action, because it certainly didn't go down that way. Extremes were taken for him to remain hidden, literally, and figuratively from the audience, like there was purpose behind it. So, if he was actively hidden, there was really only one person there for him to hide from, and at least one good reason I can think of...


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 11:36:17 AM »
One of the questions during the final showdown with Ganishka was what Rakshas was doing there. It still hasn't been answered, but this is one idea. It's not a new idea, but it deserves further exploration. The hypothesis of this thread is that during their brief encounter on top of Ganishka, Rakshas, as per Griffith's plan, jumped from Zodd onto Skull Knight, whom he stayed with thereafter. Griffith/Femto said he knew Skully was coming, was expecting him in fact, and even used him in his plans already. The most likely and knowable motive behind this move, beyond tracking Skull Knight's movements, would be to pinpoint the location of Skellig and Elfhelm itself, which all encompass the largest known threats to Griffith's rule.

I have a few comments on the idea. First off, I find the idea of Rakshas trying to stalk the Skull Knight plausible. As you mentioned I'd posted about it back before we even knew how the encounter would end.

How about some outlandish predictions? [...] as SK leaves in a hurry before having to face retaliation, Rakshas jumps after him through the portal. What could their destination be? Don't tell me that... an apostle has infiltrated Elfhelm!?

However, I don't think Rakshas necessarily had to cling to the Skull Knight's horse to achieve that end. And I can't imagine the Skull Knight not noticing something like that either. Simply waiting for him to leave and following him discreetly seems more plausible.

A second point I'd raise is that I'm not sure pinpointing Elfhelm's location is something Femto has a real need for. The God Hand knows a lot of things, and Griffith didn't have a problem sending apostles to Flora's exact location. With the worlds having merged and the distance separating Elfhelm from Midland, it just doesn't seem to be a very strong motive to me.

Besides, nothing says the SK jumped there directly. What if he just moved 100 miles away to watch the result of the explosion from a mountain, then traveled on horse, then moved around the world to check on what was happening for a while? Could Rakshas tail him for so long without being detected? Not to mention the fact that SK might be able to instantly detect apostles and other supernatural beings.

As a matter of fact, going back to the original question about Rakshas' purpose there, about the only thing you can say for sure that he was doing there was hiding.

Hiding and observing. That's what this last shot of him makes me think of. Watching quietly (and it's worth noting that he could also have been there by his own initiative). This whole speculation reminds me of his little excursion in Wyndham in volume 27. At the time I thought he might have had a specific, "secret" purpose for going there, like trying to sabotage something or assassinate someone, but in the end the only goal it had served was what we'd been shown: reconnoitering and showing Ganishka's experiments to Silat and the Tapasa.

Offline Jesterhead

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 02:25:26 PM »
Originally I was just under the impression that Rakshas was concealing his presence for the purpose of spying/snooping around into Griffith's actions. Maybe trying to further understand him or trying to figure out a way to possibly kill him.

After reading your post, I can't wait to go back and read through those episodes again to get a fresh take on it!  :rakshas:

Online Walter

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2010, 03:26:23 PM »
I think Rakshas may have been hiding under Zodd's wing unbeknownst to anyone. I think he was either there to witness the downfall of Ganishka, or to observe Griffith's actions. Either way, he got quite a show.

Rakshas is a Bakiraka exile, so there could have been a hidden connection between he and Ganishka. Rakshas may have wanted to witness the evil emperor's end. And though Rakshas has been loyal to Griffith thus far, his enigmatic line in vol 22 about wanting to cut off Griffith's head always has me second-guessing his motives.

The hypothesis of this thread is that during their brief encounter on top of Ganishka, Rakshas, as per Griffith's plan, jumped from Zodd onto Skull Knight, whom he stayed with thereafter.
But if Griffith ordered Rakshas there for the specific purpose of subsequently tracking Skull Knight, whose entrance was only predicted by Griffith, why was Zodd surprised by SK's appearance? If Zodd didn't know SK was going to appear, do you think Griffith whispered his plan into Rakshas' ear alone? I think Occam's Razor sort of cuts that apart.

Also, similar to Aaz, I think it's presumptuous to assume that Griffith doesn't know the location of Elfhelm. It's the largest accumulation of magic and elves in the world. I can't imagine something like that wouldn't be glaringly obvious to detect by someone as powerful and knowledgeable as a member of the God Hand. Besides, even if Rakshas did jump through the exit portal and identified Elfhelm's wherabouts, he'd have a hard time getting that kind of reconnaissance back to Falconia for Griffith's use.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2010, 05:09:21 PM »
However, I don't think Rakshas necessarily had to cling to the Skull Knight's horse to achieve that end. And I can't imagine the Skull Knight not noticing something like that either. Simply waiting for him to leave and following him discreetly seems more plausible.

Yeah, he could have just followed him as well, I wanted to paint a full picture though, like the good old days. =)

A second point I'd raise is that I'm not sure pinpointing Elfhelm's location is something Femto has a real need for. The God Hand knows a lot of things, and Griffith didn't have a problem sending apostles to Flora's exact location. With the worlds having merged and the distance separating Elfhelm from Midland, it just doesn't seem to be a very strong motive to me.

Perhaps I'm giving Elfhelm too much credit, but with the potential magic power housed there, I thought it at least plausible they could conceal themselves. More on that later.

Besides, nothing says the SK jumped there directly. What if he just moved 100 miles away to watch the result of the explosion from a mountain, then traveled on horse, then moved around the world to check on what was happening for a while? Could Rakshas tail him for so long without being detected? Not to mention the fact that SK might be able to instantly detect apostles and other supernatural beings.

Yeah, this is the most problematic part of the idea, how Rakshas could avoid detection long term. You have to assume he has the ability to hide his supernatural presence from Skull Knight, and that's pure speculation. Another solution would be if Femto had further foreknowledge of where Skull Knight would be returning.

Hiding and observing. That's what this last shot of him makes me think of. Watching quietly (and it's worth noting that he could also have been there by his own initiative).

It's funny, before I went to sleep, with all this still dancing in my head, in that picture he looked positively ready and waiting. Of course, there was plenty to wait for.

This whole speculation reminds me of his little excursion in Wyndham in volume 27. At the time I thought he might have had a specific, "secret" purpose for going there, like trying to sabotage something or assassinate someone, but in the end the only goal it had served was what we'd been shown: reconnoitering and showing Ganishka's experiments to Silat and the Tapasa.

Yeah, sometimes it's as simple as it looks. The interesting thing to me in this case is that he doesn't do anything else, we don't even see him again.

After reading your post, I can't wait to go back and read through those episodes again to get a fresh take on it!  :rakshas:

Well, don't let this post bias you either, tell us what you see. Maybe it'll be something totally different from this.

I think Rakshas may have been hiding under Zodd's wing unbeknownst to anyone. I think he was either there to witness the downfall of Ganishka, or to observe Griffith's actions. Either way, he got quite a show.

I find it hard to believe that Griffith/Femto and Zood wouldn't be aware, though if that's possible, it sure makes me feel better about the idea of Skully not detecting him. As for the big show... Apparently not, it didn't leave much of an impression since he had nary a reaction, when literally everyone else there of note did.

Rakshas is a Bakiraka exile, so there could have been a hidden connection between Ganishka and Rakshas. He may have wanted to witness his end.

Don't you think we'd see him reacting to his end and the fissure then? Or to something? Did Miura forget about him in all this? He wasn't the least important character there, yet he was the only one completely absent in the aftermath, conspicuously so.

But if Griffith ordered Rakshas there for the specific purpose of subsequently tracking Skull Knight, whose entrance was only predicted by Griffith, why was Zodd surprised by SK's appearance? If Zodd didn't know SK was going to appear, do you think Griffith whispered his plan into Rakshas' ear alone?

Quite simply, yes. Occam's razor cuts both ways, and it's not something Zodd needed to know. Griffith didn't tell him in any case, and it seems Rakshas knew something Zodd didn't, or at least they weren't on the same page, since he didn't attack Skull Knight (and he's consistently protected Griffith in the past), and wasn't visibly moved (or even visible) during the events to follow.

Basically, the simplest explanations don't totally make sense either.

Also, similar to Aaz, I think it's presumptuous to assume that Griffith doesn't know the location of Elfhelm. It's the largest accumulation of magic and elves in the world. I can't imagine something like that wouldn't be glaringly obvious to detect by someone as powerful and knowledgeable as a member of the God Hand.

Well, it can be presumptuous either way, the God Hand might very well know most things going on in the World, or maybe not, but either way, there's likely still things beyond even their control. Flora mentioned that her powers were weak and her protective barrier was easily broken (yet this was someone Griffith made killing a priority). I'd guess that Elfhelm's security is more impressive.

Besides, even if Rakshas did jump through the exit portal and identified Elfhelm's wherabouts, he'd have a hard time getting that kind of reconnaissance back to Falconia for Griffith's use.

Feast or famine, eh? The God Hand either know everything, or not even the location of their own Apostles. =)

Offline m

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2010, 05:29:53 PM »
For some reason I am under the impression that following the Skull Knight without him noticing can't be a very easy task for an apostle.

Not to mention the fact that SK might be able to instantly detect apostles and other supernatural beings.

I don't know about other supernatural beings, but somehow I got the idea that he does have the ability to detect apostles.


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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2010, 05:39:24 PM »
Apparently not, it didn't leave much of an impression since he had nary a reaction, when literally everyone else there of note did.
Did we get Zodd's reaction to the new world?

Quote
Quite simply, yes. Occam's razor cuts both ways, and it's not something Zodd needed to know. Griffith didn't tell him in any case, and it seems Rakshas knew something Zodd didn't, or at least they weren't on the same page, since he didn't attack Skull Knight (and he's consistently protected Griffith in the past), and wasn't visibly moved (or even visible) during the events to follow.
While I'm not personally concerned about the lack of reaction shots from Rakshas, I do agree that it's a good point that he didn't intervene along with Zodd.

Quote
Well, it can be presumptuous either way, the God Hand might very well know most things going on in the World, or maybe not, but either way, there's likely still things beyond even their control. Flora mentioned that her powers were weak and her protective barrier was easily broken (yet this was someone Griffith made killing a priority). I'd guess that Elfhelm's security is more impressive.
Flora never says the barrier is for concealment though. Guts and Casca, residents of the Interstice, pass through it without trouble. As did Morgan, in his fatigued state as a child. Now, the barrier she mentions may just be something that keeps evil beings at bay, and because Flora was weakening, that's indeed likely why apostles were able to break through, but that doesn't mean that Griffith didn't know WHERE it was. I tend to believe that such a unique place as Elfhelm would be difficult to hide from those with any perceptive abilities.

Quote
Feast or famine, eh? The God Hand either know everything, or not even the location of their own Apostles. =)
Oh come on, what I propose isn't a paradox. If we presume Griffith does have that kind of knowledge, then he wouldn't need to send Rakshas to begin with. On the other hand, if he doesn't have that knowledge, then he'd need to send Rakshas, who would have trouble getting back easily, since it's leagues away, across the ocean.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2010, 07:07:20 PM »
Did we get Zodd's reaction to the new world?

He's one of the first to react, to the fissure itself, like Femto, Skully, and... that's it. As I was saying before, perhaps we didn't see Rakshas' reaction to the tree and Falconia because he was with Zodd and Griffith, but then we don't see him with them again either. Meanwhile, everyone else reacted to the fissure and its consequences at some point, and it's odd that such consideration would be given to every character but Rakshas. Perhaps he simply fell through the cracks, but it's odd in any case.

While I'm not personally concerned about the lack of reaction shots from Rakshas

Why not, you don't think it's the least bit curious, or wonder if there's a reason? Especially when you connect that dot to...

I do agree that it's a good point that he didn't intervene along with Zodd.

...this.

Flora never says the barrier is for concealment though. Guts and Casca, residents of the Interstice, pass through it without trouble. As did Morgan, in his fatigued state as a child. Now, the barrier she mentions may just be something that keeps evil beings at bay, and because Flora was weakening, that's indeed likely why apostles were able to break through, but that doesn't mean that Griffith didn't know WHERE it was.

Your guess is as good as mine, there's no right way to assume how the barrier worked. Though, there was evidence to suggest that it did conceal the mansion when it did, stopping those uninvited by the Witch from reaching it (Morgan says as much of the legend, and experienced it himself). Flora's words further suggest that it might have worked against greater supernatural beings as well, like said Apostles, when she/it was stronger. In any case, however such magic barriers work, it would be advantageous to have someone on the inside, potentially compromising it.

I tend to believe that such a unique place as Elfhelm would be difficult to hide from those with any perceptive abilities.

It's unique properties could just as easily make it the other way around. It's not prohibitive of this scenario either way.

Oh come on, what I propose isn't a paradox. If we presume Griffith does have that kind of knowledge, then he wouldn't need to send Rakshas to begin with. On the other hand, if he doesn't have that knowledge, then he'd need to send Rakshas, who would have trouble getting back easily, since it's leagues away, across the ocean.

Not necessarily, while what you're saying isn't a paradox, it is rigid, and there's plenty of gray area and room for compromise between those extreme views of Griffith's dominion for some variation of what I'm proposing. If you can imagine Griffith knowing Elfhelm's location outright, then even if he doesn't, it's easier to imagine him finding and reaching it if his own power has already infiltrated it.

Anyway, that's just one specific example of a motive that ties into the bigger picture, Rakshas could have just as well only be after Skull Knight himself. To follow him, learn his secrets and perhaps those of others opposing the God Hand, and perhaps eventually try to assassinate him. In any case, whether you believe any of this or not, Rakshas' appearance and subsequent disappearance is suspicious and raises these questions, like what he was doing there and where he was subsequently. Even the simplest explanation, that he was just there to watch and never moved, has its issues.

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2010, 01:23:19 AM »
Who's to say he didn't jump over to SK in order to go have a chat with him?  If we take it at face value that he wants to kill Griffith one day it stands to reason he'd want a few pointers from the guy.  It makes more sense to me that Rakshas could hide from (or be acknowledged yet ignored by) a pretty damn preoccupied Griff and Zodd than from Skully.

Offline Oburi

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2010, 06:40:28 AM »
I like this theory Griff. Griffith/Femto has surprised me more times than I can count as far as out smarting and planning things in advance goes. You just can't underestimate him.  The attack on Flora's mansion, the rescue of princess Charlotte, the way he was able to defeat and conquer Ganishka, and of course the ultimate trickery of getting the checkmate with the nobles of midland after the Pontiff sided with him. I wouldn't past Griffith for a second to have confided in Rakshas that something will happen at "junction of times" and that he must be there and serve a purpose. Seams totally plausible to me anyway, and if Miura was truly only showing Rakshas there just to watch the spectacle, I believe there would have been more watching draw in. As its been said, no reaction shots after Zodd gets close to Skully.
Quote
But if Griffith ordered Rakshas there for the specific purpose of subsequently tracking Skull Knight, whose entrance was only predicted by Griffith, why was Zodd surprised by SK's appearance? If Zodd didn't know SK was going to appear, do you think Griffith whispered his plan into Rakshas' ear alone?

Yea, why not? Maybe Griffith needed Zodd to not know, so he could be surprised and things could work out the way they did. I wouldn't put it past Griffith.

The only thing that plants doubt in my mind is the fact the Rakshas has been shown to do things his own way in the past, but that event didn't (and probably couldn't) effect Griffith in any sort of negative way. And the comment about him collecting Griffiths head, even if that was his true motivation, it seems too soon for that type of betrayal to happen at such a particular climatic point in the story.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 07:16:17 AM by Oburi »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2010, 08:17:44 AM »
I find Rakshas' "questionable" allegiance to be kind of theoretical itself. Aside from his ambigous introduction, his behavior has otherwise been consistently in the service of Griffith, like any of his other lieutenants. Besides, the line may have been a figurative expression, like saying "you're cute enough to eat." It wasn't just that Rakshas wants to cut off Griffith's head, he specifically exalts Griffith's beauty, and shamelessly covets it. Adding credence to that interpretation, the alternative is literally implausible; any apostle, even Ganishka twice reborn, is helplessly subordinate to Griffith. Rakshas saying he's going to protect Griffith until the day he can cut off his head might be tantamount to a lifetime pledge, e.g. he's going to protect him "until pigs fly," i.e. he's never going to stop because that'll never happen. Now, I still think the possibility of Rakshas being a rogue is an intriguing one, Miura did open that door, and it's rife with interesting speculation, perhaps it could even be part of the greater plan like Ganishka's resistance. However, it's not the standard I would judge everything Rakshas does by; otherwise, we might be making mutiny out of devotion.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2010, 02:55:51 PM »
Let's say that Rakshas was able to "hitch" a ride on Skully undetected to find ElfHelm, he might just be able to get back by the same means...

My take though, or my question/take on it, does Rakshas seem to anybody to have some sort of teleportation powers? in volume 32 when he attacks the elephants, he just seems to appear near one and then leave fast. Maybe he can materialize from dark places to dark places. Like appearing on, let's say, Zodd's wing? Or perhaps later on, on Skully's cape?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2010, 04:53:49 PM »
Let's say that Rakshas was able to "hitch" a ride on Skully undetected to find ElfHelm, he might just be able to get back by the same means...

That's rather improbable if you ask me.

My take though, or my question/take on it, does Rakshas seem to anybody to have some sort of teleportation powers?

I don't think so, no. He's just fast, agile and stealthy. When he poisons the elephants he's shown to be moving between them.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2010, 06:24:01 PM »
My take though, or my question/take on it, does Rakshas seem to anybody to have some sort of teleportation powers? in volume 32 when he attacks the elephants, he just seems to appear near one and then leave fast. Maybe he can materialize from dark places to dark places. Like appearing on, let's say, Zodd's wing? Or perhaps later on, on Skully's cape?

I was considering that while making this thread, not only the aforementioned example with the elephants, but these two incidents in particular:




An artistic choice to show Rakshas seemingly appearing out of nowhere, or an artistic choice to show Rakshas literally appearing out of nowhere? As Aaz said, he could just be stealthy, with inhuman agility that makes it seem like he's almost teleporting at times (the default interpretation), but it could also hint at powers to be revealed later. In any case, the mysterious extent of Rakshas' abilities adds an extra layer of wiggle room to this theory. :rakshas:

Offline Rus

Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2010, 08:34:35 PM »
Hmm I really like this theory. Although I have to admit that I don't think it's possible for Rakshas to get even close to Skull Knight without him realizing it.
I don't have the pictures in front of me but judging from the pictures you posted Griffith I see that Rakshas is upside down on Zodd's wing, why is that?
Maybe he was positioning himself in order to jump at some point?
As far as Elfhelm goes, do we actually know for a fact that Skull Knight is associated with it?
Maybe Femto ordered Rakshas to tail Skull Knight around so that he gets some information about him.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2010, 09:11:37 PM »
Hmm I really like this theory. Although I have to admit that I don't think it's possible for Rakshas to get even close to Skull Knight without him realizing it.

Well, you can't like it that much then. :griffnotevil:

I don't have the pictures in front of me but judging from the pictures you posted Griffith I see that Rakshas is upside down on Zodd's wing, why is that?

That's the idea, imagine fending off a blow from Zodd only to have Rakshas come flying out of his armpit. Or, as in this theory, he takes the opportunity to surreptitiously plant himself in the close-proximity ruckus, like a pickpocket lifting or planting an object. Also, it was probably just easier to ride that way than try to hold on by the top of his head. =)

As far as Elfhelm goes, do we actually know for a fact that Skull Knight is associated with it?

He certainly speaks of it like someone with firsthand knowledge, such as his testimony to the power of Hanafubuku Oh to help Casca (perhaps he even helped Skull Knight personally at one time). Then there's his friendship to Flora, a magic user the likes of which are supposed to populate the island, and the connection Puck felt between Skull Knight and Elves. When it comes to Skull Knight's current associations, all roads lead to Elfhelm, in a sense.

Maybe Femto ordered Rakshas to tail Skull Knight around so that he gets some information about him.

Certainly within the realm of possibility.

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2010, 01:38:33 PM »
I love your topics Griffith. The explanation, and pictures accompanied with a long post = win.

Hmmmm, you can't really tell that he was hiding in Zodd's wing, till the head popped out and we see his face. So, perhaps he never left. We're looking for evidence of him being here or there right after those screen shots, but we won't see Rakshas because he's hidden, regardless. Good point you pick there about no panel with Rakshas after Ganishka is defeated.

I like the theory that he hopped on SK as part of reconnaissance, but SK would've noticed as pointed out by other members. UNLESS, he's been loyal to SK from the very beginning and he's a good guy. That may not seem plausible either because Griffith would've known by now. Plus, he hasn't done anything in the past to suggest he's on the other side. 
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2010, 02:14:11 PM »
UNLESS, he's been loyal to SK from the very beginning and he's a good guy.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2010, 05:55:16 PM »
I love your topics Griffith. The explanation, and pictures accompanied with a long post = win.

Thank you, I try.

Hmmmm, you can't really tell that he was hiding in Zodd's wing, till the head popped out and we see his face. So, perhaps he never left. We're looking for evidence of him being here or there right after those screen shots, but we won't see Rakshas because he's hidden, regardless. Good point you pick there about no panel with Rakshas after Ganishka is defeated.

Yeah, he's no longer hidden from the audience at that point, so there's no reason we shouldn't see him again, like everyone else, if he's still there. Even if he's still hidden from the other characters in the same location (which still begs the question, "why?"), the only reason to hide him from the audience again is if he's done something, like discreetly moved to Skully's undercarriage, Miura doesn't want to reveal yet.

I like the theory that he hopped on SK as part of reconnaissance, but SK would've noticed as pointed out by other members.

I don't completely agree with that. While it's admittedly the biggest hurdle to buying into this theory, I don't think it's a given Skully would notice him for a few reasons. First, there was a lot on Skully's plate, coming through the portal, concentrating on striking Femto, having to dodge Zodd's attack (the moment Rakshas would most likely make his move), then being focused on the aftermath of the strike and the fissure. All this happened very quickly, so Skully didn't exactly have time to survey the scene. Second, there was a lot of overwhelming power there, between Ganishka and Femto alone, not to mention the fissure, there could have been so much supernatural static that Rakshas' presence wasn't even a blip on the radar. Third, it's not like Skully came away from that incident looking as omniscient as he has in the past, Femto played him like a fiddle up there, after that, this would be a rather simple encore. Lastly, it's not unreasonable to theorize that hiding his supernatural presence would be within Rakshas' power, since stealth is one of his specialties, and a trait that was no doubt enhanced when he became an Apostle, we just don't know to what extent.

Offline Aphasia

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2010, 11:31:01 PM »
I don't completely agree with that. While it's admittedly the biggest hurdle to buying into this theory, I don't think it's a given Skully would notice him for a few reasons. First, there was a lot on Skully's plate, coming through the portal, concentrating on striking Femto, having to dodge Zodd's attack (the moment Rakshas would most likely make his move), then being focused on the aftermath of the strike and the fissure. All this happened very quickly, so Skully didn't exactly have time to survey the scene. Second, there was a lot of overwhelming power there, between Ganishka and Femto alone, not to mention the fissure, there could have been so much supernatural static that Rakshas' presence wasn't even a blip on the radar. Third, it's not like Skully came away from that incident looking as omniscient as he has in the past, Femto played him like a fiddle up there, after that, this would be a rather simple encore. Lastly, it's not unreasonable to theorize that hiding his supernatural presence would be within Rakshas' power, since stealth is one of his specialties, and a trait that was no doubt enhanced when he became an Apostle, we just don't know to what extent.

Cool thread, interesting theory.  Although I can't get over the idea of Skull Knight being followed without taking noticed, despite how many things were happening at once.  It is possible, but I don't think it's likely.

I briefly recall that SkullKnight was able to sense the Beherit apostle when he was hiding.  It's been a while since I've read those volumes, so it might not be accurate.  I thought there was a scene where he specifically said something about being able to see him, or he knew he was there.  I'll have to check up on this later to make sure I'm not remembering wrong.  It might lend some more insight into his ability to detect apostles.

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2010, 03:20:28 AM »
I should really browse through some old threads, I didn't even know about this theory till 5 minutes ago.  :schnoz:

Personally, I agree with Aazealh's, Walter's and some other comments.
-It's unlikely Rakshas can teleport. He comes from a clan of assassins, it's only natural that he attack people from behind without being detected. Hiding in the shadows is his very nature, imo. It's why we see so few shots of Rakshas, while the other top tier Apostles get far more spotlight.(get back to that later)

I don't buy the theory, because as mentioned, Griffith is an absolute being and probably knows where Elfhelm is. And even if he doesn't, how would he know that Skullknight knows where it is? the purpose of Rakshas hiding in Skullknight's cloak would be what then, exactly? keeping track of his movements? Sk's attack proving to be all part of Griffith's plan, kind of suggests that course of action to be useless. there's also the notion that if SK did not notice Rakshas hitching a ride, than his character has a fatal weakness, even to apostles. that would kind of cheapen his character and his goal of killing the God Hand.. I don't think that's something Miura would do.

As interesting as the images are, if you look at all those episodes, you'll probably notice that you can't find Rakshas hiding on Zodd's wing even when they're going up to Ganishka, he's not just missing while they're leaving. And a lack of a reaction shot from Rakshas does not mean much. He's a unique character even within the apostles. He's the mystery (man?) of the group. He makes rare appearances, usually only briefly, does his thing, and that's it. It's not like that mask can portray "awe" anyway.

I think the most interesting aspect is simply the manner in which Rakshas concealed himself. he was hidden in almost all the shots of Zodd's wing until Miura showed that he's tagged along. In the shot of Rakshas revealing himself, it's almost like he compressed himself into a smaller form. I mean his entire form looks only a tad bigger than his mask is wide/tall. lol I actually wouldn't be surprised if he can make himself even smaller than how he's shown in the shot.

Offline Oburi

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2010, 03:49:39 AM »

I don't buy the theory, because as mentioned, Griffith is an absolute being and probably knows where Elfhelm is. And even if he doesn't, how would he know that Skullknight knows where it is? the purpose of Rakshas hiding in Skullknight's cloak would be what then, exactly? keeping track of his movements? Sk's attack proving to be all part of Griffith's plan, kind of suggests that course of action to be useless.

Well, Griffith saw fit to attack Flora so I wouldn't put it past him to consider Skullknight an enemy worth following. And nobody can possibly guess what knowledge Griffith/Femto has. Maybe Elfhelm's location is protected somehow, maybe Skullknight has connections there and Griffith/Femto knows this.

there's also the notion that if SK did not notice Rakshas hitching a ride, than his character has a fatal weakness, even to apostles. that would kind of cheapen his character and his goal of killing the God Hand.. I don't think that's something Miura would do.

I think Miura already did it with Skullknights attack on Femto, which was useless (to him anyway) and proved to be a big flaw. The point being that even Skullknight isn't beyond making mistakes. I don't think it cheapens the character though, I actually like that aspect, it shows how Skullknight isn't impervious.

He's a unique character even within the apostles. He's the mystery (man?) of the group. He makes rare appearances, usually only briefly, does his thing, and that's it. It's not like that mask can portray "awe" anyway.

You really believe that's all there is to it? He's been typecast as the mystery man of the group? Now THAT would be cheapening a character if you ask me, given how little a role he has had compared to everyone else. And lets not forget we still have not seen his apostle form yet.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 04:45:42 AM by Oburi »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2010, 07:46:30 AM »
I briefly recall that SkullKnight was able to sense the Beherit apostle when he was hiding.  It's been a while since I've read those volumes, so it might not be accurate.  I thought there was a scene where he specifically said something about being able to see him, or he knew he was there.

That scene doesn't mean all that much, because the Beherit-Apostle was basically just hiding in the shadows. However the Skull Knight has exhibited the ability to sense apostles from afar before (like in volume 26), and from various factors it can be assumed that he has ways to sense supernatural beings in general. He has always had advanced knowledge beyond what one would expect anyway.

I think the most interesting aspect is simply the manner in which Rakshas concealed himself. he was hidden in almost all the shots of Zodd's wing until Miura showed that he's tagged along. In the shot of Rakshas revealing himself, it's almost like he compressed himself into a smaller form. I mean his entire form looks only a tad bigger than his mask is wide/tall. lol I actually wouldn't be surprised if he can make himself even smaller than how he's shown in the shot.

It's really nothing new. Rakshas compressed himself in a similar way when he was first introduced in Shet (volume 22). Personally I don't think he can make himself even smaller than that, but it's still a testament to his inhuman, bone-dislocating agility.

And nobody can possibly guess what knowledge Griffith/Femto has. Maybe Elfhelm's location is protected somehow, maybe Skullknight has connections there and Griffith/Femto knows this.

That's a lot of baseless selectivity in what Femto knows or doesn't know. See what I said before: how do you know the Skull Knight will necessarily head to Elfhelm right away? He could spend months wandering to see how the world has changed before going there, which I assume he'll eventually do to meet Guts. The word "maybe" in itself doesn't constitute a valid argument.

I think Miura already did it with Skullknights attack on Femto, which was useless (to him anyway) and proved to be a big flaw.

Not at all. Being thwarted by Femto at the top of his power during an extremely ambitious assassination attempt doesn't cheapen his character or make him appear any weaker. Rakshas riding on his own horse (literally inches away) without him noticing, on the other hand, would make him look foolish. I don't believe it at all.

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2010, 09:43:31 AM »
Being thwarted by Femto at the top of his power during an extremely ambitious assassination attempt doesn't cheapen his character or make him appear any weaker. Rakshas riding on his own horse (literally inches away) without him noticing, on the other hand, would make him look foolish. I don't believe it at all.
He wasn't even worth following. :troll:


Anyway, unexpected revival, and since I don't see anything that hasn't already been addressed, let me take the opportunity to refocus expectations. Nobody needs to outright buy or sell this theory, the point is simply to recognize the possibility, explore the scene in depth from that angle, and determine the plausibility of it, which is what I've tried to do. It's obviously not the most likely scenario or interpretation, but it's not implausible either. Anyway, my point is that speculation in general doesn't have to be a yes or no proposition, but the recognition of possibly, plausibility, and probability. In that spirit, I'm tossing out an arbitrary percentage for this theory: 20% :iva:

Now, that's very generous on its face, but think of it as an exaggerated curve to make it relatable (minuscule numbers would only be more arbitrary); in any case, it gets the point across, and it's still 80% against. =)

Offline Aphasia

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Re: Was Rakshas there to follow Skull Knight?
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2010, 03:23:30 PM »
Probitaplausabilityies.  New word GET! : D

He wasn't even worth following. :troll:
Anyway, unexpected revival, and since I don't see anything that hasn't already been addressed, let me take the opportunity to refocus expectations. Nobody needs to outright buy or sell this theory, the point is simply to recognize the possibility, explore the scene in depth from that angle, and determine the plausibility of it, which is what I've tried to do. It's obviously not the most likely scenario or interpretation, but it's not implausible either. Anyway, my point is that speculation in general doesn't have to be a yes or no proposition, but the recognition of possibly, plausibility, and probability. In that spirit, I'm tossing out an arbitrary percentage for this theory: 20% :iva:

Now, that's very generous on its face, but think of it as an exaggerated curve to make it relatable (minuscule numbers would only be more arbitrary); in any case, it gets the point across, and it's still 80% against. =)

I know what you mean, It's a good point.  I see a lot of interesting speculation shot down as a "No" which kills the idea, which could lead to further ideas or developments of theories that are more correct.  Also, crazier things have happened in the world of Berserk, so it is a possibility.  I am definitely curious as to what Rakshas was doing in Zodd's armpit.  The whole thing reeks of mystery.  And sweaty Zodd. 

If anything it's interesting to again pose the question as to why he was there.  I felt like it was in Femto's plan for him to be there, watching the events unfold.  But I have no idea why I feel that way.  Maybe because it seems a bit silly Femto wouldn't know Rakshas was hiding on Zodd.

I hope we'll get an official explanation of the scene when the storyline switches back over to Griffith.  I love his mysterious nature.  He's so creepy how he deforms and moves about, it makes you question his real motivation. :rakshas: