Author Topic: Berserk Saga Project News  (Read 784103 times)

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Offline KuraiDragoon

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1975 on: June 24, 2012, 03:22:49 PM »
I don't know why people are freaking out all of a sudden. We all knew from the start the movie is no more than X amount of time and it can only fit Y amount of story. Especially after watching movie 1 - (i) we also know 4c will change (some/ most of) the story for scenes they do pick from the manga, and (ii) expecting a 1:1 of the manga or even a 1:1 of the 97 series is being unreasonable.
I was prepared to swallow a lot of bullshit for the sake of the runtimes of these movies, as a pretty positive person I would have been able to overlook many things to enjoy the final product, within reason. But taking Zodd's part out of the Boscone battle? There's no excuse whatsoever, that didn't need to take up any time at all, maybe 45 seconds. So the only conclusions I can make as to why it was taken out is that Studio 4C just flat out, I don't know, didn't think it was good enough for their awesome movie, they disagreed with Miura about his own creation. Or they just didn't get it. Or perhaps they just weren't skilled enough to animate it. Or maybe they were too lazy to make a new 3d sword model for Guts. Whatever the case, there is just no excuse for it at all.

People are concluding that the point of these movies is to highlight the action and make it mostly about the cool battles, at the expense of character development and other thing. Well that scene was the coolest battle scene up to that point in the Golden Age, by far. When I first watched the 97 anime, which is what got me into Berserk in the first place, that scene was one of the most epic things I had ever seen. It was so unexpected and just made me squeal with excitement. And they just got rid of it, for no reason. Way to go, assholes. You fail on every level.

And the thing that really pisses me off is that it sounds like they did a pretty good job with the Griffith/Charlotte sex scene and Griffith's imprisonment/torture scenes, and I would really like to watch that and appreciate it, but I won't be able to after watching the reprehensible bullshit that precedes it.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 03:33:25 PM by KuraiDragoon »
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Offline Skeleton

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1976 on: June 24, 2012, 03:24:34 PM »
Movie 1, opening scene - not in the manga for that long. Still given a lot of importance to by 4C. I mean, we know what to expect in movies 2 and 3 after that. I agree with Walter and there's little we can do. Reading some troll posts on here is disappointing, especially when we know what to expect of the studio's direction.

So you tell us what we are allowed to say with regards to the film, and we will try to stick within your guidelines.  We don't want to be trolling, after all.

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1977 on: June 24, 2012, 03:36:30 PM »
I think both Walter and hellrasinbrasin have pretty much voiced the reasons for my disgust. Any true Berserk fan knows that the story takes priority over the battle sequences (not to say they're not important, but they can be sized down to accommodate the story) . It seems that Studio 4C have attempted to make a mindless popcorn flick for people who have yet to be introduced to Berserk and have neglected the fan base entirely in some sort of weird belief that they wouldn't even notice the fundamental changes.

I agree with you, sacrificing the story and character development to make the action much longer and better is stupid and this trilogy is a big failure as an adaption.

Offline Guts_100

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1978 on: June 24, 2012, 04:36:30 PM »
When I first watched the 97 anime, which is what got me into Berserk in the first place, that scene was one of the most epic things I had ever seen. It was so unexpected and just made me squeal with excitement. And they just got rid of it, for no reason. Way to go, assholes. You fail on every level.

Agree 100%...super retarded. 

Offline Roderick

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1979 on: June 24, 2012, 04:40:33 PM »
It's probably not that important, but is the preceding (and creepy) scene, before the torture, with the King sneaking into Charlotte's bedroom and getting kicked in the face in the movie as well?  Or is it just left with Griffith's accusation during the torture scene?  And I guess they have the right dungeon torturer/jailer this time instead of some random goat-man?

I was prepared to swallow a lot of bullshit for the sake of the runtimes of these movies, as a pretty positive person I would have been able to overlook many things to enjoy the final product, within reason. But taking Zodd's part out of the Boscone battle? There's no excuse whatsoever, that didn't need to take up any time at all, maybe 45 seconds. So the only conclusions I can make as to why it was taken out is that Studio 4C just flat out, I don't know, didn't think it was good enough for their awesome movie, they disagreed with Miura about his own creation. Or they just didn't get it. Or perhaps they just weren't skilled enough to animate it. Or maybe they were too lazy to make a new 3d sword model for Guts. Whatever the case, there is just no excuse for it at all.

Zodd's been getting a pretty raw deal.  His big debut is truncated to 10-15 minutes, he doesn't get to beat Guts down with his severed arm and reattach it as if nothing had happened and instead actually seems to have been mortally wounded by Griffith as he leaves the castle.  Now his infamous role in saving Guts' bacon is removed for what?  Making Guts look more badass and invincible?

Quote
People are concluding that the point of these movies is to highlight the action and make it mostly about the cool battles

Cool, 3D celshading-laded battles and explicit sex scenes.  I know what the highlight of Part 3 will be :carcus:

Online Gobolatula

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1980 on: June 24, 2012, 04:41:19 PM »
There are nice cameos by three different characters.... I'll leave those for you to find on your own.  :carcus:
Could you tell us please? :griffnotevil:

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1981 on: June 24, 2012, 04:50:51 PM »
I haven't seen film 2 yet so I'm gonna guess that they planeted Farnese and Serpico somewhere into the ball scene.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1982 on: June 24, 2012, 07:37:44 PM »
I think taking that one line out of context and saying that the reviewer doesn't know what he/she is talking about is pretty unfair.  That particular review seems pretty darn accurate overall.

No. The guy also concludes his review by saying: "as an adaptation of the Berserk story, it succeeds well enough". No, it does not. The guy is wrong, and our criticism isn't unfair.

I really don't understand the logic behind this adaption if they wanted to do an anime about epic cg battle without showing characters development then they made a big mistake by choosing berserk.

This trilogy is essentially a tech demo for them. They're showing off their cool innovative animation techniques. The "Berserk" aspect is just window dressing.

I've been sick the past few days so I had some time to reread some of the Manga (1-11).  This made me a little more bothered by the First movie than I originally suggested.  Some really stupid stuff was done.  

A lot of important stuff was left out, as we all know, but there was also lots of things that were changed or f'ed up.

Glad we agree! The scene with Casca tripping on a rock is a good example of a mind-boggling change. It only takes away from the scene no matter how you look at it.

They'd better extend the film's length to cap off the trilogy properly, but it's almost certainly going to be another short 75 minute run-time.

The third movie will be 110 minutes long, we've known that for quite a while. They'll still cut out a lot of material though. It's going to be a catastrophe.

hahaha and to think I actually thought that the longer run time would allow them to flush the story out!

That's one brilliant Freudian slip there! Flushing it out indeed.

I don't know about having nothing being better than this because this at least is sparking interest in Berserk in Tokyo right now.  Before this, nobody even knew or cared about Berserk, but now it seems to be getting some more spotlight.  To me, I think that's cool.

Nobody knew or cared about Berserk? You're exaggerating. It's a pretty popular series, even though it's not read by all the kids like One Piece is. But it's not meant to be. It's a series for adults. And I'm not convinced that getting "some" spotlight will do the series much good given the quality of the movies. Like Jaze1618 I'm concerned they'll hurt Berserk's reputation more than anything else.

Like if KONAMI would make a Berserk Video Game Franchise akin to what Hideo Kojima did with his Metal Gear Solid series we could rest easy at night.

God no. Please don't say anything of the sort ever again.

I don't know why people are freaking out all of a sudden.

Because despite the overwhelming evidence (the first movie being remarkably bad), people, being fans of the series, still wanted this trilogy to be good, so much that they held unreasonable hopes that it'd get better later on. Much like they lied to themselves about the first movie "not being so bad". And now that they're being told the second movie is even worse than the first one, they feel all the more betrayed. That's a rather understandable sentiment.

Movie 1, opening scene - not in the manga for that long. Still given a lot of importance to by 4C. I mean, we know what to expect in movies 2 and 3 after that. I agree with Walter and there's little we can do. Reading some troll posts on here is disappointing, especially when we know what to expect of the studio's direction.

Troll posts? What are you talking about?

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1983 on: June 24, 2012, 08:00:48 PM »
Glad we agree! The scene with Casca tripping on a rock is a good example of a mind-boggling change. It only takes away from the scene no matter how you look at it.

And the " this one's for my horse " punch that was another terrible and unneeded change.

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1984 on: June 24, 2012, 08:27:42 PM »
Because despite the overwhelming evidence (the first movie being remarkably bad), people, being fans of the series, still wanted this trilogy to be good, so much that they held unreasonable hopes that it'd get better later on. Much like they lied to themselves about the first movie "not being so bad". And now that they're being told the second movie is even worse than the first one, they feel all the more betrayed. That's a rather understandable sentiment.
I know what you mean. Rather than being intelligent about the trilogy and how it's going to be, given movie 1 as something to fall back on, why expect anything spectacular for movies 2 and 3 - that's what I was gunning at. In a few few months, no additional writing or changes in 4C's direction can be expected I think. I THINK. If they changed scenes they took from the manga in movie 1, they're going to do it again and again. When 1 came out, we were all shocked - for better or worse. Now we know the tone/ direction of 4C. That's all I meant.

I personally know what I'm in for when I watch movie 2.

So you tell us what we are allowed to say with regards to the film, and we will try to stick within your guidelines.  We don't want to be trolling, after all.
This cracked me up. You're smart enough to know what I meant earlier. Everyone's entitled to opinions, nobody's stopping anyone from saying anything. Post away!

Months ago, we all noticed how the sword was different in the dual scene with Guts and Griffith. In promo pictures henceforth, I've always noticed the wrong sword. So I stopped hoping they'd change things around. At the back of my mind, I knew Zodd wouldn't show up and those pivotal scenes that follow wouldn't happen. I'm gutted, but this is 1 adaptation of Berserk. I don't love it. I'm 50-50 on it. I want to see what all 3 movies look like in 1 sitting.
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Offline StarKodama

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1985 on: June 24, 2012, 08:42:43 PM »
It's probably not that important, but is the preceding (and creepy) scene, before the torture, with the King sneaking into Charlotte's bedroom and getting kicked in the face in the movie as well?  Or is it just left with Griffith's accusation during the torture scene?  And I guess they have the right dungeon torturer/jailer this time instead of some random goat-man?


Griffith's accusation during the torture scene is all that remains in the movie of the King's feelings for Charlotte. The torturer is faithful to the manga, though.

As for the cameos... hellraisinbraisin was right. You see Farnese and Serpico in the ballroom scene, and towards the end of the movie, Guts passes a cart on the road carrying Puck in a cage.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 08:56:42 PM by StarKodama »

Offline Walter

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1986 on: June 24, 2012, 08:46:38 PM »
As for the cameos... hellraisinbraisin was right. You see Farnese and Serpico in the ballroom scene, and towards the end of the movie, Guts passes a cart on the road carrying Puck in a cage.

Oh... oh shit... gonna.. ba- ... toss it all...!

Things just got ugly.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1987 on: June 24, 2012, 08:50:00 PM »
You see Farnese and Serpico in the ballroom scene, and towards the end of the movie, Guts passes a cart on the road carrying Puck in a cage.

Shaking my head here.

Offline pirkaf 2000

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1988 on: June 24, 2012, 08:58:06 PM »
Oh... oh shit... gonna.. ba- ... toss it all...!

Things just got ugly.
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Bravo studio4c, bravo ! :ubik:


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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1989 on: June 24, 2012, 09:06:21 PM »
... I didn't really see an issue with Studio4c having Farnese and Serpico introduced during the ballroom. She's a noblewoman and would have come to the ball to represent house Vandimion .

Offline Walter

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1990 on: June 24, 2012, 09:10:53 PM »
... I didn't really see an issue with having Farnese and Serpico introduced during the ballroom. She's a noblewoman and would have come to the ball in her father's stead to represent house Vandimion .
That's a pretty absurd notion, man. Farnese was a troublesome, unreliable child. It's why her father sent her away to join the Holy Iron Chain Knights. And in this sequence, she would be 2 years younger than when we first encountered her. So yeah, still crazy. Hardly someone to "represent house Vandimion."

And that's just addressing the technical reason that it's stupid to introduce her now.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1991 on: June 24, 2012, 09:14:54 PM »
... I didn't really see an issue with having Farnese and Serpico introduced during the ballroom. She's a noblewoman and would have come to the ball in her father's stead to represent house Vandimion.

First off, fuck using spoiler tags for this. Second, like Walter said, Vandimion would never send Farnese to represent him anywhere given their history together. Third, why would house Vandimion be present at a ball celebrating Midland's victory in the war against Tudor? It's not a very bright inclusion, no matter how you think of it.

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1992 on: June 24, 2012, 09:53:34 PM »
Its not that I'm arguing just to argue Aaz that's not my intent. I was simply saying and its probably my fault for not wording it right initially that random character appearances as is the case with Farnese being at the ball were devoid of any justification for her character being there in the 1st place.

 :judo:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1993 on: June 24, 2012, 10:01:23 PM »
I was simply saying [...] that random character appearances as is the case with Farnese being at the ball were devoid of any justification for her character being there in the 1st place.

Well Ok, but that doesn't mean it's alright for them to pull that kind of move... It's incoherent with the rest of the story.

Offline Saephon

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1994 on: June 24, 2012, 11:49:32 PM »
This is depressing. I'll never understand why adaptations are notoriously idiotic. Nearly every single book that becomes a movie or TV show sports a myriad of ridiculous decisions that shit all over the plot and make it hard for newcomers to even understand what's going on. Often there's a butterfly effect too. And I'm not talking nitpicky stuff, but things that are at the core of the storyline. And all I ever hear is, "It's an adaptation and changes have to be made."

I don't fucking buy it. What is fundamentally wrong with the people in charge of this shit that they don't stop dead in their tracks when coming up with these horrifying decisions? Is it just a case of only businessmen being in the position to make the calls? I can't believe a real Berserk fan could contain their vomit during one of the company's meetings. I apologize for my harsh language; I'm just disgusted. There's no way I'm watching the other two movies at this point.
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Offline arrowchild

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1995 on: June 25, 2012, 12:29:26 AM »
No. The guy also concludes his review by saying: "as an adaptation of the Berserk story, it succeeds well enough". No, it does not. The guy is wrong, and our criticism isn't unfair.


If 'the guy is wrong,' I suppose that means that the first movie must have been pretty awesome since his review is entitled  "Berserk: The Egg of the King Is an Ugly, Inferior Rehash."    :slan:

Seriously though, I'm more than a little depressed about the early reports of the second movie.  I know I was being unreasonably optimistic, but I was really, truly hoping that the second movie would make up for the first.  I don't love Berserk for the epic battles.  I love Berserk because of the character development.  It breaks my heart a little that so much of what I love is being tossed out the window in these adaptations.

Offline Oburi

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1996 on: June 25, 2012, 12:46:07 AM »
Quote
Because despite the overwhelming evidence (the first movie being remarkably bad), people, being fans of the series, still wanted this trilogy to be good, so much that they held unreasonable hopes that it'd get better later on. Much like they lied to themselves about the first movie "not being so bad". And now that they're being told the second movie is even worse than the first one, they feel all the more betrayed. That's a rather understandable sentiment.

I believe I fall into this category. I honestly never cared too much about the movies in the first place but after hearing how horrible the first one was I think I lowered my expectations to such an abysmal level that I was actually focusing on the small amount of things that weren't horrible. But from what I'm reading about the next movie I guess there's no point in trying to make excuses. Fuck these movies.

I was really rooting for them too.  :sad: Oh well, just another failed attempt at cashing in on the masterpiece that is the manga. It wasn't the first, it won't be the last and I think Berserk fans have, in a way, accepted that this is just the way it is with Berserk (and probably will be for a long time to come).

Offline Johnny Apples

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1997 on: June 25, 2012, 02:55:36 AM »
Jesus, lord almighty  :judo:
Just reading about even more of the vivisecting butchery that Berserk has been subjected to by the Studio 4C, I think I'd rather undergo a root canal procedure than watch even more of this monstrosity that is the so-called Berserk "Project."  A _pet_ project, is more like it. Something that Studio 4C can freely cut up, twist and trample on however they please. I have read about Kentarou Miura himself urging the readers of the manga on the YA pages to go see the second movie and how it's an improvement over the first one. And I fully understand how a great emphasis is always placed in Japanese society on politeness, courtesy and saving face. And Miura, being a gentleman and an all-out nice guy that he is, would never publicly say anything negative about this recent adaptation of his work or the Studio 4C. But in spite of my love of Berserk and respect for Miura (or probably because of it), I'm gonna have to say no.


PS: A while ago I've also read about Miura "mysteriously" smiling while watching the premiere of the "Egg of the Supreme King" in a theater. And I always wondered, "what would make a great master mangaka smile at seeing his work being adapted into an amateurishly CG animated, poorly scripted trainwreck of a movie?" And after watching that first movie for myself on Blu Ray while flipping through the pages of the manga, I believe I finally figured it out. I think it was the same kind of smile that a veteran jet-fighter pilot would give a 5-year old child that he sees running around with his arms spread out while making buzzing sounds, pretending to be flying an airplane =)      

« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 04:03:20 AM by Rodrigo »

Offline MrWeatherby

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1998 on: June 25, 2012, 05:11:04 AM »
I guess I'm glad I didn't bother to watch this whole thing, because people seem to be freaking out pretty hard. I made it about ten minutes in, I think, before the pseudo-CG animation became too much for me. I don't know what they were thinking with that, but it made a lot of the action in the first few minutes seem cheap and clunky. For a series that's based around action, and a lot of stuff going on at once, I'm not too pleased by how they chose to render that.

Dose it clear up later, or do they keep resorting to it?
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Offline Roderick

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1999 on: June 25, 2012, 05:27:18 AM »
Quote
I made it about ten minutes in, I think, before the pseudo-CG animation became too much for me. I don't know what they were thinking with that, but it made a lot of the action in the first few minutes seem cheap and clunky. For a series that's based around action, and a lot of stuff going on at once, I'm not too pleased by how they chose to render that.

Dose it clear up later, or do they keep resorting to it?

The first 10 minutes or so of Part 1 definitely had me squirming, thinking "Oh, God.. this isn't going to be 80% cel-shaded 3D through this whole thing, is it?"  It persists all the way up to when Guts collects the money for slaying Bazuso.  Thankfully, I found that the animation generally improved from then on with some very nicely animated scenes.  The 3D models aren't leaned on as much for the rest of the movie, though they still crop up during some of the later Hawk raids.

"Cheap and clunky" is a pretty apt description of its use in that film and something I'm not looking forward to in the 2nd film (3D Adon.... :magni:)