Author Topic: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project  (Read 11399 times)

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Offline KuraiDragoon

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Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« on: November 04, 2011, 03:18:22 PM »
I'm not really knowledgeable about what Japan does and doesn't allow these days, so I thought I'd ask everyone. What should we realistically expect in terms of content censorship in the new Berserk movies? As we all know, there are many extremely mature elements throughout the series, both in violence and sexual content/nudity. Most of the time, these elements are very important to the story, or at least to the dramatic feel of the scene. So things like intestines spilling out of peoples bodies, too much for the big screen? Brains chopped in half? How about Guts being raped as a child, and Charlotte being graphically assaulted by her father(both of which are crucial moments in the story)? What about Griffith and Charlotte's night together, the way it was depicted in the manga? Pagan orgy scenes? Wyald's introductory scene(which was awesome)? There are so many things.

So what is the most that they can actually show these days? And what is the most, in your opinions, that they realistically will show?
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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 03:40:53 PM »
This is a depressing thought in my mind for a few reasons.

 - They can show just about anything they want, it's art, but they almost certainly won't.

 - More recently I tend to relate Berserk as a Historical Fantasy Horror, emphasis on horror!, but for some reason Berserk seems to gets translated as a Drama first in many regards.

 - As has been noted they want to appeal to the younger audience in dealing with insurmountable odds, I think, so the focus will most likely be taken off the ultraviolence and rape (really near-rape in most cases...)

 - Dead women and children can easily be replaced with soldiers wearing armor, and scenes can easily cut away before any of the intense brutality. Some things can't be avoided however, so I expect to see Adonis die for sure, the Eclipse obviously, and if we make it to it things like the pagan orgy can't really be avoided.

 - Donovan could be hinted at or depicted in a way that gets the message across without actually showing it. I think if the line is truly drawn anywhere it will be at child rape and/or nudity.



These things probably seem like juvenile aspects to get hung up on, but they're absolutely necessary in delivering the sheer shock and terror that should be felt in many instances. Sadly, will most likely be lost on the viewer.

If people can't handle it, they should get out. Miura chose to start the series with Guts fucking an Apostle for a reason.  :femto:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 03:50:11 PM »
I think you shouldn't expect anything too gory. It's never been the focus in the series, and since here everything will be in motion I don't think they'll bother detailing the gore. As for important scenes like Guts & Donovan or Charlotte & the King, who knows really. Same goes for Wyald, before wondering about his introduction scene you should probably hope he gets featured at all.

More recently I tend to relate Berserk as a Historical Fantasy Horror, emphasis on horror!

Berserk is just fantasy. Not really horror, and definitely not historical.

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 03:57:13 PM »
Over here, if it's in a theater and it's rated R they can rape as many cartoon kids as they want, as long as it's done tastefully. I think it's a matter of choice of audience. I hope that Warner Brothers' involvement doesn't mean they impose a bunch of bullshit standards just to conform to what audience they think they're aiming for. Honestly, a PG-13 Berserk would be crap.

Offline Gill

Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2011, 04:33:34 PM »
Over here, if it's in a theater and it's rated R they can rape as many cartoon kids as they want, as long as it's done tastefully. I think it's a matter of choice of audience. I hope that Warner Brothers' involvement doesn't mean they impose a bunch of bullshit standards just to conform to what audience they think they're aiming for. Honestly, a PG-13 Berserk would be crap.
I just googled what rated R means, (because I didn't know anything about foreign rating :farnese: ) and I'm not sure if that's enough, I think Berserk is too much for that... But I don't know how strict it is.
For the PG-13 one, I can imagine that "famous" 4kids-like way of censoring...  :ganishka:

If it was shown in theaters here, the only rating I can imagine is 18+. In that case, they can show anything that was in the manga. There's a stricter one existing - the "X" only for adults - but I've never seen anything was rated like that, even the most violent horror movies or porn.

About the japanese censorship... I heard that there are very strict rules about TV shows, but I think, in theatres, they can show more, because it's easier to control the age of the audience...
I searched and I found that the highest there is 18... I think that sound ok, I don't think Berserk is suitable for a much younger audience.

Xem

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2011, 05:25:41 PM »
Berserk is just fantasy. Not really horror, and definitely not historical.

Labeling is definitely not a very interesting or fun topic so I'll leave it by saying I was referring to how Berserk tends to represent fictitious versions of historical events. The 100 Year War, the Inquisition, and the Kushan Invasion are some examples of this. Anyways, you're right, historical fantasy is a made-up sub-genre, but I find it easier to use when describing the series.

Some people immediately snub their nose at fantasy thinking "Oh, Lord of the Rings...". When words like historical and horror are keeping it company it's makes my life a lot easier, especially when I have a giant tattoo to explain in a lot of situations.  :farnese:

Offline Seņor Caudillo

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2011, 05:57:23 PM »
As far as I'm aware of, a theatrical film in Japan can contain as much amount of blood, violence, disturbing imagery and nudity as the director and producers please, just as long as there's no visible pubic hair or detailed depiction of human genitalia  :ganishka:
Those two things are a big no-no there, and are actually forbidden from being shown in any form of entertainment media by the Japanese federal law. So I don't believe that censorship will be a significant issue to Studio 4°C.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 06:18:16 PM »
Labeling is definitely not a very interesting or fun topic so I'll leave it by saying I was referring to how Berserk tends to represent fictitious versions of historical events. The 100 Year War, the Inquisition, and the Kushan Invasion are some examples of this.

Oh I know what you meant and I understand why you said that. But while there are references used to flesh out the background of the story that evoke historical events to some extent, they are never the focus of the story, nor are ever in any way close to depicting actual real world history. Hence the fact it's not a "historical" manga. I know this can look like useless nitpicking, but there are real historical series and so I think it's important to mark the distinction. Furthermore, a lot of fantasy works inspire themselves from real historical events to create a more realistic background, so it's almost a staple of the genre in the first place.

About the japanese censorship... I heard that there are very strict rules about TV shows, but I think, in theatres, they can show more, because it's easier to control the age of the audience...
I searched and I found that the highest there is 18... I think that sound ok, I don't think Berserk is suitable for a much younger audience.

Unfortunately I think they're more likely to shoot for a lower age rating. 18+ would greatly limit the audience, and studios reaaaally don't like that. One can hope, though. Besides we might get an "unrated" Blu-Ray edition down the line as well.

As far as I'm aware of, a theatrical film in Japan can contain as much amount of blood, violence, disturbing imagery and nudity as the director and producers please, just as long as there's no visible pubic hair or detailed depiction of human genitalia  :ganishka:
Those two things are a big no-no there, and are actually forbidden from being shown in any form of entertainment media by the Japanese federal law. So I don't believe that censorship will be a significant issue to Studio 4°C.

Guess what? You're wrong. Like most countries in the world, Japan has a rating system (and it's not as severe towards depictions of genitalia as it used to be either, the laws have been amended).

A Japanese film rating regulator known as Eirin (映倫?) (full-name: Eiga Rinri Kanri Iinkai (映画倫理管理委員会?)) has a film classification system under which films are classified into one of the following categories:

- G: General audiences, all ages admitted.
- PG-12: Some material may be inappropriate for children under the age of 12. Parental or adult accompaniment recommended. The film contains mature themes, partial nudity, explicit language, some violence, etc. which is inappropriate for people under 12.
- R15+: No children under 15 admitted. The film contains adult themes, nudity, explicit language, violence, sexual situations, etc. which is inappropriate for people under 15.
- R18+: No children under 18 admitted. The film contains adult themes, detailed violence, explicit sex, sexual violence, pornographic content, drug use, etc. which is inappropriate for people under 18.

Offline KuraiDragoon

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 06:41:07 PM »
Well then, here's hoping for an R18+. As unimportant as some of those details may be to some people, the shock factor has always been one of the most important parts of Berserk for me. Opening that one page and saying "hoolllly shit no way." I don't want to completely lose that. It also just makes it seem more real to me, more like I'm really there seeing it. Though from that Eirin system, even R15+ doesn't sound like it would be too bad.

So I guess it really comes down to what kind of audience they're trying to shoot for, which in my opinion should be the same target audience as the manga. There's really no reason not to, there are plenty of adult anime/manga fans in Japan.

As far as I'm aware of, a theatrical film in Japan can contain as much amount of blood, violence, disturbing imagery and nudity as the director and producers please, just as long as there's no visible pubic hair or detailed depiction of human genitalia  :ganishka:
Those two things are a big no-no there, and are actually forbidden from being shown in any form of entertainment media by the Japanese federal law. So I don't believe that censorship will be a significant issue to Studio 4°C.
Wasn't the no-pubic hair rule removed quite a while ago?
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Offline Gill

Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2011, 06:42:06 PM »
Like most countries in the world, Japan has a rating system.
I also checked the rating system in Wikipedia, but thanks for quoting it here for everyone :serpico:
Then I guess, the 15+ one would be the most suitable, although the "detailed violence" is only written at the 18+ (and flying intestines are pretty detailed I think...  :ganishka: )
I think they'll handle these parts like they did it in the '97 anime.

Offline KuraiDragoon

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 06:45:03 PM »
Then I guess, the 15+ one would be the most suitable
I wouldn't say that. Most likely? Maybe. But not the most suitable for Berserk.
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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 07:35:54 PM »
The Eclipse has to be R18+ for the sheer shock value of what happens alone, so here's hoping the whole trilogy follows the same rules. Can anyone think of a trilogy that had different ratings within it?

Offline Saeko

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2011, 11:34:52 PM »
i think this will be much like the old anime. lots of blood. maybe not gore but lots of blood and violence and mild nudity(like Casca's boobs and naked griffith bathing) i dont see this as a bad thing really though. i'm cool with it. also if you see the part of the trailer when Guts and Griffith double team on Zodd, you see Guts cutting is arm off and you catch a glimpse of Zodd's flesh.

Anyway there have been other violent films that aired in japan such as "Sword of the Stranger". People were getting stabbed in the head...set on fire, ect ect. so i dont see any issue with Berserk being just as violent

Offline Konketsuji

Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 07:49:27 PM »
Anyway there have been other violent films that aired in japan such as "Sword of the Stranger". People were getting stabbed in the head...set on fire, ect ect. so i dont see any issue with Berserk being just as violent
Yeah, good times, fighting scenes were plain awesome. I wonder how it all turned out if these guys were animating the movie instead of studio 4c.

And I'm dead sure we won't see intestines and such flying around, I mean, look at the guy who Guts supposed to cut in half in the trailer, he's just flying around in one piece and a little bit of blood coming from his side. :sad:
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 08:17:30 AM by Konketsuji »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2011, 12:09:41 AM »
look at the guy who Guts supposed to cut in half in the trailer, he's just flying around in one peace and a little bit of blood coming from his side. :sad:

Guts doesn't cut that guy in half in the manga either. He just sends him flying backwards, still in one piece.

Offline Konketsuji

Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2011, 08:26:06 AM »
Guts doesn't cut that guy in half in the manga either. He just sends him flying backwards, still in one piece.
Too bad I didn't bother to check on that. Yeah, the first guy just flies, it's the third who got cut in half. =)

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 04:47:44 AM »
I can assure you that its pretty graphic. I don't want to ruin anything but there is enough blood to go around. especially when Zodd does his thing the first time he and Guts meet.
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Offline Groovy Metal Fist

Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2012, 05:48:59 AM »
I can assure you that its pretty graphic. I don't want to ruin anything but there is enough blood to go around. especially when Zodd does his thing the first time he and Guts meet.

Is Dillos wounded like he was in the manga or is it more similar to the 1997 anime?
Here are the two pictures for reference
http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Dilos

Do they include the arm dismemberment and reattachment? It'd pretty fucked up if they didn't at least imply it.

It's spelled with two l's in both the DH and media blasters translations.

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2012, 05:55:31 AM »
Is Dillos wounded like he was in the manga or is it more similar to the 1997 anime?
Here are the two pictures for reference
http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Dilos

Do they include the arm dismemberment and reattachment? It'd pretty fucked up if they didn't at least imply it.

It's spelled with two l's in both the DH and media blasters translations.

They don't even have that part in it!  =V
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Offline Groovy Metal Fist

Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2012, 06:10:11 AM »
What other scenes do they treat this way?

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2012, 06:21:16 AM »
What other scenes do they treat this way?
Hmm that's a good question... You are going to have to ask me about specific parts... for the most part it was all good. I think as we are for the most part pretty big fans of this series, you are always going to find things to knit pick.  i would just enjoy the movie as its done really well... a lot better then the old series anyways.
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Offline Roderick

Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2012, 06:41:41 AM »
I can assure you that its pretty graphic. I don't want to ruin anything but there is enough blood to go around. especially when Zodd does his thing the first time he and Guts meet.

Is there much detail in gore (flying organs and such) or is it just blood?

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2012, 06:53:01 AM »
Is there much detail in gore (flying organs and such) or is it just blood?
There are detailed organs flying through the air. you see it during the first 10 minutes of the movie. I can only imagine how its going to be when they get to the 100 man slayer part!  :beast:
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Offline Oburi

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Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2012, 07:10:39 AM »
They don't even have that part in it!  =V

Are you kidding me. That scene was so essential to setting up how scary Zodd is going going to be. Stuff like this bugs the hell out of me.

But thanks for the info Saiya.

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Content Censorship in the Berserk Saga Project
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2012, 07:56:13 AM »
There are detailed organs flying through the air. you see it during the first 10 minutes of the movie. I can only imagine how its going to be when they get to the 100 man slayer part!  :beast:

Thank  Goodness for this. This is something I actually REALLY appreciated when I read the manga for the first time after watching the anime which I did not care for.

When Guts splits open Bazuso's head in the new movie, do we still see his eyeball pop out of the socket? That panel in the manga was one of the most pivotal moments in Berserk for me.