Author Topic: Has Guts personally gotten more menacing over time?  (Read 3231 times)

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Overlord Morgus

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Has Guts personally gotten more menacing over time?
« on: March 23, 2011, 06:09:59 PM »
By pretty much every metric, I believe he has. He's grown physically larger, he releases the beast more often, and he now has a streak of white to complement his facial scarring. At the same time, his entourage has only grown more "cute." He travels with 4 wide-eyed aristocrats(aside from Serpico, who's basically the servant), a woman who behaves like a child, 2 elves, and a continuously growing collection of children. It's like Team Guts is stretching towards 2 extremes, and part of me thinks that this will create some kind of problem. Like maybe he'll grow too dependent on their calming effect, giving him an easy weakness for his enemies to exploit.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 06:24:17 PM by Overlord Morgus »

Offline Aphasia

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Re: Has Guts personally gotten more menacing over time?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 07:06:56 PM »
I wouldn't really describe Guts personality as menacing, at least not anymore.  He's become more confident and stoic over time.  Is that what you're asking?  You might want to correct that typo.

Companions are always a risk, but in Guts case it's one he's willing to take.  His endeavor and his enemies have grown to the point where he simply can't do everything by himself.

Offline Staralfur

Re: Has Guts personally gotten more menacing over time?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 07:22:19 PM »
Quote
By pretty much every metric, I believe he has

My feeling is quite the opposite. Actually I think that ever since the beast began to come out, Guts' personality has been more "schizoid" in the sense that there is a very clear separation between his "sane" part and the Beast. So, yeah, when the Beast comes out, he is more menacing than ever, but the rest of the time he has grown much more sociable and calm than he was during, let's say, the Lost Children chapter. Back then he was really scary at times.
Now, it's not that I don't worry, but it feels like the presence of all the members of his group gives off such a feeling of security and warmth, that it lulls his own sense of danger (at least that's the feeling I get). What I mean is that, in my opinion, the real danger now is that Guts relies so much on Schierke's magic to bring him back every time he releases the Beast, he's getting too confident that she's always gonna be there to help when things get ugly. And it seems that the more he uses the armour, the stronger the bond with the Beast / armour is getting. so much so that last time Schierke couldn't intervene... Of course maybe I'm reading too much in this. Besides, that stronger bond was also an effect of the full moon, so it is difficult at this point to tell at what point it is true

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Has Guts personally gotten more menacing over time?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 08:14:16 PM »
My feeling is quite the opposite. Actually I think that ever since the beast began to come out, Guts' personality has been more "schizoid" in the sense that there is a very clear separation between his "sane" part and the Beast. So, yeah, when the Beast comes out, he is more menacing than ever, but the rest of the time he has grown much more sociable and calm than he was during, let's say, the Lost Children chapter. Back then he was really scary at times.

I think that right there pretty much sums it up from my perspective as well. Guts was more menacing in his Black Swordsman days. Now, only when the beast takes over.

Vargas is a decent example of how Guts was more menacing. He didn't even try to save him, he threatened him, hurt him, used him and then pretty much went separate ways, no thanks or anything. Guts was disturbed by his execution, but shedding a single tear and being disturbed is obviously not the same as risking your neck to help. Now, Guts goes out of his way to make sure the people around him aren't in danger. Like when he checked up on Schierke and Isidro at the docks of Vritannis during the pirate incident. Or how he was willing to go after Farnese and Serpico when they suddenly left. I suppose one could say Vargas wasn't anywhere near as close to him as the others currently are but he was the first human to not only help him but also relate to him in his awareness of apostles.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Has Guts personally gotten more menacing over time?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 08:17:27 PM »
No, I'd say he's actually gotten less menacing over time, unless he's using the Berserk's armor (the goal of which is to make the wearer about as menacing as possible).

He's grown physically larger

Compared to when? He'd actually lost weight after first getting the armor, and he's only recently gotten better.

he releases the beast more often

I have a problem with your wording here (and the same goes for Staralfur). The concept of "releasing" the Beast of Darkness is inherently flawed, as shown by episode 316 among other things. What Guts does is that he uses the Berserk's armor (lets its Od take over his consciousness), and that in turn brings out his more savage side, which is represented by the Beast of Darkness. I could get into the technicalities but I think I've done it enough time already and a quick search should yield you past discussions on the topic. Suffices to say that Guts only ever uses the armor when he has absolutely no other choices and that he desperately tries to remain in control everytime. The fact it's been happening regularly is a direct consequence of the changes the world is undergoing (i.e. they're facing harder challenges). The time when the Snake Baron was a mighty foe seems far away indeed.

But what's interesting to note is that Guts is actually having some success (albeit very limited at this point) in his attempts to restrain himself while the armor is in control. Like I hinted at, he has managed to chain the Beast thanks to his friends, and that kept him momentarily from rampaging, giving the Moonlight Boy enough time to intervene. So I'd say that there's hope in that regard, though it's clearly a gamble every single time.

and he now has a streak of white to complement his facial scarring.

He's had that white hair for a while now, and I'm not sure that makes him particularly more menacing.

At the same time, his entourage has only grown more "cute." He travels with 4 wide-eyed aristocrats(aside from Serpico, who's basically the servant)

I wouldn't call Roderick a wide-eyed aristocrat (and considering that he's the ship's captain, it's not like they could do without him), and Farnese does as many if not more menial tasks for the group than Serpico. Not to mention that she's a witch in training, and that she recently was able to cast a spell to protect the group. Then there's Azan, who hardly fits your description. That leaves Magnifico, and I wouldn't say he's truly a part of the group right now.

a woman who behaves like a child

Casca, the love of his life, the cornerstone of his character development, whose importance in the story will only grow in the future.

2 elves and a continuously growing collection of children.

Puck has been in since the very beginning, and Schierke & Isidro have been around for quite a while as well. Isidro was introduced in volume 18. They both play an important role, particularly Schierke who's intrinsically linked to Guts' use of the Berserk's armor and to the increasingly difficult challenges the group has been facing and overcoming. These characters aren't there to decorate and look cute in the background. As for Isma, she's just a minor character at this point who might not stick around for too long. I don't even count the Moonlight Boy, since it's only his second appearance and he's likely going to disappear again soon. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that Guts' friends aren't in opposition with his darker side so much as they're a potential cure for it down the road.

It's like Team Guts is stretching towards 2 extremes, and part of me thinks that this will create some kind of problem. Like maybe he'll grow too dependent on their calming effect, giving him an easy weakness for his enemies to exploit.

Really, it's all already been addressed in the manga. Guts has strong feelings for his friends, feelings he thought he'd never have again when the Band of the Falcon was butchered during the Occultation ceremony. He does definitely heavily rely on them. But are these feelings a weakness? Hell no. We've been told and shown that without them he'd have already gone mad and would likely be dead. What he feels for his friends is what allows him to keep the Beast of Darkness in check when using the Berserk's armor, and what he feels for Casca is what led him away from his revenge (and certain death at the time). His salvation lies in the bonds he's created with these people.

Now, could that be used against him at some point, like by an apostle threatening to kill one of his comrades? Sure. But the alternative isn't even worth thinking about at this point. There's just no way he can do it alone. I mean if it weren't for his friends, he'd have been killed by the armor every single time he used it.

What I mean is that, in my opinion, the real danger now is that Guts relies so much on Schierke's magic to bring him back every time he releases the Beast, he's getting too confident that she's always gonna be there to help when things get ugly.

Like I said earlier though, it's not like Guts uses the armor carelessly. He only ever does it when there's no other choice.

And it seems that the more he uses the armour, the stronger the bond with the Beast / armour is getting. so much so that last time Schierke couldn't intervene... Of course maybe I'm reading too much in this. Besides, that stronger bond was also an effect of the full moon, so it is difficult at this point to tell at what point it is true

In Schierke's own words: "...The power of the armor has increased. The Od it emits is too strong...!!"

So I wouldn't conclude anything from it in regard to the bond between the armor and Guts/The Beast at this point.