Berserk Saga Project News

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
ApostleBob said:
It's pretty dynamic and intense and really shows the skill Guts has to hold his own against multiple opponents on horseback.

For the record I actually don't find it as intense as it is in the manga, specifically because there's such a delay between Dan and Earl's attacks. I also think Carcus' passivity in that scene was a good way to set up the tone for his character.

ApostleBob said:
BTW, I really dig the update on how Guts' shoulder holster works. I always had issues figuring out how he'd unsheathe his old sword without it getting stuck halfway. The new design is simple and elegant.

Really? It's a pretty straightforward holster... It's supple, like any leather scabbard, so that the sword can be taken out easily.
 
Aazealh said:
For the record I actually don't find it as intense as it is in the manga, specifically because there's such a delay between Dan and Earl's attacks.

I can see that point of view, since in the Manga the attacks are in quick succession. It's a flurry of attacks, one after another. However I think there's previously absent level of suspense built as Earl and Carcus charge Guts simultaneously from opposite sides. In my opinion it works quite well from a cinematic perspective, as opposed to still images in a manga.

Aazealh said:
I also think Carcus' passivity in that scene was a good way to set up the tone for his character.

Sure it is. He's always been a bit of a weasel. :carcus: I don't this ruins that though. There are many more instances of cowardice and back-stabbery as the story goes on. Having him participate in the attack isn't sacrilegious for me. He is a leader among the Hawks after all.

Aazealh said:
Really? It's a pretty straightforward holster... It's supple, like any leather scabbard, so that the sword can be taken out easily.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well, enough as I thought this was self evident. Apologies. :farnese:

While I agree that the original design is appropriate in it's simplicity for the period (fictional as it may be), it has one glaring problem: it's functionality is awkward at best and impossible at worst. Before you jump down my throat for criticizing Miura's early design, :mozgus: take a step back and think about how unsheatheing the raider sword and young Guts sword would work.

For argument's sake, let's say the sword's blade is about a foot shorter than Guts is tall. The manga's sheathe holds the blade at three points: the tip of the blade, a leather loop at his belt line, and another leather loop at his shoulder. Now visualize this; If he has to pull this long sword over his shoulder, through these hoops, he runs into a problem. His arms aren't long enough and he has half of his sword still caught in that shoulder loop. Not ideal for action at a moments notice. :sad:

He might be able to get it out with a second person helping, or by grabbing the blade hand over hand to pull the rest out, but obviously this is too awkward and clumsy for Guts fighting style. It's depicted as coming out in one fluid motion, which can be cheated in manga form, as it's never required to be shown in motion. With animation this logistic problem arises, and I think it's cleverly side stepped by altering the design to have a metal shoulder notch versus a leather hoop. You now can see exactly how it works in the Carcus raid.

I know this is a ton of text for such a minor detail, but it has always been one of those minor things that bugged me about the manga. I liked the look, but it would've never worked. Kudos to the new design.

P.S. If the practicality of Guts' Raider sword sheathe has been discussed before, I haven't seen it, and a search produces nil.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
ApostleBob said:
I can see that point of view, since in the Manga the attacks are in quick succession. It's a flurry of attacks, one after another. However I think there's previously absent level of suspense built as Earl and Carcus charge Guts simultaneously from opposite sides. In my opinion it works quite well from a cinematic perspective, as opposed to still images in a manga.

There's also a previously present absent level of suspense by slowing the attack down and unnecessarily complicating it. If anything, there was more suspense-filled action in those stills and a lot more putting on helmets, glaring, and standing around here. Also, considering they're skipping the Black Swordsman arc, Guts' childhood, and Wyald's still a question mark, I wouldn't think they'd have the time to add that kind of cheap suspense.

ApostleBob said:
I know this is a ton of text for such a minor detail, but it has always been one of those minor things that bugged me about the manga.

If you appreciate the details you're really going to hate this adaptation. :iva:


I'm going to enjoy it for what it is, Berserk sound and motion, but trying to compensate for it's limitations by cherry-picking "improvements" it makes is silly. Especially subjective stuff like this or Guts using a smaller sword and dressing like a ninja during the assassination. Even if it fixed a legitimate mistake, like making it so Casca's boots don't disappear/reappear during the attempted rape from volume 23, it's not not as if that would somehow validate the anime against the source material despite everything else cut or compromised along the way. Anyway, it's more likely they'd just cut that scene if they get there. :guts:
 
Cool interview with the director / producer (?): http://a.jugem.jp/sp/berserk01/interview01.php
Google translate can make a sorta decent sense of what is being talked about. Thought it was a good read!

Also, what's this about? http://www.berserkfilm.com/news/?p=537
Seems like some sort of launch event that will be streamed?

And finally, my thoughts about that recent clip that surfaced with Guts fighting off Dan & Earl and the likes... I thought it was just so so. I thought the circling around and creating the "suspense" wasn't necessary. I'll reserve final judgement though until I see the movie because maybe the pacing will feel better then. But overall, not my favorite clip that has surfaced thus far!

PS, anyone know of a Japanese website like rottentomatoes.com where we can see the metacritic scores / stats of the movie when it launches this weekend? I'm curious to read people's reviews!!!
 
Griffith said:
There's also a previously present absent level of suspense by slowing the attack down and unnecessarily complicating it. If anything, there was more suspense-filled action in those stills and a lot more putting on helmets, glaring, and standing around here.

No offense, but suspense and action are not the same thing. Suspense is about building anxiety and anticipation leading up to action, which I (personally) think this clip accomplishes. I will however admit that Guts lazily putting on his helmet is the worst part of this. But the cross cutting of Dan charging, with Guts readying his strike works great. The same for the simultaneous charge, as they get closer and Guts sizes up the situation. But I'm content to be in the minority on this.

Griffith said:
Also, considering they're skipping the Black Swordsman arc, Guts' childhood, and Wyald's still a question mark, I wouldn't think they'd have the time to add that kind of cheap suspense.

I've come to terms with the Black Swordsman not being in this anime six months ago. We still don't know how theyll proceed after the Eclipse, so it's a fair bet that some of it will survive before the Lost Children Arc begins. Fingers crossed for Wyald.


Griffith said:
If you appreciate the details you're really going to hate this adaptation. :iva:

I was only referring to the realistic portrayal of sword combat, nothing more. I've mentioned many times that I fully expect this to be an adaptation that takes liberties, and that I'm perfectly fine with that as long as it's true to the spirit of Berserk and hits all the key story points.


Griffith said:
I'm going to enjoy it for what it is, Berserk sound and motion, but trying to compensate for it's limitations by cherry-picking "improvements" it makes is silly. Especially subjective stuff like this or Guts using a smaller sword and dressing like a ninja during the assassination. Even if it fixed a legitimate mistake, like making it so Casca's boots don't disappear/reappear during the attempted rape from volume 23, it's not not as if that would somehow validate the anime against the source material despite everything else cut or compromised along the way. Anyway, it's more likely they'd just cut that scene if they get there. :guts:

Eh, agree to disagree. These things so far don't ruin it as Berserk for me. The Band of the Hawk still has all the same characters. Guts and Griffith seem to be portrayed accurately. The conflict is the same. The gray morality is still present. The battles are the same but heightened at times. Same character arcs that all seem to lead to the Eclipse. Just imagine the gigantic changes this might have had, not withstanding a few omissions and combined scenes. Imagine if they decided the Eclipse was too dark and went a different direction. Or if Guts didn't kill Adonis. Some artistic liberties are to be expected.
 
ApostleBob said:
Fingers crossed for Wyald.

I am of the belief that if this production has removed or decreased the adult content from Berserk to appeal to a broader audience, and I hear it has, then that eliminates Wyald completely. There is, I want to argue, almost nothing that Wyald does that is not incredibly graphic and adult-themed. Furthermore, I would not want to even see him if any of that was lessened or softened. He is one of the most horrifying apostles for a reason.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
ApostleBob said:
No offense, but suspense and action are not the same thing. Suspense is about building anxiety and anticipation leading up to action, which I (personally) think this clip accomplishes. I will however admit that Guts lazily putting on his helmet is the worst part of this. But the cross cutting of Dan charging, with Guts readying his strike works great. The same for the simultaneous charge, as they get closer and Guts sizes up the situation. But I'm content to be in the minority on this.

None taken, but suspense isn't mutually exclusive with action either. The best action is often also quite suspenseful in itself. Guts being ambushed and standing alone against a charging cavalry in the manga is a basic example. I prefer that straight forward approach to the generic conventions being employed here, which I don't think enhances the natural suspense of the scene so much as steps on it. Not a huge deal, I just didn't think it was that great.

ApostleBob said:
I've come to terms with the Black Swordsman not being in this anime six months ago.

I'll let you know when I stop caring. :guts:

ApostleBob said:
I was only referring to the realistic portrayal of sword combat, nothing more. I've mentioned many times that I fully expect this to be an adaptation that takes liberties, and that I'm perfectly fine with that as long as it's true to the spirit of Berserk and hits all the key story points.

Well, that's the trick. One could argue that ship has already sailed with the exclusion of the Black Swordsman and early Golden Age material. Everything after that is adjusted expectations.

ApostleBob said:
Eh, agree to disagree. These things so far don't ruin it as Berserk for me. The Band of the Hawk still has all the same characters. Guts and Griffith seem to be portrayed accurately. The conflict is the same. The gray morality is still present. The battles are the same but heightened at times. Same character arcs that all seem to lead to the Eclipse.

I'm not sure what you're saying there disagrees with what you quoted of me. I wasn't dismissing it for not being able to live up the manga so much as pointing out the absurdity of spinning it the other way to compensate for that. Not that you were doing that in a meaningful sense, but it's a general subtext to these discussions.

ApostleBob said:
Just imagine the gigantic changes this might have had, not withstanding a few omissions and combined scenes. Imagine if they decided the Eclipse was too dark and went a different direction. Or if Guts didn't kill Adonis. Some artistic liberties are to be expected.

I guess we could just use that same rationalization. Like if they skipped the Black Swordsman arc? Or glossed over Guts' childhood? If those changes can already be tolerated as "a few omissions" or not "key story points," the real question is how gigantic do the changes have to be before we really care?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
ApostleBob said:
I can see that point of view, since in the Manga the attacks are in quick succession. It's a flurry of attacks, one after another.

Which makes more sense in the context than to have several people charge only to let a single one attack.

ApostleBob said:
However I think there's previously absent level of suspense built as Earl and Carcus charge Guts simultaneously from opposite sides. In my opinion it works quite well from a cinematic perspective, as opposed to still images in a manga.

I don't see how the treatment it's receiving in that clip adds any suspense to the scene. I didn't find it effective at all in the footage we've seen (note that it might differ in the actual movie). Rather, they could have had Dan and Earl attack together after a "suspenseful" charge towards him (building tension before the clash), which would have been closer to the original scene. Then have Guts walk towards the remaining ones with the intent to kill them, and the "dramatic" intervention of Casca at the last moment. I don't consider it a success when cinema manages to be less "cinematic" than still images.

ApostleBob said:
Sure it is. He's always been a bit of a weasel. :carcus: I don't this ruins that though.

It doesn't ruin it, but it also doesn't establish it. That's regrettable. And that's not the first time we notice something of the sort.

ApostleBob said:
If he has to pull this long sword over his shoulder, through these hoops, he runs into a problem. His arms aren't long enough and he has half of his sword still caught in that shoulder loop.

Unless the leather is supple enough that he has enough leeway to take it out, like I told you earlier. Which was historically the case with scabbards in general and baldrics in particular. As for pulling it out in one swift motion, yeah that probably wouldn't be the case, but you'll notice that during the fight against Bazûso for example, his sword was already unsheathed even though he kept it at his back.

In any case, even putting those details or "in-between panels" rationalizations aside, simply tweaking the baldric's design wouldn't have been very hard.

ApostleBob said:
With animation this logistic problem arises, and I think it's cleverly side stepped by altering the design to have a metal shoulder notch versus a leather hoop. You now can see exactly how it works in the Carcus raid.

I wouldn't say we can see "exactly" how it works. We're shown a brief glance that's not all that revealing of the mechanism aside from the fact he easily unclips it.

ApostleBob said:
We still don't know how theyll proceed after the Eclipse, so it's a fair bet that some of it will survive before the Lost Children Arc begins.

It's the Lost Children chapter, part of the Conviction arc. And we don't know anything beyond the trilogy, so there's no fair bet at all. Furthermore, it's already been explained that not featuring events in the correct order drastically lessens the impact of the story (in regard to the material being skipped and to the material being featured). It's baffling that this even has to be explained, much less repeated, to people who apparently consider themselves connoisseurs of the series.
 
I can only imagine how they would animate Guts vs Zodd fight from vol. 22
Guts strikes, Zodd protects, then they walk around each other for 4 seconds -> then Zodd hits Guts with one blow and then they walk 5 seconds again thinking what to do next -> and so on :troll:
 
While cutting the black swordsman arc is a major disservice to the story, it just would not work as the first theatrical release because it lacks background context or pleasant moments to contrast the tragedy and action. When you have a manga series or a TV show, you can take your time before getting to those complementary parts. You don't have that option when you have people driving out then paying $10 for a single viewing in a room for 1-3 hours. They will demand something that feels at least somewhat complete in that short time frame.

It's the medium they chose that's the problem. The first portion of the golden age arc would make a more suitable first movie but it will lack that underlying tension and curiosity that the black swordsman arc created. There will still be the golden age prophecies at the very least though.

But even with all of those concerns in mind, I still can't stop thinking 'What will it feel like watching the Wyald battle and the Eclipse in a packed theater? And if the trilogy is successful enough to create sequels, what will watching the slug count story feel like in a packed theater?'
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Groovy Metal Fist said:
While cutting the black swordsman arc is a major disservice to the story, it just would not work as the first theatrical release because it lacks background context or pleasant moments to contrast the tragedy and action. When you have a manga series or a TV show, you can take your time before getting to those complementary parts. You don't have that option when you have people driving out then paying $10 for a single viewing in a room for 1-3 hours. They will demand something that feels at least somewhat complete in that short time frame.

What the hell are you talking about? It establishes all the context of the story, and since when has a movie needed "pleasant moments to contrast the tragedy and action"? Rather, as it's been said several times before, the Black Swordsman arc befits the medium far more than the Golden Age arc, as can be plainly seen in the way they've spliced and reattached it to fit the format. Honestly I completely disagree with everything you've just said. And why are we even talking about that again? We know what is and what is not being done; no use dwelling on what "could have been".
 
Aazealh said:
It establishes all the context of the story, and since when has a movie needed "pleasant moments to contrast the tragedy and action"? Rather, as it's been said several times before, the Black Swordsman arc befits the medium far more than the Golden Age arc, as can be plainly seen in the way they've spliced and reattached it to fit the format. Honestly I completely disagree with everything you've just said.

You need pleasant moments because your audience will eventually become numb to the action and tragedy. I feel more sorrow and care more about what happens to Guts when I can witness what he has lost and how it was lost. In the series there was more flexibility in how that could be arranged. Releasing the black swordsman arc as the first movie, however, could create the impression that the whole series will be Guts in one bitter or violent moment after the next since movie sequels are generally expected to be remarkably similar to their predecessors. But when it’s a manga or T.V. show people are used to thinking of the first hours as a tiny segment of a much larger story.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Groovy Metal Fist said:
You need pleasant moments because your audience will eventually become numb to the action and tragedy. I feel more sorrow and care more about what happens to Guts when I can witness what he has lost and how it was lost.

Honestly I don't think your argument here is quite sound. The very terms in which you express it are dubious to me. Regardless, I will say that the Black Swordsman arc is narratively very well put together, and while its overall tone is pretty dark it's clearly not just a succession of "tragedies" and action scenes. It's also a perfectly representative excerpt of what the series is about.

Anyway, in actual news:

AkpT6ZICAAApu0L.jpg


They're cute. :iva:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Metatron said:
Griffith is creeping me out a bit there... Like a long haired David Bowie meets Michael Jackson figure... :schnoz:

Hahaha yeah, and their melancholic air coupled with the big heads gives off a strange vibe too. Still, I'm probably getting them. :void:
 
Aazealh said:
Unless the leather is supple enough that he has enough leeway to take it out, like I told you earlier. Which was historically the case with scabbards in general and baldrics in particular.

Maybe. I don't quite buy this because I can't find any historic examples of a Baldric used with a sword as long as Guts'. Mainly because very few people carried swords as long and broad as even the Guts raider sword. If you can, I'd be interested to see them. Anyway, I don't think the pliability of the leather would be the issue here. It could be elastic and that blade would still get stuck on the shoulder hoop. His arms simply are not long enough. :sad:

Aazealh said:
As for pulling it out in one swift motion, yeah that probably wouldn't be the case, but you'll notice that during the fight against Bazûso for example, his sword was already unsheathed even though he kept it at his back.

Sure, Miura's covered here. We might assume that he'd been already been using the sword in the battle. Makes sense. But there are plenty of instances that imply a swift unsheathe. Killing Dan for example. Or challenging the Captain of the Black Rams. Or at the beginning of the 100 man fight...

Aazealh said:
In any case, even putting those details or "in-between panels" rationalizations aside, simply tweaking the baldric's design wouldn't have been very hard.

Never said it was, just that I appreciated the attention to this minor detail that my OCD mind couldn't let go. I'm certainly not trying to use this minor improvement to rationalize Guts childhood being omitted. Just taking the good with the bad. Even when it's incredibly obscure... :farnese:

Aazealh said:
Regardless, I will say that the Black Swordsman arc is narratively very well put together, and while its overall tone is pretty dark it's clearly not just a succession of "tragedies" and action scenes. It's also a perfectly representative excerpt of what the series is about.

Agreed, I think the Black swordsman arc is essential. The battle against the count and all his men makes me wince whenever I read it. Guts takes a ton of punishment. And it has a perfect climax as Guts finally faces the God Hand... and loses quite spectacularly. But he never gives up. It's the total embodiment of the impossible struggle Guts faces throught the remainder of the series.

But I get why they didn't lead with it. From a marketing perspective, the Golden Age is the way to build an audience. Not nearly so grim and hopeless. Hopefully they'll continue on through the Eclipse to Guts' Apostle Hunting days. But I'm keeping expectations in check. If it's a single film, I could see them combining aspects of the Snake Baron, the Count, and Rosine into a single narrative. But hey, that's pure speculation! :slan:

Aazealh said:
They're cute. :iva:

Indeed they are cute.
 

Chinmi

The best defense is a good offence!
http://www.berserkfilm.com/news/?p=546

Google translated as followed:

2 / 4 (Sat) to midnight, "The Golden Age Part Ⅰ Overlord eggs Berserk" public memorial?

Kazuki 観Se opening 10 minutes! Decide!

To celebrate the publication of this work, will premiere February 04 (Sat) 0:00 (24:00, February 03) from, GyaO a 10-minute video at the beginning of this story!, Limited time only at au the delivery?

The opening 10-minute video, as well as the confrontation scene with Guts Bazuso hero siege and the clash between the large and powerful army, Susumu Hirasawa's theme song with "Aria" also includes Berserk opening footage with . The opening image is a film of this year, "Hen" Golden Age after an episode of the trilogy, appeared in the original popular character appearing in the current series. "Berserk" world of visualizing all <Berserk Saga Project> has become a symbol of the video! !

"The Golden Age Part Ⅰ Overlord eggs Berserk" Ikki 観Se opening 10 minutes!
Delivery Period ■: February 04 (Saturday) 0:00 19 2 (Sun) 23:59 Limited Distribution
· GyaO! Movie "Berserk" → http://gyao.yahoo.co.jp/special/berserk/ published in Memorial Issue
Film · au "Berserk" campaign site in au
(Au mobile phone, smart phone in au, from auoneTOP "Berserk" search)

Watch free

From my understanding from this rough translation, I believe the first ten minutes of the Berserk film will be streamed between this February 3rd to 4th in Japan. Unfortunately, its restricted to Japan only. Damn! :sad:

Is there anybody with access in Japan who can capture this video and post it up on youtube when it hits? I'll be very grateful.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Chinmi said:
Is there anybody with access in Japan who can capture this video and post it up on youtube when it hits? I'll be very grateful.
There are ways around the geographic restriction. A proxy, for example.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
:ganishka: Still, I'll write that off as a work-in-progress moment. It is afterall from the next movie, not the one that's airing in theaters.
 
Agreed. What the hell. This CGI is worse than the PS2 game and is way too bright. From this 15 sec clip I prefer the original anime's 100 man fight. And that's saying something. I really hope this is a work in progress like the Zodd footage was.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Wow, is the second movie being animated in flash?
gutsbarf.gif


I'm not even talking about that still, but how horridly flat and monochrome the rest looked. Was that the hundred man fight? Seriously, forget comparisons to the manga, that footage is an insult to the legacy of the first film. :ganishka:
 
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