Author Topic: Berserk Saga Project News  (Read 665950 times)

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Offline Gill

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #450 on: November 02, 2011, 05:04:58 PM »
If you read what I said above, the logo on their capes/breastplates seems to be a different type of Hawks logo than the traditional one we see on the banners etc, so it's not like they just sucked it up at drawing at least.
I know, and that's what I don't understand - what change in the storyline can lead to a different Hawks logo? And they also showed the usual one with the wing pattern... And also that feather, just what is that for?  :???: That's why I'm just too confused now, I think I'll just wait until the movie comes and then say my judgement about the storyline...

About the absence of some parts, like Guts' childhood... If we add up the trailers, we only saw about 10 minutes from the movie, so lets hope the rest 70-100 will include them.  :ganishka:

Offline Saeko

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #451 on: November 02, 2011, 06:04:34 PM »
Notice the small sword guts is holding as an assasin. I guess that change is small but kind of makes sense. I always wonderd how no one recognised him after he fled the courtyard, the sword is a complete give away.



you know what i never noticed that...but yeah. it makes sense to go through that change.

I know, and that's what I don't understand - what change in the storyline can lead to a different Hawks logo? And they also showed the usual one with the wing pattern...

i think the logo on their armor may either be a result of lazy drawing/animation or its just simpler version of the traditional Hawks logo.
seriously you guys are reading to much into it. i didnt even notice the logo change/difference. stop fretting about the little things and just worry about the bigger picture.


Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #452 on: November 02, 2011, 06:06:08 PM »
Notice the small sword guts is holding as an assasin. I guess that change is small but kind of makes sense. I always wonderd how no one recognised him after he fled the courtyard, the sword is a complete give away.


you know what i never noticed that...but yeah. it makes sense to go through that change.
That's a bad mistake and it doesn't make sense because the pseudo sword in that snapshot is LONG. So the wrong sword is an error versus a convenient choice. I'm inclined to believe that the lack of recognizing him was due to the fact that it's dark and Guts' attacks are super fast.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #453 on: November 02, 2011, 06:07:05 PM »
If you read what I said above, the logo on their capes/breastplates seems to be a different type of Hawks logo than the traditional one we see on the banners etc, so it's not like they just sucked it up at drawing at least.

That's rather debatable. I doubt they decided to go ahead and shittify the pins for no reason. It's most likely a lack of attention to detail (or lack of care), as shown by the fact it isn't consistently depicted in the two shots of Casca (from the same scene) Walter posted yesterday. I'm sure if we were given a more or less static close-up shot it'd be properly represented.

Notice the small sword guts is holding as an assasin. I guess that change is small but kind of makes sense. I always wonderd how no one recognised him after he fled the courtyard, the sword is a complete give away.

It's not that small (especially when piled on top of all the others), and I don't think it makes that much sense either. Guts has always been very attached to his sword, and this sort of mistake on his part goes to show that he didn't execute the mission like a professional assassin would have. The sloppiness and recklessness with which he carried it out (which led to the accidental death of Adonis) is an integral part of the event. As for not being recognized, to be fair at the time he wasn't that famous yet, it was night, they were in the rush of battle/an alarm, they didn't suspect the perpetrator could be "one of their own", and as far as we know he killed all the guards that came close enough to recognize him (since it's not like his face was well concealed either). Notice that they also "fixed" that last detail in the movie by having him wear a face mask similar to Silat's. Fuck that.

About the absence of some parts, like Guts' childhood... If we add up the trailers, we only saw about 10 minutes from the movie, so lets hope the rest 70-100 will include them.

The trailers don't add up to 10 minutes of footage. However they cover a lot of key scenes, and none involve Guts' childhood. That's pretty telling.

Offline Gill

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #454 on: November 02, 2011, 07:34:45 PM »
However they cover a lot of key scenes, and none involve Guts' childhood. That's pretty telling.
Yeah, I know... I just don't want to accept the truth...  :judo: But I'm still hoping.
i think the logo on their armor may either be a result of lazy drawing/animation or its just simpler version of the traditional Hawks logo.
seriously you guys are reading to much into it. i didnt even notice the logo change/difference. stop fretting about the little things and just worry about the bigger picture.
I also thought that first, but I changed my opinion as others were speculating, but now I think this again. But I still don't like that feather which not only makes no sense but also ugly and shittily drawn.

Offline Walter

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #455 on: November 02, 2011, 07:43:30 PM »
i think the logo on their armor may either be a result of lazy drawing/animation or its just simpler version of the traditional Hawks logo.
seriously you guys are reading to much into it. i didnt even notice the logo change/difference. stop fretting about the little things and just worry about the bigger picture.
Forest for the trees... The significance of the images I posted are that even the Hawk symbol is subject to revision for the sake of animation/budgets/deadlines. If that's true, then what else? Anyway, details do matter. Focusing on details gives us an indication of how they'll treat the series as a whole. Right now we're seeing these scenes in quick, half-second glimpses because the trailer is condensed. But how are these fudged design details going to look when they're on a big screen, up there for minutes at a time?
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Offline Aphasia

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #456 on: November 02, 2011, 08:13:11 PM »
That new trailer is rocking my world.  :guts:

PS: I'm not happy with all the incongruities that have been listed.  I've yet to see an anime that faithfully depicted the original (manga) artists vision.  I think that's mainly due to different artists taking liberties for the sake of style or whatever.  I'm just going to enjoy the ride and hope the final version doesn't totally botch the story.  I've been lowering my expectations for a while.  I never really expected anything to match (or come close) to the manga in terms of scope.  Besides, is there anything we can do?  Has anyone tried contacting them with concerns or critiques?  They should've hired Aaz, Griffith and Walter combo for quality assurance. 

PS: LOVE THE MUSIC!!! That really is quite beautiful.  I also like the voice acting.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 08:48:59 PM by Aphasia »

Offline Handmade

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #457 on: November 02, 2011, 08:34:38 PM »
The Trailer

Likes: The animation; gorgeous backgrounds; and Guts's, Casca's and Zodd's voices.

Dislikes: The revised scenes and Griffith's voice.

I'm still looking forward to the film, and I'm trying my best to reserve judgment until I see the final product, but these additions/revisions are bothersome. While I don't mind them adding filler to space the movies out a bit more (as long as it's done well), I hate the fact that they're changing existing material for no reason. What was the reason behind moving Guts's and Casca's conversation to the middle of a bunch of ruins? The background is beautifully drawn, but that doesn't matter to me. What matters is the director changing things that don't need changing. This scene was fine the way it was in the manga.

As for the dialogue, like most trailers, I'm hoping the difference in what Guts and Casca say during their argument in the trailer is the result of editing done by the marketing department, and not a change in the structure of the scene itself. I guess we'll have to wait until the film is completed before we'll know for sure (unless they release previews of full scenes, which is unlikely).

I had been waiting on your opinion, Rhombaad. I was curious how you felt about all of this. I must agree, the dialog change that has everyone so upset between Casca and Guts is also one of my larger gripes at the moment. Aaz worded it very descriptively, as he does:

In the manga, Casca calls him a mad dog and he angrily dares her to repeat what she said. Then Griffith arrives and she leaves. After that, Guts tells Griffith that he's changed and that he cares about his comrades. The whole point of the scene is to underline the communication problem Guts & Casca have (and have had ever since they first met), preparing the reader for their later bonding after they both fall into the river following their first encounter with Adon.

I think this is one of Guts' really cool scenes, and it takes away a little of how manly and standalone he is to grab her wrist and instead say something emotional. But I do think it would be amazing if this turned out to be trailer-specific, and not included the way it is now in the film. I can see how they worded it here to maybe attract newcomers to the series. It does look captivating, provided you don't know the details of how it really transpired. As with a lot of movies here in the States, some trailer scenes aren't even included in the movie. We have a rather large "wishful thinking" bin, but I'm going to add this to it, anyway.

I hate the fact that they're changing existing material for no reason. What was the reason behind moving Guts's and Casca's conversation to the middle of a bunch of ruins?

I like to imagine:

Director: Okay, onto the scene where Guts and Casca have their conflict.
Key Animator: Ooooo. I can't do that. I'm good at ruins, though. I can draw some mean ruins.

Notice that they also "fixed" that last detail in the movie by having him wear a face mask similar to Silat's. Fuck that.

You know the first time I watched the trailer, I had hoped my eyes misread that veil as a shadow. I remember thinking "God. I hope that was a shadow of some kind. And not a mask."

The more I watch the trailer, the more the second track grows on me. I can see it functioning well at some of the more emotional moments in the story.

Mmhm. My favorite piece of music from the '97 series was "Guts," and it was its track for emotional purposes. When I first remember hearing it was when Guts was on the roof, looking up at his sword and the night sky, and it blew me away. First time I heard Hirasawa. It was so unusual, and beautiful. The day it sold me. I can see the importance of having a track like this.


Side note: Damnit.. every time I see Guts in the scene where he is slouched I can't get that picture of Jim Halpert out of my mind. :puck:

Damn you who ever posted that comparison picture!

I have my own demons with that one. Except I can't get the image of Emmitt Nervend out of my mind.

Also, Saeko, welcome to SK.Net! That is one rocking avi and sig you already have!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #458 on: November 02, 2011, 08:41:19 PM »
But I do think it would be amazing if this turned out to be trailer-specific, and not included the way it is now in the film. I can see how they worded it here to maybe attract newcomers to the series. It does look captivating, provided you don't know the details of how it really transpired. As with a lot of movies here in the States, some trailer scenes aren't even included in the movie. We have a rather large "wishful thinking" bin, but I'm going to add this to it, anyway.

Well, I won't blame you for hoping.

Offline Miracles

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #459 on: November 02, 2011, 09:16:01 PM »
I can only imagine what was said when the staff were discussing things like this.

Quote
"Don't you think the fans might be just a bit upset by all these changes?"

"...Nah. Oh, and get rid of his sword for the assassination scene too."

Offline Saeko

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #460 on: November 03, 2011, 12:03:51 AM »

Also, Saeko, welcome to SK.Net! That is one rocking avi and sig you already have!

thank you thank you. found the Siggy on Tumblr someone made GIFs of the new trailer already

Anyway, details do matter. Focusing on details gives us an indication of how they'll treat the series as a whole. Right now we're seeing these scenes in quick, half-second glimpses because the trailer is condensed. But how are these fudged design details going to look when they're on a big screen, up there for minutes at a time?

simple things like the look of a logo ON A PIN. ON THEIR CHEST. do not determine how they will treat the anime as a hole. like c'mon now


also whoever complained about guts with the cover over his face during the assassination...its really no big deal. IT MAKES SENSE

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #461 on: November 03, 2011, 12:10:25 AM »
The more I watch the trailer, the more the second track grows on me.

I would have prefer the second song without lyrics in it. Don't get me wrong the singer got a nice voice and all but I am not a fan of songs with lyrics in movies.

On another note the changes (not the small ones like the pins and stuff, but more the background ones) were maybe made to not be exactly like the manga. Let me explain:

Sometimes when they make an adaptation of a book for a TV show (like Dexter lets say) They "base" themself on the original stuff but go a little way off just to not have 2 times the same story. If that's what they've done, I called that plain stupidity.

I liked the Dexter series but the books are way better.

Why can't they just do the same story as in the manga.

I have read a little bit earlier in that thread that maybe they added some filler for the movie length. Why not do exactly what is happening in the manga instead of cutting out parts (maybe the childhood) to replace it with insignificant filler?

All that to say : maybe the movie is still gonna be good even though with the changes, BUT will never be as good as the original material which is why I'm reading it.


also whoever complained about guts with the cover over his face during the assassination...its really no big deal. IT MAKES SENSE

It might make sense like you said, for I thought the same thing the first time I saw the old anime but when I read what Aaz said a few post ago, Guts didn't do his mission as a professional would do and I never thought about that angle. Now I must say that THAT makes sense, so I must agree with Aaz on that one.

ps: Sorry about the double posting, but when I posted the other one I didn't read your post before answering..

[Edit by Griffith: Modify button, bro. :badbone:]

Offline frankencowx

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #462 on: November 03, 2011, 11:53:45 AM »
Has there been any official word on the runtime of the film? I keep seeing comments about a length of an hour to 1.5 hours. Just curious if its still all speculation. I really can't see them making three one hour long movies. Thats... nine 20 minute episodes from the original anime (not counting intros and credits), less than half of what the first anime covered of the golden age. I can't speak to the length of the average film that gets released in Japan, but it does seem like stateside most movies these days fall between 1.5 to 2 hours long. If they really want to cover the most of the golden age it would make the most sense for them to be at least 2 hours long, even so thats 18 episodes worth of 20 minutes of golden age content from the original show. Basically, 3 movies cannot cover what the first show covered, unless they are sufficiently long enough to match the 500 to 600 minute runtime of the first show. If they take the route of 1.5 hour long animated feature films, drastic cuts are going to be made, lots of things will be left out, which.... blows.

Offline Saeko

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #463 on: November 03, 2011, 04:07:36 PM »
Has there been any official word on the runtime of the film? I keep seeing comments about a length of an hour to 1.5 hours. Just curious if its still all speculation. I really can't see them making three one hour long movies. Thats... nine 20 minute episodes from the original anime (not counting intros and credits), less than half of what the first anime covered of the golden age. I can't speak to the length of the average film that gets released in Japan, but it does seem like stateside most movies these days fall between 1.5 to 2 hours long. If they really want to cover the most of the golden age it would make the most sense for them to be at least 2 hours long, even so thats 18 episodes worth of 20 minutes of golden age content from the original show. Basically, 3 movies cannot cover what the first show covered, unless they are sufficiently long enough to match the 500 to 600 minute runtime of the first show. If they take the route of 1.5 hour long animated feature films, drastic cuts are going to be made, lots of things will be left out, which.... blows.

this is what has been worrying me also. hopefully it will be at least 2hrs that way, much wont get left out.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #464 on: November 03, 2011, 04:11:02 PM »
simple things like the look of a logo ON A PIN. ON THEIR CHEST. do not determine how they will treat the anime as a hole. like c'mon now

Actually, it's quite telling. If they can't get the smallest details correct, what makes you think they'll get the bigger ones right?

also whoever complained about guts with the cover over his face during the assassination...its really no big deal. IT MAKES SENSE

That would be Aazealh; his name is above the quote. It might not be a big deal to you, but it matters to those of us who want the film to be as faithful to the manga as possible. It doesn't make sense, either. Please reread Aazealh's post for the explanation of why Guts conducting the assassination in a more professional manner (using a different sword and wearing a mask) does not work in the context of the original story.

Has there been any official word on the runtime of the film?

Not that I know of. I'm sure the official runtime will be posted in this thread as soon as it's confirmed.

Offline Walter

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #465 on: November 03, 2011, 04:14:50 PM »
Has there been any official word on the runtime of the film?
No official word yet. Just idle speculation from us based on the running time of other feature-length animations in Japan, which can range from 60m to 120m.
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Offline kaimera

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #466 on: November 03, 2011, 04:27:38 PM »
Actually, it's quite telling. If they can't get the smallest details correct, what makes you think they'll get the bigger ones right?
That is, sorry, no argument. It's more likely that they get the overall stuff right. At least in some ways. They could fail as well with the right button. It's a mistake that's for sure, but it's saying nothing about the final product. the argument is this way and vice-versa just speculating.
And to be honest. There are two ways of making the manga into a anime. 1. The Faithful way 2. The abstract way. Both ways can fail. But i would love to see a good second version. The most faithful version will always be the manga itself. And i would love to see what the team does with the manga in a new medium (anime).

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #467 on: November 03, 2011, 04:32:34 PM »
That is, sorry, no argument. It's more likely that they get the overall stuff right.

Based on what? The argument between Guts and Casca isn't correct, and Guts isn't holding the correct sword when he faces Griffith later on (which has horrible implications). Those are pretty big errors. And your argument is "It's more likely that they get the overall stuff right?" At least my argument has evidence. So far you don't have any that shows they're getting the big picture correct. I hope that they do, but your argument is no better than mine at this point.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #468 on: November 03, 2011, 05:09:27 PM »
That is, sorry, no argument. It's more likely that they get the overall stuff right. At least in some ways. They could fail as well with the right button. It's a mistake that's for sure, but it's saying nothing about the final product. the argument is this way and vice-versa just speculating.

A fitting statement of such a notion, but it's not vice versa because that criticism, and the extrapolation of it, is based on factual observation, while the alternative has largely been ignorance, denial, subjective opinion, and speculation based on blind faith. I'm not even saying it's wrong to defend the film, on the contrary; it's an inequitable position because it's easier to criticize, but that's because there's more evidence to support criticism. Furthermore, it's a zero-sum game, the more there is to criticize about the production, the less there is to redeem it. Like I've said elsewhere, many opposed serious criticism of the production are kind of falling back on what amounts to a dues ex machina that will magically save all these issues in the end. Maybe the whole will equal more than the sum of its parts, but right now the fact is some of those parts look like they don't meet expectations.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #469 on: November 03, 2011, 05:56:27 PM »
simple things like the look of a logo ON A PIN. ON THEIR CHEST. do not determine how they will treat the anime as a hole.

Devil's in the detail. Botching the emblem on the main characters' chests is not a reassuring sign, and actually it does clearly show the limits of the production's attention to detail. Not that it's anything new, as we've had ample proof that they weren't being meticulous since the very first footage we saw, but it's just plain sloppy, no matter how you look at it.

also whoever complained about guts with the cover over his face during the assassination...its really no big deal. IT MAKES SENSE

You know what else "makes sense"? If Guts assassinated Julius using a poisoned dart. Way more stealthy and equally efficient. Besides it wouldn't put him at risk and would naturally draw suspicions towards Tudor given that the modus operandi would ressemble the one used during the royal hunt. Also when fighting in tight quarters he should dual wield short swords instead of using that big one, would make a lot more sense. You get the point? Now be quiet, and stop using caps when you want to stress a point, you're not commenting on Youtube.

I would have prefer the second song without lyrics in it. Don't get me wrong the singer got a nice voice and all but I am not a fan of songs with lyrics in movies.

The first song also has lyrics...

On another note the changes (not the small ones like the pins and stuff, but more the background ones) were maybe made to not be exactly like the manga.

Yeah, maybe. I actually consider that a serious possibility. Still, while we can't judge the whole thing, the footage we've been exposed to is far from flawless even when considering that angle.

If they take the route of 1.5 hour long animated feature films, drastic cuts are going to be made, lots of things will be left out, which.... blows.

Well it already looks like some pretty significant things are being left out (e.g. Guts' childhood). Don't want to sound too pessimistic, but it's better to be prepared.

Offline jackalj

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #470 on: November 03, 2011, 08:08:39 PM »
Anyone knows when those songs, from the trailer, will be released? Or do we have to wait for the movie to be released? Since the fist one in the trailer is from Susumu, and the main theme (right?). That will make sense that the song is released with the movie, but the second song from A.I. could be released earlier right? I have no idea how those things go in Japan.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #471 on: November 03, 2011, 08:10:18 PM »
Anyone knows when those songs, from the trailer, will be released? Or do we have to wait for the movie to be released? Since the fist one in the trailer is from Susumu, and the main theme (right?). That will make sense that the song is released with the movie, but the second song from A.I. could be released earlier right? I have no idea how those things go in Japan.

I'm pretty sure they'll both be released after the movie, as part of its OST.

Offline Saeko

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #472 on: November 03, 2011, 10:29:21 PM »
Actually, it's quite telling. If they can't get the smallest details correct, what makes you think they'll get the bigger ones right?

once again. it may not be that they got it wrong, like how can you get it right on the flag and then get it wrong on the armor? honestly i really think the "botched" emblem is a result of laziness.

you guys are really over analyzing it.

and no matter how many minor flaws you see you all are still going to watch the movie anyway. also in regards to the issue about Guts and Casca's conversation being incorrect; did you all ever stop to think that maybe someone translated it wrong? or am i wrong and it was a pretty accurate translation?
 

You know what else "makes sense"? If Guts assassinated Julius using a poisoned dart. Way more stealthy and equally efficient. Besides it wouldn't put him at risk and would naturally draw suspicions towards Tudor given that the modus operandi would ressemble the one used during the royal hunt. Also when fighting in tight quarters he should dual wield short swords instead of using that big one, would make a lot more sense.



ok...i really dont see what you're getting at. we all know Guts should have been more stealthy with his assassination approach but he's a big idiot acted careless as always. there's nothing we can do about that. Miura wrote it the way he did and thats that. i dont see why you're telling me something that you should be telling Miura.

all im saying is that it makes sense for him wear face cover and have a different sword so no one would recognize him.
whereas in the original adaptation, he's just has a cloak and his normal sword. all who saw him could/should have drew the conclusion that it could have been Guts causing the commotion, simply by recognizing his sword. yes one could say that he was moving so fast/killed all who got close enough to see his face, but still one of those retarded and apparently blind guards should have recognized his sword...at least.

that change was reasonable i dont see why some people are bitching about it.

You get the point? Now be quiet, and stop using caps when you want to stress a point, you're not commenting on Youtube.

ok was that necessary? like really, did you have to come at me like that? i know im new here and you probably have the impression that i'm just some wise-ass noob that doesnt know what she's talking about but i'm far from that.
also if i want to use caps for emphasis let me. so what if i did. you're ridiculing me over something so damn trivial.
stop being such an ass

Offline Gaahl

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #473 on: November 03, 2011, 10:51:34 PM »
ok...i really dont see what you're getting at. we all know Guts should have been more stealthy with his assassination approach but he's a big idiot acted careless as always. there's nothing we can do about that. Miura wrote it the way he did and thats that. i dont see why you're telling me something that you should be telling Miura.

all im saying is that it makes sense for him wear face cover and have a different sword so no one would recognize him.
whereas in the original adaptation, he's just has a cloak and his normal sword. all who saw him could/should have drew the conclusion that it could have been Guts causing the commotion, simply by recognizing his sword. yes one could say that he was moving so fast/killed all who got close enough to see his face, but still one of those retarded and apparently blind guards should have recognized his sword...at least.

that change was reasonable i dont see why some people are bitching about it.

You are confusing two levels of reasonable.
As Aaz said, it would have been reasonable for Guts to do and not do all sorts of things.
But, as you admitted yourself, Guts was not that reasonable. Him acting the way he did was Guts being Guts.
Changing elements of this, making Guts actions more reasonable is the unreasonable thing here.
It makes Guts less consistent as a character.

Offline kaimera

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #474 on: November 03, 2011, 11:32:50 PM »
I hope that they do, but your argument is no better than mine at this point.

Yeah you're right. That's somehow what i wantedt to transport. There are details to critisize, because we only have it. Okay details that may weight more than the word detail is suggesting. I admit that it looks like they are shifting many stuff for what ever reasons.

I have to say, the CGI is, as i looked now at it in super slow-motion and HD , a hopefully fixable problem. Most of the stuff could be done by a overpainting. The colour-palette in the cgi stuff is just unfitting with the the background style which is like a painting and with that very brushy.
The Horse scenes are very interesting. I just looked at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQDAUv6d_KY . And with that you can immediately see, that the backside of the horse is moving up, but the horses in the trailer-scene just use their legs. the only other part that is moving is the head. The next flaw is the movement of the legs, you see that in the shot from the side. the changeover from landing and spurting is totally off. As well as in the whole scene the legs don't seem to touch the ground at all. And what makes it more odd, the cavaliers are shifting as if the upperside of the horse is shifting. That is a huge animation fail, dunno why they included this in the trailer, looks so odd.  Maybe they should look at the horse scenes in "Spirit Stallion of the Cimarron". They aren't perfect, but still better than this and from 2002. 'nuff gripe :P