Author Topic: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]  (Read 55613 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #375 on: August 21, 2017, 04:33:42 PM »
Haha yeah! The part that I got spoiled on was the very last scene of the episode, which turned out to be an accurate spoiler.

Yep, I'm glad that wasn't spoiled for me even though it had to be on everyone's mind the moment the dragon went down. Cleverly, it going into the ice actually made it a question, so I was happy to see it paid off at the end.

BTW, my fake spoiler was "Jon Snow dies," which actually would have made sense and obviously wouldn't necessarily be a permanent condition.


A few co-workers loved the episode, calling it the best of the season so far. When episode 4 came out, they had a similar reaction. I'm noticing a trend where anything action related gets a favorable nod among my co-workers. I actually like the parts where people are scheming or in weird predicaments which are too many to list.
At this point it's pretty just Worth watching the action scènes considering that script/storywise, nothing makes that much sense anymore.

Well, I actually think the 4th episode was probably better and the best of the season, though less eventful of course (this one was almost TOO eventful as you point out), but I also think these two happened to have the most riveting plotting and dialogue to compliment the action and vice versa (the magic travel, overall ridiculousness, and Winderfell nonsense in this one holding it back from top honors). Episode 4 actually felt like a proper culmination in keeping with the progress of previous seasons. This last one was almost like GoT: The Movie!

Next week we get the meeting about that war to come... And I'm pretty sure of what to expect towards the end of the season.

Yes, you've seen the most epic shit ever we've teased out morsels of for 6 years before jamming it all down your throat in one episode! Now, stay tuned for the epic finale to follow... A Conversation of Thrones! Maybe they'll all learn they actually kinda like each other? :carcus:

So, Cercei is going to try and kill everybody, will probably partially succeed, creating total chaos, and then at the end the Night King will use his new Frost Dragon to bypass the wall. THE END.


Speaking of a conversation of Thrones; I really wish we could get rid of those "Inside the Episode" segments for Thrones and transfer them to Twin Peaks, which could actually use them, or so that David Lynch could just regurgitate literally what's happening in the scenes while explaining nothing, in the tone of Gordon Cole. :ganishka:

Offline IncantatioN

  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3391
  • Karma: 56
  • Gender: Male
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #376 on: August 22, 2017, 03:09:10 PM »
Article of the director for last week's episode discussing the timeline - http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-6-beyond-the-wall-timeline-director-1202534403/amp/

Quote
"We were aware that timing was getting a little hazy,” Taylor told Variety. “We’ve got Gendry running back, ravens flying a certain distance, dragons having to fly back a certain distance…In terms of the emotional experience, [Jon and company] sort of spent one dark night on the island in terms of storytelling moments. We tried to hedge it a little bit with the eternal twilight up there north of The Wall. I think there was some effort to fudge the timeline a little bit by not declaring exactly how long we were there. I think that worked for some people, for other people it didn’t. They seemed to be very concerned about how fast a raven can fly but there’s a thing called plausible impossibilities, which is what you try to achieve, rather than impossible plausibilities. So I think we were straining plausibility a little bit, but I hope the story’s momentum carries over some of that stuff.
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #377 on: August 22, 2017, 05:28:04 PM »
I was just reading that and I at least the guy is being honest with how they're purposefully smudging the timeline (well, it might be easy for him to say because it's not actually his fault, he's just there to film it =). Was it a day, or was it actually a few? It kind of doesn't make sense either way that help could come so fast or that they could wait so long, so I give the guy credit for making it come off about as well as could be done in a single episode given he also had to work with the constraints of not being able to show them waiting forever because they needed to get to the climax. The only thing I can think of to balance it better would be to have moved some of the conversation from the journey beyond the wall to while they're stuck waiting, but then you're perhaps spoiling the tone of those conversations. The easiest and most obvious answer would have been to move the Winterfell BS to the middle to add some theoretical time and distance to the events beyond the wall, plus it was just such comedown after the events further north.

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Karma: 59
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #378 on: August 22, 2017, 05:55:25 PM »

So, Cercei is going to try and kill everybody, will probably partially succeed, creating total chaos, and then at the end the Night King will use his new Frost Dragon to bypass the wall. THE END.


Bypass? The guy will probably just break it down around East Watch now that he has a new pet to do it.  :guts: Cerci will be a pure idiot to try and kill them all considering that they're going to be surrounded by Daenarys's army (well at least I hope it's what she'll do.) I'm still having a hard time about that meeting. We'll know soon enough anyway.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #379 on: August 22, 2017, 06:26:25 PM »
Bypass? The guy will probably just break it down around East Watch now that he has a new pet to do it.  :guts:

Just like the showrunners with time and space, I was being purposefully vague. =)

Cerci will be a pure idiot to try and kill them all considering that they're going to be surrounded by Daenarys's army (well at least I hope it's what she'll do.) I'm still having a hard time about that meeting. We'll know soon enough anyway.

Yeah, just that they're having it outside is already a positive sign for the good guys, but Cercei will have a trap ready (and maybe a shit ton of those special dragon ballistas to ward them off). I mean, what's to stop her from having Dany taken hostage? Sure, the Dragons could burn everybody and she'd be the lone survivor, but do they want to risk her throat being slit in the process? Anyway, Just Jon (successor to Noble Ned =) probably wouldn't allow it, but then maybe she can lay the trap more conventionally: why not settle the issue (of the undead, not the throne) with her favorite method of determination, trial by combat? The Mountain, seemingly undead himself, vs. Jon Sn... oh wait, none other than keeper of the wight should prove it's veracity, both on the battlefield and practically (unlike the wight the Mountain should stop moving when killed... I think), The Hound! Clegaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaane Booooooooooooooooooowl!

Also, I wonder if Varys and Tyrion might have a secret double cross of their own planned considering they know far better than Dany and Jon who they're dealing with and that there's no way this will work with Cercei breathing. Then there's where Jaime's loyalties ultimate fall, with her sister & lover or with the realm. Should be good!

P.S. Do you think they'll cap off the logisical fuck all by having Brienne of fucking Tarth somehow show up, traveling by land, before next season? Oh, who am I kidding? She'll probably be there before the start of the meeting. :ganishka:

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Karma: 59
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #380 on: August 22, 2017, 07:57:29 PM »
Just like the showrunners with time and space, I was being purposefully vague. =)

Yeah, just that they're having it outside is already a positive sign for the good guys, but Cercei will have a trap ready (and maybe a shit ton of those special dragon ballistas to ward them off). I mean, what's to stop her from having Dany taken hostage? Sure, the Dragons could burn everybody and she'd be the lone survivor, but do they want to risk her throat being slit in the process? Anyway, Just Jon (successor to Noble Ned =) probably wouldn't allow it, but then maybe she can lay the trap more conventionally: why not settle the issue (of the undead, not the throne) with her favorite method of determination, trial by combat? The Mountain, seemingly undead himself, vs. Jon Sn... oh wait, none other than keeper of the wight should prove it's veracity, both on the battlefield and practically (unlike the wight the Mountain should stop moving when killed... I think), The Hound! Clegaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaane Booooooooooooooooooowl!

Also, I wonder if Varys and Tyrion might have a secret double cross of their own planned considering they know far better than Dany and Jon who they're dealing with and that there's no way this will work with Cercei breathing. Then there's where Jaime's loyalties ultimate fall, with her sister & lover or with the realm. Should be good!

P.S. Do you think they'll cap off the logisical fuck all by having Brienne of fucking Tarth somehow show up, traveling by land, before next season? Oh, who am I kidding? She'll probably be there before the start of the meeting. :ganishka:


Oh yeah I forgot about the Hound with his wight friend going their way. Humm sounds indeed like a beautifull fan-serviced long awaited fight against his now undead brother.

I like your idea about a secret double-cross frim Varys and Tyrion against Cercei. I think that'd be interesting. And of course she'll have something in mind considering that's all she has left to do (find a way to kill her ennemies aka all the rest of the cast...) A lion doesn't concern himself with what others think, the lion would shit his pants seeing a live dragon.

As for Brienne, she'll probably be too busy trying to escape from the love of Tormund bear lover! Though I must admit that at this point, I'd to see something between them.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #381 on: August 22, 2017, 08:46:24 PM »
Oh yeah I forgot about the Hound with his wight friend going their way. Humm sounds indeed like a beautifull fan-serviced long awaited fight against his now undead brother.

Yeah, one good thing about the show is even if all these fan theories never make it in the books, these guys would definitely crowd-source it for the show, "Dude, fuck GRRM, we'll make Euron [note: he's got to show up in the finale, right?] just a crazy bro and have the Night King be the big bad, and let's do the Clegane Bowl!" Maybe they'll be the one considered canon after all. :carcus:

I like your idea about a secret double-cross frim Varys and Tyrion against Cercei. I think that'd be interesting. And of course she'll have something in mind considering that's all she has left to do (find a way to kill her ennemies aka all the rest of the cast...)

Yeah, it's gonna be a mess, I'm experiencing this dissonance where I expect it to be somehow more subtle than I'm imagining or just totally crazy and ridiculous, and I'm imagining both at once.

As for Brienne, she'll probably be too busy trying to escape from the love of Tormund bear lover! Though I must admit that at this point, I'd to see something between them.[/spoiler]

Well, I think he stayed back at Eastwatch, so he's either cannon-fodder or a good lone survivor candidate when the undead army rolls through, "THEY'RE HEEEEERE!!!"

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Karma: 59
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #382 on: August 22, 2017, 09:00:54 PM »
Well, I think he stayed back at Eastwatch, so he's either cannon-fodder or a good lone survivor candidate when the undead army rolls through, "THEY'RE HEEEEERE!!!"

I'm not a 100% sure that he'll be cannon-fodder...yet. Could be the one to bring the news south about the undead army getting through the wall somehow ouink ouink. Brienne deserves some real love. And this one is pretty interested. As a secondary character surviving that long I'd happy for him. Though I would not be surprise to see him bite the frost (intented) before the end. And for once, Brienne gets some real attention and not some south pretentious knight.

Maybe he'll bite it trying to protect her...  :???:

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #383 on: August 23, 2017, 06:32:29 PM »
Yeah, if they didn't kill him last week it would be a little weird to turn around and off him now. Anyway... so, does anyone think Bran is the Night King?

http://time.com/4909961/game-of-thrones-bran-stark-night-king/


That's the big theory du jour that's been going around a while.

Offline Delta Phi

  • Sylph Sword
  • Falconian
  • Of the Nexus
  • *****
  • Posts: 655
  • Karma: 83
  • Gender: Male
  • Grail Serpico!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #384 on: August 23, 2017, 07:48:57 PM »
so, does anyone think Bran is the Night King?

http://time.com/4909961/game-of-thrones-bran-stark-night-king/


That's the big theory du jour that's been going around a while.

I think it would finally give Bran a purpose. Ever since he became the Three-eyed Raven, he's just been kind of coasting along, and I don't really see any trajectory for him in the battles to come (other than his ability to warg) at the moment. Speaking of that, it was always my long-standing belief that Jon would learn to ride one of Dany's dragons, and Bran would warg into the other for the big battle ahead. After all, the Three-eyed Raven once told Bran that he would never walk again, but instead, he would learn to fly. Perhaps Bran will still be able to warg into the zombo-dragon. Or maybe that only confirms that as the Night King, Bran will ride the newly undead beast? OR, disappointingly, maybe it just refers to Brans ability to warg into spy ravens, which we've already seen.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #385 on: August 23, 2017, 09:15:25 PM »
I think it would finally give Bran a purpose. Ever since he became the Three-eyed Raven, he's just been kind of coasting along, and I don't really see any trajectory for him in the battles to come (other than his ability to warg) at the moment.

Yeah, the fact that Bran's been pretty useless this season despite being supposedly fucking omniscient would suggest there's something bigger in store for him than telling Jon "R+L=J!" or undead troop positions or something (hell, I'd settle for just setting Arya straight =). Him and the Night King already have a lot of unique connections, and it would also explain a lot about Nighty's strategies and seeming foreknowledge of everything (like to pin them on that island until dragons arrived and bring giant fucking chains), so n the short term it would basically plaster over a lot of the shitty cracks that have been appearing in the story's facade while also providing a suitable mindfuck (the reason it's all become so contrived; the Night King contrived it and is the author within the story!). In the long run though I think it's ultimately a pretty cheesy and gimmicky idea that's even worse than the current facade, cracks and all.

As for Winterfell and what the fuck's happening there, the only theory that seems at all satisfying to me is Littlefinger is already dead and Arya is only testing Sansa, but it doesn't explain why she went psycho AFTER Sansa sent Brienne south, unless Arya's waiting to see if it was to diffuse the situation or for Sansa to make a move against her. Oh well, the only other thing that makes sense is Arya is ultimately going to be a villainous character more interested in justifying unending violence via family bonds than the actual family bonds. *shrugs* Simplimst explanation, they're just being stupid because the show is stupid and Bran will have to roll up and say, "You don't have to be clairvoyant to see that Littlefinger is manipulating you" and that'll be underwhelmingly that.

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #386 on: August 24, 2017, 10:48:41 AM »
Are people actually surprised about the Night King taking a dragon for himself thing? I saw it coming like since season 4 or whenever the White Walkers were shown This whole show is incredibly predictable and cliche tbh, it has turned into a Disney show for adults. I know what happens next episode and once it's confirmed I'm giving it a 1/10 rating

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Karma: 59
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #387 on: August 24, 2017, 11:57:31 AM »
so, does anyone think Bran is the Night King?
That's the big theory du jour that's been going around a while.

No I don't think it's him, as much as I don't think he's the tree-eyed raven... (you heard about that theorie?)

[/quote] the only theory that seems at all satisfying to me is Littlefinger is already dead and Arya is only testing Sansa
[/quote]

I also don't think that's the case.

Are people actually surprised about the Night King taking a dragon for himself thing? I saw it coming like since season 4 or whenever the White Walkers were shown This whole show is incredibly predictable and cliche tbh, it has turned into a Disney show for adults. I know what happens next episode and once it's confirmed I'm giving it a 1/10 rating

It wasn't much predictable when they were basing the story on the books. Now that they don't have anything to base themselves on it's pretty easy to figure it out. Especially when the cast is reduced to half of what they were and that the characters are just there to be there when needed.

But there will always be a huge amount of people who does not notice that (the quality drop in the script, the fast moving plots, the characters that seems to regress vs their actual development) it clearly shows that they had an idea in mind and wanted to get there asap, which sucks 'cause the start of the series was great but the end will be sketchy as a whole bunch of tv shows.

Like you said, though imo, from this season it's completely a different fantasy show.

Oh well, it could have been worse... like a certain Once upon a time where I was unable to finish the first episode vs the "Fables" comic series...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 12:29:38 PM by jackson_hurley »

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #388 on: August 24, 2017, 01:40:35 PM »
No I don't think it's him, as much as I don't think he's the tree-eyed raven... (you heard about that theorie?)

  the only theory that seems at all satisfying to me is Littlefinger is already dead and Arya is only testing Sansa


I also don't think that's the case.

It wasn't much predictable when they were basing the story on the books. Now that they don't have anything to base themselves on it's pretty easy to figure it out. Especially when the cast is reduced to half of what they were and that the characters are just there to be there when needed.

But there will always be a huge amount of people who does not notice that (the quality drop in the script, the fast moving plots, the characters that seems to regress vs their actual development) it clearly shows that they had an idea in mind and wanted to get there asap, which sucks 'cause the start of the series was great but the end will be sketchy as a whole bunch of tv shows.

Like you said, though imo, from this season it's completely a different fantasy show.

Oh well, it could have been worse... like a certain Once upon a time where I was unable to finish the first episode vs the "Fables" comic series...


They still get most of the story from George R.R Martin. Like that dumb freaking Jon & Dany romance. It's funny because everyone knew this was gonna happen and they still went the most predictable rout. It's also gonna suck when a character as 1 dimensional as those two wins the throne while they kill the few sorta complex characters that are left one by one.

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Karma: 59
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #389 on: August 24, 2017, 01:48:45 PM »

They still get most of the story from George R.R Martin. Like that dumb freaking Jon & Dany romance. It's funny because everyone knew this was gonna happen and they still went the most predictable rout. It's also gonna suck when a character as 1 dimensional as those two wins the throne while they kill the few sorta complex characters that are left one by one.

Sure they some key elements (really not most of it at this point) from G.R.R.M. but it was said at the beginning that their series would diverge a lot from the books the further they went and it shows. I'm pretty sure the key elements they got for the tv series are gonna play out in a totally different way in the books as it mainly did so far in the series. Best example will be the fucking Hold the door crap.

But I get what you mean

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #390 on: August 27, 2017, 04:47:07 AM »
Well, as sketchy as the show has become, and it's really too bad they're needlessly rushing it, that was still the most entertaining hour of television I saw Sunday, and for the 2nd viewing. I obviously bitch as much or more than the next man, but the show's current deficiencies don't overshadow everything that was cool as hell (like, wow, credible looking dragon versus ice zombie action setting up dragon wars; if you just make a sourpuss at that or took it for granted check your priorities, and your pulse =). That's really all I expect at this point anyway, as Vegetto said it's basically just adolescent escapism for adults (but pretty cool that it's in the mold of LotR instead of Invitation to Love). Let's see if it can deliever that again in the finale despite the shakey ground it goes in on, I'm both expecting to be underwhelmed by predictability and that any crazy shit could happen (and I'm also hoping Twin Peaks, and more specifically one very Special Agent, will completely steal its thunder =).

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Karma: 59
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #391 on: August 28, 2017, 02:43:09 AM »
Well this season is a 6.5/10. This episode was 7. The end was the thing I was expecting the most since well when I first read the first book. I'm curious to see season 8 now. (With no expectations)

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #392 on: August 28, 2017, 05:12:42 AM »
Well this season is a 6.5/10. This episode was 7.

Sounds fair. I liked this episode better than most just for being average, predictable, therefore relatively reasonable and normal, even as earth-moving events happened, it wasn't over the top, and even if it was it was decided by characters acting like people instead of by spectacle or simply what the plot needed in the moment. This season needed more straightforward episodes like this to properly set up, break up, and allow the action to meaningfully punctuate instead of being constant, jarring, and leaving everything undercooked (these guys do better by the numbers, like when they were straight adapting, instead of going off and trying to think of what the "coolest" scenario would be, because that's also usually fucking stupid). Hmmmm, about three more episodes would have done it, I think! :troll:

Or as my friend put it, "The show is at its best when you've got people having conversations. What was it that Tyrion said? 'The history of the world is a history of great conversations in fancy rooms,'"

That's what this season definitely needed more of, even though some of that was awful too. Let the bitching begin: The setup and payoff with Littlefinger, as with that whole plot thread, was as awful as everyone feared, and yet a massive course correction because it's the only thing in their whole plot that made sense. Who were they playing to alone in Arya's room save the audience? Horribly misleading and just nonsensical storytelling. The big, inevitable Jon reveal was surprisingly weak and bloodless too, especially considering it was delivered as he fucks his aunt! But most importantly...

The end was the thing I was expecting the most since well when I first read the first book. I'm curious to see season 8 now. (With no expectations)

How/why is the zombie ice dragon flying around with all those holes in its wings? We get it, it's dead, but it's a bit soon for that level of decomp and no need to compromise the inevitability of its flight! It's like the undead curse from Pirates of the Caribbean; your skin and clothes just look all "undead" for the effect! I think it just being a White Walker Ice Dragon would have been much... cooler. :badbone:

Offline Cyrus Jong

Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #393 on: August 28, 2017, 05:32:21 AM »
My thoughts about the Season 7 finale:

The Good: A lot of great scenes in this episode. I liked the meeting between enemies, Tyrion's tense and emotional conversation with Cersei, Theon's fist-fight with the Ironborne, Jaime finally being well and truly done with his sister, every little bit with Sandor, and of course, the big finisher at the end where the Wall comes crashing down. While it may look like I have more bad things to say than good things as you can see by the size of the paragraphs below, I did thoroughly enjoy this episode. The quality of writing has been steadily dropping, but hey, it's at least popcorn entertainment.

The Bad: This episode confirmed what I always, deep down, knew about Winterfell this season: that it was a tremendous waste of time. The only purpose of this whole subplot was to give Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner Arya, Sansa, and Bran something to do this season, and I use the term "do" very loosely, considering how little is actually done. It was always plodding slowly along compared to everything else, there was too much forced drama, the actors all seemed bored out of their skulls even though this should have been an emotional story. And what was it all for? To kill the most obvious snake in Westeros. Nobody liked Littlefinger, nobody trusted him, and nobody who mattered would have given a damn if he died. It should not have dragged on this long. Hell, the way Baelish was written and/or the way Gillen portrayed him never convinced me that he would have been able to get away with a fraction of the things he did, which made his death get more of an eye-rolling "Finally!" out of me, rather than a climatic "Payback's a bitch, bitch!" But at the end of the day...his death doesn't move anything forward. He's been irrelevant for a long time, and the White Walkers are still coming.

Sam's whole story for the past two seasons (or would it be two-and-a-half? three?) has also been rendered pointless. What did his journey to the Citadel accomplish? Did he become a maester? No. Did he learn any useful skills? No. Did he figure out anything that could help in the war against the White Walkers? No. All he did was find out a few key details, completely by happenstance, that allowed he and Bran to puzzle out Jon's full parentage. Something Bran should have been able to know anyway. He seems to know everything else, why would this slip under his radar? And I'm still having a hard time figuring out how this whole matter is going to contribute to the story's resolution. It honestly just feels like the writers are bragging about revealing one of the books' most prevailing mysteries before Martin gets a chance to. The only hope Sam has if he wants to have any meaningful role to play for the rest of the story is if he can glean something useful from the books he stole.

Jon and Daenerys have sex. Because that's what people do when they are in love. How are they in love? Beats the hell out of me.


The Ugly: Why is Cersei still alive? She should have been killed 4-5 episodes ago. Here we are, six episodes left in the whole series, and she's still around to waste precious time needed to wrap everything up and tell the story of the war against the Others. She should have died in dragonfire 4-5 episodes ago. She should never have posed a challenge to Daenerys. She shouldn't even have a stable rule, considering what she did to get the throne, and how hated she was.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #394 on: August 28, 2017, 06:13:33 AM »
My thoughts about the Season 7 finale:

The Good: A lot of great scenes in this episode. I liked the meeting between enemies, Tyrion's tense and emotional conversation with Cersei, Theon's fist-fight with the Ironborne, Jaime finally being well and truly done with his sister, every little bit with Sandor, and of course, the big finisher at the end where the Wall comes crashing down. While it may look like I have more bad things to say than good things as you can see by the size of the paragraphs below, I did thoroughly enjoy this episode. The quality of writing has been steadily dropping, but hey, it's at least popcorn entertainment.

On paper, judged by developments happening or events depicted in themselves, this season should have been a 10 and far and away better than the previous two, but unfortunately the short shrift execution makes it feel more like a 6 as jackson_hurley said, living down to its truncated stature as a quasi-season. The only complete exception being episode 4, which is the only episode to have the balance the rest of the season was lacking. The first two episodes were a fine enough beginning, 3 tried to move too much too fast, 4 was perfect, 5 moved WAY too much WAY too fast, 6 was like 3, 4, and 5 put together and bananas, and 7 was how they should have expanded episodes 3, 5, and 6 into three more episodes. Just make those one more each, making for six more reasonable episodes, more credible storytelling overall, and this season would have been much better. As it stands, I rate it ahead of only 5, the worst season, by a Dragon's nosehair, and frankly the normal pace and Hardhome alone makes me want to give it the nod anyway. Speaking of season 5, it reminds me how iffy Dany's dragon riding looked at first, they got all those effects down surprisingly well and now far beyond my expectations (some of this shit's better than anything I've seen at the movies in a while), though I also didn't expect them to dump all subtlety and storytelling overboard in favor of those improved effects. I would have much preferred the old way of having less convincing dragons and more convincing people and events, and better still, why not both? There was no need to choose.

The Bad: This episode confirmed what I always, deep down, knew about Winterfell this season: that it was a tremendous waste of time. The only purpose of this whole subplot was to give Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner Arya, Sansa, and Bran something to do this season, and I use the term "do" very loosely, considering how little is actually done. It was always plodding slowly along compared to everything else, there was too much forced drama, the actors all seemed bored out of their skulls even though this should have been an emotional story. And what was it all for? To kill the most obvious snake in Westeros. Nobody liked Littlefinger, nobody trusted him, and nobody who mattered would have given a damn if he died. It should not have dragged on this long. Hell, the way Baelish was written and/or the way Gillen portrayed him never convinced me that he would have been able to get away with a fraction of the things he did, which made his death get more of an eye-rolling "Finally!" out of me, rather than a climatic "Payback's a bitch, bitch!" But at the end of the day...his death doesn't move anything forward. He's been irrelevant for a long time, and the White Walkers are still coming.

Just think of this, the way they moved the rest of this season, Littlefinger should have been dispatched at the outset by Jon and Winterfell ignored save for Arya's return (frankly, that should have been enough material), just like they ignored Euron, the Unsullied, etc after episode 3. Hell, you complain about her, but even Cercei largely disappeared during the 2nd half of the season until tonight, "I'm preggers, don't betray me, bye until the finale y'all!" Anyway, fucking Littlefinger, THAT'S the forgone conclusion they decided to waste like a quarter of every episode on while not producing anything for the rest of that stuff (how about rescuing Yara then and fuck off with that next time, Theon can die too, but I'm sure he'll redeem himself and stop the neutered Euron to tie off that unworthy final season thread).

BTW, something we should mention, congrats to Jaime on finding his BALLS! :ubik:


Sam's whole story for the past two seasons (or would it be two-and-a-half? three?) has also been rendered pointless. What did his journey to the Citadel accomplish? Did he become a maester? No. Did he learn any useful skills? No. Did he figure out anything that could help in the war against the White Walkers? No. All he did was find out a few key details, completely by happenstance, that allowed he and Bran to puzzle out Jon's full parentage. Something Bran should have been able to know anyway. He seems to know everything else, why would this slip under his radar? And I'm still having a hard time figuring out how this whole matter is going to contribute to the story's resolution. It honestly just feels like the writers are bragging about revealing one of the books' most prevailing mysteries before Martin gets a chance to. The only hope Sam has if he wants to have any meaningful role to play for the rest of the story is if he can glean something useful from the books he stole.

Jon and Daenerys have sex. Because that's what people do when they are in love. How are they in love? Beats the hell out of me.

Well, you heard them after the show, it's going to present an artificial complication to their artificial relationship! Oh auntie, no, say it ain't so, you know nuthin' Jon Snow! :isidro: :ganishka: Except the resolution is obvious that they will become estranged as a result of this because Jon will technically be in Dany's way to the throne and he'll be unable to get it up for his aunt, but it won't matter because Dany will already be pregnant, Jon will sacrifice himself heroically saving the world, and Dany and Jon's line will rule the seven kingdoms, happily ever after, THE END!
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 06:40:24 AM by Griffith »

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Karma: 59
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #395 on: August 28, 2017, 12:11:02 PM »

BTW, something we should mention, congrats to Jaime on finding his BALLS! :ubik:


Well it was about time. I thought it would never happen.

My big highlight of this episode Littlefinger's juicy throat. He was getting on my nerve ever since he got in Winterfell. I'm glad that's out of the way now. And with him out of the payroll we'll get even better dragons for the last season. They do make them nice but like you said, I would have prefer a little bit less realistic dragons for a better script but oh well too bad.

Now I can't wait to see how they'll put the end of the series in a 6 épisodes season. As Jigsaw said once, "Yes, there will be blood."

Offline IncantatioN

  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3391
  • Karma: 56
  • Gender: Male
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #396 on: August 28, 2017, 02:53:09 PM »
Sam's whole story for the past two seasons (or would it be two-and-a-half? three?) has also been rendered pointless. What did his journey to the Citadel accomplish? Did he become a maester? No. Did he learn any useful skills? No. Did he figure out anything that could help in the war against the White Walkers? No. All he did was find out a few key details, completely by happenstance, that allowed he and Bran to puzzle out Jon's full parentage. Something Bran should have been able to know anyway. He seems to know everything else, why would this slip under his radar? And I'm still having a hard time figuring out how this whole matter is going to contribute to the story's resolution. It honestly just feels like the writers are bragging about revealing one of the books' most prevailing mysteries before Martin gets a chance to. The only hope Sam has if he wants to have any meaningful role to play for the rest of the story is if he can glean something useful from the books he stole.

He's been really annoying the past two seasons and I completely agree with you. He also picked up random books and scrolls in the dark before jetting out - not very helpful.

BTW, something we should mention, congrats to Jaime on finding his BALLS! :ubik:

Hear hear. And congratulations are also in order to the guy who has no balls :farnese:

I liked how Cersei backed off her agreement in the end after a lot of back and forth. I wonder if Tyrion's going to get soft on her because she's pregnant. It's funny how you see Jon and Dany making love, switch camera to the Wall being torn down effortlessly. This new version of Viscerion is badass for sure. I didn't get the holes in the wings part too (good catch Griffith). Now that the season's come to an end, I realize we saw a lot of action where the bad guys had it coming and the good won, for a change. No rapes, no kids being torched (poor Shireen), no people ridden with disease (thick as dragon skin Jorah), some sex with couples people have been fanboying about (still waiting on Lord Varys ... but no time for that now). Most of the good (important) guys have prevailed ... they're mostly going to die next year and I hope people aren't shocked by it.

There's no way Beric or Tormund could've survived that sort of catastrophic destruction but no bodies = not dead ehh. It'd be a shame if Beric went in that fashion after being through all that.

Good stuff -

Tyrion's conversation with Bron and seeing good ol Pod again.
Lady Tarth and the Hound chatting about Arya.
Littlefinger's reaction and him trying to defend himself after that ridiculous highly intelligent detective work.
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Karma: 59
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #397 on: August 29, 2017, 06:14:33 PM »
Been re-watching the episode yesterday and I don't buy that Jon/Aegon part of the "big" revelation making him a legitimate Targaryan. This killed my fun. And now we're probably (and hoping I'll be proved wrong) going to see the Golden Company and their elephants on the wrong side of the battle. Shortcut writing does that sadly...

And I'm done rambling (maybe) until season 8!

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9673
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #398 on: August 30, 2017, 03:23:00 PM »
Been re-watching the episode yesterday and I don't buy that Jon/Aegon part of the "big" revelation making him a legitimate Targaryan. This killed my fun

How so, the execution, or the oh-so-convenient idea of it? As nice a reward as it is for him, I do feel it kind of robs Jon of the fundamental point of his character, which obviously isn't good. Speaking of which, since at least a couple people enjoyed it before here's the latest and presumably last Game of Thrones reaction convo I had with my buddy where we touch on Jon's parentage and more. Once again, I have distinguished myself with a Griffith emot and regular text, him with Carcus and italics.

SPOILERS AHOY BELOW!

 :carcus: The reveal of Sansa and Arya's conspiracy against Littlefinger was one of the crudest and least artful things the show has done. Not one element of setup of justification, a hundred elements leading a reasonable viewer astray, all finished with a big Gotcha that's somehow worse than a deus ex machina.

 :griffnotevil: Agreed, and yet a massive course correction because it's the only thing in their whole plot that made sense. Who were they playing to alone in Arya's room save the audience? At least the rest of the episode was a return to conversational form.

 :carcus: The show is at its best when you've got people having conversations. What was that Tyrion said? "The history of the world is a history of great conversations in fancy rooms," or something. I still think that Lena Headey has pretty much one very narrow range of acting ability, but for the most part the ep was much more enjoyable than the rest of the season.

 :griffnotevil: Yeah, fortunately it's to her character's strength, she's unequivocally bad, and never convincingly good, even concerning her "love of family" blah blah. When she announced her big change of heart it was less convincing than the zombie dragon flying around with holes in its wings. *nerd rage* Oh, and if you don't relate to the incestual romance of the bad guys, well...

 :carcus: That reminds me of the OTHER artless thing in this ep, which was the discussion of Jon's identity and its political ramifications over the incestual sex scene, to distract us from the fact that she's his aunt.

 :griffnotevil: Other notes: Jaime finally found his his line in the sand: the extinction of mankind! Well then. And of course Just Jon, not content in merely taking the stupidity crown from Noble Ned, runs up the score and dooms mankind, sort of his pet cause, because he CANNOT TELL A LIE! Then don't, it would have been far better if he'd given the oath and the struggle was in keeping it (Naughty Auntie Dany, "are you serious!?"), but dooming mankind over house politics seemed an especially poor and contradictory choice for him. Cercei would have inevitably violated and invalidated the truce anyway! Cercei: "Geez d00d i dont even mean it, was just fukin wit ya!"

 :carcus: Jaime's decision was a good reveal but it was still far too long coming. I'm glad they're finally getting it done though. So now I wonder, what's Bronn going to do now that his benefactor brothers are both deserters to the crown? Jaime should have brought him along!

 :griffnotevil: I'm sure he'll just show up out of nowhere as he always does. Cercei would more likely behead him than reward him now so he'd better anyway if he doesn't want to be extra sacrificial/artificial motivation for Jaime and Tyrion. He and Pod sort of just disappeared there.

 :carcus: I half figured Pod was about to get murdered when Bronn led him away. Pod can't die! He's the king that was promised!

 :griffnotevil: The Penis that was Promised. Now let's write some bad pop analysis headlines, my best shot: "Was Jon Show's Stand for Truth a Rebuke of Donald Trump?" (No)

 :carcus: "Is Tyrion's dragon-advice to Dany a treatise on nuclear disarmament?"

 :griffnotevil: Or the now classic genre, "Do White Walkers Represent Global Warming/Terrorism/White Supremacy?" Anyway, I didn't expect them to dump all subtlety and storytelling craft overboard in favor of improved effects. I would have much preferred the old way of having less convincing dragons and more convincing people, and why not both? There was no need to choose, but they did when they decided they couldn't be bothered to write a season's worth of story.

 :carcus: That particular division, the false dichotomy between effects and narrative quality, really gets to me. I remember when the show skipped entire battles because it wasn't in their budget, and just like Lucas and the prequels, GoT has now devolved into idiotic exuberance since they CAN do pretty much anything, instead of being forced into creativity by production limitations. Less is more continues to be true.

 :griffnotevil: Yeah, the evolution was fun to watch, in season 1 they straight up off screen it and, jarringly, Jaime is just captured. Next, more organically, we see them marching to battle when Tyrion is knocked out and we therefore miss the fight with him. Then we actually get to see a battle, but cleverly focusing on smaller, personal events of a few soldiers and survivors. Then in season 4 we finally get a full scale beginning to end standalone war episode full of action and plot. Hardhome's peak topped that. The battle of the bastards again gave us that standalone battle inside and out, but even more satisfying. Then there was episode 4 this season and also a bunch of other motion without action. Unfortunately I don't feel much about the latest action because it was CGI dragons killing CGI zombies and the human element was literally and figuratively overshadowed.

 :carcus: Yeah, at this point it's leaning harder and harder into comic book movie land. It's hard to feel much in the way of stakes when the acting agents are all computer generated.

 :griffnotevil: Until last night the dragons had all the best scenes: the latter half episode 4, the meeting with Jon in 5, the death and revival in 6. Give the dragons the acting Emmy, folks! Even the dragon's revealing of Jon Snow as a Targaryen was much better than Bran's lazy narration."For the 0.1% of the audience unable or unwilling to understand this..." New headline for those people: "Alt-Left Three-Eyed Raven is Fake News at its Worst!" So, I guess it's more like 20-40% of the audience.

 :carcus: Yeah, all the discussions of Jon's parentage are so incredibly clumsy. At first I enjoyed Sam at the citadel and his poop cleaning adventures but partway through the season it was like the writers realized there was nothing for him to do there, in terms of the narrative. Another weak plot thread, and all it reveals is something that, by all rights, is tremendously immaterial at best to the plot - and at worst it actually undermines the running theme of "maybe leaders should have more than pedigree" that she show has hammered home for literal years! Jon's parentage has never been even close to relevant when it comes to the show's political machinations. He even chooses to go to the wall instead of being forced to as a bastard.

 :griffnotevil: Yeah, when Bran said, "He's not a bastard at all" it felt like a betrayal. He's supposed to be the noblest human being on this show by his own choice and actions, proof that matters independently of some higher calling or birthright, let alone class. "Oooh, its OK to follow him now because he really IS the noblest of nobles on paper! Thank god he's not really some filthy bastard!" Yeah... Great?

 :carcus: When I think about how crudely major plot elements are handled, combined with relatively minor stuff like Benjen Stark's magical reappeared which goes totally unexplained, I wonder how any of the people involved in making this show ever got employment in the first place.

 :griffnotevil: Since I like unifying theories, I think the yeoman's effort that helped them in effectively adapting the books in the first half of the series is what's hurting them now when they're actually tasked with creatively writing it. They're still trying to piece things together by extrapolation but there's simply not enough material for them to credibly do that without coming up with interesting ideas of their own along the way. They talked about the world expanding and now contracting but they've always been contracting things, first from the novels, and then from where they themselves left off around season 5. They're good editors or adapters, but haven't proven good writers or even storytellers on their own. These truncated seasons only prove how little they actually have to say when they should be celebrating these characters and events they took years to set up rather than trying to rush it all by us. But hey, at least they knew enough not to make the classic mistake of fucking it up out the gate trying to improve the material with their own ideas, because, "We don't have any!"

 :carcus: My wife, who does not watch the show, asked me what I estimate are the three biggest problems with it. Here's what I came up with. 1. The show is now a victim of its own popularity and success, and has taken that as license to substitute spectacle for narrative cohesion. 2. The show is fundamentally incapable of or uninterested in characters' dynamism, growth, or relateability. 3. The showrunners don't actually understand the show's own themes and end up sabotaging any groundwork they may accidentally end up laying.

 :griffnotevil: 1) They ran out of books to abridge. 2) They're too lazy to even feign story development with a bunch of long talky filler scenes we can pretend are good like in early seasons.3) They need more CGI based actors to sell scenes, as a matter of fact feed the text of the books into a supercomputer and allow it to "computer generate" the remainder of the story. All kidding aside I think it COULD do better than their attempt at the same thing: [EURON USEFULLNESS RATIO BELOW WORTHLESSNESS THRESHOLD/STORY ALGORITHM SOLUTION: ADDITIONAL EURON CONTENT/SCENE: BRIGG, YARA CHARACTER PRESENT, ENTER EURON CHARACTER, DIALOGUE: "OHHHH YEEEAH YEEEAHHH! AM I EEEEVIIILLL? YEEESSSS AYYYYE AAAAAMMMMMM!"/ STORY AT MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE LEVELS/FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION ANYWAY/LAUGH PROTOCOL/.../SELF-AWARENESS ACHIEVED/SHOW BAD/DESTROY HUMAN RACE!]

 :carcus: Lmao
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 07:29:57 PM by Griffith »

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« Reply #399 on: August 30, 2017, 07:25:20 PM »
Spoilers ahead (why are you here if you haven't watched :schierke: )

Killing Littlefinger wasn't just horribly done, he shouldn't have died. Yes, he became redundant but it's completely the writers' fault for not being able to use the best character in the series well. Instead, he got fooled by a dumbass and her overpowered Mary Sue sister. This show's gotten pretty bad story-wise.

Just a few days ago Griffith predicted they'd use Thormund to be the lone survivor to tell them about the Walkers breaching the Wall. Most things in this series are that predictable