please explain the second eclipse!

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Here's a hint, the answer to your question is implicit. I.E. they don't spell it out for you in the manga.
 

Aquedesin

See you soon my dear...
Well, that often like that, but sometimes implicit answers make more fucking questions pop-up until you don't even now what could be the reasonable answer...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Aquedesin said:
Well, that often like that, but sometimes implicit answers make more fucking questions pop-up until you don't even now what could be the reasonable answer...
The answer is implicit. Use your head.
 

Aquedesin

See you soon my dear...
Walter said:
The answer is implicit. Use your head.

Somebody else already told me that... But maybe I already used my head and now I would like to know what you came up with yours... Like sharing thought... But oh well, maybe I'm definitely too dumb...
 

Majin_Tenshi

The can opener went bye-bye...
Aquedesin said:
What really seem strange is what use it was to griffith to become a part of the gh if he was going to be reborn a few years later?
his body was ruined. His life was effecively over, so he got a new one.
its not so much "in order to become stronger?" but in order to become not crippled.

Aquedesin said:
And how can he know that by becoming a gh member he might be able to be reborn again as human later?
He had no other options. It was the only possible path that might lead to his dream of being king.

Aquedesin said:
And what bother me most is the fact that femto was a kind of spirit who control fate, so why would he want to be human again?
There is no crown with that.

Aquedesin said:
In brief, why the second eclipse took place?
CAUSALITY
The god of this world (IDEA) tweaked melinia opon melinia in order to create these events.
Griffith wanted to be king because it was part of Idea's plan.
The behelit apostle wanted to give birth to a new world because it was part of Idea's plan.
ect.
 

Aquedesin

See you soon my dear...
Well, thank you very much, I wasn't wainting an answer any more but it's still good to read what other people thought about that... In fact much of your answer are pretty straightforward and that is a good point since I was beginning thinking of theory better suited for the bottom of speculation nation... What really missed in all my thinking is the fact the Idea IS the real puppet master... Better try and find that fucking lost chapter and read a trans... Thanks again.
 

Aquedesin

See you soon my dear...
Thank you, but I found it by myself (the links were on the board somewhere...)
The traduction by the Hague is way much understandable that what I found before... It explain much things that were too blured in my thinking... But oh, "THIS IS ONLY PAGE 1?!?! WHERES THE REST?!!?" ;D
 

Kart

Resident /b/tard
Gutts isn't party of casuality, he's not part of fate in anyway, he should have been dead twice so far and he's survived, only two things can kill him now, Femto (he can make his brand bleed him to death) and lack of ability to win (fighting an opponent and dying) he can't be controlled by the idea anymore, or atleast thats the general thought about him, since he survived the eclipse he controls his own destiny.
 

Miyu

I'm smiling on the inside.
Did you even read what other people have posted? How can you say for certain that Guts is completely free of causality? Where is your basis for this argument?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Kart said:
Gutts isn't party of casuality, he's not part of fate in anyway, he should have been dead twice so far and he's survived, only two things can kill him now, Femto (he can make his brand bleed him to death) and lack of ability to win (fighting an opponent and dying) he can't be controlled by the idea anymore, or atleast thats the general thought about him, since he survived the eclipse he controls his own destiny.
Most point-by-point ridiculous post in months.
 

Kart

Resident /b/tard
hmmm, Well then I apologize for that, but from what i've seen and read it looked that way, but rereading the first eclipse i think i may be wrong, because zodd said something about his fate, so did Skull knight, but for the most part i still believe he has no destiny so he's free to alk his own path.
 

bandoogiemanz

"Causality. We are all slaves to it."
So, am I to understand that Griffith chose to become Femto, becoming a member of the God Hand, and then later on being reborn into the real world again to completely finish his march to becoming king? If that is the case(and it does make sense), does that mean that Femto raped Casca knowing that she was pregnant and that he would be providing himself with a body to later on down the road be reborn? If this ceremony happens every thousand years, why hasn't any of the other God Hand members tried getting a real world body? Also, somebody mentioned earlier that Griffith might be just as vulnerable as any other human being, but when he first appeared again in Midland, where the Locus Knight joined him, the army shot arrows at him, and they went right through him. Why does Griffith want Flora's head? Finally, in reality, how much of a chance do Guts and Skull Knight have against Griffith's new Band of the Hawk? They can't defeat all the apostles, if it is Idea's plan, what can they do about it?
 

kimchan

"Should I be overcome by the vapors?
bandoogiemanz said:
So, am I to understand that Griffith chose to become Femto, becoming a member of the God Hand, and then later on being reborn into the real world again to completely finish his march to becoming king? If that is the case(and it does make sense), does that mean that Femto raped Casca knowing that she was pregnant and that he would be providing himself with a body to later on down the road be reborn?

Griffith became Femto because he had no other choice in that situation. It was either that or give up his dream because his body was useless for battle at that point. I'm not sure he would have bothered becoming a part of God Hand if things had not been worked out that way. And I have my doubts about the demon child. There really wasn't any way for Griffith to know Casca was pregnant and even if he did, I doubt he'd think it through that much. I think the demon child was just another part of causality.

If this ceremony happens every thousand years, why hasn't any of the other God Hand members tried getting a real world body?

I don't think it's been addressed in the manga and I don't know. Possibly just not relevant?

Also, somebody mentioned earlier that Griffith might be just as vulnerable as any other human being, but when he first appeared again in Midland, where the Locus Knight joined him, the army shot arrows at him, and they went right through him.

The scene in Volume 22 I presume? Looking at it again, it looks like either he dodged or they just missed. Either way, the arrows aren't anywhere near him, so I don't think they went through him.

Why does Griffith want Flora's head?

Hasn't been explained or really alluded to (the "why" of it.) Not sure how relevant it is now, since Flora's dead anyway.

Finally, in reality, how much of a chance do Guts and Skull Knight have against Griffith's new Band of the Hawk? They can't defeat all the apostles, if it is Idea's plan, what can they do about it?

Realistically stacking the odds, unless some big twist is on the horizon (probably is, but who knows) Guts little band doesn't stand much of a chance against a huge apostle army. But don't forget, causality is not set in stone, there are ways around it, so just because it's "Idea's plan" doesn't make it insurmountable (although I can't think of what in hell they could actually do about it offhand. ^^;)
 
kimchan said:
since Flora's dead anyway.


Lets not assume too early, though i doubt she would survive this encounter, but we must leave a place for surprise... 8)

She might still be busy toying with Grunbeld ;)
 
1) The behelit apostle sacrificed himself, his human nature. He doesn't have a human appearence and be able to transform like the other apostles so far. He became...an egg!

2) People were driven at Albion because of the dream of the Hawk back then.

3) Caska and Guts were the branded that survived and all the other died. This is because it is a mirror eclipse.

Edit addition (3 times):
But the one that serves GH's plan using causality is the egg apostle rather than the branded Guts and Caska. The egg apostle manipolated things to make them stay there for the whole eclipse (remember the rock he threw and the monsters he created). Indeed if Guts got his Caska before the eclipse he would have gone away from there most propably to seek heaven back in the cave. Nevertheless Guts has made the mistake in the past to seek revenge: yes this has also made him a pawn in idea's plan by the means of causality but he was not conscious of it as the egg apostle was.

4) Branded Guts and Caska saved a couple of persons too like Skullknight saved a couple of branded in the other eclipse(again mirror eclipse).

5) Normally the child can be either Guts' or Phemto's. Let's see what happens in each case*.

The child is Guts':
The child is another branded person like Guts and Caska are(remember Caska was pregnant in the first eclipse) but because he was still an embryo growing in the belly of Caska it had gained much more affinity with the state of the "branded" than Guts and Caska have.
The child can travel in the boundary among the two worlds like he always lived in a state like this, even from the belly of his mother. And lol, this is true.
The child being a survivor like Guts, has gained some ability or power with the spirits that helped him survive so long or it can misplace persons with him in the boundaries(the way Guts and the others found Flora's house). This way or another protected Caska in Albion. I am not sure what expressions is better though from the above two for what was in play back then.

The child is Phemto's:
This means that Guts' son died while Caska was raped and then Caska reconceived Phemto's semen. Well this makes a person made by a branded human and a GH demon. Obviously it's gonna be something special with some special powers at play. Either way he loves Caska, his mother but has also his mission as being part of Phemto. The child calls Guts in help of Caska back there at the Albion.

6) Anyway if Mozgus had killed the child when he blew his fire on Caska the whole thing would have stopped. This didn't happen but on the contrary put the child ko so that the egg apostle could use it. If Mozgus wanted to exorcist evil he would have killed Caska right away. On the contrary he wanted to show on people in a fashion of marketing for the religion he is boss. So Mozgus is no good.



7) Skully wanted to ruin the eclipse. He tried to kill the egg apostle but he didn't.



*If Skully was sincere when he was spoking to Guts about his son then the first case must be in play. Anyway it seems that this is the right one. I just included the second because you never know ;D
 

Sean

I'm a llama!
At least,Griffth is absolutly not a savier~~
That big egg want a new world,but a new world can be better,meanwhile can be worse,so,the one who can change the world to a "new" world come,he is Griffth~~
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Sean said:
At least,Griffth is absolutly not a savier~~
That big egg want a new world,but a new world can be better,meanwhile can be worse,so,the one who can change the world to a "new" world come,he is Griffth~~
Thanks for reviving this winning thread, Sean. Stunning post too.
 

ShinHell9

I started on here when I was like 14...
Sean said:
At least,Griffth is absolutly not a savier~~
That big egg want a new world,but a new world can be better,meanwhile can be worse,so,the one who can change the world to a "new" world come,he is Griffth~~
I think we established that already, quite a few times, about 273 times over the span of 2 years.
 
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