Author Topic: Berserk Saga Project News  (Read 783240 times)

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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1200 on: February 11, 2012, 12:22:45 AM »
Ugh, and here I was hoping that was just part of the test footage/pilot. Even if the sword looks the same as the one Guts' wields during the taking of Doldrey, I can't imagine them fundamentally changing the fight with Boscone. They've removed major parts of the story, and tweaked some of the parts they're leaving in, but for the studio to change the way that particular duel ends...man, I hope they're not that ignorant.

Offline RyoGTO

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1201 on: February 11, 2012, 12:28:35 AM »
I doubt they will change that fight, it is one of the most important moments between the Guts and Zodd character development.  Zodd has to be able to throw him a new sword.  My speculation has been that perhaps he is using a different sword during the fight, and this is the one he gets after.  Either that or they made this scene before considering that this sword had been broken already.

Offline Walter

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1202 on: February 11, 2012, 12:39:58 AM »
My speculation has been that perhaps he is using a different sword during the fight, and this is the one he gets after.  Either that or they made this scene before considering that this sword had been broken already.
Nah, it's the same sword he uses throughout the movie, after it jumps forward to the fight against the Black Rams. You can see it in a lot of promotional shots, as well as the trailer.

Offline Lord Leith

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1203 on: February 11, 2012, 12:54:52 AM »
I also doubt they will change the duel with Boscone, however I do wonder one thing.

If Guts gets another sword that looks exactly like the one which was broken, then wouldn't the scene where Casca holds up Guts broken sword to her cheek, be confusing to a general audience, at least if they leave out any details of him getting a new sword to avoid this confusion.

Offline Roderick

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1204 on: February 11, 2012, 01:10:11 AM »
Good news about the Black Swordsman Arc in the interview.  I know there is no guarantee that it will get made, but at least it has erased doubt that they would have jumped to the Retribution Arc by going in manga order had they been able to adapt more.

I doubt (or am in denial) that the Boscone fight will be altered for him to keep his giant sword.  Seeing him have it after its suppose to have gotten broken has me thinking Guts just "gets" another because the makers feel the public won't watch a Berserk movie unless Guts is always wielding a giant sword :carcus:.  Perhaps another reason why Guts' childhood was glossed over? :troll:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 01:48:39 AM by Roderick »

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1205 on: February 11, 2012, 01:42:52 AM »
Good news about the Black Swordsman Arc in the interview.  I know there is no guarantee that it will get made, but at least it has erased doubt that they would have jumped to the Retribution Arc by going in manga order had they been able to adapt more.

Regarding the Black Swordsman arc, this is actually the one place where I am looking forward to seeing a film adaptation done. Don't hate on me too much for having this opinion, but I think that arc is arguably the one that stands to be improved the most. IF Miura has any inklings of how he would have liked to do things differently in the series I wouldn't be surprised if some of them come from that arc.

I think it's been discussed here before, but to me it has always seemed out of character for Guts to have sex with that apostle. I think that with this arc, we have the biggest shot of seeing how Miura would like things to be done differently (what things I don't know) assuming Miura has any involvement with the project at all. <-- possibly a huge assumption.

I think some people view the addition of the mask + smaller sword during the Julius assassination scene in the first movie to be an 'improvement'. While I'm not sure I 100% agree with them I do hope that something like that would have first had to have been approved by Miura (perhaps it was even suggested by Miura? I don't think it's possible to know).

All of this to say that with this idea I am creating the possibility for new life and enchantment to be breathed into what is probably my least favorite arc of the entire series (At last I lay my cards on the table :void:)



Offline Saephon

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1206 on: February 11, 2012, 05:44:50 AM »
I think some people view the addition of the mask + smaller sword during the Julius assassination scene in the first movie to be an 'improvement'.

Really? Those people haven't really thought it through then. This has been discussed countless times on this board, but that whole scene is indicative of Guts' recklessness and unfamiliarity with an assassination job. As for the opening pages of the Black Swordsman Arc, not only was that during Guts' most, um, mentally unstable period, but I'm certain he would have done anything to kill off another apostle. She thought she was making Guts let his guard down; it was really the opposite.

I'm not trying to jump down your throat here, just pointing out that Berserk has been more nuanced than the average fan gives it credit for, even from the very beginning. Guts is NOT perfect; that's why he's grown as a character. Assuming Miura would want to go back and change or "improve" anything sounds a lot like George Lucas with Star Wars. And we all know how THAT turned out.  :slan:
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Offline Jaze1618

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1207 on: February 11, 2012, 06:25:45 AM »
that whole scene is indicative of Guts' recklessness and unfamiliarity with an assassination job

I believe I am familiar with both discussions.

My memory isn't 100% but I think the emphasis on 'improvement' was based around a perceived 'plot hole' that Guts was never caught for his recklessness, rather than the opinion that he shouldn't have been so reckless in the first place.  While again I wouldn't say I agree with them 100% ..I can only imagine that they were happy to see this resolved with Guts no longer being made to be so reckless rather than Guts instead being caught for his recklessness which would have really deviated from the original story

George Lucas with Star Wars.

Agreed. However while Guts would have perhaps done anything to kill off an apostle, I have a hard time imagining that sleeping with her was necessary to kill her.

In any case I hope it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that with Miura becoming a better artist over years and years of drawing, in the same vein he has become a better story teller after years and years of writing the plot.

The apostle sex is my personal nitpick of Guts character.  I don't think any of us would ask Miura to ever go back and redraw the early volumes of Berserk simply because they aren't of the same level of quality as his later work. Neither am I saying that I think he should go back and re-write the black swordsman arc just because I feel it is the weakest arc of the series. I do however welcome an animated adaption of that arc with great excitement.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 07:28:12 AM by Jaze1618 »

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1208 on: February 11, 2012, 07:16:29 AM »
Well Im not sure if and when they got the rights to air it. But it is on their official site of the convention so I think it is legit.
But it could be, that they just show the japanese bluray with subs.
If they did that on my country, which they won't, I'd definitely go watch it. I wonder how long will it be before it's streamed in the internet though. Probably till after the second movie airs.

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1209 on: February 11, 2012, 07:26:41 AM »
Not just that. The thing that worries me is that Boscone will come across as a pushover. There's some real tension in that battle when Guts loses his sword. He thinks it might be over, and then the tables are suddenly turned. I hope they're able to keep that same dynamic in the movie, if they do indeed NOT break his sword.
From what I saw from the first movie, I think they will make it a very intense scene.  :femto: but then again they may rush it since the first movie, and I assume the second, is/will be an hour long  :judo:
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Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1210 on: February 11, 2012, 07:28:04 AM »
From what I saw from the first movie, I think they will make it a very intense scene.  :femto: but then again they may rush it since the first movie, and I assume the second, is/will be an hour long  :judo:

The second is 100 minutes long, so 1 hr 40 minutes

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1211 on: February 11, 2012, 07:49:23 AM »
The second is 100 minutes long, so 1 hr 40 minutes
Welp those extra 40 minutes will really help out then! I expect the 2nd movie to be much better then!  :guts:
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Offline Handmade

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1212 on: February 11, 2012, 08:02:16 AM »
Agreed. However while Guts would have perhaps done anything to kill off an apostle, I have a hard time imagining that sleeping with her was necessary to kill her.


I am glad you voiced your opinion on this particular scene, Jaze. It got me thinking, that is for certain. I also wonder what the other board members' opinion is on this scene, but I believe they ultimately side in with the way it was done. Someone a few days ago praised the scene, and I agree, it is a shocking introduction to Berserk that doesn't pacify you in the slightest. I see two sides to this argument. I see the one, where this apostle has an illusion-casting ability that Guts may have partly succumbed to, and the other where Guts just murders things with little complication.

My opinion is not so similar to your own, but I can see where you are coming from. My conclusion to the scene is that Guts does what he has to-to win or defeat his enemy. With this apostle's succubus-like charm that seduced Carcus (even though he was running for his life), I can see that outcome arriving where it did.

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1213 on: February 11, 2012, 08:17:01 AM »
That scene is meant as an "in-your-face" approach to the main character and how he will do what needs to be done to extract his revenge. From then on you understand that since he doesn't really show a bit of remorse up until he has mutilated the Slug Count and his daughter is crying.

As for changing it if/when they get to that portion of the story.. who knows... regardless of what happens there is going to be some group that is going to bitch and moan about it so just relax and enjoy what ever comes out.  :badbone:
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Offline mazinken

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1214 on: February 11, 2012, 04:36:01 PM »
In the black sword man arc Guts having sex with the apostle was not for the purpose of enjoying himself. She seems to eat humans after having sex with them after they are helpless as they don't except to be eaten on this situation. So Guts wanted to her to take a taste of her own medicine by turning the table on her.

Like most of you know after the eclipse Guts was not in his best state of mind and he was obsessed with not only killing apostles but crushing them on both body and mind by using any mean to achieve his objective. For me every thing in the manga is perfect no need to alter or change anything in the story.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1215 on: February 11, 2012, 06:40:37 PM »
Regarding the Black Swordsman arc, this is actually the one place where I am looking forward to seeing a film adaptation done. Don't hate on me too much for having this opinion, but I think that arc is arguably the one that stands to be improved the most. IF Miura has any inklings of how he would have liked to do things differently in the series I wouldn't be surprised if some of them come from that arc.

A. I disagree completely. I think the Black Swordsman Arc is just as well thought out and illustrated as the rest of the manga.

B. Based on what we know of Miura, I doubt he would ask the studio to change anything in the films so that they differ from the manga. Quite the opposite, actually.

I think it's been discussed here before, but to me it has always seemed out of character for Guts to have sex with that apostle.

I disagree. The manga opens with Guts at his lowest point. He's willing to do anything in order to kill an apostle. I don't think it's out of character for him at all at this point in his life.

I think that with this arc, we have the biggest shot of seeing how Miura would like things to be done differently (what things I don't know) assuming Miura has any involvement with the project at all. <-- possibly a huge assumption.

As you said, this is a huge assumption, and I don't think it will come to fruition.

I think some people view the addition of the mask + smaller sword during the Julius assassination scene in the first movie to be an 'improvement'.

One or two members have made that their opinion, but I don't think it's valid one. I think Aazealh's argument about Guts wearing a mask and using a different sword being out of character is right on the money.

All of this to say that with this idea I am creating the possibility for new life and enchantment to be breathed into what is probably my least favorite arc of the entire series (At last I lay my cards on the table :void:)

You're creating the possibility? I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the Black Swordsman Arc as much as I did, but I don't think new life and enchantment need to be breathed into it. I think we should all be hoping that few changes occur in this adaptation of Berserk; we shouldn't be hoping for the opposite.

Offline Metatron

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1216 on: February 11, 2012, 08:24:06 PM »
I don't fully agree with any of the opinions expressed in this thread, but I think both sides have some valid reasons for the way they feel about the first arc and the assassination.

We don't have any official statement from Miura about his thoughts on the subject and the adaptation we're seeing, so we can only have assumptions from both sides. It's one of those things that we can only agree to disagree.

Btw, I think Guts not being recognized during the assassination and ensuing fight (and not even being a suspect later) is weird, but I like the Black Swordsman arc. :carcus:

And I also think it's entirely in the realm of possibily that Miura might dislike some of the things he did earlier or have different ideas on how to do it better now. It's been a long time, and that's almost a given with creative minds. He's probably the most critical of his work. I don't see much reason to argue about that. :troll:


About the Boscogne fight, they can't change it. I can't see it them doing anything really different with it, it would be... weird. I have no idea what will happen, but I just can't see them changing that part. At all. Maybe they're still unfinished stills. Like a hope some of the scenes from the last CM are.  :magni:

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1217 on: February 11, 2012, 08:51:28 PM »
My two cents.

In any case I hope it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that with Miura becoming a better artist over years and years of drawing, in the same vein he has become a better story teller after years and years of writing the plot.
A. I disagree completely. I think the Black Swordsman Arc is just as well thought out and illustrated as the rest of the manga.

I'm with Jaze on this.  Any artist and writer is going to grow and develop with time and experience and Miura has had over 25 years.  I think the growth in both writing and art style in Berserk is clearly apparent.  No question in my opinion.  This doesn't mean the Black Swordsman arc is bad, or that it doesn't hit great notes as far as story and structure.  It's still amazing on it's own, especially compared to other mangas and does a great job introducing characters, the dark fantasy tone, and the world of Berserk.  

But to say there's no way Miura would have done things a bit differently in the Black Swordsman arc, knowing where he's taken the story 25 years later?  He's done it before with the IoE episode.   And even by adding pages for volumes after Young Animal has already come out, such as Zodd's silhouette when the Moonlight Boy is introduced.  Unlikely, ...maybe.  But I don't think it's far fetched for him to approve tweaks to the way his earliest arc is told.   :schierke:

The apostle sex is my personal nitpick of Guts character.  

He wasn't exactly being a moral exemplar at this point in his life at all.  He'd abandoned Casca in pursuit of single minded revenge, and in fact downed his grief in rage.  He even admits this to himself when he returns to Godot's forge.  He wasn't thinking about fidelity to Casca.  He was a rage monster that would sink to any depth to quench his thirst for vengeance.  The german expression schadenfreude describes it well: the pleasure you receive from watching other suffer.  That's all he was about.  And that's what's so interesting about the Arc.  This is the good guy.   :guts:

One or two members have made that their opinion, but I don't think it's valid one. I think Aazealh's argument about Guts wearing a mask and using a different sword being out of character is right on the money.

Aazealh's point is well made about what it does to Guts characterization, but I think it ignores an important variable: Griffith.  This assassination was risky business and Griffith even mentions that there must be no witnesses.  If Guts were identified or caught, I'm pretty sure Griffith would be tied to it and executed for treason.  Or worse.  Keep in mind that both Guts were fairly famous after the battle with Zodd.  Guts even meets the King, Julius, and Charlotte accompanied with royal guards.  And Guts threatened Julius on that occasion.  And he had his characteristic raider sword in plain sight.  With even a little suspicion, he would have been a suspect.  I don't think it's unreasonable for a strategic man like Griffith to direct Guts to use a little discretion.  Sure it's revisionism, but at least it's not arbitrary like many other things in the film.  It has a logic behind the change.



Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1218 on: February 11, 2012, 08:52:02 PM »
We don't have any official statement from Miura about his thoughts on the subject and the adaptation we're seeing, so we can only have assumptions from both sides. It's one of those things that we can only agree to disagree.

Actually, Miura thanked the director a lot and Chica Umino said he was wearing a mysterious smile after watching the movie and he seemed as he was proud of what he created

Offline Slime_Beherit

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1219 on: February 11, 2012, 09:00:14 PM »
Actually, Miura thanked the director a lot and Chica Umino said he was wearing a mysterious smile after watching the movie and he seemed as he was proud of what he created

He just thought the movie was a joke that Chica Umino orchestrated  :troll:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1220 on: February 11, 2012, 09:35:07 PM »
Regarding the Black Swordsman arc, this is actually the one place where I am looking forward to seeing a film adaptation done. Don't hate on me too much for having this opinion, but I think that arc is arguably the one that stands to be improved the most.

I do hate you, and I don't think you can actually argue that it can be improved. On a side note, that discussion shouldn't be in this thread.

I think that with this arc, we have the biggest shot of seeing how Miura would like things to be done differently (what things I don't know) assuming Miura has any involvement with the project at all. <-- possibly a huge assumption.

That is indeed a huge assumption. Unless he explicitly gives details himself, we'll never know what role he played.

All of this to say that with this idea I am creating the possibility for new life and enchantment to be breathed into what is probably my least favorite arc of the entire series (At last I lay my cards on the table :void:)

Your lack of taste and discernment cannot be fixed by changing something that is perfectly fine to begin with.

My memory isn't 100% but I think the emphasis on 'improvement' was based around a perceived 'plot hole' that Guts was never caught for his recklessness, rather than the opinion that he shouldn't have been so reckless in the first place.  While again I wouldn't say I agree with them 100% ..I can only imagine that they were happy to see this resolved with Guts no longer being made to be so reckless rather than Guts instead being caught for his recklessness which would have really deviated from the original story

It's not a matter of Guts being reckless so much as him not being suited for the job. It doesn't fit his style nor his personality. He was as careful as he could be, and there wouldn't have been any problem had Adonis not surprised him (and seen his face). The entire scene and the reason it went bad is because Guts' face was not concealed. As I said when this was brought up, people ought to think a little more about what they're saying.

Agreed. However while Guts would have perhaps done anything to kill off an apostle, I have a hard time imagining that sleeping with her was necessary to kill her.

Quoting myself on the subject:

More than one really, but suffices to say that Guts was at his darkest hour. You can see it as a glimpse of the path he might have followed had he never met Puck. In a way, when you relate it to his hatred of being touched at that time (a return of the symptoms of his childhood trauma that Casca's love had cured in volume 9), it can be seen as being as self-destructive as his use of the Berserk's armor. An utter disregard for himself within his quest for revenge.

I think it can be seen as a pretty important and significative scene in the series. It establishes Guts at his worst, and he gets better from there. And he's never stopped getting better since. :slan:

In any case I hope it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that with Miura becoming a better artist over years and years of drawing, in the same vein he has become a better story teller after years and years of writing the plot.

The problem here is that I don't think that arc has any flaw. And most of the series relies on concepts and characters that this arc introduced, too. Seems to me that there's absolutely no ground to your argument other than the fact you don't like the series' introduction.

But to say there's no way Miura would have done things a bit differently in the Black Swordsman arc, knowing where he's taken the story 25 years later?  He's done it before with the IoE episode.   And even by adding pages for volumes after Young Animal has already come out, such as Zodd's silhouette when the Moonlight Boy is introduced.  Unlikely, ...maybe.  But I don't think it's far fetched for him to approve tweaks to the way his earliest arc is told.   :schierke:

Don't pretend to know more than you actually do. You think there were no alterations to the early parts of the story between their prepublication and the release of the volumes? There were actually more back then than there are nowadays. And Miura's decision to remove episode 83 from the story was taken shortly after having released it. As for him making changes to his earlier work, he's commented before that his previous artwork was sometimes painful for him to look at. And that doesn't just mean the first three volumes either, but everything he'd done at the time of that comment. What I told Jaze about the writing applies to you as well, though. I laugh (or is it snarl?) at the mere suggestion that the people responsible for the changes we've already seen in the first movie could "improve" anything whatsoever in Berserk.

Aazealh's point is well made about what it does to Guts characterization, but I think it ignores an important variable: Griffith.

You think wrong. I addressed that when it was mentioned.

This assassination was risky business and Griffith even mentions that there must be no witnesses.  If Guts were identified or caught, I'm pretty sure Griffith would be tied to it and executed for treason.

Yes, it was very risky. It was actually incredibly reckless of Griffith to plot this assassination in the first place. Which is also why he asked Guts to do it: by far the most resourceful and unquestioningly loyal man he had. Had anyone else been sent to do the deed and it would have likely backfired. Guts did what had to be done so that it would work. And he did it with the proper tool he needed for the job: his sword. A sword that coupled with his strength and skill allowed him to do things no other man could.

Keep in mind that both Guts were fairly famous after the battle with Zodd.  Guts even meets the King, Julius, and Charlotte accompanied with royal guards.  And Guts threatened Julius on that occasion.  And he had his characteristic raider sword in plain sight.  With even a little suspicion, he would have been a suspect.  I don't think it's unreasonable for a strategic man like Griffith to direct Guts to use a little discretion.  Sure it's revisionism, but at least it's not arbitrary like many other things in the film.  It has a logic behind the change.

No, Guts wasn't "fairly famous" then (I already told you that, and he also didn't "threaten" Julius). He was just a soldier in the Band of the Falcon to these guys. Which is obviously all Julius could remember when he saw him. Not a name or anything, just that he worked for Griffith. And that's perfectly normal. People only started looking at Griffith's men after he himself became more prominent. And in the scenes we're shown of Guts' escape, his face is well concealed by the hood he wears. Given that it was night and that he killed any guard who came too close, the only thing that could have given him away was his sword. And again, it was night, it all went pretty fast and so on. So the sword could have been a clue, but who says absolutely no one else used a bigger than average sword in the city? And really, it's not like investigation techniques were refined (or even existed at all) in Wyndham then.

That being said, you seem to be overlooking one very important detail: in the end, influential people knew Griffith was responsible for it. Foss was sure of it right from the beginning, and he even tested Griffith directly shortly afterwards. Which is why the group of nobles led by the queen eventually tried to kill him. So really, identifying the assassin himself was of little importance. You know, it's not so different from how things are in the real world. Griffith had become influential at the time, and without Julius, he and his army were Midland's best asset against Tudor. It's not like maneuvering against him would have been easy, even with a couple of testimonies from guards that "the mysterious assassin used a big sword".

Actually, Miura thanked the director a lot and Chica Umino said he was wearing a mysterious smile after watching the movie and he seemed as he was proud of what he created

To be proud of seeing his work made into a movie doesn't mean he approves of specific alterations made to the story, or that he thinks they are superior to his own original work. That's definitely not the kind of state of mind he's displayed before (taking the PS2 game as an example, about which he expressly said it was for fun and not to be taken seriously).

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1221 on: February 12, 2012, 12:57:53 AM »
Don't pretend to know more than you actually do.

I don't think I was.  I was just trying to make a point based on what precedence I do know of Miura's own revisions.  You've been here for 10 years and have almost 15,000 posts, so obviously you're going to be the expert.  I can't be expected to have read 100,000+ posts.  But nor am I just making assertions without backing them up with evidence.

You think there were no alterations to the early parts of the story between their prepublication and the release of the volumes? There were actually more back then than there are nowadays.

I didn't know this and I've been coming to these forums since 2008.  I'd love to find out what he changed.  Can you point me in the right direction with either a link or topic name?  The best I've found is this, http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9369.0 and it's not that helpful.

As for him making changes to his earlier work, he's commented before that his previous artwork was sometimes painful for him to look at. And that doesn't just mean the first three volumes either, but everything he'd done at the time of that comment. What I told Jaze about the writing applies to you as well, though. I laugh (or is it snarl?) at the mere suggestion that the people responsible for the changes we've already seen in the first movie could "improve" anything whatsoever in Berserk.

Just to be clear, do you snarl at the idea that any change could improve the story?  Or just to the idea that these particular film makers have enough sense to improve it?

You think wrong. I addressed that when it was mentioned.

You're right, I just saw it.  My original post got swallowed up in news for a new trailer and I must have missed your reply in all the traffic.  And it was quite a thorough and thoughtful reply.  Mea culpa.  :farnese:

I take issue with only two of your arguments:

I already told you that, and he also didn't "threaten" Julius.

After Julius slaps Griffith he shouts "Hey pal!" and steps forward with sword in hand.  Julius's reaction?  He grabs his own sword.  Griffith has to stop Guts.  From a commoner to royalty, I'd think this would be considered threatening and would raise an eyebrow of guards even if they didn't recognize him as one of the sole survivors from the battle with Zodd.  

And while you're correct to point out that in the scene with the King on the steps Guts is barely acknowledged, we also know that the battle with Zodd was at least famous enough to be a private joke among some nobles because of its suggestion of the supernatural.  We can only speculate at what everyone else thought of the rumored battle with a monster, but the King didn't seem to sneer at it.  Instead he held Griffith in especially high regard immediately after.

So the sword could have been a clue, but who says absolutely no one else used a bigger than average sword in the city?

This isn't an argument.  We have never seen evidence of anyone with a sword that even remotely resembles Guts sword in size.  Sure we can't prove that they don't exist, but that's a logic that can justify all sorts of ridiculous theories.  What we do know, is that it's unique enough to be commented on in awe on several occasions by fellow soldiers. If swords the size of their owner were common, would they be whispered about by seasoned soldiers?

And really, it's not like investigation techniques were refined (or even existed at all) in Wyndham then.

Very true.

That being said, you seem to be overlooking one very important detail: in the end, influential people knew Griffith was responsible for it. Foss was sure of it right from the beginning, and he even tested Griffith directly shortly afterwards. Which is why the group of nobles led by the queen eventually tried to kill him. So really, identifying the assassin himself was of little importance. You know, it's not so different from how things are in the real world. Griffith had become influential at the time, and without Julius, he and his army were Midland's best asset against Tudor. It's not like maneuvering against him would have been easy, even with a couple of testimonies from guards that "the mysterious assassin used a big sword".

An excellent point.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 01:24:42 AM by ApostleBob »

Offline Roderick

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1222 on: February 12, 2012, 02:51:23 AM »
To be proud of seeing his work made into a movie doesn't mean he approves of specific alterations made to the story, or that he thinks they are superior to his own original work. That's definitely not the kind of state of mind he's displayed before (taking the PS2 game as an example, about which he expressly said it was for fun and not to be taken seriously).

I have to agree it is odd, to say the least, to perceive the changes made in the movie as "improvements" Miura personally supported, much less had a hand in.  I have my doubts he's involved in the adaptation much at all aside from giving the producers the green light.

As for what, if anything, he would change in the Black Swordsman Arc is pretty much guesswork.  Hell, if the anime team started the Black Swordsman Arc with Guts giving the sex-apostle the bait and switch, I would be most impressed.  I understand that adaptations, especially film adaptations, generally lead to alterations or extra material but they should try to be as close to the source material as they can.  I anyone decides material should be cut or "fixed," I doubt the one deciding is Miura :miura:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1223 on: February 12, 2012, 10:02:22 AM »
I didn't know this and I've been coming to these forums since 2008.  I'd love to find out what he changed.  Can you point me in the right direction with either a link or topic name?  The best I've found is this, http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9369.0 and it's not that helpful.

It's fine that you didn't know. I didn't expect you to. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be too presumptuous when it comes to what was or wasn't done and what would or wouldn't be done, especially when citing examples that aren't very pertinent (changing something in-between the prepublication and release of the volume compared to altering the story 25 years later). And unfortunately I don't think we have a single thread referencing every such occurrence. There's been talk of creating one before, but it'd be quite a bit of work and so I haven't taken the time to do it. Furthermore, I unfortunately don't possess every issue of YA, so said thread wouldn't be exhaustive. I can tell you though that Miura still frequently touched up the artwork (and sometimes modified lines of dialogue) even during the Golden Age arc and that he changed the way the first episodes were subdivided. He's also added and removed pages quite a few times during the series' history (e.g. volumes 20 & 26). I don't want to steer this thread more off-topic than it already is, but I promise you I'll post on the subject in more detail one of these days.

After Julius slaps Griffith he shouts "Hey pal!" and steps forward with sword in hand.  Julius's reaction?  He grabs his own sword.  Griffith has to stop Guts.  From a commoner to royalty, I'd think this would be considered threatening and would raise an eyebrow of guards even if they didn't recognize him as one of the sole survivors from the battle with Zodd.

Guts actually calls Julius "ossan", which would be more like "old man" in English (specifically, it's used to refer to a middle-aged man). It's pretty funny because from a commoner to a noble it's incredibly rude (typical of Guts' way of speaking). If you look at the panel, sure Julius grabs his sword, but I don't find Guts' stance to be particularly threatening. He's just stepping in because Julius hit Griffith in the face. It lasts 3 panels and is immediately over after Griffith stops Guts. As for the guards, none of them even stayed behind during that scene. They're all down the stairs with the king, so no eyebrows raised there as far as we can tell. Even the king himself didn't seem to notice anything. As for the battle with Zodd, who's to say everybody knows in detail which member of the Band of the Falcon was there and survived the battle or not? Because the two losers who made fun of Guts right after the battle knew who he was and tried to tease him about it because he was wounded doesn't mean the high nobility is keeping tabs on who's who. In fact I'm pretty sure the only reason Julius could remember who Guts was when he killed him is because of this particular encounter in the stairs (and maybe his presence during the hunting party).

This isn't an argument.  We have never seen evidence of anyone with a sword that even remotely resembles Guts sword in size.  Sure we can't prove that they don't exist, but that's a logic that can justify all sorts of ridiculous theories.  What we do know, is that it's unique enough to be commented on in awe on several occasions by fellow soldiers. If swords the size of their owner were common, would they be whispered about by seasoned soldiers?

Valancia had a relatively big sword. Zodd also uses big swords. There's a precedent in the world for it. It doesn't have to be a sword as big as Guts', or as long or anything. Just bigger than average. We've seen swords of various sizes, so if the only clue had been "his sword was pretty big" (which is about as precise and reliable as any such testimony could be), we can't assert for sure that it would point directly to Guts and Guts only among every warrior in Midland and Tudor. Especially since for someone not aware of the ongoing castle intrigues it wouldn't make any sense for a soldier in one of the kingdom's armies to do that.

Regardless, to try to get back to the actual movie, if this was such a big deal for whoever it is that decided it had to be changed, they could have solved the problem by simply having Guts kill every single guard that could have identified him. Would have both made for a cooler battle scene and been closer to the original scene.

Offline StarKodama

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #1224 on: February 12, 2012, 10:06:41 AM »
Hi all! I'm new here and I saw the movie for the second time last night. (Sorry to rub it in...) I live in Yokohama, Japan.

I LOVED IT! The music and the sound effects especially are so well-done. It's a cool way to see the story and it's WAY better than the anime series, imo. The scene with Zodd and the assassination scene in particular were suitably epic. All in all, it was awesome.

Things I didn't like...

-- Guts' face not resembling Guts in any way. His ears aren't even pointy!
-- A lot of people are complaining about the CG. It's jarring at first, but you get used to it after a while and then it looks cool. Still, some of the big battle scenes suffer from slowdown like you'd see in a PS1 game.
-- The pop song tacked on at the end that has nothing to do with the movie. After the credits are over they play that Ai song and slowly scroll a list of a billion weird usernames. It's boring and feels like an artificial attempt to extend the length of the movie.  :mozgus:

Those are just minor nitpicks, really. I thought the movie was very well done and I can't wait for the rest!

What's troubling, however, is that I don't think the movie is doing well in Japan. I haven't seen any mention of it at all on TV. I went to see it on the 4th and on the 11th, both Saturdays, and there were only like 10 people in the theatre including my husband and I.  :isidro: Hopefully it'll do better overseas...