Author Topic: Movies you've recently watched  (Read 184541 times)

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Offline NCHaskew

Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1300 on: April 30, 2018, 03:04:34 AM »
Er, well, I'd say it's closer to DVD, so to speak. I mean, it's not Schindler's List or anything. =) I'm not even sure it's actually a better film than The Last Jedi, but certainly more fun and delivers to expectations.

I think by dint of that alone, it's better than the Last Jedi. It actually paid off plot threads, instead of going "oh, oh these plot threads? Oh those don't matter."

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1301 on: April 30, 2018, 10:43:31 AM »
One thing I dislike about the MCU movies in general, and already touched on by Griffith, is how uncreative and inconsequential their supernatural fights are, for example, there are clear distinctions of power between Berserk characters, Guts is physically stronger than Serpico, Zodd is physically stronger than Guts, Grunbeld is Physically stronger than Zodd, physical weapons cannot hurt the God Hand, Apsotles can't be harmed with superficial wounds. But with characters like Thor, and Hulk, I have no idea what their boundaries are, Thor can be knocked around by Thanos, but also tolerate the raw power of a star, Thanos can tolerate the blows of the Hulk, but can be stabbed by Gamora, Dr Strange, a character who was horribly mangled in a car wreck, survives Thanos with a few cuts and bruises, it's very confusing. That being said I enjoyed Infinity War, it was a very effective culmination of what they built up to so far.

I found Thanos' motivation a little generic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Qo6Y1cyhI, though it was portrayed very effectively, Thanos doesn't commit atrocities out of malice or hatred of all life, but because he honestly believes it's the right thing to do, he treats his opponents with reverance and respect that reminds of Ken Oh from Fist of the North Star. Not only that but he has to make personal sacrifices in order to reach his goal, it's a desire he must commit to absolutely, and in that respect he is a lot like  :griffnotevil: , speaking of which there is a moment in the film that bares an uncanny resemblance to a certain iconic scene in Berserk, which I am 90% sure they lifted from the Berserk movie.

Though it's expected that the outcome would turn out this way, I'm glad they had the courage to let the villain win, ultimately the events of this film are going to be reversed, but it at least gives IW an effective cliffhanger for part 2, I hope to see Thanos fighting the most powerful celestial beings in the MCU in the sequel, however his gauntlet has been damaged after weilding the full power of the stones, he may not have the power left to fight against literal space gods.
 


« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 07:15:27 PM by MrFlibble »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1302 on: April 30, 2018, 06:56:48 PM »
I think by dint of that alone, it's better than the Last Jedi. It actually paid off plot threads, instead of going "oh, oh these plot threads? Oh those don't matter."

Not to relitigate that here but that's kind of a popular misnomer. If anything it went to some pains to meticulously tie off previous plot threads in favor of threads and themes of its own. People just didn't like that, obviously; but it wasn't some great loss ("WHO IS SNOKE/REY!?") or storytelling malpractice, especially by comparison to the pretty simple, and recycled, themes of its predecessor. I'm more salty about the overall treatment of Luke Skywalker, which, while fine for a one off story, shouldn't have been a definitive take on the character in his big screen return.

One thing I dislike about the MCU movies in general, and already touched on by Griffith, is how uncreative and inconsequential their supernatural fights are, for example, there are clear distinctions of power between Berserk characters, Guts is physically stronger than Serpico, Zodd is physically stronger than Guts, Grunbeld is Physically stronger than Zodd, physical weapons cannot hurt the God Hand, Apsotles can't be harmed with superficial wounds. But with characters like Thor, and Hulk, I have no idea what their boundaries are, Thor can be knocked around by Thanos, but also tolerate the raw power of a star, Thanos can tolerate the blows of the Hulk, but can be stabbed by Gamora, Dr Strange, a character who was horribly mangled in a car wreck, survives Thanos with a few cuts and bruises, it's very confusing. That being said I enjoyed Infinity War, it was very effective culmination of what they built up to so far.

Yeah, I don't get what the point of showing the disparity in power with Hulk and Thanos was because it wasn't a factor anymore and just threw off the "scale" for everyone else. Same with Hulk being unwilling to come out because it's not like he'd have made the difference, so why not have him SMASH lesser baddies? Thor is probably the best example though as you point out; sometimes he just seems like a really strong person, like a notch above Captain America (who himself can seem wildly overpowered), other times he's stronger than Hulk or seemingly anybody or anything. *shrugs*
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 07:23:40 PM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1303 on: May 05, 2018, 02:05:40 AM »
I made time for Infinity War. My simple review: I shouldn't watch Marvel movies. I'm the worst at it.

Just because something is big doesn't mean that it has weight.  That's what I walked out of the theater thinking. And if
 you simply read that and not the spoilers below, you won't have missed much. My impressions all stem from that problem.

Stakes what are they exactly in a multi-million-dollar Marvel movie franchise (a franchise that has become the de-facto life blood of modern movie making)? Wait, don't answer that. Better yet, forget I asked the question, because I just ruined the whole fucking endeavor here. What weight does "death" have in this kind of scenario? I acknowledge most movies are hinged upon the suspension of disbelief. And this isn't normally a stumbling block with me, because I get it, ("Are the good guys gonna win, dad?" "Of course, son.") but my god, don't attempt to rub my face in this faux-despair throughout the whole movie. Because the harder they try to lay it on thick that NO FOR REAL EVERYONE'S DEAD, the more profoundly unreal it feels.

The fundamental problem I have with all superhero stories, especially crossover stories, is that the stakes rarely feel real. This movie certainly doesn't escape that problem, because it constantly draws attention to itself. However, the writers did their best within the scope of what Marvel movies seem to allow (Thor should definitely have gone for the head, what the actual fuck). But honestly, I'm in my mid-30s. What am I actually supposed to feel when Spider-Man becomes dust and blows away in the wind? Am I supposed to mourn? Am I realistically supposed to be momentarily fooled into thinking they won't find a way to revive these multi-million franchise heroes?

It seems to me they found the right villain to tie together all the various threads the Marvel film business has cast out over the past decade. Thanos is cool. I mean, maybe not this Thanos. But it was the right character for the job. But when it came time to actually manifest Thanos' increasing cosmic powers, big punches, force pulls and teleports were all they came up with. There wasn't nearly enough creativity on display, given the scope of his powers. This is symptomatic of the lazy writing evident throughout the film, culminating mostly in Thanos (speaking of lazy, he really did wear his goddamned space wife-beater for 90% of it, didnt he? Christ). The motivation behind his ambition was flimsy (he lobbied city council to kill half the planet and they disagreed with his assessment, so now he's gotta become mayor of the universe himself to get anything done around here). The extent of his powers never made a lot of sense, which just got weirder over time, as he inherited more and more nuanced power (did he put that "soul gem" to use?) And the attempt to humanize him in several scenes just fell completely flat. Lots of checks being cashed. Not much in the bank.

I was actually impressed, like Griff said earlier, that despite the seemingly unwieldy cast, this doesn't feel any more like a big dumb movie than all the other Marvel movie mashups. Segregating everyone into three mini-movies seems to have worked from a screenwriting perspective, but it made a lot of assumptions to get there (like the audience actually caring about the Wakanda fight, which speaking of stakes, had about as much as that airport brawl in Civil War). I liked Thor's plot the best, and felt it delivered the most from beginning to end. Really felt nothing at all for the others. Has the Hulk done anything cool since the first Avengers movie...? What a waste of a character...

Regarding Quill being a frustrating, lovesick dumbass, ruining the best opportunity they had to eliminate the threat -- I found it fine. Dude was stricken. I think it'd have been strange if he just sat by after he learned about Gamorrah's fate.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 02:21:03 AM by Walter »
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Offline NCHaskew

Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1304 on: May 05, 2018, 05:14:31 AM »
I made time for Infinity War. My simple review: I shouldn't watch Marvel movies. I'm the worst at it.

Just because something is big doesn't mean that it has weight.

Phew boy, your Marvel fatigue sounds even worse than mine. I definitely understand your complaints, although I wouldn't say death has no stakes at all in the film, as I'm pretty sure every one who was directly killed and not snapped away is actually dead. Which already gives it the highest body count of characters who matter than the entirety of the MCU combined.

Of course, with superheroes being the money tree they are and Disney being the movie factory it is, of course we're going to get a healthy dose of resurrections. But I'd wager we'll probably get a trade off by losing all or most of those not snapped away--mainly because RDJ, Ruffalow, and Evans are kinda done with the characters.

As for Thanos, I love this iteration. I won't go overboard with how "amazing" and "deep" his motivation is like everyone else, but I can at least sympathize with him more than the dude who wants to kill half the universe so his female persona of death will want to fuck him. And he's a cut above the rest of the MCU--though admittedly, not a high bar to jump over.


Overall, I think it has a good deal more substance than the MCU's typical drivel.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1305 on: May 05, 2018, 10:12:05 PM »
I don't disagree with most specific complaints Walter makes, except I have absolutely come to hate the buzzword "stakes" in regards to these movies and find it to have become a meaningless catch-all for people just not liking them, when, as Walter points out, pretty much all movies and stories have about the same problem with stakes, which has not-so-coincidentally become the talking point du jour in pop storytelling critique, particularly these movies, the last few years. As a matter of fact, I'd argue most stories don't have "real stakes" by these vague definitions, or ANY stories by literal definitions (they'ere not real =), because unless it's a really effective drama where that's specifically the point, and usually no less manipulative than this movie, nobody cares about most characters living or dying in a standalone story or short series because they're mostly there to ultimately die anyway and disposable. In a vacuum it's actually a weird point to make that it's bad these characters aren't just disposable cannon fodder (not that they're of great depth either, but they do have longer histories than most, and have more stories to tell). Let me use an exercise appropriate to this board: Has Berserk any stakes anymore? Has it had stakes since volume 13 (did it then when we knew the outcome)? When Guts and co. were battling the Sea God, were you afraid he or any of the main cast of heroes would die? Were you disappointed, annoyed or even angry when they didn't and yet the characters took this exercise seriously!? How about the numerous other similarly "stakeless" battles they regularly engage in? This isn't a criticism of Berserk to defend these dopey bubblegum Marvel movies, it's not a criticism at all, it's just to point out that this is how most stories, especially action stories, work most of the time. You don't have to like it, or all of them, we can pick and choose, based on other objective or subjective qualities, but that's what it is, preference (maybe you just don't think these are otherwise much better than Transformers). It's not some great objective philosophical defect, even capitalism (since that's the other lazy, or crazy, talking point against these movies), specific or intrinsic to these stories. These are just light, fun, ultimately dumb, though relatively impressively made movies (show me their betters in the genre) which when kept in perspective shouldn't make you burst into tears with heartfelt emotion or roll your eyes in annoyance (though the Russos continue to make things like the Mad Titan as mundane as a mall in Atlanta, for better or worse =). They shouldn't be taken that seriously. To paraphrase an old French phrase for those that have some existential problem with these movies: Let them eat popcorn. :griffnotevil:


tl:dr

« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 11:44:20 PM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1306 on: May 06, 2018, 12:00:59 AM »
Phew boy, your Marvel fatigue sounds even worse than mine.

Well I've made no secret of that on the forum. Seeing this movie was a big gamble on my part, and I really blew it guys.

I wouldn't say death has no stakes at all in the film, as I'm pretty sure every one who was directly killed and not snapped away is actually dead. Which already gives it the highest body count of characters who matter than the entirety of the MCU combined.

I genuinely had to stop and think about a named character that actually was directly killed. Not even Gamora qualifies, since her "death" was the most nuanced in the movie. I don't doubt there were others, but could you let me know who they were? :ganishka:

Has Berserk any stakes anymore? Has it had stakes since volume 13 (did it then when we knew the outcome)?

In Berserk when someone dies, they stay dead. I don't think the same consistency is going to apply to a character like Spider-Man. And why should it? These are characters in name only. In actuality, they're brands, and they are more important now as brands than they ever have been. The actors help this little spell work on-screen, but their 2-3 year release schedule dictates their story arcs, and they aren't allowed to evolve beyond a threshold that violates that. So don't make the threat. Work around it, go a different direction, make the stakes different. Iron Man and Cap's ongoing lovers feud is a great example of working within the boundaries of a franchise setting and still allowing for earnest character development. But c'mon guys, don't place the one thing you can't actually do at the emotional heart of your movie and expect the audience not to call bullshit.

Which is why this movie in particular doesn't work for me, moreso than most Marvel movies, in which the above circumstances are, naturally, always in place, but aren't a glaringly obvious flaw in the overall suspense of the work. This was my whole point, and the part of my argument that you seemingly disregarded. I'm fine with the game of stakes being played in most works of fiction, because normally the threat of death isn't being lorded over us the entire movie.

I think Berserk is a particularly terrible comparison for Marvel. Miura has made substantial changes to his series, and his characters have genuinely developed and grown naturally as time has passed. Where will Guts be in 10 volumes? No fucking clue. Where will Spider-Man be in 10 movies? Gonna say ... probably New York City. So sure, the main cast in Berserk has stuck around in one form or another for more than 20 years. But the looming threat in Berserk is rarely just "death," because Miura knows how this game is played, and brings that card up only when he's actually going to follow through with it, or can at least trick us into believing it. 

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When Guts and co. were battling the Sea God, were you afraid he or any of the main cast of heroes would die?

Actually, this was a good example of Guts' survival not being in question, but the condition of his body, and how he would survive that carried the suspense. Guts' wounds stick around. So of course he will endure, but HOW will he endure? That's suspense that works. Not impending, finger-snapping death at the climax of "Part 1 of 2."

That trick works for Miura because he has the authority to make substantial changes like that, and he's done so on numerous occasions. Marvel's screenwriter de jour doesn't, and they never will, so they shouldn't be playing with those cards if they want us to take any of this seriously and not just groan. I feel like you must know this, because I've explained my distaste for superhero comics before, and why I fell in love with Berserk.

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I have absolutely come to hate the buzzword "stakes" in regards to these movies and find it to have become a meaningless catch-all for people just not liking them

Pretend just for a moment that I don't read any other Marvel reviews beyond this forum.  :ganishka:

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even capitalism (since that's the other lazy, or crazy, talking point against these movies),

What's crazy to me is that you can divorce yourself from the business side of these movies. For multi-part stories like these that demand such a time investment of its viewers, I expect some actual development to compensate, not a continual return to a neutral state. That hasn't worked for me since I was about 12 years old. So for the past few years for me, it's less a New Exciting Movie Experience than watching a circuitous machine complete another rotation.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 12:35:08 AM by Walter »
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1307 on: May 06, 2018, 12:55:16 AM »
And yet in Berserk when someone dies, they stay dead.

That's why secretly nobody dies. =)

BTW, here's another phrase I hate that gets bandied about in these situations: "Plot Armor" Everyone quit pretending to be so clever or just stop reading stories if you can't help but see through them at every moment. It's like saying, "I cant take this seriously because I know it's just some guy writing it." Yes, that's what fiction is. It was probably also written for money! Speaking of which...

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I don't think the same consistency is going to apply to a character like Spider-Man. And why should it? These are characters in name only. In actuality, they're brands, and they are more important now as brands than they ever have been. The actors help this little spell work on-screen, but their 2-3 year release schedule dictates their story arcs, and they aren't allowed to evolve to a point that violates that.

Oh man, I keep forgetting what an unrepentant hippie you are on this front. =) I for one welcome the comforting blanket our corporate overlords pull over our eyes! Seriously, I will point out those things, being characters and being brands,  aren't mutually exclusive, or to effective and entertaining storytelling, even if it's a turn off for you. Tony Stark has changed and evolved in his MCU tenure, and also like Captain America will likely die, but I don't think that's going to change your mind because that's not really the problem.

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So don't make the threat. Work around it, go a different direction, make the stakes different, because that threat simply holds no weight within this franchise context. Which is why this movie in particular doesn't work for me, moreso than most Marvel movies, in which the above circumstances are always in place, but aren't a glaringly obvious flaw in the overall suspense of the work. Which was my whole point, and the part of my argument that you seemingly disregarded. I'm fine with the game of stakes being played in most works of fiction, because normally the threat of death isn't being lorded over us the entire movie.

I didn't mean to disregard that argument, I just didn't have the same experience because it didn't feel inappropriately lorded over or I wasn't offended by it because I kind of take that for granted from the outset, but like you said about Quill needing to care in his moment, I don't hold it against the characters and their reality for taking death seriously even though I know most of them won't actually die.

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I think Berserk is a particularly terrible comparison for this.

Oh, they can't even compare, but I'm not comparing the quality of the works or even the works themselves but conventions therein. Conventions which you're seemingly hyper aware of in these Marvel stories but give no thought to in Berserk's own monster "Marvel" fights. That's probably because Berserk is so much better that it's less apparent and not annoyingly so, but we acknowledge this is a monster fighting action story where they'll regularly do that and not get eaten, yet I think you're also biased against these Marvel movies and pick them apart on a higher level than they even deserve considering (I haven't even seen them all =). I'm not trying to inoculate them from criticism either, but like I said it's pretty high level criticism for something one doesn't even hold in that high regard. It's almost doing it a service, elevating with deep criticism; just say it's crap and I'd get it.

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Miura has the authority to make substantial changes like that, and he's done so on numerous occasions. Marvel's screenwriter de jour doesn't, and they never will, so they shouldn't be playing with those cards if they want us to take any of this seriously and not just groan. I feel like you must know this, because I've explained my distaste for superhero comics before, and why I fell in love with Berserk.

It's a fair point, especially the difference between western comics in general and a work like Berserk, which we all hold in highest regard if it's not our favorite piece of literature, but I'd still point out that, on their own level, the Marvel characters have evolved and changed and had stakes beyond death in all the ways you cited, particularly their well being and their relationships to society and each other, but your innate reaction is to groan and disregard it. I don't know what it's supposed to do differently for what it is.

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Also, I didn't know that "stakes" had become a buzzword. I honestly don't read movie review sites when it comes to Marvel movies, so I don't know what the zeitgeist is around these things beyond this forum. So when I use the word stakes, I'm using it genuinely, and for its original definition.

Yeah, I've seen innumerable blog posts, reviews, comments etc selectively complaining about STAKES in regards to these movies the last few years (relative to... IDK, real life? Bull fights maybe =). It's the go-to thing for genuine critics and even fans alike to lazily throw out there and as I said I HATE it at this point and think it's an odd sort of laughably high minded analysis of light entertainment that amounts to live action cartoons (but where are THE STAKES!?). Like, if they're too good for these silly movies, no problem, just say so, but spare us the deeply considered deconstruction then. Glad to know you're coming at it from something of an outside place though. Seriously, if you hadn't used that word I'd have just replied apologetically about your experience and with equal befuddlement about the use of the Hulk... I have a theory about that though.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 01:12:44 AM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1308 on: May 06, 2018, 01:27:58 AM »
BTW, here's another phrase I hate that gets bandied about in these situations: "Plot Armor" Everyone quit pretending to be so clever or just stop reading stories if you can't help but see through them at every moment.

Agreed, this is also why I hate sites like TV Tropes that try to distill every story beat down into a litany of derogatory phrases ("They fridged Casca for 20 years!" Fuck off.).

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Oh man, I keep forgetting what an unrepentant hippie you are on this front. =) I for one welcome the comforting blanket our corporate overlords pull over our eyes! Seriously, I will point out those things, being characters and being brands,  aren't mutually exclusive, or to effective and entertaining storytelling, even if it's a turn off for you. Tony Stark has changed and evolved in his MCU tenure, and also like Captain America will likely die, but I don't think that's going to change your mind because that's not really the problem.

I get what you're saying here, but I'm not anti-brand, or anti-capitalism (well...). I just recognize that a "story" from a deeply entrenched franchise has some explicit boundaries, and historically, those are deal-breakers that prevent me from engaging with them. BTW, the origin for these firmly rooted feelings likely come from growing up on '90s American comics, and realizing what a circular hellhole it all was after about 5 years. And it's not just Marvel movies that frustrate me like this, it's pretty much any story where the writers seem stricken with fear to evolve the story beyond a comfortable neutral zone.

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Tony Stark has changed and evolved in his MCU tenure

This is a strange tangent to open up after this lengthy discussion, but I genuinely do not see that evidenced in this movie. Take this Tony, put him alongside Iron Man 2 Tony ("I'm a rockstar superhero"), what's the difference?

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I think you're also biased against these Marvel movies and pick them apart on a higher level than they even deserve considering.

Listen, if these goddamned things were just a novelty, and came out every 5 years or so, they wouldn't receive such derisive commentary from me. But they have literally swallowed the film industry whole. I'd probably be levying the same criticism against Pirates of the Caribbean 8 if those movies were so successful and so dominated our pop culture.  The difference is of course that Pirates does not resonate with me at all, but with Marvel ... we've got a history  :mozgus:

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just say it's crap and I'd get it.

It's mostly crap.

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t I'd still point out that, on their own level, the Marvel characters have evolved and changed and had stakes beyond death in all the ways you cited, particularly their well being and their relationships to society and each other

It's all too circular for me too eager to return to equilibrium. I don't mean to sound dismissive, I just don't care enough about the subject matter to explain myself beyond this. I've also skipped about 1/3 of the last 5 years worth of movies (what is that, 20?)

Side point, but in typical Walter fashion, I've devised the perfect counterpoint to my own argument: This kind of trumped-up death has to occur at this point in the franchise, because they've danced around the potential of lasting consequences for years in the movies. So it's really up to Part 2 to deliver on that. We'll see!  :void:

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I HATE it at this point and think it's an odd sort of laughably high minded analysis of light entertainment that amounts to live action cartoons (but where are THE STAKES!?).

It is funny when you put it in that context, because it's true (What are the stakes for Snake Eyes' infiltration into Cobra Commander's HQ?!). But outside real-talk like this, that is not how these movies are perceived by the general public. I'm not sure what your office environment is like, but let me be the first to tell you, there are people that take these movies very, very seriously. So I'd bet that "serious" reviews are a response to that sentiment. My own review, it's just my honest take, for the eyes of members of this forum.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 01:51:29 AM by Walter »
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1309 on: May 06, 2018, 03:47:05 AM »
Agreed, this is also why I hate sites like TV Tropes that try to distill every story beat down into a litany of derogatory phrases ("They fridged Casca for 20 years!" Fuck off.).

Ugh, yeah.

I get what you're saying here, but I'm not anti-brand, or anti-capitalism (well...). I just recognize that a "story" from a deeply entrenched franchise has some explicit boundaries, and historically, those are deal-breakers that prevent me from engaging with them. BTW, the origin for these firmly rooted feelings likely come from growing up on '90s American comics, and realizing what a circular hellhole it all was after about 5 years. And it's not just Marvel movies that frustrate me like this, it's pretty much any story where the writers seem stricken with fear to evolve the story beyond a comfortable neutral zone.

I know what you mean about parameters in place at the extremes of what they can actually do, or the lack thereof... for example, none of these big characters will have a fixed literary "life", die, and that's all we're left with them as with someone you really know. They're always going to be back in some, by default, watered down form. I guess I give benefit of the doubt, or am just naive, about the "neutral zone" in that I just judge them as lazy or un-creative rather than run by brand interests.

This is a strange tangent to open up after this lengthy discussion, but I genuinely do not see that evidenced in this movie. Take this Tony, put him alongside Iron Man 2 Tony ("I'm a rockstar superhero"), what's the difference?

Well... he wanted to settle down and have children, he's selfless now, cares about his allies, feels a deep, arguably unhealthy responsibility for them such as his surrogate father relationship with Spider-Man. I mean, he still makes dumb cocky jokes, but he's not the same guy as Iron Man 1 & 2. Also, to your point, he's gone to even further extremes in other films than this one, Iron Man 3, Ultron, Civil War, so you could argue they still sort of revert to the mean, but I'd argue that's not really fair. Same with Steve Rodgers, who, while not exactly super deep, has become more like Captain Anti-Government Authority than the 50's pro-America propaganda character. :ganishka:

Listen, if these goddamned things were just a novelty, and came out every 5 years or so, they wouldn't receive such derisive commentary from me. But they have literally swallowed the film industry whole. I'd probably be levying the same criticism against Pirates of the Caribbean 8 if those movies were so successful and so dominated our pop culture.  The difference is of course that Pirates does not resonate with me at all, but with Marvel ... we've got a history  :mozgus:

Well, there's the rub, I've got history with it as well, but to my casual enjoyment at this somehow becoming the biggest thing in entertainment after being a relatively niche interest and historically a big screen failure. For me, it's just fun and I'm happy to see something I enjoyed succeed on scales so grand I hardly consider that it might be... a bad thing!? You, on the other hand, are making it bear the weight of it's now outsized position in our popular culture, of which it is most certainly not worthy as a story. As a production project though, it's very impressive, and I think that goes for creating a shared universe and characters for 20 films and 10 years, etc. There's something laudable in that, even for purists. I just think that it's become THE RULE instead of an exception that's made it a bit much. Like I said though, I'm enjoying these on the the same level I did the 90's X-Men cartoon, and they're probably not even that deep. Where's Morph to give it stakes!? :carcus:

It's all too circular for me too eager to return to equilibrium. I don't mean to sound dismissive, I just don't care enough about the subject matter to explain myself beyond this. I've also skipped about 1/3 of the last 5 years worth of movies (what is that, 20?)

Geez, tell us how dismissive you really feel! Also, skipping a bunch of the movies where the characters show different sides of themselves might be affecting how you view their depth, arcs and/or lack thereof. I mean, there's not much for them to do in these big mashups if that's when you're checking in.

Side point, but in typical Walter fashion, I've devised the perfect counterpoint to my own argument: This kind of trumped-up death has to occur at this point in the franchise, because they've danced around the potential of lasting consequences for years in the movies. So it's really up to Part 2 to deliver on that. We'll see!  :void:

Yeah, and I think we'll get some, arguably, significant deaths, at least one, but again, that's by reading the contract tea leaves. The ultimate would be to just have said character(s) survive and ride off into the sunset and take the stance, "Yeah, we just don't kill our heroes, even when the actor leaves."

It is funny when you put it in that context, because it's true (What are the stakes for Snake Eyes' infiltration into Cobra Commander's HQ?!). But outside real-talk like this, that is not how these movies are perceived by the general public. I'm not sure what your office environment is like, but let me be the first to tell you, there are people that take these movies very, very seriously. So I'd bet that "serious" reviews are a response to that sentiment. My own review, it's just my honest take, for the eyes of members of this forum.

Yeah, part of what grosses me out are the fans of it that take these so dreadfully seriously that they're bitching about developments like it's trampling sacred ground ("This isn't worthy of the foundations laid by Iron Man 3 and Thor 3!"). You're obviously not coming from that perspective, and I can understand why you're so put out by the mediocrity of these when they've gone from fun and relatively successful comic movies to like how we choose to represent ourselves as a culture or something...? At least it's not Fate of the Furious. =)

Offline Zeke

Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1310 on: May 06, 2018, 05:10:47 AM »
Quote
It is funny when you put it in that context, because it's true (What are the stakes for Snake Eyes' infiltration into Cobra Commander's HQ?!). But outside real-talk like this, that is not how these movies are perceived by the general public. I'm not sure what your office environment is like, but let me be the first to tell you, there are people that take these movies very, very seriously. So I'd bet that "serious" reviews are a response to that sentiment. My own review, it's just my honest take, for the eyes of members of this forum.

Really?  Many of my co workers saw the movie and simply said that they had a fun time; I guess that's the difference in discussion one would expect between an office and a warehouse environment.

Quote
Yeah, part of what grosses me out are the fans of it that take these so dreadfully seriously that they're bitching about developments like it's trampling sacred ground ("This isn't worthy of the foundations laid by Iron Man 3 and Thor 3!"). You're obviously not coming from that perspective, and I can understand why you're so put out by the mediocrity of these when they've gone from fun and relatively successful comic movies to like how we choose to represent ourselves as a culture or something...? At least it's not Fate of the Furious. =)

This type of superficiality isn't too surprising, since our larger culture is basically t.v, tits, and hamburgers.


I recently watched John Carpenter's "The Thing", and loved it.  Fantastic effects and strong performances.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1311 on: May 06, 2018, 03:25:59 PM »
Really?  Many of my co workers saw the movie and simply said that they had a fun time; I guess that's the difference in discussion one would expect between an office and a warehouse environment.

Ha, my experience was closer to yours than Wally's, but I work in a large combination collegiate/service/office environment where most people would just enjoy them as event blockbusters and then I have a few specific people I can geek out on them more specifically with. I'm usually the contrarian of the bunch, but I actually liked Infinity War but my default reaction is to overscrutinize and be disappointed with everything and come around later if at all. Marvel is actually one of the few exceptions where I've been impressed initially, particularly with Civil War, because for better or worse their consistency lets me know what to expect, so if they do more or better, like, "Hey, this got real dark and personal!" I'll give them extra credit just for being better than mediocre in that format (in retrospect CW is probably a big silly mess, but I'm giving it credit for the sum of its parts, however they fit). It's the theory of disproportionatly low expectations to product decency that makes something seem even more impressive than it is, my favorite examples: Pirates of the Caribbean, The Hangover, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and Edge of Tomorrow for you real nerds. Marvel has thrived off this discrepancy starting with Iron Man, and whatever higher expectations or fatigue factor there is sure hasn't affected the bottom line.

Quote
This type of superficiality isn't too surprising, since our larger culture is basically t.v, tits, and hamburgers.

Just look at our leadership. :griffnotevil:

Quote
I recently watched John Carpenter's "The Thing", and loved it.  Fantastic effects and strong performances.

A contender for the most on point comment in the thread.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1312 on: May 06, 2018, 07:22:27 PM »
Finally, after half a century of being out, I watched 12 Angry Men. Easily in my top 5.

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1313 on: May 30, 2018, 04:02:39 PM »
While I'm at it, I also recently saw Annihilation, which is a better-than-average sci-fi movie starring Natalie Portman. Recommended for fans of the genre.

I watched it twice in the theater, the second time was a week apart. I'm always skeptical about calling movies good because of their lasting power and watching it just a week apart, I wasn't bored and actually enjoyed it all the more. Definitely good! Thematically it's like Ex Machina in the way it ended and I appreciated the slowburn beginning leading up to it's darker moments, suspense and the third make-or-break act. Of the 2 sets of friends I went with, some of them either thought the third act was too weird or could've been part of a totally different movie or weren't convinced with the outcome of it but not in a "What do you think happened at the end of Inception?" kind of way. Questions about purpose, motives were discussed instead. So all in all, this was a sure keeper.

Fantastic movie. I don't own physical copies of many movies, but I do have a copy of that one on DVD, and that says a lot about my opinion of it.

Lovely soundtrack and worth keeping on DVD/ BR. The end is visually striking and suffocating at times.

I watched Han Solo last night. There was something basic I wasn't down with - Han. Outside of that character, everyone else and the story was all the action adventure that could be in a Star Wars film. The old formula done well. Great visuals here and there. I was surprised to see a certain someone to appear towards the end of the film. The actor playing Lando (forget his name but he's everywhere ... the Atlanta chap) nailed Lando. Speaking of Marvel fatigue, I felt like I'd just watched another Star Wars movie only to find myself watching this a few months apart. That awe of rushing to see it wasn't there for me personally and I would've gladly waited for it on DVD/ BR if my friends hadn't got me a ticket.
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1314 on: May 31, 2018, 07:42:00 PM »
Speaking of Marvel fatigue, I felt like I'd just watched another Star Wars movie only to find myself watching this a few months apart. That awe of rushing to see it wasn't there for me personally and I would've gladly waited for it on DVD/ BR if my friends hadn't got me a ticket.

Yeah, I think this is a much bigger factor for these Star Wars movies because they're already kind of trying to turn a bunch of ensemble characters into Solo :badbone: acts, and these can't very well be "event" movies when they're literally coming out 5 months apart. Even one a year is too many, and only worked because of the novelty of a new sequential trilogy and the first EU movie, but I'm basically good after The Last Jedi. Everyone got a lot of mileage out of that buzz/conversation-wise and a little Star Wars goes a long way. They might have a big problem soon when they realize nobody gives a shit now that all the old timers are gone (Luke might need to come back to life; if so, get that money, Mark) and nobody wants to watch the "Ant-Man" of Star Wars or a bunch of new made up characters that are just cribbing the old ones anyway. As a matter of fact, the fewer Star Wars movies the better they are, which is why so many basically just stick to ANH and TESB.

Offline slqn

Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1315 on: June 07, 2018, 09:10:22 AM »
recently watched taxi driver, the pick-up artist, the driver and die hard
they're old films but all very good

Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1316 on: June 16, 2018, 11:11:25 AM »
Hereditary was a trip. A cinema experience like I haven't had in ages. Go watch it. It deserves the hype. I can't wait to go back.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1317 on: June 16, 2018, 12:41:35 PM »
Hereditary was a trip. A cinema experience like I haven't had in ages. Go watch it. It deserves the hype. I can't wait to go back.

People love or hate this one, so sounds pretty good! I've heard favorable comparisons to The VVitch.

Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1318 on: June 16, 2018, 01:31:38 PM »
People love or hate this one, so sounds pretty good! I've heard favorable comparisons to The VVitch.

A24 is usually a sign of quality. I still favor the Witch slightly (need to rewatch it), and I can see how that one can be more divisive.
Hereditary mixes art-house with mainstream pretty well, has some classic horror scares while still delivering a deeply emotional, complex family drama. The third act falls apart slightly by trying to cater to the new-horror crowd, but I was already so in for the ride that I didn't let some of the obvious scenes bother me (still, they're done with gusto and elegance).

I hope these movies start a new trend in horror by going back to the slow-burn, more mature themed movies like Rosemary's Baby or The Exorcist, skipping what the 80's did to the genre (even though kid me loved Freddy). The Suspiria remake (surprisingly helmed by a renowned director) looks amazing as well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KS2Xk8LJYA - great music by Thom Yorke.

Support these movies.
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
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Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1319 on: June 17, 2018, 05:43:58 PM »
Agree with Nighty above and that trailer for the remake got a lot of ppfftt or "why does it need a remake reaction" with the group I went with and I ended up being the only fellow who actually liked it.

I loved The Witch and Hereditary I thought was unsettling and bloody damn good. I'm not much of an anxious person but the mood, music raised my anxiety a couple of times through the film. The 2nd act of the film is where it's a bit of a slow-burn but not by much and I like slow-burn anyway, so I didn't mind it at all. Some scenes drag a little longer so characters can breathe a bit and their emotions can be wholly fleshed out. The music was brooding, suffocating and the end was ... lets say they hit the nail on everything thematically.

Some people find ghosts scary, others find monsters scary (that's me!), so having watched the film, I've been reading comments that either say it's great or it's a snooze fest. Bottom line, watch it and see/ experience it for yourselves to make that opinion. I'm up for a rewatch before it leaves theaters.

Also hit up The Incredibles 2 this week. Funny in a lot of parts and while it's a predictable plot, it's not that bad of a ride. Upgrade from the first film, diving into familiar family dynamics or egos or the pride of Mr. Incredible and his relationship with Elastigirl. I'd say decent movie, for sure. The short film before the movie - BAO - got mixed reactions where emotional scenes got laughs from people in the audience. It wasn't perfect but I liked it.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Reply #1320 on: June 17, 2018, 09:30:49 PM »
I hope these movies start a new trend in horror by going back to the slow-burn, more mature themed movies like Rosemary's Baby or The Exorcist, skipping what the 80's did to the genre (even though kid me loved Freddy).

I think were largely already there the past few years with an uptick in more "prestige" high concept suspense/horror movies with more emphasis on dread/terror that baser scares. I mean, Get Out won an Oscar. It's now the trend, fortunately.

On the other hand, how about that Halloween requel!? Jaime Lee Solo will help the new generation take on Darth Myers! I'm just bitter they excised Halloween II, which was a worthy and influential sequel in its own right. It's certainly better than whatever they're going to be doing with the material now.

Some people find ghosts scary, others find monsters scary (that's me!), so having watched the film, I've been reading comments that either say it's great or it's a snooze fest.

I always question those loudly proclaiming how bored and unscared they were, suspecting they were actually the most uncomfortable with the proceedings. Anyway, agree with you on ghosts vs. monsters, monsters FTW because they're where you find them, and have a better balance of supernatural and natural elements.