Berserk Saga Project News

Walter · January 31, 2013

Sammoniac said:
An adaptation without Guts and Casca dancing? Such a blasphemous travesty!

I can't remember, doesn't that happen in the manga? :void:

JezzaX · January 31, 2013

Right, another 15 years of waiting for a faithful adaptation it is....ho hum.

Sammoniac · January 31, 2013

Walter said:
I can't remember, doesn't that happen in the manga?

There is a Berserk manga?!?!

Walter · January 31, 2013

JezzaX said:
Right, another 15 years of waiting for a faithful adaptation it is....ho hum.

I've never quite understood this approach. 15 years of waiting? Was anyone seriously drooling with anticipation all this time over a potential adaptation of a series that's pretty fucking amazing by itself? I think the most anyone could have hoped for with these things was: "Hey that was kinda neat and didn't offend me horribly."

RaffoBaffo · January 31, 2013

Sooooo, if those are all the cuts this mean, theoretically, that the story of Gaiseric is in the movie....i like this (at least this)

Walter · January 31, 2013

RaffoBaffo said:
Sooooo, if those are all the cuts this mean, theoretically, that the story of Gaiseric is in the movie....i like this (at least this)

Hahaha, yeah you know, you're right. The Gaiseric/tower history scene isn't mentioned at all in either the review part of the cut part. An oversight... Or...? :ganishka:

More likely, it's just not a comprehensive list of cuts. The thing looks hastily written, to me. If we can actually convince Aaz to watch Movie III once it's out, he may oblige us with a more dense comparison.

JezzaX · January 31, 2013

Walter said:
I've never quite understood this approach. 15 years of waiting? Was anyone seriously drooling with anticipation all this time over a potential adaptation of a series that's pretty fucking amazing by itself? I think the most anyone could have hoped for with these things was: "Hey that was kinda neat and didn't offend me horribly."

I think it's safe to say that they are many people who would like to see Berserk given the attention it deserves in animated format and I'm not ashamed to say that I'm one of those people, since the original 97 series was pretty much how I was first introduced to Berserk. When I finally got round to reading the manga, I kept thinking "Ah, how awesome would it have been to see that part animated correctly". Whilst I am happy with the manga, I'm still keen to have a good representation of the series to put on my TV screen once in a while, much like I've been doing with Batman Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. But for Berserk, I think I will be going back to the 97 series any time I want an animated fix

Devilwoman · January 31, 2013

I just don't see the point of this adaptation anymore . Whether it's faithful or not, I feel it wasn't needed. Maybe if they decided to do a series based on what happens after the eclipse, it would have been worth watching .And in the end the final product is so different from the manga and the TV series that I feel like it's an entirely different series that tries to be like Berserk, but fails miserably.
All that I can say is I can't wait for this whole thing to be over.It's a nightmare.

tama chan · January 31, 2013

Thats a shame if all of that is accurate Walter. I always thought Judo's conversation with Casca and his last scenes were important to the eclipse.

Rodrigo · February 1, 2013

Never in recent memory have I seen an anime adaptation of a manga playing this fast and loose with original source material. To any fan boy/girl apologists who, even after all of this, keep praising the alleged merits of this Studio 4℃'s garbage of an adaptation or who tell us about the need to accept it for "what it's worth" - I say it ain't even worth a pint of piss. And I mean neither as an adaptation of an existing work, nor as a stand-alone work of fiction existing within its own separate fictional universe ("it is what it is", as this trilogy's ardent defenders so enthusiastically proclaim). As for the Studio 4℃, at this point all I can hope for them is that the collective disappointment and the hurt that they had dished out upon the long-time loyal fans' hearts will result (in the long run) for them hurting in their pockets and bank accounts, if you catch my drift ;)
As Aazealh had stated, even though we haven't had the exact estimates of the movies' financial earnings, this Berserk project has been anything but a smashing success that Eiko Tanaka and Co. might have hoped it'd be.

Gobolatula · February 1, 2013

This has been a disappointing and sad experience. Thinking of what could have been done with the skill set of these guys just makes me want to cry. Then I remember we still have the manga.

Walter · February 1, 2013

Gobolatula said:
This has been a disappointing and sad experience. Thinking of what could have been done with the skill set of these guys just makes me want to cry. Then I remember we still have the manga.

I don't think it had to be this way. Studio 4C had an opportunity to make something special. They just took the wrong approach from the very beginning... And then on every single major decision afterward.

We've talked on the podcast before about what could have been done to right this ship before it went wrong. But there isn't a simple fix. It's the overall approach the studio took, as Herbert said, in playing fast and loose with a delicate story to try and cram it into three neat, feature-length packages. At some point in the planning stage, someone really should have raised their hand and pointed out the failures inherent in the design of this adaptation. "Sir, if we cut this... and this... and... this... then who are these characters? Who are we left with?" Even if the knowledge that their vessel was plague-infested struck them later in the process, I'm sure the logic was, "Well, it'll probably still make a few bucks, right?"

What we're left with is a trilogy that fails to achieve emotional resonance with its characters when it counts, because they never invested the time or effort into actually developing them in meaningful ways. Instead, they took shortcuts around these moments to flesh out the base plot, in what I can only imagine was a desperate hope that a skeleton could live without its organs (Pay no mind to the Skull Knight for the duration of this analogy!). The movies are sprawling when they should be focused. When they do slow down and focus, say for the big duel in movie 2, it feels weak and hollow because the characters aren't fully formed. We don't know them. We don't feel their conflict or strife, because it's not earned. They're merely executing a sequence of motions, like automatons.

I bring up all of this exhausting bitterness to say that I think it was the choice of the Golden Age that truly sank this ship before it left port. It's a complicated part of the story, and as I said before—delicate, because it's laying the foundation for these characters. Several smaller stories all building to one large one (hey, like a Bonfire!) But, what it they had taken a more focused story—like the Black Swordsman Arc—and spent 2-3 movies on that instead? It could have told a tight narrative without having to involve itself in the messy business of gutting character origins in an offering to the God of Film Runtime. And say what you will about the art in those days, but the atmosphere in the earliest parts of the manga is truly unique. There was an opportunity here for something quite special on the big screen.

I believe Griff was the first to say it, but structurally the Black Swordsman Arc already sort of feels like a movie. It's Guts on a single mission. We see him falter, succeed and then end up out of his league, in a situation he wasn't expecting—directly confronting his nemesis—all while introducing readers to a larger, darker world. It's a pretty amazing story, almost hand-delivered for screen adaptation.

So, why couldn't they have animated that instead, exactly? The Golden Age is a rallying point for fans of the series, you say? Well, gather 'round turd mountain, folks! It's here to stay!

TelegramSam · February 1, 2013

I believe Griff was the first to say it, but structurally the Black Swordsman Arc already sort of feels like a movie. It's Guts on a single mission. And we see him falter, succeed and then end up in a place he never expected, confronting his nemesis and introducing us to a larger, darker world. It's a pretty amazing story, almost hand-delivered for screen adaptation.

Not to get off topic, but for what it's worth I remember Griffith floating that idea circa maybe 2001. And he's STILL right, damn it. :judo:

At this point, I think the best hope is that for some insane reason the movies make money despite the quality, and we get 3 follow up Black Swordsman movies. I'm willing to bet we'll see that right after we get an English release for the PS2 game, unfortunately... When you really think about it though, the last good Berserk adaptation was the Dreamcast game, and that's pretty depressing.

Grail · February 1, 2013

TelegramSam said:
When you really think about it though, the last good Berserk adaptation was the Dreamcast game, and that's pretty depressing.

That's a good point. If somebody hires Miura to write the next Berserk movie, I think we'll be okay. :casca:

tama chan · February 1, 2013

I still wonder if there is this mentality of how the Black Swordsman arc would be too confusing to movie goers. We all know it's not hard to follow and that the few things we arent sure of (how this Guts character is in the state he is in, the child) adds to the mystery. I get this feeling that they think it wouldn't be easy to digest for the people they are trying to sell tickets to.

Roderick · February 1, 2013

Walter said:
I believe Griff was the first to say it, but structurally the Black Swordsman Arc already sort of feels like a movie. It's Guts on a single mission. And we see him falter, succeed and then end up out of his league, in a place he never expected to be, directly confronting his nemesis and introducing readers to a larger, darker world. It's a pretty amazing story, almost hand-delivered for screen adaptation.

So I guess the forthcoming speculation will be if we're actually going to see the Black Swordsman Arc done now that this Golden Age trilogy is going to be over and done with in the coming weeks. And what the chances are it will be good :schnoz:

tama chan said:
I still wonder if there is this mentality of how the Black Swordsman arc would be too confusing to movie goers. We all know it's not hard to follow and that the few things we arent sure of (how this Guts character is in the state he is in, the child) adds to the mystery. I get this feeling that they think it wouldn't be easy to digest for the people they are trying to sell tickets to.

If a Black Swordsman film is going to happen next, they'll probably do one of those pandering "recap" opening sequences that was included in Movie 2 or at least something to that effect reminding viewers what happened during the Golden Age arc and thus erasing much of the mystique Guts had during that arc.

Walter · February 1, 2013

tama chan said:
I still wonder if there is this mentality of how the Black Swordsman arc would be too confusing to movie goers. We all know it's not hard to follow and that the few things we arent sure of (how this Guts character is in the state he is in, the child) adds to the mystery. I get this feeling that they think it wouldn't be easy to digest for the people they are trying to sell tickets to.

I don't think that's a convincing argument, really. Movie goers aren't all morons. It's almost status quo for an antihero to have a sordid past, of which only scant details are known at the outset. I can't imagine that'd be a difficult pill for modern audiences to swallow.

Anyway, one could just as easily argue that audiences new to this adaptation could be put off by the introduction of the God Hand, branding and sacrificial concepts in the final act of the trilogy. Where in the manga, readers are expected to already have that context from the previous arc.

Roderick said:
So I guess the forthcoming speculation will be if we're actually going to see the Black Swordsman Arc done now that this Golden Age trilogy is going to be over and done with in the coming weeks. And what the chances are it will be good

The studio's founder, Eiko Tanaka, said the Lost Children Arc would be next, even though Miura expressed his desire for it to be the Black Swordsman Arc. But yeah, I'm sure we'll hear more concrete information about what's next in the coming months. If anything.

tama chan · February 1, 2013

Walter said:
I don't think that's a convincing argument, really. Movie goers aren't all morons. It's almost the status quo for an antihero to have a sordid past, of which only scant details are known at the outset. It's not that difficult of a pill to swallow for modern audiences.

Anyway, one could just as easily argue that audiences new to this adaptation could be put off by the introduction of the God Hand, branding and sacrificial concepts in the final act of the trilogy. Where in the manga, readers are expected to already have that context from the previous arc.

Yea you are probably right; just thought it might be one of the many things. Wasn't it already mentioned that they wanted to do the Golden Age arc because thats what people were most familiar with? I forgot...

Also, know this has been talked about already but I still wonder what went through the minds of these film makers when they change something. Like the Snake Baron for the Carcus killing apostle. Or the extended ball room dancing instead of bonfire of dreams. It reminds me a little of how edits were in the USA with Japanese anime in the 90s. Not the censorship or cuts with cultural changes like changing foods like moshi, miso soup etc to American foods, but some of the more bizzare ones like airbrushing tears away from a crying child or changing someones smile. Probably not the best comparison but I just mean some of the decesion making for what to add or cut in film or tv sometimes puzzles me.

Walter · February 1, 2013

tama chan said:
Wasn't it already mentioned that they wanted to do the Golden Age arc because thats what people were most familiar with? I forgot...

Something like that, yeah. Poor logic, in my opinion. Guts with the Dragon Slayer is the iconic image of Berserk, not the Golden Age...

I still wonder what went through the minds of these film makers when they change something. Like the Snake Baron for the Carcus killing apostle. Or the extended ball room dancing instead of bonfire of dreams.

It's probably the result of an authority figure at the studio saying something like: "I think it works better my way," and then the change is made. Simple. I say that because the changes often reek of a decision made without a lot of thought, planning or discussion ("Uh, sir, that apostle isn't taller than trees.") In a way, I admire them for making bold decisions, I just wish they weren't all terrible.

It reminds me a little of how edits were in the USA with Japanese anime in the 90s. Not the censorship or cuts with cultural changes like changing foods like moshi, miso soup etc to American foods, but some of the more bizzare ones like airbrushing tears away from a crying child or changing someones smile. Probably not the best comparison but I just mean some of the decesion making for what to add or cut in film or tv sometimes puzzles me.

Or US Kirby constantly being altered to look angry, despite smiling in every other edition of his games (CLICK).

Hanma_Baki · February 1, 2013

tama chan said:
Thats a shame if all of that is accurate Walter. I always thought Judo's conversation with Casca and his last scenes were important to the eclipse.

Well if you never got to know the character in the first place whats the point in leaving his last meaningful speech and thoughts, it'd just seem pretentious and over-dramatized...

Sammoniac · February 1, 2013

tama chan said:
Also, know this has been talked about already but I still wonder what went through the minds of these film makers when they change something. Like the Snake Baron for the Carcus killing apostle.

I fear that they used the Carcus killing apostle instead of the snake baron simply because they didn't want to create a CG model of the snake....and they used the other apostle in the eclipse to kill Carcus. That's fucking lazy. At Least they could have drawn the snake. But noooo, real animation is wayyy to expensive :ubik:

Hanma_Baki · February 1, 2013

Hey, lests make an anime adaptation of the best manga ever! Hey, lets base it on the giant flashback that actually should play out after another arc! ...ya know, being a flashback and all. Our main goal is to animate as much battle and sex scenes as possible so this arc is the perfect choice compared to the rest! The story is so deep and complex so lets try to cram it into 3 relatively short films. Every little part is essential to the story so lets make some cuts, or at least drastically render some scenes, in fact, why not make some real changes here and there too. Wow, look, you barely recognize the original now! We made it so much better than the manga itself! Woohoo!

...ok now I'm torturing myself :iva:

Draculoid · February 1, 2013

Been holding off on voicing my disappointed but I guess it's time to cave. I can't believe how terribly aggravating this entire thing has been. Being in my third year of university now I indoctrinated a few close friends into Berserk and was so excited when I first heard about the new movies thinking how great of a time it was, being able to now enjoy and share even more new content with my friends since they just got caught up. I know through nitpicking we knew it was going to be bad from the start but what it has finally turned into is just a complete joke and horribly, horribly aggravating. I never even wanted to share news of the films or watch them with my friends even though this should have been the perfect thing for that.

The thing that makes me the most mad is the fact that we were straight up fucking lied to. This movie series was advertised and constantly fucking feed to us as a TRUE and FAITHFUL adaptation of the series with the obvious comparison being made to the 1997 television series. You can't fucking say things like that and then have a finished product hundreds of times less accurate than television series. In this way I feel any reader of the series is literally being giving the finger with the hypocrisy and farce this entire affair has become but always essential has been.

I'm sorry for all of the swearing in this post but I know that shouldn't be a problem around these parts. On more of a note related to the third movie specifically I'm still very interested/scared/worried about the rape scene. That comment about the music being strange or too much or what have you..... combined with my worries after seeing how the Griffith/Charlotte scene was depicted....I'm just worried that scene alone might be the fuck you cherry on the shit cake. It doesn't help that I really felt the scene was done well in the television series and they will definitely want to be over-the-top by comparison.

Edit: Btw I also agree whole heartedly that The Black Swordsman would have been excellent movie material. I feel they could definitely find a way to fit it into one movie and keep the essence. You would have some familiar with the snake baron parts from the television series but then continue with the Count. It would deliver the perfect vibe of a return to Berserk but with a new twist as well as easily set up a way to then do an OVA series of Golden Age with loyal fans (assuming they didn't fuck up Blackswordsman). Not to hold the Black Swordsman in any lower regard, but I feel as though the Golden Age is what I feel the need more for the small details, that they would then hopefully be able to follow faithfully due to many, many less restrictions on OVA creation and release. They literally run for however many volumes as needed as whatever length from what I've seen. Just imagining this smarter and more effective handling of Berserk makes me depressed.....if only....

SuperVegetto · February 1, 2013

Movie 3 review from someone in MAL. It's most likely not a very correct one as he could be overrating it (and most likely is a lot, judging by a 8/10 rating when we know the cuts and changes, though he does complain about some things), but I guess it's worth reading.

Continuing from where the last movie leaves off, Guts leaves the Band of the Hawk and Griffith is captured. It is now a year later and Guts has returned to save Griffith who is now only beyond a mere shell of his former glory self. Anyway, I say this has been the best movie of the trilogy so far. In context to story, the beginning is very rushed and some scenes are taken out from the original manga and some are properly rearranged. But it doesn't really hurt the flow for the story in relation to the movie. It works in its own way, but I will admit as a manga purist, idealistically, I wish it followed the manga 100% to a t, but that's just me. This movie is now 2 hours so it allows more content, though I wish all the movies were 2 hours.

The controversial CG in my humble opinion, has improved but still has its problems. I say the frame rate is more even and the frame size in proportion to the characters and foreground appropriately accommodates it. It still comes across as "gamey," but it is an improvement, but by no means perfect. The action is very violent and lives up to its bad ass title. There will be plenty of blood and gore. Even though Guts is the main character and a bad ass, I will admit when this guy fights, he scares me and this movie does a good job of making me scared of the main character. There's nothing to fear, but fear itself, but fear fears Guts. On a list of top anime bad asses, Guts has to be on that list no doubt.

I say what defines the art and animation is how it sets the atmosphere and brings you into the emotions. You feel Griffith's fragility. Even though you don't see him unmasked, the detail to the art on whatever you see of his face is enough to give you an idea of what he would look like if unmasked. You see the hesitation of Guts on whether or not he should leave the Hawks again. You feel Casca's frustrations. I feel that the raw emotions bring a sense of substance in conjunction to its R-15+ (the equivalent to an NC-17 in America) rating.

The voice acting, as I have admitted in previous reviews, has been an issue for me. I will admit that Guts' new actor has shown improvement and shown instances that he can capture the character. But I will openly admit as a purist and fanboy that Nobutoshi Canna is still Guts to me while Michael Bell will always be his English voice to me. The guy who plays Jedau does an ok imitation of the character's original voice actor, Ishida Akira. Maybe for people not familiar with the previous anime series and the games will not find this to be an issue and may like the voice actors.

Like the second movie, the soundtrack is more acoustics and orchestrated. My thoughts on that carry onto this movie as well. It suits the time period very well and knows how to suit the atmosphere. The orchestra in the ending credits was very impressive. Susumu Hirakawa still does the opening theme and is my favorite part of the soundtrack. Still, like the newer voice cast, fans new to Berserk who had not seen the previous anime series or played the games will probably not think of this as an issue.

The closest thing to a spoiler I can give is that after the ending credits, there is a post credits scene which isn't much for some people, but after that is over, there is a message in clear English that says "This is only the beginning" meaning we will get new Berserk movies. I say its only natural with the easter eggs in previous movies, this series deserves its shot where it really shines. For those not familiar with the Berserk manga, this new trilogy is a mere fraction of what Berserk has to offer. So I hope we hear more news soon if a new Berserk movie will come out this year or not.

After that, we get a bonus music video!!! So fans will most likely enjoy this.

Source: http://myanimelist.net/reviews.php?id=85517

p.s Skipping the Black Swordsman arc will be the most stupid decision of a studio EVER. Period
Let's just hope it doesn't happen even if they mentioned the Lost Children arc

Sammoniac · February 1, 2013

It sounds more like a 6 or 7 out of 10. The "This is only the beginning" message kind of reassures me, but scares me at the same time. They'll have to change their philosophy a lot if they don't want to lose too many fans or go bankrupt. Also, why put so much emphasis on the fact that Guts is bad ass? Is that relevant in any way? "Ohhh this guy is soooo bad ass, we have to rate this movie at least 8/10!"

Berserk Saga Project News

Walter

Administrator

JezzaX

Sammoniac

You taffers!

Walter

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RaffoBaffo

Ex-Newser of the late Berserk Chronicles

Walter

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JezzaX

Devilwoman

tama chan

Rodrigo

Gobolatula

praise be to grail!

Walter

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TelegramSam

Grail

Feel the funk blast

tama chan

Roderick

Walter

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tama chan

Walter

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Hanma_Baki

Sammoniac

You taffers!

Hanma_Baki

Draculoid

SuperVegetto

Sammoniac

You taffers!