Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I talked to Oburi via PM about Five Armies and the The Hobbit trilogy in general:
On the idea of the fan edit:
As I told Oburi, for how indulgent Jackson is, it's sort of incredible how he cut all the humanity out of the last two movies save for that literally tacked on love story. I mean, yeah, why have that crazy dinner scene with dancing and singing and then not even include Thorin's funeral? Maybe the criticism the first movie received for being so long and ponderous caused him to exacerbate the problem trying to streamline them with an emphasis on action.
Oburi said:I agreed that the first one was pretty decent, and I defended it because as you said, it actually felt like a real movie. When I saw Desolation in theaters though ... wow. I could barely stand to sit through the whole thing, cringing every 5 minutes. Not even because of the damage being done to the source material, but just on a basic film making level, I still can't believe that was viewed as acceptable. The pacing was just horrendous. The over-use of cgi, while not quite Star Wars prequel bad, was still out of control. I had so many issues with it on a technical level that I rejected it and couldn't even begin to waste my time complaining about the infinite amount of story related issues (forced elf/dwarf romance, yuck). You mention the original Lord of the Rings effects seeming dated. I honestly think that river barrel chase is worse than anything in the originals. Focus on the cgi water during that scene, particularly when Bombur (the fat one) has his big moment. It's literally so bad i can't believe that it got the greenlight for release. Was that scene even finished in the effects department?
And I haven't even mentioned 5 Armies yet! I will say that the extended cut of Desolation fixed a lot of the issues, mostly the pacing problems. It seems like that is the version that should have been released, and the extended cut wouldn't be needed. So as for 5 Armies, most of the issues I had with Desolation carried right over into the next movie. It just doesn't feel like a finely crafted movie that is edited properly and has a natural pace. It's very jarring. So I already went in expecting that the theatrical version would be a jumbled up disaster of movie, and I was right. It's basically unwatchable. It's hardly even a movie. Like you mentioned, Thorin is driven mad with his obsession and greed for the whole movie... and then he's not! lol. It's such a mess but because I believe in second (and third) chances I'm going to retain some hope that the extended version for 5 Armies will turn out to be at the very least an actual movie with a natural pace and characterization and resolution to the many plot points brought up in the previous films that was seemingly forgotten about. I don't feel too bad about watching the extended cut since I only viewed the theatrical version once and a lot of the movie is already like one giant blur in my mind (kinda like the whole cgi battle). So, here's hoping!
But even if the extended cut fixes a lot of the issues, it will just simply put the movie into the "watchable" category. Some things can't be fixed. The theatrical versions are unwatchable, terrible things that barley resemble movies as we know them. The extended cuts can fix that. You can actually watch them! and feel like it's a normal paced movie! But yea, it seems like they got worse and worse and I think 5 Armies will still end up being really disappointing.
On the idea of the fan edit:
Oburi said:I haven't seen the fan edits yet, and i would be behind it but like i said without the final extended cut i feel there's still some scenes we know are going to be included that should be in even a condensed version. For example, Thorins funeral.
I know people wince at the idea of them being longer but a fan edit that cuts out all the bullshit can still include scenes from the extended cut that are way more appropriate for a Hobbit movie. A great example in Desolations extended version is Beorns scenes, including a whole new introduction which is far more accurate to what's in the book. It expands his character slightly and makes him seem much less contrived seemingly out of nowhere and just as quickly forgotten about. I expect 5 armies extended cut to also include more Beorn and give him his deserving spot that's again closer to the book.
So yea that's my feeling about it.
As I told Oburi, for how indulgent Jackson is, it's sort of incredible how he cut all the humanity out of the last two movies save for that literally tacked on love story. I mean, yeah, why have that crazy dinner scene with dancing and singing and then not even include Thorin's funeral? Maybe the criticism the first movie received for being so long and ponderous caused him to exacerbate the problem trying to streamline them with an emphasis on action.