The Thread of Zelda

Aphasia

ALL MYSTERIES MUST BE SOLVED
Truder said:
-Beginner

-Normal

-Veteran

Difficulties PLEASE!

It's tricky to design a game that is challenging for everyone. Simply making the enemies do more damage would be nice, but I'd also like to see the bosses and enemies attack quicker and have harder patterns to figure out.
Griffith said:
Not much. It doesn't look better enough to make it worthwhile over the original (3D notwithstanding). Let me put it this way, if you could play A Link to the Past with Donkey Kong Country-style graphics (for better or worse), wouldn't you rather just play the original?

I'm personally rather fond of the 3DS make-over it's getting. Though I could see where the style would not appeal to everyone. Supposedly the 3D effect is utilized quite well in the game, too bad that's kind of a wait and see deal. I've played through the OOT several times (as I'm sure you have as well) I've already experienced all there is to see there. While a remake will never be quite the same, It'll be fun to see it with new layer of paint. I don't quite see the Donkey Kong graphics comparison here though. Do you think it deviates that much?

Saephon said:
Around these parts, no one except me likes Majora's Mask or Wind Waker. Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:

Wrong aaaand wrong. :iva: Probably finished MM more than OOT. Remember the Great Fairy Sword? Totally cooler than the Biggoron sword.

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xZ9PJ.jpg
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Aphasia said:
It's tricky to design a game that is challenging for everyone.

They could start by making the next game challenging for anyone.

Aphasia said:
I'm personally rather fond of the 3DS make-over it's getting. Though I could see where the style would not appeal to everyone.

It kind of reminds me of Skyward Sword, which isn't a compliment to that game. Looks like Twilight Princess is going to hold the mantle for Zelda graphics for a while (if it even has it).

Aphasia said:
I don't quite see the Donkey Kong graphics comparison here though. Do you think it deviates that much?

Bad comparison maybe, I just don't like the subtle change in style of adult Link in that last shot (he and Sheik kind of remind me of Kingdom Hearts), and the graphical improvements otherwise aren't good enough to justify the difference or override nostalgia. Less would have been more as far as altering the style.

Saephon said:
Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:
Aphasia said:
Wrong aaaand wrong. :iva: Probably finished MM more than OOT. Remember the Great Fairy Sword? Totally cooler than the Biggoron sword.

2zEP4.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/xZ9PJ.jpg

manlyfairy.jpg


"Bunch of slack-jawed faggots around here! This stuff will make you a God-damned sexual Tyrannosaurus... just like me."
 

Truder

"I frown at Griffith's nipples" -Aazealh
Aphasia said:
It's tricky to design a game that is challenging for everyone. Simply making the enemies do more damage would be nice, but I'd also like to see the bosses and enemies attack quicker and have harder patterns to figure out.
exactly.

in the trailer you see some enemies that take a full 3 seconds before they attack.. they're like,
"Watch out! here I come ok?" :void:

on a harder difficulty they would attack faster so they actually get a chance to make damage on you. (and would cause greater damage)
in OoT i would always stock up on potions and fairies for the bosses and would not use a single bottle :puck: they really need to fix the difficulty.

Aphasia said:
Probably finished MM more than OOT.
same!

Griffith said:
If by "no one" you mean almost everyone, you're right. It's the hip pick for Zelda fans under 25 because it's nebulously unique, darker and more grown up... or something. More likely it just seemed that way when you were 14.
I was 10! :guts:

but I think I was more terrified of OoT back when I was 9.. and MM was not really scary, more depressing than anything.

which reminds me.. they stole my N64 back when I was 10, Majoras Mask Included :judo: :judo: :judo:

They seriously broke in through the window while my parents I were away at school/work. and all they took was a bunch of things that a kid would take. (which im pretty sure it was a bunch of kids who broke in)

The begging I had to do to get an N64 again.. embarrassing.. :farnese:

they didn't find my other games that were hidden in a box high in my closet though..
 
Griffith said:
Speaking of Wind Waker though, I was just thinking that despite the fact that it's probably the most modern and self-aware Zelda story, it's style really did hurt it and the series. Not just from a "cool" factor because it was cute and cartoonish, but imagine if it'd looked like Twiight Princess instead. I think psychologically it would have been a very different experience, more like you were really lost exploring a vast and ominous sea with Link, less like you're playing with a toy boat.

I don't know what you mean by the style hurting it and the series, the graphics' style is the number one reason I like that game. I'm sure Twilight Princess' serious tone and shiny graphics would make it a different experience but I don't think I would prefer it in this particular game.

But I also don't like A Link To The Past and kind of enjoyed the hell out of Phantom Hourglass so I probably have some disgusting taste in Zelda games or something. :ganishka:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Truder said:
I was 10! :guts:

Just as I thought! :guts:

Truder said:
but I think I was more terrified of OoT back when I was 9.. and MM was not really scary, more depressing than anything.

It was the first emo Zelda game. =) Plus, it heavily featured cosplaying, followed by furries in TP. :carcus:

Truder said:
which reminds me.. they stole my N64 back when I was 10, Majoras Mask Included :judo: :judo: :judo:

That sucks, so it was also the one that got away. I think a friend stole my maxed out Donkey Kong Country 2 when I was a kid, which I loved. I had to barter with another friend to get his copy which he'd also maxed out, and now I don't know where it is. Maybe I actually lost both. :ganishka:

Eluvei said:
I don't know what you mean by the style hurting it and the series, the graphics' style is the number one reason I like that game.

I like the graphical style too, but not the character design. Anyway, I think it was a hurdle in general.

Eluvei said:
I'm sure Twilight Princess' serious tone and shiny graphics would make it a different experience but I don't think I would prefer it in this particular game.

I don't know, it might have been the most epic Zelda game ever if it had played it up right. Here's what I don't get though, the notion it was trying to remain kid friendly, but none of the Zelda games before that had really been intentionally cutesy, per se. If you look at the first 5 games, they were just doing their best with the graphics they had, but they weren't just pandering to children (maybe it was the other way around and Zelda 1 just couldn't effectively look that cute =). I think A Link to the Past is probably the best example, it looks like a cute Super Nintendo game, but its tone is quite serious and somewhat dark throughout (darker even than Majora's Mask, is it possible!?). They weren't overtly playing to the kids, and if they were they were playing to kids' desire to be grown up, whereas the Wind Waker style is kind of the opposite, like grown up Zelda fans trying to recapture their childhood.

I really need to stop thinking so much about Zelda. :schierke:

Eluvei said:
But I also don't like A Link To The Past and kind of enjoyed the hell out of Phantom Hourglass so I probably have some disgusting taste in Zelda games or something. :ganishka:

Well, you like Link's Awakening, so I'd just say inconsistent if you don't like ALttP too, blasphemous at worst. :slan:
 

Saephon

Die young and save yourself
Griffith said:
It's the hip pick for Zelda fans under 25 because it's nebulously unique, darker and more grown up... or something. More likely it just seemed that way when you were 14.

Actually, the number one reason I love that game is because of its NPCs. For its time, the scheduled lives and multiple dialogue options the extra characters in Castle Town were a pretty welcome feature. I think my favorite experience in Majora's Mask is finally getting Anju and his girlfriend reunited, after several Groundhog Day in Hyrule moments. :iva: And then I look at Hyrule Castle Town in Twilight Princess and realize that I care for absolutely no one there...possibly because 90% of them are non-interactable character models, walking in circles. Hmm.

Griffith said:
none of the Zelda games before that had really been intentionally cutesy, per se. If you look at the first 5 games, they were just doing their best with the graphics they had

Agreed. I don't know about you, but I don't know many people younger than 12 or so who were even able to complete the first Legend of Zelda for NES. A dark world filled with monsters, an unforgivingly large world map with few clues, dungeon crawling, enemies that could actually KILL you if you didn't fight them intelligently; nothing about that game says "children's game" to me. It really makes you wonder where people get the notion that there's a precedent to easy/childish Zelda games.



Eluvei: I want to high-five you for liking Link's Awakening, but your dislike of ALttP disturbs me. :azan:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Saephon said:
Actually, the number one reason I love that game is because of its NPCs. For its time, the scheduled lives and multiple dialogue options the extra characters in Castle Town were a pretty welcome feature. I think my favorite experience in Majora's Mask is finally getting Anju and his girlfriend reunited, after several Groundhog Day in Hyrule moments. :iva: And then I look at Hyrule Castle Town in Twilight Princess and realize that I care for absolutely no one there...possibly because 90% of them are non-interactable character models, walking in circles. Hmm.

I'm the opposite, I hate talking to random NPCs, yet feel a compulsion to for completions sake, so for me too much of that is a real chore rather than a feature.

Saephon said:
Agreed. I don't know about you, but I don't know many people younger than 12 or so who were even able to complete the first Legend of Zelda for NES. A dark world filled with monsters, an unforgivingly large world map with few clues, dungeon crawling, enemies that could actually KILL you if you didn't fight them intelligently; nothing about that game says "children's game" to me. It really makes you wonder where people get the notion that there's a precedent to easy/childish Zelda games.

Yeah, thematically and practically those were by no means just kids' games.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Griffith said:
Yeah, I can't say it made me excited at all, it looks like Ocarina of Time again (literally, even the graphics :troll:). It's been said before, but this series basically got stuck on Ocarina of Time, which is the ultimate to me;

In essence OoT is a 3D remake of Zelda 3 (shame on anyone using that nonsensical US subtitle), which was itself a remake of Zelda 1.

Aphasia said:
Hey Nintendo! Here's an idea...a new IP! No? More sequels? Mario? Oh...Okay. I'll just keep quietly buying your games anyways.

You can't deny that the Mario franchise lends itself particularly well to sequels. The story in these games was always just an excuse for more platforming. No other series has been as consistently good as Mario for so long. Slapping a new IP on top of the mechanics of Super Mario Galaxy wouldn't have added anything to the game.

Aphasia said:
It makes me wonder if they ever will. Surely there will be a point people grow tired of (almost) the same gimmicks, which will push Nintendo to innovate or stagnate. Poor sonic.

They already both innovate and stagnate with every iteration. Don't know why you mention Sonic.

Aphasia said:
That's interesting, It doesn't remind me of Twilight Princess at all. It reminds me more of Windwaker and Mario Galaxy.

The cell shading is reminiscent of Wind Waker, but the engine is likely an evolution of what they used for TP.

Saephon said:
Around these parts, no one except me likes Majora's Mask or Wind Waker. Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:

What a weak trolling attempt. Have you even played and finished all the classic Zelda titles? The cowards are those who didn't finish The Adventure of Link. :azan:

Griffith said:
Speaking of Wind Waker though, I was just thinking that despite the fact that it's probably the most modern and self-aware Zelda story, it's style really did hurt it and the series. Not just from a "cool" factor because it was cute and cartoonish, but imagine if it'd looked like Twiight Princess instead. I think psychologically it would have been a very different experience, more like you were really lost exploring a vast and ominous sea with Link, less like you're playing with a toy boat.

I don't think the graphic style is the actual problem for most fans, though that was the focus when the game was first revealed because it wasn't what the GC tech demo had been like at all. The game's biggest flaw to me is how tedious sailing got after a while, especially when you have to get the triforce in the second part of the game. That was clearly a cheap trick to lengthen the game, not unlike what they was done in Metroid Prime 1 & 2.

Saephon said:
Agreed. I don't know about you, but I don't know many people younger than 12 or so who were even able to complete the first Legend of Zelda for NES. A dark world filled with monsters, an unforgivingly large world map with few clues, dungeon crawling, enemies that could actually KILL you if you didn't fight them intelligently; nothing about that game says "children's game" to me. It really makes you wonder where people get the notion that there's a precedent to easy/childish Zelda games.

How old are you? I finished Zelda 1 at age 6. You're deluded if you think the game was ever targeted at adults. Which doesn't mean that it's a "childish" game, but then again, I wouldn't say that of the later games either. Regarding the notion that "Nintendo is making games for children", it was brought about by Sega back in the day when they were trying to differentiate themselves by being the cool guys. Then Sony picked up the torch when the time came.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Aazealh said:
In essence OoT is a 3D remake of Zelda 3 (shame on anyone using that nonsensical US subtitle), which was itself a remake of Zelda 1.

Here we go again... :guts:

Saephon said:
Ocarina of Time was a fantastic 3D debut for the series and I have many fond memories. But I really believe that at its heart, it is a 3D port of A Link to the Past, albeit with a few new and well-executed gameplay mechanics.

Griffith said:
What!? A 3D port of ALttP? A few new gameplay mechanics? That's beyond poorly worded, it doesn't make sense. For the few inherent art and concept similarities they share, these two games are vastly different, like 95% different overall. How about ALL the gameplay mechanics being new and different? Literally how you see, move, explore, swing a sword, throw a bomb, shoot an arrow, or experience and interact with the game world is different from all the previous games, not just ALttP. At best, what you're saying describes a vague way to perceive the general traits inherent to the entire Zelda series, even those retained when the series was adapted to 3D, though completely different and original in their function. Otherwise, by your logic, ALttP is merely a "port" of the original Legend of Zelda to Super Nintendo, but even that isn't comparable to the fundamental differences between OoT and ALttP, and every Zelda game that came before (OoT has as much in common with Zelda II as ALttP).

I really think you're taking all that for granted after a decade of 3D gaming being the norm. Let me put it this way, if you changed the names, and maybe Link's and the Triforce's design, nobody would ever think ALttP and OoT had anything in common, let alone confuse one for an adaptation of the other.

Aazealh said:
I disagree with saying that OoT has as much in common with Zelda II as with Zelda 3. It does follow the same formula, while Zelda II was its own thing (Shadow of the Colossus follows the Zelda II formula! :troll:). And while the term "port" is inappropriate, I wouldn't be very bothered if someone called Zelda 3 a remake of Zelda 1.
 

Truder

"I frown at Griffith's nipples" -Aazealh
http://ds.ign.com/articles/115/1153885p1.html

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time 3DS remake is bundled with Master Quest.

I never played through master quest entirely before. (I quit at lord Jabu-Jabu's belly because I wanted to play other games)
but I would gladly go through it now.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Truder said:
http://ds.ign.com/articles/115/1153885p1.html

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time 3DS remake is bundled with Master Quest.

I never played through master quest entirely before. (I quit at lord Jabu-Jabu's belly because I wanted to play other games)
but I would gladly go through it now.
Yeah, I read that yesterday while in the car, and literally said out loud: "WHOOOOO!" :isidro:

I've always wanted to play the Master Quest, but never had the chance to. And I was also hoping there would be more to this 3DS version of the game than simply a straight port with some graphical enhancements. This just solidified my purchase of the game.
 

Scorpio

Courtesy of Grail's doodling.
I got stuck on the Fire Temple of MQ and decided that maybe I needed a break before I came back to it. Well, time makes fools of us all and 3 years later I wonder if the break was long enough? This might be the perfect chance to get back into it though. Color me excited as well.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Nice, in retrospect including Master Quest is a no-brainer, and I'm glad it's in retrospect of hearing they are. Should be a nice challenge for those that never completed it, I remember it threw in what would be some unfair curve balls if you weren't signed up for the challenge. On the other hand, by virtue of changing things the dungeon layouts aren't utilized as originally intended, so it's not as balanced or optimized like the regular game. A strange side effect of this is that the Water Temple is actually easier to get through. =)
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Griffith said:
Nice, in retrospect including Master Quest is a no-brainer, and I'm glad it's in retrospect of hearing they are.
It may be a no-brainer, but Nintendo has really dropped the ball as of late when they repackage older games. The worst example was how they handled Mario's 25th anniversary last year. They simply put the SNES rom of Super Mario All Stars on a fucking Wii disc, along with an art book and sold it for $30. Great...

So hearing that they're adding any extra effort for this game makes me feel relieved.

PS: Maybe we should just have a dedicated Zelda thread at this point...
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Walter said:
It may be a no-brainer, but Nintendo has really dropped the ball as of late when they repackage older games. The worst example was how they handled Mario's 25th anniversary last year. They simply put the SNES rom of Super Mario All Stars on a fucking Wii disc, along with an art book and sold it for $30. Great...

So hearing that they're adding any extra effort for this game makes me feel relieved.

Gross, and yeah, this is exactly the type of thing we'd be asking, "Why wasn't this included!?" after the fact, so good for Nintendo.

Walter said:
PS: Maybe we should just have a dedicated Zelda thread at this point...

Indeed, though I sure wouldn't want to collect all the previous lengthy Zelda discussions to put into it...

Actually, that's a lie, I would. =)



Update: And... done.

There was literally five previous Zelda threads to merge, and numerous conversations in other game threads obviously; now they're one, and with new OP (edits/suggestions welcome, though I think the thread is pretty self-explanatory):

Griffith said:
Welcome to The Thread of Zelda (tentative title). Now you can see me making the same posts about Zelda today as we were five years ago, all in one place! :griffnotevil:

Also let me know if any non-Zelda posts, or ones that relied heavily on the context of their original thread, somehow slipped through the cracks so I can return them to where they belong, and vice versa if you see complete Zelda posts I missed. This was relatively easy to divide up though; it just goes to show that when people talk Zelda, they talk Zelda. :slan:
 

Truder

"I frown at Griffith's nipples" -Aazealh
I was planning on making a Zelda thread before.. I was going to put down a huge amount of info in celebration of the 25th anniversary but I just got lazy and never did it.

one of you guys should totally do it though :troll:
 

nomad

"Bring the light of day"
Walter said:
It may be a no-brainer, but Nintendo has really dropped the ball as of late when they repackage older games. The worst example was how they handled Mario's 25th anniversary last year. They simply put the SNES rom of Super Mario All Stars on a fucking Wii disc, along with an art book and sold it for $30. Great...

You forgot the supposed CD soundtrack, that ended up being a couple of sound bytes from the original game. :schnoz:
 
Cool stuff here: http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/iwata/iwata_asks_-_zelda_handheld_history_15603_15604.html

zeldaST_vol2_17.jpg


Takashi Tezuka said:
I was talking about fashioning Link’s Awakening with a feel that was somewhat like Twin Peaks. At the time, Twin Peaks was rather popular. The drama was all about a small number of characters in a small town.
 

Saephon

Die young and save yourself
Okay, as someone who never got a chance to play the Master Quest, that does appeal to me. I suppose I may actually buy the 3DS port now. I'm still not too pleased about the graphical changes though, at least character-wise. There's something off about Link's face; I really prefer the way he looked originally.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Nomad said:
You forgot the supposed CD soundtrack, that ended up being a couple of sound bytes from the original game. :schnoz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-3XbeRzISc

I was talking about fashioning Link’s Awakening with a feel that was somewhat like Twin Peaks. At the time, Twin Peaks was rather popular. The drama was all about a small number of characters in a small town.
Wow, seriously, wtf. I guess I .. sort of see a connection, vaguely. But despite Link's Awakening being all
a dream OR IS IT
, Twin Peaks is still far more surreal.
 
Was anyone else as crazy as I was about Zelda Four Swords Adventure? I still laugh out loud when you have throw one of your 4 counter-parts across pit falls.
 

Truder

"I frown at Griffith's nipples" -Aazealh
i missed out on that one, but i did play the one on gameboy. with 2 other friends.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Death May Die said:
Was anyone else as crazy as I was about Zelda Four Swords Adventure? I still laugh out loud when you have throw one of your 4 counter-parts across pit falls.
I never got a chance to because of all the bullshit hoops you had to jump through in order to play it. GBA + link cable (for each player) + GameCube. Just ridiculous...
 
You guys are missing out. Simply find the GC game, that's all you need. You can play entire game single player and still control all four characters. (Co-Players not needed and GBA/Link Cables not needed. ) Seriously, check it out!

Plus, the GC game has more than its GBA counterpart. Its actually a upgraded version of the game I believe.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPWBJ7TV-Xk

This is the GDC trailer for Skyward Sword. Listen to it for a bit, then fast-forward over to around the 1 minute mark and keep listening for a surprise. :isidro:
 
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