Berserk Saga Project News

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
JezzaX said:
The studio (and perhaps Miura, if he had any creative input at all for the production) obviously decided there's a reason to take this direction for either the theatrical purpose of the film itself or to adjust the story to fit in the time allowed.
Which one do you think made the executive decision to turn the Hawks' insignia into a Hawk's Foot?

hawk_insignia1.jpg


I guess for the sake of meeting the running time, changes had to be made!

hawk_insignia2.jpg

hawk_insignia2a.jpg


It also transforms a few times in this scene. Maybe that feather on Guts chest is a sign that it's evolving before our eyes, and will soon hop away?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Gillia said:
I'm just saying that the changes don't look like they'll influence the story...

Didn't the post you just replied to actually explain how they might influence it?

Gillia said:
And it already looks to be much more faithful to the manga that the '97 anime

Not that the TV series is much of a reference, but how so? What parts look "much more faithful" to you?

Gillia said:
By the way, does anyone know how much they consult with Miura about this adaptation? Maybe he agreed the changes/they were his ideas...

He participated but we don't know to what extent.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Gillia said:
I'm just saying that the changes don't look like they'll influence the story... And it already looks to be much more faithful to the manga that the '97 anime, so they seem to be acceptable.

That's highly debatable at this point, the '97 anime is looking more faithful than ever. For as much credit as this new endeavor deserves for including Skull Knight and presumably others previously cut, the good of that will be mitigated if his and every other scene has been otherwise radically altered. Those drastic, arbitrary changes of the '97 anime have been cited among its grievous offenses, but compared to what we've seen of the new adaptation those instances in the old series suddenly seem relatively few. I'm saving final judgement until I see the finished product put together in context, but the red flags are already there. Strange that the consensus seems to be that everything is looking perfect despite all evidence to the contrary.
 
Good post Walter. Check this out -

untitled-5-2.jpg


The color from his cape transposed itself probably ^_^.

Their combined attack on Zodd looks pretty quick and Guts seems super agile as if he had no battle damage.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
IncantatioN said:
The color from his cape transposed itself probably ^_^.

The cloak is just floating almost perfectly horizontally (so you can't see its dark inside color), but you can still see it if you look carefully. It's nothing special.

IncantatioN said:
Their combined attack on Zodd looks pretty quick and Guts seems super agile as if he had no battle damage.

Yeah, they look like they're dashing in hyper-speed, but that however does not bother me too much. Most of the fights seem to be exaggerated and dramatized for the sake of on-screen coolness. This kind of change feels more warranted than what we were talking about earlier, even though you're right to mention that Guts, being wounded, should not be able to move like that.
 
Aazealh said:
I'm not "assessing your comparison", what I said was an understatement was to call the changes "minor". Don't try making smart-sounding sentences if you don't even understand what you're saying.

As I said, you're "assessing" my definition of "minor" as a "comparison" to yours. For example, some people may blow one little detail out of proportion like it's going to change the course of history, where as some may consider it minor. My scale of these details are obviouskly a big variable to yours.

Aazealh said:
Ah, the old classic. Nothing can better express the lack of a valid argument.

This goes back to my above comment based on personal views, it's an opinion based on my scale. Don't try to pigeon hole me as if I don't have a valid argument, especially when it was purely an observational comment on my excitement based on a single trailer. If you don't agree with my statements, that's fine, but it would be appreciated if you didn't try to belittle me for just passing a comment.

Aazealh said:
What you're saying is that you're guessing there's a good reason for it. Despite the verbosity that's all it amounts to. Only your uninformed guesses don't hold any ground in regard to the changes the scene underwent, as you would have known had you thought about it a little before posting. But please, why don't you elaborate on how changing that scene is supposed to help the "theatrical purpose" or to "adjust the story to fit in the time allowed"? Hell, what does that even mean? Shortening the movie? Because if so, it seems to me that it's rather lengthening it, probably in order to evenly distribute the material from the manga between the 3 movies (as said material doesn't readily lend itself to making a movie trilogy, especially since they're apparently cutting off the beginning of the arc). So yeah, how does changing the characters' posture, attitude, dialogue help achieve anything? And why is it minor to you? What would it take for a change to be significant?

You could say that I'm basing this on the assumption that someone is trying to be creative by bridging scenes with an entirely new scene. As an example, if anyone was to see a brief clip of the old anime that wasn't in the original manga (e.g replacing Wyald in favour of someone different to reveal Griffith in his tortured state) without initially understanding the reason the changes took place, they would be questioning "why?" as well. Whatever way you look at it, to fit the entire Golden Age in word for word and scene for scene in a theatrical release, even across three films is going to have restraints and they are going to need to adjust things to how they see fit. If you believe my guessing is incorrect, then I would believe your assumptions are there are no reasons for these changes and the people responsible for them are a bunch of incompetent monkeys. As for my opinion on major changes? That takes me back to the removal of key characters, but I admit we have yet to see Silat or Wyald in any form.

Aazealh said:
It's not insulting so much as it is the truth. And what should I think of your attempts to present yourself as a reasonable man opposed to "zealots"? Is that a compliment? Futhermore, I don't think it takes being an analyst to find it odd that they changed a scene to that extent, nor that there's footage we can't even identify. Anyway, what surprises me here is your eagerness to deem changes necessary without having been provided with any reason for them. Stockholm's syndrome, as Walter puts it.

As I said, "Zealot" was for lack of a better expression and this comes from the fact that you're obviously offended by the changes taking place enough to quote me and seemingly label me as naive, just because I'm not as bothered as about the changes as you are. Do I like the changes? Not necessarily, we'll see once the film is released. But can I stomach the changes I've seen so far? More so than some other manga to anime translations (looking at the original Hellsing and in some cases Initial D).

Aazealh said:
And it's sad because that's actually not much at all. And again it's not relevant to the rest of the conversation.
How is this not relevant to the rest of the conversation?.

Walter said:
Which one do you think made the executive decision to turn the Hawks' insignia into a Hawk's Foot?

hawk_insignia1.jpg

You see, now that is an odd choice. Obviously it's coming under the same detailed issue of Guts' narrow ankle in the face of with Griffith in previous shots, as it's a bit inconsistent with other parts of the trailer

hawks.jpg
 
X

Xem

Guest
Ya I wasn't worried they'd mess with the Hawks logo. *checks huge tat on his back* Heh... phew. :troll:


I'm still reserving analysis for that 1080p upload, some of the visual irregularities might look different in higher res *crosses fingers*, like an optical illusion maybe, remember what we were saying about the ~36 second trailer? What's taking http://www.berserkfilm.com so long? :puck:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
JezzaX said:
As I said, you're "assessing" my definition of "minor" as a "comparison" to yours.

Yeah right. :ganishka:

JezzaX said:
For example, some people may blow one little detail out of proportion like it's going to change the course of history, where as some may consider it minor. My scale of these details are obviouskly a big variable to yours.

Awww, weren't you saying you felt insulted earlier? Again then how am I supposed to take this pathetic attempt at making valid concerns look unreasonable as opposed to your lack-of-standards approach? I'll repeat what I already told you: if you don't care about what changes take place then don't come here and pretend to assess whether said changes matter or not.

JezzaX said:
This goes back to my above comment based on personal views, it's an opinion based on my scale. Don't try to pigeon hole me as if I don't have a valid argument, especially when it was purely an observational comment on my excitement based on a single trailer.

You said the changes appeared minor, I disagreed and even explained why they matter, you have no argument as to why they're minor beyond saying it's your opinion. That's all there is to it.

JezzaX said:
You could say that I'm basing this on the assumption that someone is trying to be creative by bridging scenes with an entirely new scene. As an example, if anyone was to see a brief clip of the old anime that wasn't in the original manga (e.g replacing Wyald in favour of someone different to reveal Griffith in his tortured state) without initially understanding the reason the changes took place, they would be questioning "why?" as well.

And how is that supposed to justify the change? In the end they did remove Wyald. Is that your reasoning for the modified scene? That it compensates for something else they removed (completely implausible)? Very reassuring. Or maybe you consider Wyald's removal to be minor as well?

JezzaX said:
Whatever way you look at it, to fit the entire Golden Age in word for word and scene for scene in a theatrical release, even across three films is going to have restraints and they are going to need to adjust things to how they see fit.

That's never been the point, nor did anybody ever expect that. I do expect some level of faithfulness though, and it's not being met as far as that scene's concerned. You're still failing to explain how transposing that scene elsewhere and changing its tone and dialogue is at all necessary. The original scene was already effectively "bridging" the battle and its aftermath with Griffith being made a knight. More importantly, it was an important step in the development of Guts & Casca's relationship.

JezzaX said:
If you believe my guessing is incorrect, then I would believe your assumptions are there are no reasons for these changes and the people responsible for them are a bunch of incompetent monkeys. As for my opinion on major changes? That takes me back to the removal of key characters, but I admit we have yet to see Silat or Wyald in any form.

So changes that affect how the main characters' relationship is portrayed don't matter to you. Ok. As for what I believe myself, it's simple: I don't know why they changed that scene and I don't pretend to, unlike you. But I know it alters the way Guts & Casca's exchange goes down, and I can't think of a good reason why. I also know based on my knowledge of the series that it is a key scene for their relationship, and so I am concerned about the change. A pretty natural reaction for a "fan" I think.

JezzaX said:
As I said, "Zealot" was for lack of a better expression and this comes from the fact that you're obviously offended by the changes taking place enough to quote me and seemingly label me as naive, just because I'm not as bothered as about the changes as you are.

I'm not offended so much as perplexed, and I didn't call you naive but I did call you out on your self-professed lack of standards.

JezzaX said:
How is this not relevant to the rest of the conversation?

Because having featured the Skull Knight in a promotional video does not mean this movie, which will not contain any footage of the Skull Knight, is especially faithful to the manga. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the changes we're talking about.

JezzaX said:
You see, now that is an odd choice. Obviously it's coming under the same detailed issue of Guts' narrow ankle in the face of with Griffith in previous shots, as it's a bit inconsistent with other parts of the trailer

Yeah man, THAT is odd, not like those other unimportant issues!
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
JezzaX said:
You see, now that is an odd choice. Obviously it's coming under the same detailed issue of Guts' narrow ankle in the face of with Griffith in previous shots, as it's a bit inconsistent with other parts of the trailer
Deci said:
I'm still reserving analysis for that 1080p upload, some of the visual irregularities might look different in higher res *crosses fingers*, like an optical illusion maybe, remember what we were saying about the ~36 second trailer?
Up-resing the video quality won't improve the insignia. The definition of it is quite clear. It's inconsistently drawn in the trailer, likely due to animation constraints. I guess it wasn't an important enough detail to fill out. :puck:
 
@JezzaX

I've lurked here long enough to know that you shouldn't ever try to argue with Aaz, Griffith, or Walter.

BTW, I loved the trailer. :guts:
 
X

Xem

Guest
Walter said:
Up-resing the video quality won't improve the insignia.

Clearly not, but some of the other ones, like when Guts is charging on his horse, will hopefully look more natural. Just stayin' positive really, hard not to have high hopes.


The definition of it is quite clear. It's inconsistently drawn in the trailer, likely due to animation constraints. I guess it wasn't an important enough detail to fill out. :puck:

Guess not, and ironically I'm not that concerned as long as in the end the Hawks logo is made clear to the viewer overall I suppose...

It's more annoying the more I think about it, but the feather on Guts is more annoying. :azan:
What the fuck is that for and why? Maybe Guts is jealous of Griffith's pretty pendant and wanted an avatar of his own. :ganishka:

Scenes cleverly edited to contain more of the original story is clearly okay with me, but that feather seems like it has to be just added to in exchange for less of the original story.... because some jerks thought it was better than some of the original material I guess.

Frustrating, though it does look sorta cool, he can't keep that throughout the Eclipse at least. Ugh, I feel my expectations dropping somehow. My emotions on this saga are confusing to the point of agitation.





What do people think the chances are that Muira would have allowed or perhaps even requested changes like these be made for a conversion to a theatrical trilogy? At all likely? :???:
 
MrSmit said:
@JezzaX

I've lurked here long enough to know that you shouldn't ever try to argue with Aaz, Griffith, or Walter.

BTW, I loved the trailer. :guts:

Oh, I've done it several times before with little in ways of a successful result, but it can sometimes be fun to try.

Aaz, it's obvious that no matter how much I try to explain myself we're going to go round in circles, as I know that you're more stubborn with these things than me. Let's just say I'm happy to accept the changes for what they are so far, if that's an issue, then that's not my problem.
 
I watched the trailer a couple times this morning, and I was pretty pleased with what I saw. That being said, after re-watching it, and seeing the errors mentioned, I am a little disappointed. Mainly because they told us they wanted to be "More faithful" to the source material.

Reserving complete judgement for after I've seen this first film though.

(also: yay, first post!)
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Deci said:
It's more annoying the more I think about it, but the feather on Guts is more annoying. :azan:
What the fuck is that for and why?

New material for the movie. Same with Griffith raising his sword atop a castle, and probably Rickert's secret mission as well. Like I was telling JezzaX a little earlier, one hypothesis that occurred to me is that they might have needed some "filler" to lengthen the movie a bit due to the removal (or severe abbreviation) of Guts' childhood and the need to keep material for the second and third movies (this brings back the question of how they'll cut the footage between each movie, and specifically where they'll start the third one). Of course I'm still hoping his childhood is going to be featured, but it doesn't feel very likely at this point... Makes me wonder how they'll address the references to Gambino that come up later on, not to mention that Guts' rape as a child is a very important element of his early personality, and a key part of his relationship with Casca and how she "cured" him of his demons.

Omitting all of that would be pretty terrible.

Deci said:
Scenes cleverly edited to contain more of the original story is clearly okay with me, but that feather seems like it has to be just added to in exchange for less of the original story.... because some jerks thought it was better than some of the original material I guess.

I'm not going to call anybody names (yet), but we're indeed not in a situation where they're compressing the story so that the movie can contain more of it.

Deci said:
What do people think the chances are that Miura would have allowed or perhaps even requested changes like these be made for a conversion to a theatrical trilogy? At all likely? :???:

I really doubt he requested any changes. Approved them, though? Maybe, who knows. Although my gut feeling would be that he inherently disapproves of any big change to the story, but would not stand in the way of the team working on the movie, feeling that the work of a mangaka and that of a movie director are completely different and therefore that it's not his place to boss them around.

JezzaX said:
Aaz, it's obvious that no matter how much I try to explain myself we're going to go round in circles, as I know that you're more stubborn with these things than me. Let's just say I'm happy to accept the changes for what they are so far, if that's an issue, then that's not my problem.

I think the key here is not that I'm stubborn but that I'm right. :slan: But sure, I understand that you don't mind the changes so far. Good for you.

Miracles said:
I watched the trailer a couple times this morning, and I was pretty pleased with what I saw. That being said, after re-watching it, and seeing the errors mentioned, I am a little disappointed. Mainly because they told us they wanted to be "More faithful" to the source material.

Reserving complete judgement for after I've seen this first film though.

Hey there Miracles, welcome! Yeah, their statement that they'd be super faithful certainly doesn't help. Hopefully things will turn out better than expected when we see the actual movie. I know I'll try to go in with a neutral mindset.
 
Aazealh said:
I think the key here is not that I'm stubborn but that I'm right. :slan: .

This sounds like every girlfriend I ever got into an argument with. My usual response was a very sarcastic "Yes dear" :iva:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
JezzaX said:
This sounds like every girlfriend I ever got into an argument with. My usual response was a very sarcastic "Yes dear" :iva:

The question is why haven't WE broken up with you yet?

It seriously grosses me out that you're trying to twist your bias for accepting anything about the new movie into some winning position for lack of a cogent argument concerning the facts and or reality. There's changes, they present challenges, so saying what amounts "it's all for the greater good" isn't an opinion, it's just mindless. All the scare quotes and attempts to make the conversation so abstract it becomes meaningless won't change that, "It's all subjective, that's just what you think I think you think I think you think, maaaaaan." Combine that with your smarmy attempt to win the day in stupid fashion against our most useful member and I've had about enough. I don't care what you think about the movie, but stick to that and drop the attitude before I dump your ass.
 
Griffith said:
The question is why haven't WE broken up with you yet?

It seriously grosses me out that you're trying to twist your bias for accepting anything about the new movie into some winning position for lack of a cogent argument concerning the facts and or reality. There's changes, they present challenges, so saying what amounts "it's all for the greater good" isn't an opinion, it's just mindless. All the scare quotes and attempts to make the conversation so abstract it becomes meaningless won't change that, "It's all subjective, that's just what you think I think you think I think you think, maaaaaan." Combine that with your smarmy attempt to win the day in stupid fashion against our most useful member and I've had about enough. I don't care what you think about the movie, but stick to that and drop the attitude before I dump your ass.

I see no reason as to why my tongue-in-cheek remark should be seen as so insulting by people here. I made a comment about my views on what I had seen, which I believed to be fairly innocent and I was called out on them, asking to explain myself. I explained myself as the way I see fit and it seems to be illogical for some reason. I gave in on explaining myself to Aaz as I can only see it escalating, since despite having a logical answer in my head, it's very difficult to describe it in a way that seems to be understood on these pages and wouldn't come to a full conclusion.

I was very happy that the day started the way it did with a new trailer (which was welcome with open arms after having to deal with my mum going under the knife today) for one of my favourite series, it helped me through the day somewhat. And the fact I can see good in the production appears to be a problem with others here and continues to being growing into a problem where I find myself confused as to why I'm supposed to be something of a villain, which has really killed that appreciation somewhat. If that many people have an issue with what I consider to be just an opinion and would rather I didn't try and enjoy the excitement surrounding the series, then by all means erase my profile, since I would rather not have to try and defend myself against something that I considered at first to be so petty only to be escalated into what now seems like such a big issue.
 

Lithrael

Remember, always hold your apple tight
Dear dear me! You must understand, Jezza - no one will ever say you're not entitled to your opinion, but everyone is allowed to disagree with it if they want. You're not a villain just because your enthusiasm causes you to be forgiving towards the project. Aaz & co aren't trolling you, they're just very demanding of any production that might dare to put its name & work under the official face of Berserk.
 

Sammoniac

You taffers!
Come on guys, this is supposed to be a constructive thread on one of the greatest works of fantasy ever. Let's get back to business. I've been on this forum for a while and never saw anyone talk about the reason why Casca's hair are red in the new anime. Can somebody please explain? Or maybe direct me to the right place? I'm sure its an artistic decision, but Miura never drew her that way if I recall... Its gonna be even weirder after the eclipse, when they grow longer (a dark skinned person isn't supposed to have red hair). I'm just being curious about what you guys think about that.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
JezzaX said:
I see no reason as to why my tongue-in-cheek remark should be seen as so insulting by people here.

Reminds me of something my wrongheaded ex-girlfriend would say before I magnanimously dismissed her harmless ignorance, since I'm the better person. Ho ho ho!

No offense! :femto:

And that's one of the less nasty ways of reading the subtext of your statement.

JezzaX said:
And the fact I can see good in the production appears to be a problem with others here and continues to being growing into a problem

The problem isn't your ability to see the good in the production, but your inability to see to the bad. Also, the burden of proof for each perspective isn't the same; the film's revealed incongruities and the problems they present are facts based on what we know, the possible justifications or solutions for them are fictions based on what we don't know. All opinions are not created equal.

JezzaX said:
If that many people have an issue with what I consider to be just an opinion and would rather I didn't try and enjoy the excitement surrounding the series, then by all means erase my profile, since I would rather not have to try and defend myself against something that I considered at first to be so petty only to be escalated into what now seems like such a big issue.

It's not a big deal, like I said I don't care about your personal opinion, but it escalated because you continued to defend the unverifiable position outlined above against what amounts to basic factual observations, which is a problem unto itself. Lith covered the rest nicely.
 
2 new vids up on berserkfilm's youtube channel. Bad news is the new trailer is only in 360p!!! http://youtu.be/bb3lCOmEt5I

I was really hoping for a full 1080p one. :farnese: At least this trailer uses a better codec (although lower bitrate and resolution), so in the end, it's not much better than the previous version on yahoo. Poop! I WANT HD!!!

The other vid looks to be an interview with AI (singer of the 2nd song in the trailer / ending theme song). Useless for me since I don't know Japanese!
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
DirectDK said:
2 new vids up on berserkfilm's youtube channel. Bad news is the new trailer is only in 360p!!! http://youtu.be/bb3lCOmEt5I

Thanks for the head's up, DK!

DirectDK said:
I was really hoping for a full 1080p one. :farnese: At least this trailer uses a better codec (although lower bitrate and resolution), so in the end, it's not much better than the previous version on yahoo. Poop! I WANT HD!!!

Yeah, it's a pity, I know the HD version of the previous trailer changed my mind about its looks.

DirectDK said:
The other vid looks to be an interview with AI (singer of the 2nd song in the trailer / ending theme song). Useless for me since I don't know Japanese!

We've had good luck so far, hopefully someone will translate that interview as well.
 
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