Arizona Shooting and the news

If you've been watching the news in the U.S. for the past couple of days, I am sure you have heard about the tragedy in Arizona and the endless discussion on 'discourse' after it.

I am no fan of Sarah Palin or the tea party, but there has not been a single shred of evidence that Loughner was under their influence. The news has just been running endless clips of Sarah Palin's 'don't retreat reload' slogan and a U.S. map showing districts with target signs on them. They argue that a metaphorical slogan and photo, which we have no evidence that he's even seen, somehow is to blame for a murder rampage. I myself do not know exactly what caused him to murder all those people but it seems that all these media pundits want to do now is attach their own narrative to the situation.

Loughner was clearly an unusual case and I would hope the media would at least take the time to investigate the actual causes before hypocritically calling for civil discourse while continually airing baseless accusations.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
seppuku said:
I am no fan of Sarah Palin or the tea party, but there has not been a single shred of evidence that Loughner was under their influence. The news has just been running endless clips of Sarah Palin's 'don't retreat reload' slogan and a U.S. map showing districts with target signs on them. They argue that a metaphorical slogan and photo, which we have no evidence that he's even seen, somehow is to blame for a murder rampage. I myself do not know exactly what caused him to murder all those people but it seems that all these media pundits want to do now is attach their own narrative to the situation.

Guy's crazy and that's why he did it, no doubt about that. However, I read something from Sheriff Dupnik in a CNN article that rang true:

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government, the anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous."

People of influence should be responsible for what they say and for how it affects others.
 

Lithrael

Remember, always hold your apple tight
Yep, the 'real cause' is undoubtedly that the guy is potatopancakes. But it's certainly a problem that the political atmosphere is chock full of guns-fuck-yeah-take-it-back revolutionary nostalgia fervor, which for the well-balanced mind is all in good patriotic fun. But not everybody is well balanced, or even vaguely balanced. How much debate/research do you need to show that an atmosphere of cheery violence encourages nutbars to act out? They see a political rally where people are toting rifles around and waving flags all viva la revolucion and they think they're going to be heroes.

The crazy left has the same problem but the insanity on that side tends to be focused on the 'green' so they get nutbars who burn down ski lodges and dog pounds and harass fishing boats, etc.

Nobody sane is calling for censorship, it'd just be a good idea for everyone to calm the fuck down, look around and remember that the community is NOT made up solely of people just as reasonable as you & me. Leave the GO TEAM KILL EM enthusiasm in the football arena where it's supposed to be.
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
Aazealh said:
Guy's crazy and that's why he did it, no doubt about that. However, I read something from Sheriff Dupnik in a CNN article that rang true:

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government, the anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous."

People of influence should be responsible for what they say and for how it affects others.

Do you have the link for that quote?

Edit: I really don't know a lot about this case, so asked a family member about it over the weekend. Their response was that, "it's a leftest nutcase". I can only imagine that every opinionist, in the news, is blaming anyone that is not in their political ideology.
 

Lithrael

Remember, always hold your apple tight
IIRC the actual dude in question is Independent Nutjob Maybe Crazy Libertarian. Among other things he was obsessed with grammar and had a grudge against her because she wouldn't answer the question "what is government if words have no meaning." I mean quality crazy.

Ever since 2001 I've been kinda longing for the oldschool right, back when I disagreed with them but they seemed like sane people who knew what they were talking about. Now it's all about irrational emotional rhetoric, which is gonna incite the crazypants to crazypantsiosity even if they're not voting republican.
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
Lithrael said:
IIRC the actual dude in question is Independent Nutjob Maybe Crazy Libertarian. Among other things he was obsessed with grammar and had a grudge against her because she wouldn't answer the question "what is government if words have no meaning." I mean quality crazy.

Ever since 2001 I've been kinda longing for the oldschool right, back when I disagreed with them but they seemed like sane people who knew what they were talking about. Now it's all about irrational emotional rhetoric, which is gonna incite the crazypants to crazypantsiosity even if they're not voting republican.
Interesting enough I read an article that talks a little about people that use crazy emotional rhetoric. http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2011/0111/Arizona-s-Sheriff-Dupnik-and-the-vitriol-debate-Do-words-matter-that-much

Also I feel it's somewhat related were the incendiary letters in MD/DC. http://www.wbaltv.com/news/26400709/detail.html
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Lithrael said:
But it's certainly a problem that the political atmosphere is chock full of guns-fuck-yeah-take-it-back revolutionary nostalgia fervor, which for the well-balanced mind is all in good patriotic fun.

You know, obviously I wouldn't know as much about it as you guys, not having first hand experience, but I'm not so sure it's ever "all good patriotic fun" when things go past a certain level (rhetorically).

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
Do you have the link for that quote?

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/10/arizona.shooting/index.html
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Aazealh said:
You know, obviously I wouldn't know as much about it as you guys, not having first hand experience, but I'm not so sure it's ever "all good patriotic fun" when things go past a certain level (rhetorically).

Yeah, that's where my dark take on these things come in, I almost see events like this as an inevitable check against such rhetoric. The guy was crazy, but that doesn't just make it a freak occurrence, he didn't exist in a vacuum, his madness was shaped, focused, and camouflaged by ours.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
I agree. He was obviously crazy, but with slogans like "If not ballots then bullets" or "don't retreat. RELOAD" you are laying out the dots for those batshit crazy people to connect. This news is sickening, and to think he bought that weapon with an extended clip so early before the shootings without any problem. I can't help but think this type of politically charged violence is just the tip of the iceberg of what could possibly lay in our future.
 
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