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hellrasinbrasin

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The consequence of getting creative with a limited budget. Maybe the 2nd Berserk Arc will have a bigger purse as production goes.
 
As much as having anything cut just plain old sucks, can the plot still not hold together fine without the assassination/Foss? Obviously the assassination is important as far as developing Griffith and his conquering of the kingdom but I mean...I believe it is possible to work around it somehow (I still hope it's included mind you) and there are many other instances in this section that develop Griffiths character in a similar fashion. Again not saying I like it, but if something had to be cut due to time constraints.....

I mean, could they not just have any other random villager take Foss's place later on when he appears? Shit sucks but, it's not plot destroying.
 

Walter

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Staff member
Draculoid said:
As much as having anything cut just plain old sucks, can the plot still not hold together fine without the assassination/Foss? Obviously the assassination is important as far as developing Griffith and his conquering of the kingdom but I mean...I believe it is possible to work around it somehow (I still hope it's included mind you) and there are many other instances in this section that develop Griffiths character in a similar fashion. Again not saying I like it, but if something had to be cut due to time constraints.....

I mean, could they not just have any other random villager take Foss's place later on when he appears? Shit sucks but, it's not plot destroying.
Let's put this in perspective--we don't yet know that they're cutting the entire conspirator plot. There's just no evidence yet, in promotional materials or the trailer itself, that these scenes are in the movie. But, if they were to cut it, however, it would be missing out on a key scene in Griffith's development, particularly in relationship to Guts. Remember, after the queen was burned, Griffith asks Guts if this makes him cruel. Guts reassures him that this is the path he set out on.

If the bath scene is missing, where Griffith outlines his dream to Guts, and then THIS scene goes missing, in which Guts reassures Griffith in an ethically vulnerable moment... that's a substantial portion of their emotional development as characters that's been washed away in favor of running time. I'm not sure the sacrifice scenes will have as much impact on the audience without these key moments.
 
Walter said:
Let's put this in perspective--we don't yet know that they're cutting the entire conspirator plot. There's just no evidence yet, in promotional materials or the trailer itself, that these scenes are in the movie. But, if they were to cut it, however, it would be missing out on a key scene in Griffith's development, particularly in relationship to Guts. Remember, after the queen was burned, Griffith asks Guts if this makes him cruel. Guts reassures him that this is the path he set out on.

If the bath scene is missing, where Griffith outlines his dream to Guts, and then THIS scene goes missing, in which Guts reassures Griffith in an ethically vulnerable moment... that's a substantial portion of their emotional development as characters that's been washed away in favor of running time. I'm not sure the sacrifice scenes will have as much impact on the audience without these key moments.

Agree a lot on this. They shouldn't have removed the bath scene, it was something essential to character development, and so is the assassination. I'm gonna watch the movies with my cousin who doesn't watch anime or read manga, but I will have to explain these 2 things to him.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Draculoid said:
As much as having anything cut just plain old sucks, can the plot still not hold together fine without the assassination/Foss?

Those omissions would have problematic repercussions later on. The deaths of prominent nobles as well as that of the queen played a role in Midland's deterioration after Griffith's fall from grace. The king's madness might not have had as much of an impact had they been alive. As for Foss, he is a key player in Midland politics and still has a role to play in the future. And of course, those events are very important for Griffith's character development. They establish who he is and what he's capable of to get what he wants. Guts & Griffith's relationship is also shaped by it in more ways than one. Removing all of this lessens the story.

If Foss is indeed not in the first movie, that means the scene in which he suggests to Julius that he attempts to kill Griffith during the hunting party was removed. I guess they could always try to feature it as a flashback in the second movie, if it starts with Griffith meeting Foss in the aftermath of Julius & Adonis' deaths. Would make for some sort of reveal that Foss was "behind" it, and paint him as more of a mastermind than he perhaps is.

Draculoid said:
I mean, could they not just have any other random villager take Foss's place later on when he appears? Shit sucks but, it's not plot destroying.

A "random villager" couldn't really do that, no. But that's not even the point. Foss perfectly fits the role, so there's no reason for it to change. As for not being "plot destroying", same goes for the Black Swordsman arc, Guts' childhood and so on, right? Well I think it does damage the plot and lowers its quality, especially when added to all the other omissions.
 
It seems that the more we discover about this so called "faithful" representation of the manga, the more the old anime seems to be not so bad with the omissions it made. I'm hoping that beyond the eclipse that they really serialise everything from the manga and keep it as faithful as they initially promised, presuming they won't have as many budget or time constraints to tell the story. Then all that needs to happen is, someone can take scenes from the new and old anime, splice them together to get it as faithful to the anime as possible and we'll nearly have the anime we always wanted (I'm not dropping any hints to Griffith here, I know he painstakingly went through the Recut, I doubt he wants to go through that again any time soon :schnoz:)
 
Walter said:
As I feared...

You guys that saw the movie have really been holding out on the changes :carcus: I demand a full report! :azan:

Yes sir!! :isidro: But honestly, I can't think of anything else that hasn't been mentioned here. The scene with Griffith and Guts splashing water around is missing, and there was no mention whatsoever of Foss and the queen. Julius decides to kill Griffith entirely of his own volition. Other than that, it was pretty faithful, I think.

BUT I still think the assassination plot will be in the second movie, because in the preview for the second movie shown at the end of the first movie, I seem to remember a little shot of Griffith on the ground, looking up at a burning castle. :femto:
 
StarKodama said:
BUT I still think the assassination plot will be in the second movie, because in the preview for the second movie shown at the end of the first movie, I seem to remember a little shot of Griffith on the ground, looking up at a burning castle. :femto:

the one at 1:14 in the new trailer ? You might be right!
At first glance I would say that is the scene where Griffith is talking to Charlotte at the fountain in the movie 1 - but we all know this is a trailer for movie 2, so :carcus:
 
Yeah, I do realize it's all about the impact and development that will be omitted if things are cut, I'm just trying to look on the bright side I guess (though there really isn't one as far as things being cut). The bath sequence being cut is just plain ridiculous, I'm sorry. If anything that scene being cut makes me more upset than the Foss dilemma (though I realize both are extremely important.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
StarKodama said:
Yes sir!! :isidro: But honestly, I can't think of anything else that hasn't been mentioned here. The scene with Griffith and Guts splashing water around is missing, and there was no mention whatsoever of Foss and the queen. Julius decides to kill Griffith entirely of his own volition. Other than that, it was pretty faithful, I think.

BUT I still think the assassination plot will be in the second movie, because in the preview for the second movie shown at the end of the first movie, I seem to remember a little shot of Griffith on the ground, looking up at a burning castle. :femto:
Thanks for the update. More questions are springing to to mind though... So, if the bath scene is missing, then how is the Beherit introduced in the story? That scene was where Griffith told Guts where he got it, what the significance of it is, and it also opens its eye at Guts for a moment. Does that happen in the movie?
 
Walter said:
So, if the bath scene is missing, then how is the Beherit introduced in the story? That scene was where Griffith told Guts where he got it, what the significance of it is, and it also opens its eye at Guts for a moment. Does that happen in the movie?

If memory serves, the Beherit doesn't appear until the scene with Zodd. Then it appears in the scene where Griffith and Guts are talking, before Griffith first meets Charlotte and gets slapped by Julius. Guts asks Griffith where he got it and it shows a tiny flashback of Griffith as a child, receiving the Beherit from the old lady. Then the Beherit opens an eye and Guts freaks out. It appears one more time when it saves Griffith from being pierced by Julius' arrow. :griffnotevil:
 
StarKodama said:
Yes sir!! :isidro: But honestly, I can't think of anything else that hasn't been mentioned here. The scene with Griffith and Guts splashing water around is missing, and there was no mention whatsoever of Foss and the queen. Julius decides to kill Griffith entirely of his own volition. Other than that, it was pretty faithful, I think.

BUT I still think the assassination plot will be in the second movie, because in the preview for the second movie shown at the end of the first movie, I seem to remember a little shot of Griffith on the ground, looking up at a burning castle. :femto:

Considering what you said it's unlikely that Foss will appear in the second movie. Hell he won't appear at all I guess. I wonder why they didn't include him in cuz he plays a viral part in the story in the golden age arc which help later on with his late appearances. I think only the queen will plot the poisoning of griffith.
 
You mentioned it in the podcast Walter so I'm quoting you here, but honestly, with these cuts "what's the point?!". It was supposed to be a fully faithful adaptation of the manga, I don't obviously need it to be panel for panel, but you have to start questioning their claim to "faithfulness" after a certain point.

After accepting the starting point of the series, the bath scene and Foss are the two things I'll already be telling all the friends I'm watching it with "Oh man it was so much better in the manga though, this, this and this happened!". That is exactly what these movies were supposed to avoid, listening to your discussion on the podcast it's actually pretty funny how many things the "not-so-faithful" t.v. anime got right.
 
SuperVegetto said:
Didn't you bother clicking to that link?

Yeah, sorry about that. I wasn't... in the greatest state of mind. I'll be more careful. :puck:

This makes me wonder. Will they recycle the first movie's soundtrack? I think they would use the new one in the trailer... Who knows...

I'm more disapointed about the lack of the "bath scene" (such an important moment) and now I'm also worried about Foss and the assassination plot. I doubt they will leave that behind, but who knows what changes they have made. I'll do an experiment with a friend of mine who never read Berserk (or manga for that matter) and watch the trilogy with him. Want to see his reaction and thoughts. It'll be good to have different points of view, a biased (manga fan) and an un-biased (mere mortal :guts:).
 
Draculoid said:
You mentioned it in the podcast Walter so I'm quoting you here, but honestly, with these cuts "what's the point?!". It was supposed to fully faithful adaptation of the manga, I don't obviously need it to be panel for panel, but you have to start questioning their claim to "faithfulness" after a certain point.

I'm with y'all, and am disappointed that various scenes were cut out. But, to me, the point is that this film trilogy + whatever ova/tv/film comes afterwards is an alternative way to enjoy Berserk. It's a supplement. And to the casual people / anime fans who watch it, it might be the greatest thing on earth. We here on this forum, are the hardcore Berserk fans. We read the manga, we've seen the '97 anime, we discuss the episodes on a forum, we draw fan-art, we make Berserk quizes, we commission life size Skullknight costumes (I'm looking at you Incantation). And it's all because of the masterpiece manga.

But with many of the things that I love, I always try to get my friends interested in it as well. I've must've gotten at least several dozen people to watch the '97 anime first hand. And I've tried just as hard to get people to read the manga but I've probably convinced only two dozen people to read it first hand. That's no surprise I'm sure. What I'm saying is, yeah, the film trilogy is not going to be perfect. But it's still gonna be fun as hell for me to watch, for my friends and I to watch together, and for me to just relive some of the greater Berserk moments in motion, sound, and music. And judging from the 2 people on the boards that have seen it, they seem to feel overall quite positive about the film too, despite the shortcomings, which I think is an important thing to keep in mind as well.
 
That's exactly how I feel DirectDK. And I never got excited in my whole life like I'm now for this trilogy. It's just that I'm kinda curious about those cuts, that's all. I'm pretty sure that I will enjoy the shit out of this trilogy :guts:
 
DirectDK said:
And judging from the 2 people on the boards that have seen it, they seem to feel overall quite positive about the film too, despite the shortcomings, which I think is an important thing to keep in mind as well.

Reviews in general have been particularly positive, it has to be said. Regardless of it's cut backs, it's likely I will enjoy the trilogy (heck, I watch the trailers and short clips every day, just to get a taster before the Blu Ray and I'm listening to the soundtrack regularly) but this doesn't prevent concern from the series narrating itself into a potential dead end like before, it also doesn't seem to make me feel overly confident that the rest of the series will see the treatment the more committed fans would like to see.

I'm in no way as observant as some of the more veteran members on this board who can tell me that Guts has never had nipples or inform me of other little details and quotes when I may have missed the mark, these kind of things I can overlook. But cutting out segments of the story that are major plot devices and work to develop characters to give them added depth is such a frustration to anyone who enjoys the manga. I think, the only reason I'm letting this slide and not turning my back on it, is because I've enjoyed seeing Berserk with a fresh animation and having seen the Golden Age animated before, I just want to see Skull Knight being introduced (along with Silat and Wyald) to an existing animated arc. However, if they continue this trend for the rest of the manga, I'm likely to be more annoyed, since it's unnecessary to make these cut backs when you have original intentions to make it a "faithful" adaptation to the existing material.

Nothing animated is ever going to be perfect and for those who have not been introduced to the manga prior to watching the new anime, it's going to be a case of ignorance is bliss (much like the 97 series) and there will be many people who will be unaware of how much is missing because they're convinced the anime is the pinnacle. Like I've said before, I'm just hoping that these cuts are due to time constraints for the three films, to build public interest and rake in cash to inject into the budget for the rest of the series, which will be animated far more accurately and with less "Let's cut this out here and squeeze this in here" mentality that's been taken so far...I hope [/rant] :mozgus:
 
As long as Miura is alright with it, I'm sure we have nothing to worry about. With Miura approving of all the changes, there's no way they can hit a dead end in terms of the plot.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
berserkfan said:
As long as Miura is alright with it, I'm sure we have nothing to worry about. With Miura approving of all the changes, there's no way they can hit a dead end in terms of the plot.
Your head is in the sand.
 
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