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I'm finding an emotional comfort zone from the perspective that this is either almost all stuff that's been permitted by Miura for whatever reason (not likely) or it's totally out of his hands and being treated like a completely new interpretation on the essence of the source material.

Basically there is THE BERSERK SAGA, the big shiny double-stacked theatrical trilogy with a super-sized OAV series coming, and then there's Berserk, the manga that I know and love that will have a home in my heart forever.

It's almost ironic that the logo is different. Also, no one has commented on it yet, but the logo on the Hawks' flags shown in the trailer including the one shown specially just for the trailer, is indeed different than Miura's design as well. It's like they're "updating" things, where no update was needed.

I feel like J. J. Abrams is rebooting the original Star Wars trilogy to be just one big movie with Jude Law as Luke Skywalker and Robert Downey Jr. as Han Solo, except Berserk is way more badass than Star Wars. :sad:
 
Deci said:
I feel like J. J. Abrams is rebooting the original Star Wars trilogy to be just one big movie with Jude Law as Luke Skywalker and Robert Downey Jr. as Han Solo, except Berserk is way more badass than Star Wars. :sad:

Amen yo.
 

Saeko

When you meet God, tell him to leave me alone.
Gaahl said:
You are confusing two levels of reasonable.
As Aaz said, it would have been reasonable for Guts to do and not do all sorts of things.
But, as you admitted yourself, Guts was not that reasonable. Him acting the way he did was Guts being Guts.
Changing elements of this, making Guts actions more reasonable is the unreasonable thing here.
It makes Guts less consistent as a character.

/facepalm/ you do have a point but is having Guts actually use his brain for once really that bad? is it really that blasphemous? come on now.
for all we know it could have been Miura's decision to make that change...
 
Maybe they wanted to tone down violence and make it look more accident-like with the small sword instead impaling an innocent child with the real deal.
 

Saephon

Die young and save yourself
Regardless of whether you're optimistic or pessimistic about this production, or focused on the little details that are wrong; the fact is we actually are quite justified in pointing out every thing that is inconsistent or flat out wrong. This project was specifically billed as a reboot, an attempt to be as faithful to the manga as possible. You can say whatever you want about what these little details we've seen so far may indicate, and you can have as much or as little faith as you want in the final product. We are still 100% right for pointing out where this isn't faithful to the manga; they said it would be.
 

DarkDragoon

Kuro no mahoutsukai
SKplag said:
Maybe they wanted to tone down violence and make it look more accident-like with the small sword instead impaling an innocent child with the real deal.
Well that right there would make everything suck.
 
kaimera said:
The Horse scenes are very interesting.
This analization of the CGI made me even more disappointed about it... Just why the f*ck did they use it, if they f*ck it up?! At first I really liked the animation but now it more feels like a bunch of stupid doodles by some amateur anime artists...

Like this pic:
HDtrailer06_t.jpg

(thanks, Walter :))

Damn, look at that ridiculously bright grass, and those lame horses... Looks like a shitty online MMORPG... The "normal" parts are beatiful, but scenes like this just ruin the whole thing...

Saeko said:
you do have a point but is having Guts actually use his brain for once really that bad? is it really that blasphemous?
I think this change is okay like this. I agree that the way Guts carried the assasination in the manga is just too stupid, even for someone uneducated like him. The different sword and the mask are not very radical changes, it looks realistic for him to do this.
As Aaz said, he could've done it several different and more professional ways, like poisoned arrows, but that would be too smart for him.
I think, this is just the perfect way, the golden mean. :slan:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Saeko said:
once again. it may not be that they got it wrong, like how can you get it right on the flag and then get it wrong on the armor? honestly i really think the "botched" emblem is a result of laziness.

you guys are really over analyzing it.

I'm sorry but you're just talking out of your ass here. You have the facts right in front of your eyes: the emblem isn't correctly represented. And there's no good reason for it. Now, as the many other things not being correctly represented in the animated footage (wrong armors, wrong clothes, wrong weapons, wrong physical traits, etc.) can attest to, it is much more likely to be the result of a lack of meticulosity than it is to be a conscious choice to alter the design. What would the goal be?

You say we're over-analyzing it, but it's actually the other way around. We're saying they're either sloppy, or don't have the will/care to represent it properly. The end result (which is all that matters, mind you) being that it's wrong. You, on the other hand, are saying there might be a mysterious, unknown reason for them to have altered it. So, do tell, what would that reason be? You're grasping at straws; we're not.

Saeko said:
and no matter how many minor flaws you see you all are still going to watch the movie anyway.

That is completely besides the point. Just because we're going to watch the movie doesn't mean we can't comment on its flaws. That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.

Saeko said:
also in regards to the issue about Guts and Casca's conversation being incorrect; did you all ever stop to think that maybe someone translated it wrong? or am i wrong and it was a pretty accurate translation?

It's incorrect in Japanese. I don't need a translation to know that.

Saeko said:
ok...i really dont see what you're getting at. we all know Guts should have been more stealthy with his assassination approach but he's a big idiot acted careless as always. there's nothing we can do about that. Miura wrote it the way he did and thats that. i dont see why you're telling me something that you should be telling Miura.

Hahaha, I see you're a fast one. First off, Guts isn't "a big idiot". He's pretty smart. But he's also reckless most of the time (which has nothing to do with being intelligent or not). That's a part of his personality, and that's what makes him fucking badass. Second, what I was getting at, like Gaahl told you, is that Miura wrote that scene the way he did specifically because Guts is the way he is. So to change the scene is to change how Guts as a character is depicted. And it's not like there's just the veil either, like I said before Guts has always been known for his attachment to his sword. He's not the kind of guy who'd just switch weapons for convenience's sake. So to have him do just that directly contradicts other scenes in the story. Hence the fact it's not so minor at all, and doesn't actually make sense.

Saeko said:
all im saying is that it makes sense for him wear face cover and have a different sword so no one would recognize him.

And it would make sense for him to kill Julius from afar using a blowgun. But that wouldn't be like Guts. Just like changing swords and dressing like a ninja isn't like him.

Saeko said:
all who saw him could/should have drew the conclusion that it could have been Guts causing the commotion, simply by recognizing his sword. yes one could say that he was moving so fast/killed all who got close enough to see his face, but still one of those retarded and apparently blind guards should have recognized his sword...at least.

Not necessarily (many witnesses of actual crimes fail to remember crucial details when interrogated later, and that's in the modern day). In fact, they definitely did not. That's how the story goes. That it was risky is part of it; that it was a close-call is, too. That Adonis' accidental death was as beneficial to Griffith as it was detrimental to Guts and that luckily no one identified him, it's all intentionally part of how it was written. Get that into your head. You should also take into account the fact Guts was a nobody at the time. Griffith himself was on the rise, but his soldiers weren't being paid much attention yet.

Saeko said:
ok was that necessary? like really, did you have to come at me like that? i know im new here and you probably have the impression that i'm just some wise-ass noob that doesnt know what she's talking about but i'm far from that.

Actually yes I think it was necessary. At least it prompted you to stop for a second and think about what you're saying instead of posting a one line response to several well-argumented posts without even properly reading them. And I mean absolutely no offense, but you do come across as a wise-ass newbie who doesn't know what she's talking about. I think you should revise your attitude and slow down a little bit, spend more time considering every angle and such.

Saeko said:
/facepalm/ you do have a point but is having Guts actually use his brain for once really that bad? is it really that blasphemous? come on now.
Gillia said:
I think this change is okay like this. I agree that the way Guts carried the assasination in the manga is just too stupid, even for someone uneducated like him. The different sword and the mask are not very radical changes, it looks realistic for him to do this.
As Aaz said, he could've done it several different and more professional ways, like poisoned arrows, but that would be too smart for him.
I think, this is just the perfect way, the golden mean. :slan:

God, you people can't be serious. Guts isn't an idiot. Anyone who pays the littlest attention to the story can see that. But he's rash. Not a planner, not a professional assassin, not someone who doesn't care about what weapon he uses so long as he does the job. That's who he is. The kind of man who could plan and carefully prepare an attack, but who'll rather rush in and do the job anyway. It's why he's so cool, you know? I mentioned poisoned arrows to exacerbate the fact it would be unlike him to act like that. It's got nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with personality. To change the scene that way means to change his personality, and that definitely does not make sense.

Really, it's hard for me to believe that some people need this pointed out to them.

Saeko said:
for all we know it could have been Miura's decision to make that change...

I'm gonna go ahead and say that I don't think it was. Either way, that wouldn't negate what we've pointed out.



kaimera said:
The Horse scenes are very interesting. I just looked at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQDAUv6d_KY . And with that you can immediately see, that the backside of the horse is moving up, but the horses in the trailer-scene just use their legs. the only other part that is moving is the head. The next flaw is the movement of the legs, you see that in the shot from the side. the changeover from landing and spurting is totally off. As well as in the whole scene the legs don't seem to touch the ground at all. And what makes it more odd, the cavaliers are shifting as if the upperside of the horse is shifting. That is a huge animation fail, dunno why they included this in the trailer, looks so odd.
Gillia said:
This analization of the CGI made me even more disappointed about it... Just why the f*ck did they use it, if they f*ck it up?! At first I really liked the animation but now it more feels like a bunch of stupid doodles by some amateur anime artists...

Like this pic:
http://skullknight.net/images/anime-screens/HDtrailer06_t.jpg
(thanks, Walter :))

Damn, look at that ridiculously bright grass, and those lame horses... Looks like a shitty online MMORPG... The "normal" parts are beatiful, but scenes like this just ruin the whole thing...

Yeah, in that scene in particular Guts' horse is just completely wrong. Being CGI, I think it could be fixed without too much trouble (like the way they hopefully fixed Zodd), but it's true that currently it looks like something you'd complain about in a video game... Although it's not as noticeable in movement I guess. Personally I just hope they aren't done working on those scenes and will improve them before the release.

Saephon said:
Regardless of whether you're optimistic or pessimistic about this production, or focused on the little details that are wrong; the fact is we actually are quite justified in pointing out every thing that is inconsistent or flat out wrong. This project was specifically billed as a reboot, an attempt to be as faithful to the manga as possible. You can say whatever you want about what these little details we've seen so far may indicate, and you can have as much or as little faith as you want in the final product. We are still 100% right for pointing out where this isn't faithful to the manga; they said it would be.

Indeed! And beyond that, it's not like there's anything else for us to do until the movie comes out. I'd rather read remarks about the footage and discussions about how it will affect the story instead of "OMG I JUST CAME THRICE AND SHAT MY PANTS AT THE SAME TIME WHILE CRYING TEARS OF BLOOD".
 

Saeko

When you meet God, tell him to leave me alone.
/sigh/ we all know Guts is very very smart. calling him an idiot was just me joking around.

but its clear he didnt think the assassination through like he should have because he tends to be so rash sometimes. i think we all can agree on that
 
Aazealh said:
"Quote from: kaimera on November 03, 2011, 06:32:50 PM
I think this change is okay like this. I agree that the way Guts carried the assasination in the manga is just too stupid, even for someone uneducated like him. The different sword and the mask are not very radical changes, it looks realistic for him to do this.
As Aaz said, he could've done it several different and more professional ways, like poisoned arrows, but that would be too smart for him.
I think, this is just the perfect way, the golden mean. :slan:"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God, you people can't be serious. Guts isn't an idiot. Anyone who pays the littlest attention to the story can see that. But he's rash. Not a planner, not a professional assassin, not someone who doesn't care about what weapon he uses so long as he does the job. That's who he is.
First, that quote is by me, not by kaimera :( And I didn't say Gut's is an idiot, but he is uneducated and unexperienced about things like assasination, so I completely agree with that you said about his personality.
I think, this change shows what he really is. He stayed rash, but it is shown that he has some IQ, and not a simple muscle-head, so he bothered to pick up some better equippment for this job... I still think that this change is ok.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Gillia said:
First, that quote is by me, not by kaimera :(

Sorry, with so many quotes it happens sometimes.

Gillia said:
And I didn't say Guts is an idiot, but he is uneducated and unexperienced about things like assasination, so I completely agree with that you said about his personality.

Well Saeko said he was an idiot while you said he did things stupidly. Then you said poisoned arrows would be "too smart" for him. I took that to have the same general meaning.

Gillia said:
I think, this change shows what he really is. He stayed rash, but it is shown that he has some IQ, and not a simple muscle-head, so he bothered to pick up some better equippment for this job... I still think that this change is ok.

*sigh* It doesn't change anything as far as his intelligence goes. In the end he still acted rashly, still killed Adonis by mistake, still had trouble escaping afterwards. "Picking up" some "better equipment", on the other end, does go against his personality, especially the fact he's using another sword.
 
Gillia said:
This analization of the CGI made me even more disappointed about it... Just why the f*ck did they use it, if they f*ck it up?! At first I really liked the animation but now it more feels like a bunch of stupid doodles by some amateur anime artists...

Whats up with all this hate towards the CGI, it's the best 3d/2d collaboration I've ever seen from any anime film. Another thing is that this scene is about fast moving characters, taking a single frame and start hating on it is shallow :daiba:
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
asic said:
Whats up with all this hate towards the CGI, it's the best 3d/2d collaboration I've ever seen from any anime film. Another thing is that this scene is about fast moving characters, taking a single frame and start hating on it is shallow :daiba:
Don't misunderstand. It's not out of hate that I bothered to take the screenshot. I simply thought it was jarring, even in motion. So I wanted to see what it was about the composition that made it stand out so much. As it turns out, a number of things. The row of soldiers standing on a single plane, the primary-color green straight out of the Windows XP background or Gungan battle from Star Wars: Episode I, and then the unnatural movement of the horses along the 2d art. I can't help but notice these things and think they could be improved.
 

Sammoniac

You taffers!
Regarding the assassination, I think some people forgot that its Griffith that chose Guts to do it. Griffith plans almost everything, so he knew that Guts would use his big-ass sword, and he knew Guts would do the job for sure. Guts also knew that, and like Aaz said, he is too attached to his sword to switch for another weapon (and he is extremely skilled with it so it was the best way to make sure the job would be done). So saying those decisions are stupid is saying Griffith is also stupid. Later in the manga, Guts even refuses a magcial weapon and keeps his Dragon Slayer, saying that he prefers fighting with the weapon he is used to. So its not like he wasn't always that way.
 
Aazealh said:
The official website's been updated with an interactive version of the poster: http://www.berserkfilm.com/
The poster looks much better like this. I must be very tired, but I'm having a lot of fun with that hanging Beherit... I've been laughing for like 10 minutes like some stupid child playing with a toy :troll:

Aazealh said:
Well Saeko said he was an idiot while you said he did things stupidly. Then you said poisoned arrows would be "too smart" for him. I took that to have the same general meaning.
"Stupidly" not necessarily means that the person himself is stupid but his action. Even smart people can behave stupidly when they're in an unusual/shocking situation, like Guts was while the assasination.
But I agree, "too smart" wasn't the right phrase to express what I was thinking... I meant that using a tricky, planned technique is just not Guts' style... He doesn't plan, he just does what he thinks - so he's rash, I agree. (But actually, this kind of "just cut it into half with a giant sword, and it'll die for sure" way of thinking can make him look like an idiot sometimes...)

By the way, isn't it possible that that's supposed to be the right sword? It looks very long, like the one in the manga... Maybe the animators just didn't care enough about the details and the sword ended up to be thinner, but they didn't mean to give him a different sword and change the story... Like the same thing seems to be with those Hawk badges...
 

jackson_hurley

even the horses are cut in half!
Aazealh said:
The first song also has lyrics...

Yes indeed but the way the first song is made, the vocals don't bother me at all vs the other one where it's more smooth, almost classical. imo. Still good stuff anyway. :guts:

Aazealh said:
Yeah, maybe. I actually consider that a serious possibility. Still, while we can't judge the whole thing, the footage we've been exposed to is far from flawless even when considering that angle.

Sadly true, Mr Aaz. :judo:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Gillia said:
actually, this kind of "just cut it into half with a giant sword, and it'll die for sure" way of thinking can make him look like an idiot sometimes...

When fighting against giant monsters it's about the most pragmatic (and efficient) approach there is. It's made very clear by Puck as early as in volume 2 that while he fights with a giant sword, Guts is actually a master swordsman. Out of all the battles Guts has ever fought, none made him look like an idiot.

Gillia said:
By the way, isn't it possible that that's supposed to be the right sword? It looks very long, like the one in the manga...

Nah it's definitely not his sword.
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Aazealh said:
What, you don't like that little imp buzzing around Guts? Looks adorable, like a cute tiny demon. ^__^

Not as much as nearly being able to see Guts's brain through his nostrils. :void:
 
Rhombaad said:
Not as much as nearly being able to see Guts's brain through his nostrils. :void:
I agree. It feels shitty when the thing that looks the worst on a poster is the main character... Disappointing... But that Beherit is still fun *starts laughing on it like a retard* :ganishka:
 
The bright grass is the only thing bothering me in the trailer. There's a thing in painting called the "green problem". Our eyes are most sensitive to the color green so painters usually "smuggle red" into a scene to minimize the brightness of green. I'm sure normal background artists would know this, but CG artists might not. I'm hoping that gets toned down in color correction for the final product.
 

silver

AAANIIIKIIIIIII!
All in all, I'm pretty excited about this project.

Holy crap. I've been registered for this site for 10 years, and I have only 7 posts :isidro:
 
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