Poll

Two questions & two votes (do not vote for the same option twice): 1.) Will Guts die by series' end? 2.) If so, will he become like Skull Knight?

Yes, he'll die.
No, he'll live.
He'd become like Skull Knight.
He'd be gone.
Non-applicable, voted no to question 1.

Author Topic: What if Guts dies...  (Read 15258 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2011, 10:09:58 PM »
the whole series is dark and pessimistic

Sorry but that's simply not true.

this is a forum where we exchange ideas, its not unusual to ask other members to field their thoughts.

Indeed not, but fielding yours first is the least you could do (instead of just asserting self-made truths). So far I've provided more tangible reasons as to why Guts surviving would make sense than you have to justify your position that it wouldn't.

as I already said, your tone of writing can come across as antagonistic at times

So can yours.

Offline skullnights_pants

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2011, 10:16:52 PM »
You outright deny or refute my thoughts like there is no room for me to defend myself. In a place to discuss ideas it is no wonder I do not put forward my own thoughts with this kind of reply, we should at least be open to other ideas rather than refute them outright, which is what I said you tend to do.

I find the world of berserk a cold harsh, pessimistic place, I would not want to live there. This is true to me and you cannot say I am wrong. I view it this way because of all the innocent characters in this series that have met their end by the selfishness of other humans or other reasons.

This is a characteristic of berserk tha isn't found in many other mangas, in what way would you say berserk is the opposite, and "(un)true"?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2011, 10:25:15 PM »
You outright deny or refute my thoughts like there is no room for me to defend myself. In a place to discuss ideas it is no wonder I do not put forward my own ideas, we should at least be open to other ideas rather than refute them outright, which is what i sai dyou tend to do.

When you say "the whole series is dark and pessimistic" you are not putting forward an idea, you are stating a fact. A fact that is incorrect, and honestly I shouldn't have to tell you why. You just read the manga and you'll see why by yourself, like every other reader. That's not the first time it happens in this thread, same with what you said about how "nobody in the chapters/stories seems to get any happy ending at all". You meant that to be your reason for stating your opinion in the assertive manner that you did. It is very obviously invalid. That is all.

I find the world of berserk a cold harsh, pessimistic place, I would not want to live there. This is true to me and you cannot say I am wrong.

That's not what we were talking about earlier though. We weren't talking about the world of Berserk but about the story. About the tone of the series, and whether some characters in it had left "happily" or not. Handmade_lion and I pointed out that they did, something you've ignored so far.

Anyway, you've got quite the gall to pretend I'm trying to stiffle your right to express your opinion seeing that you're the one who came in to tell us Guts couldn't possibly survive by the end of the series. :schierke:

Offline skullnights_pants

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2011, 10:30:37 PM »
i think you take me to literally when you really shouldnt and a bit of a straw man tactic

when i say no-one has a happy ending i don't mean every single character in the whole series, there will always be exceptions. the story to my mind is pessimistic, how a lot of the good characters get killed off, there seems to be  no justice in the berserk world

if you wish me to put "i think" before every thing i say i will do it

and when i say something, to me it is obvious that I am putting forward my opinion, it is not a fact and neer said it was

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2011, 10:43:51 PM »
i think you take me to literally when you really shouldnt and a bit of a straw man tactic

I reply to what you say, plain and simple. If you decide to change your word later on (pretending that I got it wrong) then the problem is on your side, not mine. A "straw man" would be to misrepresent what you say, but I actually keep quoting your exact words, so that clearly isn't the case.

when i say no-one has a happy ending i don't mean every single character in the whole series

What am I supposed to reply to that? This is beyond not taking what you say literally; you're just backpedaling here.

the story to my mind is pessimistic, how a lot of the good characters get killed off, there seems to be  no justice in the berserk world

Well maybe you should reevaluate how you view the series' general tone, and I mean that very seriously. It's not quite as dark as some people seem to think. Sure, some characters die horrible deaths, but others live through their ordeals, and beyond that the atmosphere isn't one of complete hopelessness. The mood has especially lightened since Guts was reunited with Casca and started travelling with his new companions.

when i say something, to me it is obvious that I am putting forward my opinion, it is not a fact

Must be your tone then. Makes it not so obvious to everyone else.

Offline skullnights_pants

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2011, 11:00:37 PM »
I think the series as dark and pessimistic, you can think your way but you can't say I am wrong. I am not saying there isn't any optimism (again, dn't take me literally), I am saying pessimistic in its definition as

Quote
2.the doctrine of the ultimate triumph of evil over good
3.the doctrine that this world is corrupt and that man's sojourn in it is a preparation for some other existence

Quote
2. the doctrine that the existing world is the worst of all possible worlds, or that all things naturally tend to evil.
3.the belief that the evil and pain in the world are not compensated for by goodness and happiness.

In my mind most of the good people in berserk end up dead, the only immune characters are a select few, everybody in berserk seem to suffer. When I say everybody, I do not literally mean every single person. This is what I am saying, you are quoting me directly, but misinterpreting what I am saying. In my mind characters like Roshinu, Vargas, Judeau, they all stick in my mind as tragic characters who end up dead.

I think Guts will die, its hardly a preprosterous conclusion considering the poll results. I don't see him and casca surviving and living together in the end as a realistic or satisfying ending for me, or for the story. That is my opinion.

I am going to leave it there, feel free to reply, but please don't bait me into any retorts, this isn't getting us anywhere

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2011, 11:21:43 PM »
I think the series as dark and pessimistic, you can think your way but you can't say I am wrong.

Sure I can. And for the second time, you've got quite the gall to pretend I'm trying to stiffle your right to express your opinion seeing that you're the one who came in to tell us Guts couldn't possibly survive by the end of the series.

I am saying pessimistic in its definition as

You're cute. I know the meaning of the word.

When I say everybody, I do not literally mean every single person.

You should probably look the word up the dictionary then.

you are quoting me directly, but misinterpreting what I am saying.

No, you're not expressing yourself correctly. Or are changing your stance. Big difference.

In my mind most of the good people in berserk end up dead, the only immune characters are a select few [...] In my mind characters like Roshinu, Vargas, Judeau, they all stick in my mind as tragic characters who end up dead.

That's not a very convincing list. One was an apostle, one was part of a flashback and truly "destined to die" from his inception, to borrow your words. Anyway, I've already listed more people than that who get to live, but in the end it has little consequence on the probability of Guts surviving or not. Rochine died in volume 16. We're currently at volume 37. I think it's time you moved on. Judo's death does not define the tone of the entire story.

I think Guts will die, its hardly a preprosterous conclusion considering the poll results. I don't see him and casca surviving and living together in the end as a reaistic or satisfying ending for me, or for the story. That is my opinion.

The poll results don't lend weight to arguments. Just for your information since you were talking about fallacies earlier, that can be one. Anyway, your unfounded opinion is duly noted.

I am going to leave it there, feel free to reply, but please don't bait me into any retorts, this isn't getting us anywhere

Oh, thank you for allowing me to reply! How kind of you! I hope I haven't baited you with my evil ways! I know you're only thinking of the quality of the discussion here.

Offline perros

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2011, 04:56:04 PM »
I sort of skimmed through the posts here, so I'm just gonna chime in with my thoughts.

I think that Guts won't reach old age. I think one of you guys says he's still in his 20's? Still young, yet he has deteriorated a lot physically. I think Berserker armor will be the death of him, as with the previous wearer(s) of the suit. While Schierke and indeed Puck keep Guts in somewhat fighting shape, it won't last.... unless Elfhelm provides an alternative treatment (or cure!) to the curse of the Brand and the Berserker armor. I can't see Guts using the Beherit to change his fate... if even he can being Branded and all......

Offline Johnstantine

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2011, 09:00:35 PM »
I seriously doubt Guts will die.

Offline Gurifisu

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2012, 02:29:12 PM »
Personally, I always thought that he'll survive the climax of the story (whatever that happens to be).  However, he'll die at the hands of the sluglord's daughter.  It would be poetic in a way.
To me, a friend would never help my dream. Thats not something that anyone is compelled to do.  The reason for someone to live is to advance towards their own destiny. If theres someone who tramples over that dream.  He will stake his entire heart and soul and fight against that person.  Even if that person is me.

To me, I feel that a friend is someone who is my equal

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Offline Walter

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2012, 02:36:11 PM »
However, he'll die at the hands of the sluglord's daughter.  It would be poetic in a way.
:ganishka: That was pretty funny. But you're joking, right?
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Offline hellrasinb

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2012, 04:08:28 PM »
Do I think that Guts will die before the end of Berserk yes... I believe he will physically die but I also believe that in the end he will end up existing outside the story as spiritual being...

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2012, 04:29:20 PM »
I also believe that in the end he will end up existing outside the story as spiritual being...

That particular allegory was already referring to Guts as he is now: in the interstice between worlds. No need for him to die or anything like that.

Offline puppet12ca

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2012, 03:26:05 AM »
meh I could get behind the idea of him dying and his spirit possessing the berserker armor

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2012, 07:19:07 AM »
meh I could get behind the idea of him dying and his spirit possessing the berserker armor

Guaranteed not to happen.

Offline puppet12ca

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2012, 11:52:24 AM »
yeah I'm guessing the armor would not protect him from hell's vortex but the idea seemed kinda cool when I initially thought of it

Offline jackalj

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2012, 01:44:24 PM »
My guess is that he will become something like SK, I don't see him dying from old age in a house somewhere in a forest with maybe Casca sitting next to him.

If he really does die, I think it will be in the final battle with Griffith. Guts will go down fighting.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2012, 02:16:54 PM »
yeah I'm guessing the armor would not protect him from hell's vortex but the idea seemed kinda cool when I initially thought of it

Well the thing is that even if he were made to become a spirit inhabiting a magical armor, it'd be the same exact situation that the Skull Knight is in. Not very original, and not very faithful to Guts' visceral character (fighting bloody battles and taking a lot of punishment but struggling to victory).

Offline puppet12ca

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2012, 01:39:46 AM »
Well the thing is that even if he were made to become a spirit inhabiting a magical armor, it'd be the same exact situation that the Skull Knight is in. Not very original, and not very faithful to Guts' visceral character (fighting bloody battles and taking a lot of punishment but struggling to victory).

well I was honestly thinking of him inhabiting the armor not as he currently does but more as Schierke was able to. An observer with possibly some influence on the armor itself. While another character supplied the body. However I'd have to concede and agree that in addition to the vortex thing it would take Guts out of his element as he has always been the type of character to not stay on the sidelines but rather clash head on with his opposition

Offline clos de knight

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #69 on: December 25, 2012, 03:01:03 AM »
First post! Hi everyone. :schnoz:

I think Berserker armor will be the death of him, as with the previous wearer(s) of the suit. While Schierke and indeed Puck keep Guts in somewhat fighting shape, it won't last.... unless Elfhelm provides an alternative treatment (or cure!) to the curse of the Brand and the Berserker armor.

While the Berserker armour has begun to affect Guts, I can't help but feel that for Guts to succumb to it completely would be somewhat redundant at this point, as we already know that happened with the previous user. It would be more fitting for Guts' character as the 'struggler', and the main protagonist of this story, if he managed to avoid the dim fate of those who have travelled this path before him.

Personally I think of we were to get an example of someone whose body was destroyed from the armour, then the Skull Knight, who has demonstrated intimate knowledge of the effects, would be a better candidate.

Personally, I always thought that he'll survive the climax of the story (whatever that happens to be).  However, he'll die at the hands of the sluglord's daughter.  It would be poetic in a way.

I remember when I first started reading Berserk, got to the part where the Count's daughter swore revenge on Guts, and immediately thought 'Oh dear God please don't let it end that way'.

Offline SeedofKings

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2012, 12:10:03 AM »
Welcome to the fold perros!

I really hope Guts won't die, I feel he'll make it to the end of the manga, its not just the "Hey-its-a-manga-the-main-character-almost-always-lives-" kinda way. Guts has suffered a lot to get where he is and I feel he may have a lot left to suffer, but I think in the end he will on some level succeed in his struggle and live.

I've always wondered if the events of the Count's death would come back to haunt Guts, but I think that takes a backseat to everything else going on in the story...
Not all who wander are lost...

Offline enjoy

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2012, 05:15:59 PM »
That`s been one of the most puzzling things for me in the Berserk universe –  how will the story end and what will happen to Guts? I always envision a duel between Guts and Griffith in some kind of bloody and abstract world. I remember watching the Eclipse ceremony and seeing Guts pinned down before Femto. I thought  "How will he be able to get out of this one?”, because the power gap between him and Femto was too big. Then the animated series ended and I was left with a big  WTF...

There are so many scenarios running through my head that I don't know with which one to go with.
He could die from a fatal wound after the final battle or just after dealing his final blow. It is harder to picture a more uplifting and happy ending - him and Casca surviving and living peacefully.

The main priority that Guts has at the moment is bringing Casca to Elfhelm and protecting her.But if we suppose that everything goes well and she is left at the island and Guts could go after the Apostles and Griffith. How will he defeat them with the Idea of Evil allowing that?

I think that the Idea of Evil was created by the negative emotions of humans and it feeds on negative feelings. Well if Guts is vengeful against Griffith , won`t that further fuel the Idea of Evil? Even if he manages to avenge everyone Griffith has killed , the Idea of Evil could just scheme another ploy. I think that as long as the Idea of Evil manages to exist , there will be no end to the struggles  that Guts faces.
Either way Miura-san will surely give us a complex and satisfying ending.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 05:37:55 PM by enjoy »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2012, 05:50:20 PM »
The main priority that Guts has at the moment is bringing Casca to Elfhelm and protecting her.But if we suppose that everything goes well and she is left at the island and Guts could go after the Apostles and Griffith.

Guts leaving Casca behind on Elfhelm isn't a very likely scenario.

I think that the Idea of Evil was created by the negative emotions of humans and it feeds on negative feelings. Well if Guts is vengeful against Griffith , won`t that further fuel the Idea of Evil?

That's not really how it works.