Author Topic: Demon Child  (Read 3821 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

C_W

  • Guest
Demon Child
« on: January 20, 2011, 02:01:40 PM »
I figured this was the best place to post this; but this is bothering me about the Demon Child and Griffith.

Okay, I've seen a lot of posts around here that Griffith specifically intended to use that child's body as a resurrection, hence the rape at the Eclipse. I wanted to believe that too; but I find a few problems with that.

Firstly, Griffith would have no way of knowing that Casca was pregnant at the time, and also from what I saw, he was planning to kill both her and Guts had the Skull Knight not rescued them, so that leaves just him impregnating her out.

Secondly, from what I gathered, it was Egg of the Perfect World which was going to hatch Griffith; that's what he sacrificed himself to do. But, here's the part I recall. He found the child, half dead after protecting Casca and from what I gathered, took pity on it "Let's go together". It just seemed like a huge coincidence to me and that the child was never supposed to be in the reincarnation ceremony.

And, from the fact that Griffith saved Casca later on due to its influence, it's something he clearly wasn't expecting.

So... was it intended to be like that, or was it just a coincidence that it's now a part of Griffith? Everything I've read point to the latter.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 02:19:50 PM by C_W »

Offline Lithrael

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 863
  • Karma: 87
  • Gender: Female
  • Remember, always hold your apple tight
Demon Child
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2011, 02:24:05 PM »
I think it's a big part of the theme that within Idea's plans there are no coincidences.  Was it a coincidence that Griff happened to find the Egg of the King again in that puddle when he was ready to make the sacrifice?

IIRC the only unexpected event in all this was Guts surviving the Eclipse...

ETA:  Remember that at that point he was not Griffith.  He was Femto, and it's likely that a lot of inside knowledge came with that whole godhood thing.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 02:39:52 PM by Lithrael »

C_W

  • Guest
Demon Child
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2011, 03:12:40 PM »
Haha, yes.

I forgot that there are no coincidences. Funny, I very rarely ever forget that, but I apparently did this time.

But still, if Guts (and Casca too I assume) surviving the Eclipse was the only unexpected event; that's still pretty much the entire child's birth, but even Slan says that it might have very well have been ordained for them to survive, and for the child to be used.

Femto might not have known that the child was to be used, but the Idea must have.

Ah, making more sense now.  :carcus:

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15862
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Demon Child
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2011, 03:42:54 PM »
So... was it intended to be like that, or was it just a coincidence that it's now a part of Griffith? Everything I've read point to the latter.
Yeah, never forget to consider the binding force for all major events in the world, especially when Griffith is involved. He's at the center of Causality's web :idea:

 :void: : Berserk 101 -- "Everything is bound by the flow of Causality."

ETA:  Remember that at that point he was not Griffith.  He was Femto, and it's likely that a lot of inside knowledge came with that whole godhood thing.
For certain. But being a member of the God Hand isn't "godhood."
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

  • Old Fart in Training
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4192
  • Karma: 43
  • Gender: Male
Demon Child
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2011, 04:49:55 PM »
Yeah, never forget to consider the binding force for all major events in the world, especially when Griffith is involved. He's at the center of Causality's web :idea:

 :void: : Berserk 101 -- "Everything is bound by the flow of Causality."

Exactly. If we look at what the Idea said to Griffith in episode 83 ("Do as you will.") then it makes perfect sense. Femto raped Casca in front of Guts because he wanted to. It just happened to fit into the Idea's plans. Also, just because the God Hand couldn't predict that the Skull Knight would show up and rescue Guts and Casca, it doesn't mean the Idea of Evil hadn't set the whole thing up long ago.

Offline Jaze1618

Demon Child
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2011, 08:07:11 PM »
Exactly. If we look at what the Idea said to Griffith in episode 83 ("Do as you will.") then it makes perfect sense. Femto raped Casca in front of Guts because he wanted to. It just happened to fit into the Idea's plans. Also, just because the God Hand couldn't predict that the Skull Knight would show up and rescue Guts and Casca, it doesn't mean the Idea of Evil hadn't set the whole thing up long ago.

Wow Rhombaad, you just keyed me into something I had never thought of before. Anyone remember back in volume 5 after the 3 year time jump while guts is with the hawks? Casca calling Guts a Mad Dog (in the Darkhorse translation). Guts apologizes to Griffith for being so reckless, and Griffith tells Guts that it's OK because even that part of him is a part of Griffith's plans? (Do as you will anybody?)

While Guts was with the Hawks, there were no coincidences within Griffith's plans.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15862
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Demon Child
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2011, 08:28:18 PM »
Wow Rhombaad, you just keyed me into something I had never thought of before. Anyone remember back in volume 5 after the 3 year time jump while guts is with the hawks? Casca calling Guts a Mad Dog (in the Darkhorse translation). Guts apologizes to Griffith for being so reckless, and Griffith tells Guts that it's OK because even that part of him is a part of Griffith's plans? (Do as you will anybody?)

While Guts was with the Hawks, there were no coincidences within Griffith's plans.

That's overstating the situation a bit. Griffith's plans to manage his personal army aren't the same as the plans of the god of the world. They coincide, but Griffith was just speaking of his own plans. He wasn't aware of the bigger picture.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Jaze1618

Demon Child
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2011, 08:32:58 PM »
That's overstating the situation a bit. Griffith's plans to manage his personal army aren't the same as the plans of the god of the world. They coincide, but Griffith was just speaking of his own plans. He wasn't aware of the bigger picture.

Yes, I agree with you.

Offline Truder

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
  • Karma: 9
  • Gender: Male
  • "I frown at Griffith's nipples" -Aazealh
Demon Child
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 01:11:45 AM »
So how close is the God Hand with the Idea of evil? apparently the God Hand can't predict everything, like SK breaking into their ceremony, but the Idea of Evil has Guts' future in its grasp from the start? seems kinda lame if that were true. You would think that Guts being Branded would give him the ability to create his own future at his will., not controlled in some shape or form all the way to the end of his adventure.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15862
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Demon Child
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 02:11:04 AM »
So how close is the God Hand with the Idea of evil? apparently the God Hand can't predict everything, like SK breaking into their ceremony, but the Idea of Evil has Guts' future in its grasp from the start? seems kinda lame if that were true. You would think that Guts being Branded would give him the ability to create his own future at his will., not controlled in some shape or form all the way to the end of his adventure.
This is certainly not the place for this discussion, but no, Guts is not "outside fate" as some have termed this. This is a common misconception that stems from a bad translation: Guts is branded, so he is beyond the reach of Causality and the Idea of Evil. You can thank The_Hawks for causing the confusion.  Here's an older post by Aaz explaining why this is a fallacy:

Causality can adapt itself, it's not rigid, and if Guts and Casca hadn't escaped from the Occultation, the story as we know it wouldn't have been possible. It's really too subtle for us to assume anything about it with certainty, but what is sure is that being a sacrifice is just that, it dooms the branded person to go to hell.

As a quick counter example, in Episode 203 Skull Knight tells Flora that Guts "may also be one of the variables guided by the laws of causality". The fish analogy Slan talks about during the Eclipse explains this well enough: he can go against the current of causality, but he can't change the direction of the flow.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Alcaudon

  • Guest
Demon Child
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2011, 02:43:00 PM »
I was wondering a while if Guts and Casca's son is somehow beyond IOE's control, there's maybe another force influencing the Berserk world. The Child might be like a walking "mandorla"; he's not in this world or the other, he's between them, nor a man or a demon, but something in between.

Slan said long ago They (The Hand) cannot see all the futures, but, If there was another potency not revealed by Miura yet.

Offline Lithrael

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 863
  • Karma: 87
  • Gender: Female
  • Remember, always hold your apple tight
Demon Child
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2011, 02:57:45 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised.  He does give me the feeling of being a wildcard.  But it's just a feeling of course.   :farnese: