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Offline vEnTh

An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« on: October 16, 2012, 03:37:19 AM »

Id like to begin with some Rakshas facts.

-Times Rakshas has been seen killing a foe: 0.(he doesnt even kill the kushan mammoths just disorients and frightens them with darts i believe)

-Times Rakshas has used his apostle form: 0. (i dont believe he is an apostle)

-Times Rakshas has spoken in BOOMING BOLD TEXT as all major apostles do: 0

-People enlisted or pledging to enlist under Griffith's command whether human or apostle who show him the utmost respect at all times: All of
them, from known legends such as Locus or Grunbeld, down to cretins like Corkus. All of them. ... Except for two: Guts and Rakshas.

The speculation begins

Consider the sequence in the capital city while occupied by Ganishka. During all that fighting in the arena, no Rakshas. Rakshas does
however show up to toy with Silat and the Tapasa leading them on a chase to where they would discover the dark and truly evil atrocities
Ganishka, their supreme emperor is working on. Why does he do this? It cannot be so transparent as 'see what an evil emperor you follow? Join
us!' Rakshas never makes any proposal of any sort to suggest it was some simple recruitment tactic. So that begs the question, 'Why did
Rakshas want Silat to see Ganishka's atrocities? - I have my own theory about that as well but its too much to include in this already huge
post. My last thought on this is, Rakshas actions and behavior during this sequence are not 'apostle-like' in any way, shape or form. Bad pun intended.

2
There is a chapter in Dark Horse volume 34 entitled 'Demonic Release' When charging into battle for Midland versus Ganishka/Shiva and his war
minions Griffth shouts out in a two page spread 'Demonic Release!' What follows is panel after panel of apostles changing into apostle form
and joining the war. Every apostle and their mother is present in apostle form for this one, and Griffith even warns his army that even his
war demons cant check all the foes, human soldiers must contribute to secure victory.

All are shown following Griffith's orders to the letter. Except for... Rakshas.

The major theory I believe and agree with is, Rakshas is a spy.


Quote
Our duty as Bakiraka is to scout.
-Silat DH Vol 18

3
Rakshas cloak is of the same style craftmanship as Skull Knight and Guts. This may be Miura Sensei subltly classifying a character's allegiance. This is a theory of mine since i dont recall seeing long dramatic tattered black cloaks and capes on any characters in this series save these three. If this is not the case, then I have a storyline theory as to the similarities of their garb later in this post.

It is this cape's properties as an item of magical or astral construction that grants Rakshas his non-human stealth and shapeshifting skills,
in the same fashion that the berserker armor grants guts berserker fighting talent, or Serpico's cape allows him to use its astral properties
to accomplish astounding feats of agility. Note - Serpico's cloak appears differently due to the nature of the cloak, wind sylphs in my opinion. The black and tattered cloaks reflect the nature of the wearers and if it is the case, the type of astral presence present in their gear, certainly sylphs of an unstable yet powerful substance.

It was stated when Schierke handed out the magic weapons and gifts that they were powered by
sylphs, and there are many types its not a simple as earth, wind, fire, water although these are the four pricncipal elements. Consider the god of Mud and Rotting trees or whatever it was she dug up in Qlipoth. Bad pun intended.

3
When Griffith's new officers all assemble to pledge loyalty in volume 22 they speak of being guided by and oracle. In Rakshas' case I believe
the 'oracle' is Skull Knight, bidding Rakshas to do what he is a master of, and that is gather intelligence. SK is shown observing Griffith and Zodd fly off after Griffith's rebirth. Tracking their movements, he is.

Rakshas is an exile from the bakiraka clan, a clan of the most talented assassins and covert operatives in the world of Berserk. Although we
are given little so far to as to why Rakshas was exiled it is my intuition that tells me he doesnt have the cold heart of an assassin and
refused to carry out an assassination he was ordered to do, leading to his exile. Again his confirmed kill count is 0.

The next few paragraphs holds the least water on my part since it is pure and utter speculation. However its my attempt to clarify how such a
relationship between SK and Rakshas comes about. In the preceding paragraph, I speculated as to why Rakshas was exiled. Griffith found Flora
'more of a threat than an army of 10,000 men' and sent top members of his circle to kill her. If she is so skilled as to get one such as
Griffith to take notice and act, then it stands to reason any powerful apostle would view her as a dangerous threat as well. My theory is,
this isnt the first time she's struck fear or uncertainty into demons and apostles and perhaps Ganishka among others viewed Flora the same as Griffith... a dangerous loose end they wanted eliminated. Now, if Griffith sends the A team hit squad, who would Ganishka (or another apostle looking to hire the best assassins) send for a hit on Flora? Do I need to say it? Bakiraka. Member assigned for job or assigned to lead a group for job? Rakshas.

I believe Rakshas has a conscience and frankly, doesnt enjoy killing as a job, not detached and cold like that crew in the tunnel the king
sent to kill Griffith when the old Band of the Hawk leaders were fleeing the tunnels of Windham. I think he botched this job on purpose, or outright refused when it came right down to it, or something similar, and fled or escaped.. Outright disobeying his mandate, he was exiled and marked by the Bakiraka.

The Tapasa often address Silat as 'Young Master'. It follows that 'Old Master' whoever that may be is the current leader of the Bakiraka, ordered the assassination and thereafter exiled Rakshas. I feel Silat does not know the whole truth behind what Im describing here and is taking 'Old Master's' word at face value.

As part of this sequence, I think Flora saw what I'm seeing or hoping to see in Rakshas -an extremely talented and powerful misfit with nowhere to go after the events I suggested. When details are revealed to Flora, Rashas receives his current garb is a gift from flora. The items worn by Guts, SK, and Rakshas all have some characteristics in common as if crafted by the same person. the color, texture and frills of the capes and cloaks, some similarities in the helmets and face masks.

The details are up to the author of course, but it boils down to Flora gifting Rakshas a cloak that takes his stealh skills and agility to
inhuman level to give him the power to elude the Bakiraka and give him an edge to survive in return for the sacrifice he made by forfeiting
his mission.

4
Skull Knight and Flora were old friends, and extremely good friends at that. There is a mutual respect and trust well conveyed in the
storytelling. From this I will make an assumption Skull Knight and Rakshas become acquainted through Flora. Rakshas is spying on the band of
the hawk at SK's bidding. like Schierke has taught Guts party the skill of thought transference, I believe Rakshas and Skull Knight
communicate using this method. This seems to be an elementary skill for those with knowledge of the astral realm which SK certainly has. If
Schierke can successfully teach this form of communication to work with Dropey, Im sure SK and Rakshas could use this method.

To theorize the practical use of Rakshas and SK using thought transference consider the following. Rakshas hitching a ride on a (imo)
clueless Zodd and communicating to SK through flow of Od: (now is the time to strike at Femto!) when Femto kneels seems to fit logically for the timing of that sequence and reinforces my theory.

This sequence was also not the first time Zodd appears to be clueless to Rakshas presence. When Zodd was sitting on that rock guarding
Griffith at the camp at one point, Rakshas is close by and handles a situation quickly and quietly with an apparently oblivious Zodd as to
what was happening behind him.

To make a few more points regarding the sequence on top of Ganishka/Shiva. Femto kneels, SK appears, Zodd attacks with fury. Rashas...
disappears. He does not assist Zodd with defense of Femto. Why? Its not his objective to protect Femto just to observe and inform SK, if my
theory holds. Why doesnt he help SK then? It is not possible for Rakshas to harm Femto only SK has the capability to do this. Why doesnt
Rakshas help by attacking Zodd? SK has handled Zodd in the past without a scratch, Rakshas cannot fight on Zodd's level and most importantly
it would blow his cover.

Why dont we see where Rakshas goes after the sequence? We didnt see where he was beforehand either. Hes Rakshas. Probably snuck a ride down same way he got up.

5

Ill stop here but not before playing devil's advocate with myself to show you all I really am speculating, open minded, and it could very well turn out Rakshas is an apostle after all. There is a thread speculating what Rakshas apostle form would be and a spider is often cited. I think this is a good guess but i think Miura Sensei already 'went there' with the Beherit-Apostle who was quite spider-like. On Zodd's wing, Rakshas is hanging upside down when he shows his face. Also, when stealthily taking out that crew with his squad he makes a reference like 'we have not tasted blood yet'. Hanging upside down... tasting blood... cloak that sometimes resembles a flying.... bat. Should he indeed be an apostle, my money goes on a bat-like appearance.

And a question/thought. In the dark horse translations during the Silat chase he tells the tapasa 'follow him!' Until then I had suspected Rakshas was female. So my question is one of translation. In the Japanese untranslated, does Silat indeed use a masculine noun 'him' or is it not specific like 'Keep following!' without a 'male' connotation?

Hope this was interesting and at least some part of it was new or interesting, or made you think differently. Especially whichever admin reset my password and told me not to presume I had a fresh take on anything. :void: I know a lot of this has been speculated and likely not how things will play out, but i tried to back it up solid and fill in some gaps.

Thanks.

Offline Walter

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 04:19:50 AM »
You can't make any of these assertions with any degree of confidence. It's a puzzle we aren't meant to solve yet, and exaggerating what little evidence we have isn't going to help our understanding of things.

There's really just too much here to respond to individually... Though some of your assertions are flat out incorrect, so I'll take some time to correct these. I hope that will leave you with a better understanding of some things.

Quote
Times Rakshas has been seen killing a foe: 0.
Miura's just being mysterious about his abilities. But there's no reason to believe he didn't kill the would-be assassins in Volume 23. Certainly not enough grounds to use this as conjecture that he's some kind of pacifist. In his introductory scene, he says he wants to cut off Griffith's head.

Quote
Times Rakshas has spoken in BOOMING BOLD TEXT as all major apostles do: 0
Apostles speak with "booming text" when they're transformed. Not in their regular forms. But other than that, SK and the God Hand also speak with that font. So, nothing special about Rakshas.

Quote
People enlisted or pledging to enlist under Griffith's command whether human or apostle who show him the utmost respect at all times: ... All of them. ... Except for two: Guts and Rakshas.
Quote
Rakshas actions and behavior during this sequence are not 'apostle-like' in any way, shape or form.
Rakshas was drawn to him, like all apostles were. And like all apostles, he can do what he wants and act however he wants. His flippant manners are an indication of nothing apart from his flippant personality.

Quote
'Demonic Release'
Correct translation: Unleash Evil.

Quote
All are shown following Griffith's orders to the letter. Except for... Rakshas.
How can you say that for sure? We don't know his apostle form yet, and there were a lot of apostles on those pages :rakshas: In all seriousness though, that's proof of nothing. He's simply not shown during that sequence. When we see him again later, he's how we normally see him.

Quote
Our duty as Bakiraka is to scout.
-Silat DH Vol 18
You're reading too much into that one line. It's not a creed of the clan. Silat's simply referring to the task at hand in Albion. Later in volume 22 we see a general rebuking Silat for failing in his task to track and capture Griffith.

Quote
Rakshas cloak is of the same style craftmanship as Skull Knight and Guts.
If all you mean is that they're black cloaks, then this is a correct statement. Otherwise, no.

Quote
they speak of being guided by and oracle. In Rakshas' case I believe the 'oracle' is Skull Knight
They're referring to the dream that everyone had a variation of in the events of Volume 17.

Quote
Rakshas is close by and handles a situation quickly and quietly with an apparently oblivious Zodd as to what was happening behind him.
Didn't look like obliviousness to me. It looked like delegation. This is also a pretty worthless example of Rakshas' so-called sneaking ability, since he had every right to be in the camp as a leader within Griffith's Apostle Army.

As for your fanfic about Flora/SK/Rakshas, it'd be more suitable in Creation Station.

Quote
In the Japanese untranslated, does Silat indeed use a masculine noun 'him' or is it not specific like 'Keep following!' without a 'male' connotation?
It's just "follow" (追え).

Welcome to the forum :void:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline vEnTh

Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 11:29:41 AM »
In the spirit of discussion, I just want to clarify myself and comment on some of your corrections. I say this because Ive seen other threads where people get all abrasive and I dont want that. I took a bit of time putting that together with some thought and I just want to participate. That was my first post as you know so I realize it was maybe 3 posts that could have been better split I will try to be more concise for sure.

Quote
Miura's just being mysterious about his abilities. But there's no reason to believe he didn't kill the would-be assassins in Volume 23. Certainly not enough grounds to use this as conjecture that he's some kind of pacifist. In his introductory scene, he says he wants to cut off Griffith's head.

I guess were both really speculating here. I didnt want to imply I thought Rakshas was a tree hugger. Im saying he may have a conscience, like Guts. Yes, we have seen Guts keep the population of Midland trimmed quite nicely over the years, however, he does not kill aimlessly. Two times specifically come to mind, Gambino and Adonis, where Guts was in despair over what transpired and how they died at his hand.

Im saying there's a difference between the rules of battle if you will, and being sent to kill an old lady in a tree, especially if you have a problem with authority, a problem which Guts wrote the book on and theres evidence of that trait in Rakshas as well. Being exiled from the bakiraka is a blaring example, and being a smart-ass with the incarnation of the Femto newly crowned 5th member of the Godhand and future Emperor of Midland/Falconia upon first meeting him takes a unique kind of personality for sure.

I put it as a fact that his confirmed kill count is 0. I guess upon reflection many people are sure its implied he did, however there have been an ample number of battles that included the new crop of top apostles and not once has a panel shown Rakshas kill, transform, or display any evidence of his true skill set.

I totally respect that you are certain Rakshas is an apostle. My view from the information given is that its more likely he is not an apostle and something else behind the scenes is going on maybe something we cant know with the information we have.

I mean Rakshas was first introduced in volume 22 in April of 2008. volume 36 was just released Oct of 2012. If hes just another apostle it doesnt make sense to me that the author is just being mysterious with his abilities for 4.5 years and 14 published volumes later.

Apostle or not, 'Rakshas is up to something' is the sense a lot of readers get. He just not on the same page as Locus, Irvine, Grunbeld who all come across as yes men without much potential for intrigue. I think thats why Rakshas has got a lot of fans and I chose to make my first post about him.

Quote
Apostles speak with "booming text" when they're transformed. Not in their regular forms. But other than that, SK and the God Hand also speak with that font. So, nothing special about Rakshas.

My point was that it certainly is a trait all greater apostles and Godhand display and Rakshas hasnt shown that trait. I was just trying to compile evidence that what my speculation was held some water. I was trying to show just one more bit of evidence for case.

Quote
Rakshas was drawn to him, like all apostles were. And like all apostles, he can do what he wants and act however he wants. His flippant manners are an indication of nothing apart from his flippant personality.

Haha Wyald said that same thing in so many words right before Zodd agreed and proceeded to amputate one half of his body from the other, horn style. Someone might wanna tell Rak that story and fast  :zodd:

Quote
Correct translation: Unleash Evil.

Ok I didnt know that I am obviously a Dark Horse reader and went by their translation. It doesnt change much the point I was trying to make since those two phrases are similar and the events that follow stay true.

Quote
How can you say that for sure? We don't know his apostle form yet, and there were a lot of apostles on those pages Rakshas In all seriousness though, that's proof of nothing. He's simply not shown during that sequence. When we see him again later, he's how we normally see him
in response to my statement (All are shown following Griffith's orders to the letter. Except for... Rakshas.)

I dont know how to phrase these responses without sounding combative so please again dont misunderstand. I think we're both kinda going in circles because neither of us knows what the heck Rakshas was up to during that sequence, as usual for Rakshas. In my efforts to show a pattern by a certain character that repeatedly is conspicuous by his absence or actions, it can be argued 'well you cant prove it either'.

The reason Rakshas gets more and more suspicious and intriguing volume after volume is this very phenomenon. At least for those who think his path is going to head in a different direction at some point.

Quote
If all you mean is that they're black cloaks, then this is a correct statement. Otherwise, no.

Even if it happens to be of no consequence, nothing below strikes you as similar besides being black? No similarities in the mask or head wear?

Offline Walter

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 12:29:45 PM »
Quote
I realize it was maybe 3 posts that could have been better split I will try to be more concise for sure.
It always helps to be concise, otherwise your point becomes muddled among a series of explanations. Explain  your main point first, then back it up with your evidence.

So, brass tacks here: You believe Rakshas is a spy for forces of good—the evidence being that he wears a black cloak, and that he's never been shown on-page to be killing someone. But your pièce de résistance is that we don't know FOR SURE that he's not. Am I right so far?

Quote
I guess were both really speculating here.
No, you're merely being obtuse about what's implied in that scene. What do you think was happening in those trees after Rakshas sneaks up behind those Kushan assassins? He tickles them and then they run off laughing? He shoots them with sleep darts and then carries their bodies to a faraway place, and they wake up dazed and confused? How does that scene end if you're adamant that he doesn't kill them? What's a better explanation than the obvious ending that's implied?

Your larger point is that Rakshas "has a conscience" and doesn't kill just anybody, which you then compare to Guts' lament of Adonis and Gambino. So, Rakshas killing these Kushan assassins would be like when Guts killed Adonis? That's utterly absurd.

Quote
My point was that it certainly is a trait all greater apostles and Godhand display and Rakshas hasnt shown that trait.
Why all this talk of "greater apostles?" All transformed apostles use that text, from the Count to Rochine and all the way to today. We've never seen Rakshas use it because we haven't seen him transformed.

Quote
I mean Rakshas was first introduced in volume 22 in April of 2008. volume 36 was just released Oct of 2012. If hes just another apostle it doesnt make sense to me that the author is just being mysterious with his abilities for 4.5 years and 14 published volumes later.
You really shouldn't go by Dark Horse's dates if you're trying to make a point like this. For the correct dates, see our list of the Japanese volumes here: http://skullknight.net/manga/

Nevertheless, there are still many mysteries left to resolve in this 20+ year series. Often we get clues about things that aren't spelled out to us explicitly until later. Until very recently, you may have argued that Irvine wasn't an apostle. Well... surprise!

Quote
Apostle or not, 'Rakshas is up to something' is the sense a lot of readers get. He just not on the same page as Locus, Irvine, Grunbeld who all come across as yes men without much potential for intrigue.
He seems to have his own personal motivations. It just further reinforces that apostles are a varied sort. They don't all have to act the same way.

Quote
I think we're both kinda going in circles because neither of us knows what the heck Rakshas was up to during that sequence, as usual for Rakshas.
I'm not really going in circles at all. My very first statement to you was that Rakshas is a puzzle we aren't meant to solve yet.

Quote
nothing below strikes you as similar besides being black? No similarities in the mask or head wear?
It's against the forum's rules to post scanlations, so I took the liberty of removing them from your post. But to answer your question, no I saw nothing similar in the Berserk Armor or Skull Knight's armor that reminded me of Rakshas.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 08:34:13 PM »
-Times Rakshas has been seen killing a foe: 0.(he doesnt even kill the kushan mammoths just disorients and frightens them with darts i believe)

-Times Rakshas has used his apostle form: 0. (i dont believe he is an apostle)

So you believe Rakshas can't bring himself to take a life, not even that of an animal, and that he isn't an apostle. Look at the image below.



That Kushan commander does not share your opinion. You know what Rakshas is saying on that page, right? You mention it below. It directly relates to the last panel on the page. The one showing the blood erupting from each soldier as they're butchered by the apostles Rakshas leads. Because yes, Rakshas is an apostle, and not just that, a leader among Griffith's apostles.

So what if we haven't seen him use his apostle form yet? We hadn't seen Irvine's until recently either. Did you think Irvine was also not an apostle before that? Reminds me of the first time we saw Griffith's lieutenants. There was this theory they weren't apostles but legendary warriors out of some tale. It was an interesting idea at the time, but it was quickly obvious that it was erroneous. Yet some people stuck to it. And when we saw each lieutenant show his apostle form, one by one they were crossed off the list. Now only Rakshas is left, and incredibly some people still do not accept the obvious. I hope when his apostle form is finally revealed you come back here and apologize for this thread.

By the way, I take it these guys are just sleeping according to you?



You would say that Rakshas just left them there so they could have a nap? Even though they get trampled by Locus and his men shortly afterwards? Do you not realize to what extent you're lying to yourself here?

-Times Rakshas has spoken in BOOMING BOLD TEXT as all major apostles do: 0

Walter already explained to you how irrelevant that is, but allowed me to pile on: this doesn't mean anything other than the fact we haven't seen Rakshas transform yet.

-People enlisted or pledging to enlist under Griffith's command whether human or apostle who show him the utmost respect at all times: All of
them, from known legends such as Locus or Grunbeld, down to cretins like Corkus. All of them. ... Except for two: Guts and Rakshas.

That's very debatable. Rakshas' actions so far, regardless of what he told Griffith, have been as loyal as that of any other apostle. His very introduction scene had him protect Griffith from an attack by the Tapasa.

Consider the sequence in the capital city while occupied by Ganishka. During all that fighting in the arena, no Rakshas.

He had scouted the area and killed some guards/opened the gate for Locus and his men. Then he lured Silat and the Tapasa, arguably the most powerful opponents inside the castle aside from Ganishka and his monstrous creations, away from the fighting, to show them Ganishka's gruesome work.

Rakshas never makes any proposal of any sort to suggest it was some simple recruitment tactic.

Because it wasn't. It was more along the lines of undermining the Bakiraka's willingness to follow Ganishka's orders, furthering their doubts and reticence about it.

My last thought on this is, Rakshas actions and behavior during this sequence are not 'apostle-like' in any way, shape or form. Bad pun intended.

You don't get to decide what is or isn't "apostle-like". Was Rochine's childish behavior and attachment to Jill "apostle-like"? Was the Count's refusal to sacrifice his daughter "apostle-like"? Was Irvine's little talk with Sonia "apostle-like"? Apostles are individuals, they're not all the same.

There is a chapter in Dark Horse volume 34

Episode.

Every apostle and their mother is present in apostle form for this one

As you might have noticed, Rakshas doesn't fight on the front lines. That's not his style. He's more the sneaky type. I feel bad having to point this out. Anyway, because we didn't see him doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything. We do know for sure that he was there too, since he's shown later on.

-Silat DH Vol 18

Like Walter said, you're taking Silat's line out of its context.

Rakshas cloak is of the same style craftmanship as Skull Knight and Guts. This may be Miura Sensei subltly classifying a character's allegiance.

Rakshas doesn't wear a cloak. His garment covers him from head to toe, more like a robe than anything else. The only similarity is that they're black. Which is not really a connexion. Hinting at an allegiance? You can't possibly be serious. Also, are you and this guy in cahoots or something? If not you should probably get acquainted, sounds like you're made for each other.

It is this cape's properties as an item of magical or astral construction that grants Rakshas his non-human stealth and shapeshifting skills

It looks like Rakshas can dislocate his bones. That's not really shape-shifting. Also, what grants him his third eye? The cape too? :schierke:

in the same fashion that the berserker armor grants guts berserker fighting talent, or Serpico's cape allows him to use its astral properties
to accomplish astounding feats of agility.

Ok, so you pretty obviously don't understand how these items work, as the two follow very different mechanics (none of which could possibly apply to what Rakshas does). What a surprise!

Note - Serpico's cloak appears differently due to the nature of the cloak, wind sylphs in my opinion. The black and tattered cloaks reflect the nature of the wearers and if it is the case, the type of astral presence present in their gear, certainly sylphs of an unstable yet powerful substance.

It was stated when Schierke handed out the magic weapons and gifts that they were powered by
sylphs

Sylphs are the most basic elements of the wind. Fire has Salamanders, Water has Undines. We don't know yet for Earth, but it'll likely be Gnomes. There are no other elements. The Berserk's armor works using a completely different mechanic (there are detailed posts explaining it if you're interested, they should be easy to find with a simple search). And of course cloaks have nothing to do with anything. Serpico has a magic cloak, sure, but Isidro has a magic dagger for example. And Guts' cloak isn't magical at all, nor was it ever.

Please inform yourself better in order to avoid making incorrect statements.

there are many types its not a simple as earth, wind, fire, water although these are the four pricncipal elements. Consider the god of Mud and Rotting trees or whatever it was she dug up in Qlipoth.

The Lord of the Rotten Roots was associated with Earth & Water. Simple as that. No, there aren't "many types", and yes, it's as simple as Earth, Water, Fire, Wind. There are four elements.

When Griffith's new officers all assemble to pledge loyalty in volume 22 they speak of being guided by and oracle. In Rakshas' case I believe
the 'oracle' is Skull Knight

No, "oracle" here doesn't refer to a person but to a prophecy. Specifically, to the dream featuring the Falcon of Light that "everybody" experienced in volume 17. We saw a few versions of it.

SK is shown observing Griffith and Zodd fly off after Griffith's rebirth. Tracking their movements, he is.

No he's not. He's just standing there, gazing at who knows what. The ruins of Albion? Who knows. Anyway, nothing indicates he's tracking Griffith & Zodd's movements, and he certainly isn't around when they show up at Godot's place.

Rakshas is an exile from the bakiraka clan, a clan of the most talented assassins and covert operatives in the world of Berserk. Although we
are given little so far to as to why Rakshas was exiled it is my intuition that tells me he doesnt have the cold heart of an assassin and refused to carry out an assassination he was ordered to do, leading to his exile.

How about being exiled because of being an apostle? Of having sacrificed someone from the clan? Or for any other reason that is either related to him being an apostle or would eventually lead to him becoming one. That makes sense. Have you ever actually looked at Rakshas? His looks, his attitude, his behavior? What you're saying sounds like a joke.

If she is so skilled as to get one such as Griffith to take notice and act, then it stands to reason any powerful apostle would view her as a dangerous threat as well. My theory is, this isnt the first time she's struck fear or uncertainty into demons and apostles and perhaps Ganishka among others viewed Flora the same as Griffith...

That reasoning is tragically flawed. Griffith had knowledge that no mere apostle could have had, and he sent quite the team of heavy hitters against her, not something anyone else could have managed. It's all fan fiction anyways, none of what you say has any basis in reality.

Member assigned for job or assigned to lead a group for job? Rakshas.

This is nonsensical. Rakshas had already been exiled from the Bakiraka by then. And in the manga they haven't been working for Ganishka for all that long either. The clan itself was exiled long ago and was trying to regain a position by courting Ganishka's favor.

I believe Rakshas has a conscience and frankly, doesnt enjoy killing as a job, not detached and cold



The face of a humane, caring, gentle man. That warm-hearted look!

The Tapasa often address Silat as 'Young Master'. It follows that 'Old Master' whoever that may be is the current leader of the Bakiraka

No. That's just a word denoting his status. He is the Bakiraka's only leader as far as we know. And he's young, so they use that word. That's all.

I think Flora saw what I'm seeing or hoping to see in Rakshas -an extremely talented and powerful misfit with nowhere to go

:ganishka:

some similarities in the helmets and face masks.

I don't see any similarities whatsoever between Rakshas' mask and the Skull Knight's helmet (or the Berserk's armor's helmet).

From this I will make an assumption Skull Knight and Rakshas become acquainted through Flora.

Still baseless fan fiction.

Rakshas is spying on the band of the hawk at SK's bidding.

What makes you think the Skull Knight needs a spy? He's never had any problems obtaining information before as far as we know. Also, do you seriously think a plan that grotesque would work? That Griffith or the other apostles wouldn't know? Get real.

like Schierke has taught Guts party the skill of thought transference, I believe Rakshas and Skull Knight
communicate using this method. This seems to be an elementary skill for those with knowledge of the astral realm which SK certainly has.

They use Schierke's hair tied to their fingers to communicate. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. And it doesn't work halfway across the world either.

Rakshas hitching a ride on a (imo) clueless Zodd

There's no way in hell Zodd didn't know Rakshas was stuck under his wing.

communicating to SK through flow of Od: (now is the time to strike at Femto!) when Femto kneels seems to fit logically for the timing of that sequence and reinforces my theory.

1) What makes you think the Skull Knight needed any help with that?
2) Seeing how much of a success it was and what Femto tells the Skull Knight afterwards rather disproves your assertion.

This sequence was also not the first time Zodd appears to be clueless to Rakshas presence. When Zodd was sitting on that rock guarding
Griffith at the camp at one point, Rakshas is close by and handles a situation quickly and quietly with an apparently oblivious Zodd as to
what was happening behind him.

Zodd was clearly not oblivious as to what was happening (i.e. Rakshas killed Bakiraka assassins).

Femto kneels, SK appears, Zodd attacks with fury. Rashas... disappears. He does not assist Zodd with defense of Femto. Why?

Femto didn't need protection.

Why doesnt he help SK then? It is not possible for Rakshas to harm Femto only SK has the capability to do this.

Baseless assertion. From SK's own words we know the Dragon Slayer may be able to hurt members of the God Hand. Also, he could have distracted Femto, impeded Zodd so that SK could focus on Femto, etc. In short he could have assisted in many ways. There's simply no basis to what you're saying.

Why dont we see where Rakshas goes after the sequence? We didnt see where he was beforehand either. Hes Rakshas. Probably snuck a ride down same way he got up.

Probably nothing. We just don't know.

Being exiled from the bakiraka is a blaring example

We don't know the details of why he was exiled. It could have been because he was too bloodthirsty and unethical. There's no basis to anything you've said in this thread.

I mean Rakshas was first introduced in volume 22 in April of 2008.

Rakshas was first introduced in episode 186, prepublished in issue #16 of Young Animal in 2001.

Apostle or not, 'Rakshas is up to something' is the sense a lot of readers get.

He may have his own agenda, sure. And he certainly has his quirks. But that doesn't mean he isn't an apostle.

He just not on the same page as Locus, Irvine, Grunbeld who all come across as yes men without much potential for intrigue.

I don't think you're being fair to them. They're also each got their own personality and reasons for doing what they do.

Offline vEnTh

Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 03:32:41 AM »
@ Walter

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So, brass tacks here: You believe Rakshas is a spy for forces of good—the evidence being that he wears a black cloak, and that he's never been shown on-page to be killing someone. But your pièce de résistance is that we don't know FOR SURE that he's not. Am I right so far?

1: Never been shown killing someone.
2: Never been shown taken apostle form.
3: Miura wants the reader to ponder Rakshas rather than show his actions outright.

If you want to break it down to the most basic of reasons and completely dismiss any conversation over what information has been given then those are three are what I hang my hat on. One and Two are facts, period.

The third reason is a fact, but what that will lead to no one can say for sure except Miura himself.

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What do you think was happening in those trees after Rakshas sneaks up behind those Kushan assassins?

He gives the signal to his unit to kill the enemy unit. That is what I took away from the panels.

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Your larger point is that Rakshas "has a conscience" and doesn't kill just anybody, which you then compare to Guts' lament of Adonis and Gambino. So, Rakshas killing these Kushan assassins would be like when Guts killed Adonis? That's utterly absurd.

No you completely misunderstand what I was trying to show. I was trying to show that perhaps as skilled as both of these combatants are, they never do so for sport. Its a virtue Guts has followed and I speculated maybe Rakshas does too. This is speculation nation no? Fair game is fair game for Guts and I speculated this as a trait of Rakshas.

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I'm not really going in circles at all. My very first statement to you was that Rakshas is a puzzle we aren't meant to solve yet.

Well, its not much of a puzzle if you state with absolute certainty Rakshas is an apostle who is just never shown in action to enhance his mystique. I guess thats that.

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But to answer your question, no I saw nothing similar in the Berserk Armor or Skull Knight's armor that reminded me of Rakshas.

You know that I specifically asked to just look at the details on the artwork of the cloaks and capes. and i mentioned the mask because SK and Rakshas have been compared many times because of their head wear similarities. I never said anything about the berserker armor or SK armor.

@ Aaz

No welcome to the forum? My first post and its completely condescending and dismissive. Well if thats the example you wish to convey Ill follow your lead.

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So you believe Rakshas can't bring himself to take a life, not even that of an animal, and that he isn't an apostle. Look at the image below.

I never said that in the way you are making it out. In those panels his unit is protecting Griffith. Fair game.

Why are you bringing up the other Irvine and the others to me? I dont know what old discussions took place but Irvine, Grunbeld, Locus and Rakshas were introduced I was sure this was going to be Griffiths new generation of badasses. I personally never doubted Irvine, Grunbeld and Locus, but over time I have suspected Rakshas is something else.

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Now only Rakshas is left, and incredibly some people still do not accept the obvious. I hope when his apostle form is finally revealed you come back here and apologize for this thread.

Why are you so bitter lol. No, if it turns out Rakshas is what you claim. I will not come back here to apologize for speculating on speculation nation. If however you are wrong, feel free to come back here and apologize if it suits you.

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By the way, I take it these guys are just sleeping according to you? You would say that Rakshas just left them there so they could have a nap? Even though they get trampled by Locus and his men shortly afterwards? Do you not realize to what extent you're lying to yourself here?

Taking a nap? no. Rendered unconscious? maybe. I see no wounds, blood, or severed limbs. Dead? maybe.

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Rakshas' actions so far, regardless of what he told Griffith, have been as loyal as that of any other apostle. His very introduction scene had him protect Griffith from an attack by the Tapasa.

Regarding that introduction scene. Zodd doing his patented slice and dice. Locus does the polearm head shishkebab. Grunbeld stabs and flattens and burns anything in range. All run of the mill scrub soldiers.

When the Tapasa attack by far the most formidable threat in the scene, Rakshas goes completely against the grain of the others. He doesnt even TRY to kill them. He just makes them look inept and tells them he will play with them. Yeah, could just be his mannerisms or personality. Or he could be approaching these foes in this manner for other reasons. We dont know.

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Because it wasn't. It was more along the lines of undermining the Bakiraka's willingness to follow Ganishka's orders, furthering their doubts and reticence about it.

I think its a little more complex than that. Id elaborate, but i dont see the point in this thread.

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You don't get to decide what is or isn't "apostle-like".

Sure I do. Throughout this series, by and large, all the apostles before, during and after the eclipse have certain qualities about them. I think apostles are chosen due to certain traits in life. Extreme fear, hatred, love, jealousy, greed, longing, desire and other powerful emotions they were not able to fulfill and in their greatest moment of tragedy connected to these strong feelings the godhand are summoned to those destined to carry a Beherit.

A common theme among apostles, especially when transformed is  aggression, arrogance, selfishness, bloodlust and a complete disregard for the value of human life. You mentioned a few exceptions that contradict this. This actually helps me out because I think Rakshas apostle or not will eventually fall in with the few you mentioned as a being still capable of remorse for A human being.

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As you might have noticed, Rakshas doesn't fight on the front lines. That's not his style. He's more the sneaky type. I feel bad having to point this out. Anyway, because we didn't see him doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything. We do know for sure that he was there too, since he's shown later on.

Scroll up to the first picture you posted. that is Rakshas behind the enemy unit leader. In the preceding panels it is clear the leader is well protected riding in the center of his unit. I feel bad having to point this out but that is indeed the front line. For a refresher Check it out in Volume 23, EpIsOdE 193

Also to the battle you referenced, we didnt see him doing anything. So we dont know what he was up to. I dont. And neither do you.

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Rakshas doesn't wear a cloak. His garment covers him from head to toe, more like a robe than anything else. The only similarity is that they're black. Which is not really a conneXion. Hinting at an allegiance? You can't possibly be serious. Also, are you and this guy in cahoots or something? If not you should probably get acquainted, sounds like you're made for each other.


In several places i tried to specify cloak and or cape referring to the garb. Instead of playing semantics to sling insults, i thought you would make the connexion.  :guts:

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It looks like Rakshas can dislocate his bones. That's not really shape-shifting. Also, what grants him his third eye? The cape too? schierke
Bones and a third eye are under that cape. Because you said so right? Or were you granted a 3rd eye with comic book x-ray vision? Sorry I forgot bone dislocation and shape-shifting were declared separate events at the last congressional comic-con hearing.

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Ok, so you pretty obviously don't understand how these items work, as the two follow very different mechanics (none of which could possibly apply to what Rakshas does). What a surprise!

No Im not a magic user Im the warrior type like Guts so I dont understand the mechanics fully. I thought these items were imbued with spells and spirits from the astral world.

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Sylphs are the most basic elements of the wind. Fire has Salamanders, Water has Undines. We don't know yet for Earth, but it'll likely be Gnomes. There are no other elements. The Berserk's armor works using a completely different mechanic (there are detailed posts explaining it if you're interested, they should be easy to find with a simple search). And of course cloaks have nothing to do with anything. Serpico has a magic cloak, sure, but Isidro has a magic dagger for example. And Guts' cloak isn't magical at all, nor was it ever. Please inform yourself better in order to avoid making incorrect statements.


Yes sir. but you left out the part where I suggested it may be a storyline hint due to similarities in artwork, and also admitted it may have nothing to do with anything and just the artists drawing style.

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The Lord of the Rotten Roots was associated with Earth & Water. Simple as that. No, there aren't "many types", and yes, it's as simple as Earth, Water, Fire, Wind. There are four elements.

So if the Lord of Rotten Roots was a combination, and still considered a Lord, it would stand to reason there are many lords of many combinations correct?

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What makes you think the Skull Knight needs a spy? He's never had any problems obtaining information before as far as we know. Also, do you seriously think a plan that grotesque would work? That Griffith or the other apostles wouldn't know? Get real.

Is this how you reacted when your friend posted a thread about Rakshas whole plot was to hitch a ride on SK and spy on him? Femto has never had any problems obtaining information before as far as we know. And SK wouldnt know? Get Real?


OMG enough. I obviously unintentionally insulted you to the core with a post i thought would be the right fit, speculation nation, for my very first post. You seem to be invested into this story as your own personal bible with factual basis in real life. Im going to take a snack break, maybe you should take your kelpie for a walk or do whatever and relax a bit.

Im a fan who loves the story and wanted to join the forum thats all.

Offline Draculoid

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 04:20:37 AM »
Haha excellent first posts Venth and welcome to the forums  :guts:. Great to see such LIVELY Berserk discussion.

I can't exactly agree with you on your theory but you've definitely gathered every shred of evidence (or otherwise) you could find on the matter and I applaud you for that! Rakshas possibly being a spy or good or what have you has definitely been an idea tossed around before but never quite to the degree you've taken and articulated it. I personally would just feel a little let down if he turned out being SK or a good guy. For how creepy we've seen him be so far I'm expecting a rather twisted Berserk story spun around his character.
Where did I go wrong? I’ve got a sneaking suspicion it ain’t over. A kindred connivance, I’m ripped and in ruins

Offline vEnTh

Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 06:13:50 AM »
Haha excellent first posts Venth and welcome to the forums  :guts:. Great to see such LIVELY Berserk discussion.

I can't exactly agree with you on your theory but you've definitely gathered every shred of evidence (or otherwise) you could find on the matter and I applaud you for that! Rakshas possibly being a spy or good or what have you has definitely been an idea tossed around before but never quite to the degree you've taken and articulated it. I personally would just feel a little let down if he turned out being SK or a good guy. For how creepy we've seen him be so far I'm expecting a rather twisted Berserk story spun around his character.

Draculoid! ...thank you for being cordial its like I walked into a forum eclipse so far.

I tried to read through a lot of the rakshas posts before i wrote this and I have to say one thing I totally disagree with is that Rakshas is SK.

I am of the opinion that if Rakshas is not already a spy for SK, then he could be a turncoat to Griffith and Co. at some point. Lets face it compared to the force hes up against Guts could use another powerful friend or two!

...speaking of which what a nice addition Casca would be to the group if she regains her memory and sanity.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 11:29:38 AM »
1: Never been shown killing someone.
2: Never been shown taken apostle form.
3: Miura wants the reader to ponder Rakshas rather than show his actions outright.

If you want to break it down to the most basic of reasons and completely dismiss any conversation over what information has been given then those are three are what I hang my hat on. One and Two are facts, period.

It's pretty sad that this is all you hang on. Not having seen Rakshas' apostle form yet is definitely not an indication of anything and doesn't add any shred of support to your theory. Like you've been told, we hadn't seen Irvine's apostle form until recently. We'll eventually see Rakshas' as well. One of them had to be the last one to be revealed, after all.

As for not being explicitly shown killing people, you're just being obtuse. He kills them with stealth, poison and such, because that's the kind of character he is. So we've seen his handywork after the fact and off-screen so far, but it's completely clear to anyone willing to see it that he's in fact killing people. You even admit it yourself below, backpedaling from "he's never killed anyone" to "he never kills gratuitously", which is just conjecture based on incorrect assumptions.

The third reason is a fact, but what that will lead to no one can say for sure except Miura himself.

It's not a fact, it's a belief you have. There's little doubt as to what Rakshas does most of the time. There are occasions where his actions are mysterious, but that's punctual, not permanent. When we see fallen guards and Rakshas is in the vicinity, we're to assume he's killed them.

He gives the signal to his unit to kill the enemy unit. That is what I took away from the panels.

While he hides his eye not to see the bloodshed. He's just so sensitive.

This is speculation nation no? Fair game is fair game for Guts and I speculated this as a trait of Rakshas.

Speculation Nation doesn't bullshit is alright. To be worthwhile speculation has to be based on solid facts and has to follow proper logic. That's not the case with your assertions.

i mentioned the mask because SK and Rakshas have been compared many times because of their head wear similarities.

I've never heard them being compared before last week. It's kind of ridiculous, honestly.

No welcome to the forum?

Why, did that hurt your feelings? Or did that happen when I pointed out how flawed your reasoning is?

I never said that in the way you are making it out. In those panels his unit is protecting Griffith. Fair game.

You've been insisting from the beginning on the fact he's never shown killing anyone, not even animals. You're just backpedaling here. And your fan fiction is about him refusing to kill a target he'd been ordered to assassinate. Also, no, in those panels they aren't protecting Griffith at all. They're cleaning up the disseminated troops that weren't at the main battle. You should probably re-read those scenes.

Why are you bringing up the other Irvine and the others to me?

To show you that you're no different from the others that came before you, and that you should get a clue about what's going on.

No, if it turns out Rakshas is what you claim. I will not come back here to apologize for speculating on speculation nation.

It's for wasting people's time with stupid ideas that go hard against what's shown in the manga that you should apologize. And don't worry, I didn't actually expect you to do so. People like you never do.

Regarding that introduction scene. Zodd doing his patented slice and dice. Locus does the polearm head shishkebab. Grunbeld stabs and flattens and burns anything in range. All run of the mill scrub soldiers.

When the Tapasa attack by far the most formidable threat in the scene, Rakshas goes completely against the grain of the others. He doesnt even TRY to kill them. He just makes them look inept and tells them he will play with them. Yeah, could just be his mannerisms or personality. Or he could be approaching these foes in this manner for other reasons. We dont know.

How about he's doing it in this manner because he was once part of their clan but was exiled from it? Isn't that completely obvious? Isn't that all the reason he'd need? And also, who's to say he'd have been able to dispatch them that easily? As you pointed out, the other apostles killed random soldiers effortlessly. Silat and the Tapasa aren't random soldiers. Rakshas countered the Tapasa's attack, 2 vs 1. That's already something given that they themselves can also lay waste to average soldiers without breaking a sweat.

I think its a little more complex than that. Id elaborate, but i dont see the point in this thread.

Right, I'm sure you don't.

Sure I do.

No, you don't. And that's the final word on it. You don't have any authority on the matter, nor any legitimacy to speak on the subject, given the little understanding of the series you seem to have.

Throughout this series, by and large, all the apostles before, during and after the eclipse have certain qualities about them.

Apostles are individuals and most of them wildly differ in style and personality.

A common theme among apostles, especially when transformed is  aggression, arrogance, selfishness, bloodlust and a complete disregard for the value of human life.

We haven't seen Rakshas transformed yet.

You mentioned a few exceptions that contradict this.

I mentioned some of the most prominent apostles in the series, and it was a non-exhaustive list. I could have added Irvine or even Zodd.

This actually helps me out because I think Rakshas apostle or not will eventually fall in with the few you mentioned as a being still capable of remorse for A human being.

I think it's quite obvious that Rakshas is a unique apostle in his own regard. Much like Irvine is one, or Locus, or the Beherit-Apostle, and so on. But I don't see how that helps your fan fiction in any way.

Scroll up to the first picture you posted. that is Rakshas behind the enemy unit leader. In the preceding panels it is clear the leader is well protected riding in the center of his unit. I feel bad having to point this out but that is indeed the front line.  For a refresher Check it out in Volume 23, EpIsOdE 193

:ganishka: I know you're just trying to look cool by mimicking my tone here, but it's unfortunate you have to do so while looking so obviously clueless. Do you know what "front line" means? Those guys Rakshas ambushed were wayward troops that hadn't been dealt with during the main battle. Rakshas and his men were cleaning up the leftovers. He himself commented on not having fought yet. You're embarrassing yourself.

Also to the battle you referenced, we didnt see him doing anything. So we dont know what he was up to. I dont. And neither do you.

Yeah, the context provides no clue whatsoever as to what happened. Uh huh. :schierke:

In several places i tried to specify cloak and or cape referring to the garb. Instead of playing semantics to sling insults, i thought you would make the connexion.  :guts:

Your lack of comprehension is worrying. The garments just aren't of the same type. What's so hard to understand about this? A cloak isn't a robe. Different words have different meanings.

Bones and a third eye are under that cape. Because you said so right?

Uh... We see his eyes through the holes in his mask. I thought you knew. And the sound effects when he twists his body evoke the dislocation of bones.

Sorry I forgot bone dislocation and shape-shifting were declared separate events at the last congressional comic-con hearing.

I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should build your vocabulary a bit? They're just not the same thing at all man, not the same connotations or implications.

No Im not a magic user Im the warrior type like Guts

:ganishka:

so I dont understand the mechanics fully. I thought these items were imbued with spells and spirits from the astral world.

Serpico's cloak & sword and Isidro's dagger are imbued with elements. But the Berserk's armor is another thing altogether. There are posts explaining it if you're interested, like I mentioned earlier.

So if the Lord of Rotten Roots was a combination, and still considered a Lord, it would stand to reason there are many lords of many combinations correct?

Don't focus on his title too much, "lord" has little meaning here. But yeah, there could be (in fact I'll go ahead and say that there definitely are) other elemental spirits that are related to combination of elements.

Is this how you reacted when your friend posted a thread about Rakshas whole plot was to hitch a ride on SK and spy on him?

I believe I was actually the one who first proposed that idea when the episode came out. But I didn't see it as hitching a ride so much as just following SK through the portal, and I had doubts about the stealth aspect because I don't think the Skull Knight would be oblivious to it. Griff knows how I feel about it, of course. That being said, that idea has a lot more merit than yours, and for many reasons. There could be a use to Rakshas following SK around that'd go beyond obtaining information that Femto probably doesn't need, like an assassination on someone (SK himself or maybe the Elf King, who knows) a sabotage attempt, or opening a gateway to a protected place like Elfhelm might be for a group of hostile invaders. There are plenty of possibilities. It'd be a cool way to provoke a dangerous situation in a haven like Elfhelm and an infiltration in enemy territory would fit the character of Rakshas. But at the end of the day it's just a cool hypothesis without a solid basis, and no one's denying it.

I obviously unintentionally insulted you to the core with a post i thought would be the right fit, speculation nation, for my very first post. You seem to be invested into this story as your own personal bible with factual basis in real life.

Please don't project your feelings on me. I don't care about you personally, I'm just correcting what you say, not only for your benefit but also that of anyone else who'll read this thread. I'm sorry if that's hard on you, I'm sure you've put efforts into it, but I can't lie just to make you feel good. And given that you're calling yourself a "warrior-type like Guts" and are so into your theory that you're refusing to acknowledge the obvious from the manga, I'd say you're the one who's a little too "invested" here.

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 02:12:49 PM »
I second what Draculoid mentioned above. It's a fascinating discussion, no doubt and welcome aboard Venth. I'm actually itching to go back and re-read those specific volumes after reading this topic.
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Offline Walter

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 02:15:22 PM »
I'm actually itching to go back and re-read those specific volumes after reading this topic.
You probably should if you found this fanfic of a topic fascinating.

Personally, I think there are far more interesting talks to be had about Rakshas' background, based on things that have already been implied in the story. Instead we're speculating over our LACK of information.

In volume 27, Rakshas explains the Daka chamber to Silat in intimate detail, as if he were already familiar with it (in fact, the actual translation is "Interesting, isn't it?", so Dark Horse kinda goofed with this important line). Silat then asks what he knows about it. Rakshas doesn't give a direct answer of course, he just laughs and says that Ganishka is no man, but a demon.

But it makes us wonder what the relationship between this chamber and Rakshas is. It could be a number of things. The least interesting of which is that he was told about it before the mission. The most interesting being that he has a history with Ganishka and this chamber, and possibly the Daka. The teeth on his mask also more closely resemble the Daka's teeth than what Venth was saying earlier, about SK's helm.

This is also why I believe Rakshas wanted to be there to witness the final moments of Ganishka in volume 34. It's always been my retort when people say he was there to secretly spy on things, or to follow SK. There's little to no reason for those explanations, whereas in the above scene, there's potentially groundwork already laid between those two characters.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline vEnTh

Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 07:55:18 PM »
You probably should if you found this fanfic of a topic fascinating.

Personally, I think there are far more interesting talks to be had about Rakshas' background, based on things that have already been implied in the story. Instead we're speculating over our LACK of information.

In volume 27, Rakshas explains the Daka chamber to Silat in intimate detail, as if he were already familiar with it (in fact, the actual translation is "Interesting, isn't it?", so Dark Horse kinda goofed with this important line). Silat then asks what he knows about it. Rakshas doesn't give a direct answer of course, he just laughs and says that Ganishka is no man, but a demon.

But it makes us wonder what the relationship between this chamber and Rakshas is. It could be a number of things. The least interesting of which is that he was told about it before the mission. The most interesting being that he has a history with Ganishka and this chamber, and possibly the Daka. The teeth on his mask also more closely resemble the Daka's teeth than what Venth was saying earlier, about SK's helm.

This is also why I believe Rakshas wanted to be there to witness the final moments of Ganishka in volume 34. It's always been my retort when people say he was there to secretly spy on things, or to follow SK. There's little to no reason for those explanations, whereas in the above scene, there's potentially groundwork already laid between those two characters.

Walter Ill tell you what. This series is so detailed and epic in its scope that many of our interpretations may very well be partially right in some aspects. Rather than pick apart what you say here and dismiss it as baseless or fanfic, Im going to try and support your theory in the spirit of fun discussion.

Bear in mind Im new and there are years worth of posts so forgive me if this has been presented.

When you get a moment, grab volume 34 and skim through the scene where rakshas is on zodd's wing observing.

The very next episode 'Backlighting' may be placed where it is for more than what appears on the surface and what Im going to suggest fits your theory very well. Note it begins immediately after raskshas reveals himself and the ePiSoDe title 'Backlighting' may have more than one meaning.

It details Ganishka's childhood briefly and summarizes how he came to power. One thing to please file away is how Ganishka murders his father the king and makes it look like an accident. He has an underling use a poison dart sending the elephant/mammoth mount into a frenzy which results in the king being thrown to his death. The underling is irrelevant here, he kills him right after. However Im sure that technique rings a bell.

Now, revisit the panels where the king is shown to return for a banquet. His now grown son attempts an assassination on Ganishka with poisoned drink and calls for those at the banquet to stab Ganishka to death with spears.

Look again at the son, seated and nervous before this takes place. Nothing particularly distinguishing, but on his headdress there is a round bauble in the center of the forehead. Perhaps this might remind you of someone.

The dying Ganishka grabs his Beherit and it is shown this is where his pact to become an apostle is made and his son is the sacrifice being assaulted by minor demons trying to consume their new sacrifice.

We arent shown these demons finishing the job, just the struggle. By now, Im guessing you see where im going with this.

Sacrifices have escaped in the past. Guts, Casca, and thought not proven it is considered by many SK was once branded.

Consider, some elements here and a possible conclusion:

- the placement of this EpIsOde, is right after Rakshas reveals his face hanging from Zodd's wing. And the title 'Backlighting' shedding light on the background of perhaps more than one character?
- the poison dart method used by Ganishka to get his father thrown from mammoth to his death is a method used by another character.
- the style of clothing Ganishka's father, Ganishka himself, and Ganishka's son wear. Many eyes are a common motif among all three. In particular note the son with the single third eyeball like bauble on his forehead.  :rakshas:

So you see what I'm proposing here is a bit of a leap in some ways but it also fits your ideas very nicely.

The leap? Yes Rakshas is that son in those panels.
- As others have in the past, Raskhas somehow escaped the branding ritual. Evasion seems to be his greatest skill after all.
- Perhaps those small demons didnt finish the job. We've seen guts physically covered with those things and shake them off like fleas.
- If this character is in fact Rakshas, it becomes extremely clear why Rakshas goes to such length to show Silat the abomination, To divulge that the Emperor is truly a demon to Silat, and to be there to witness the events from Zodd's wing.
- It would certainly explain the exile, an attempt on the emperors life.

His old man committed the ultimate betrayal against him and he's determined to participate and see to his downfall first hand. It also explains his intimate knowledge of all that seems to be taking place, its a family matter.

The things that I cant explain or wonder about are these:

- Was Rakshas branded and if so how can it not be known by his current company. Perhaps Griffith knows and doesn't care as he is using Rakshas and his knowledge to for his conquering of Ganishka.
- If hes branded he doesnt seem to display pain when near the other apostles in Volume 22 at his introduction or hanging on Zodd's wing. Perhaps a talisman like Guts and Casca have could help him mask this?
- If he was branded, hes a member of the insterstice and a 'struggler'. Maybe this is why he appears so rarely and in general keeps his distance from his colleagues, he has much to conceal.

I would like to hear you thoughts on this Walter Im hoping you have an open mind however this line of thought means something else as well and that Rakshas is not an apostle so Im expecting a thorough debunking but you do seem to be reasonable. And bear in mind this is not 'fanfic' Im just trying to make sense of the panels and what they may mean. Its speculation or my part again not presenting this as fact but Im trying to back it up with solid points.

I fully expect lieutenant admin :carcus: to chime in and re-inform me that Im an ill-informed, grotesque plebian who cant read and doesnt understand that the volumes are printed japanese style and I read from the front or whatever but I had fun writing it so come at me bro.

enjoy  :guts:




Offline Walter

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2012, 08:35:42 PM »
However Im sure that technique rings a bell.
Sure, it reminds me of the Bakiraka assassin shown in volume 10. The little guy. That's what you meant, right?  :slan: Because that guy seemed pretty proficient at it, so we can assume that using darts like that isn't out of the ordinary among assassins. Meaning, nothing special here.

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Look again at the son, seated and nervous before this takes place. Nothing particularly distinguishing, but on his headdress there is a round bauble in the center of the forehead. Perhaps this might remind you of someone.
Are you saying he's hiding a third eye underneath that thing? It's three snakes gathering around a circle, and it's also higher on his head than Rakshas eye, so I'm not sure why you're using this as a piece of evidence. What about everyone else in the series whose foreheads we can't see fully?

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his son is the sacrifice being assaulted by minor demons trying to consume their new sacrifice.
Those aren't "minor demons," it's the vortex of souls coming to claim its prize. See volume 3 for a full explanation of how sacrifices work, and what the vortex of souls is.

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And the title 'Backlighting' shedding light on the background of perhaps more than one character?
I'm utterly floored that you would claim this as a piece of evidence...

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- the poison dart method used by Ganishka to get his father thrown from mammoth to his death is a method used by another character.
Right, the Bakiraka assassin. The little guy, right? That's what you meant?  :iva:

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The leap? Yes Rakshas is that son in those panels.
Because of his headdress? That's pretty flimsy, man...

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- Perhaps those small demons didnt finish the job. We've seen guts physically covered with those things and shake them off like fleas.
It's the vortex of souls, and Guts escaped by using his cannon—once. He didn't shake them off like fleas.

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- It would certainly explain the exile, an attempt on the emperors life.
Hold it. Stop.

This is by far the most convoluted nonsense you've concocted yet. You're saying that after the son attempted to  kill Ganishka, and somehow escaped the vortex of souls, he either a) was discovered and then exiled (uhh, why not just executed, if it was learned that his son was still alive?) or b) later joined the Bakiraka and was then exiled after they learned that years ago he had attempted to kill the emperor. Seriously, this is just nonsense at this point.

The Bakiraka clan exiled Rakshas, not Ganishka. And the clan itself had been exiled, so there's no reason they'd exile someone who attempted to assassinate the emperor. They weren't attempting to mend things until this most recent war. Before that, the Bakiraka were a wandering clan of outsiders.

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It also explains his intimate knowledge of all that seems to be taking place, its a family matter.
It doesn't explain anything, the least of which what I initially proposed—his knowledge of the Daka chamber. Ganishka wasn't an apostle yet when his son lived with him, so likely didn't have the knowledge needed to create, or even order to create, the Daka chamber. It also doesn't explain Rakshas key characteristic—his third eye. Unless you're going to mention that bauble again, which doesn't explain anything at all.

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- Was Rakshas branded and if so how can it not be known by his current company.
You should have stopped writing once you realized this yourself.

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And bear in mind this is not 'fanfic' Im just trying to make sense of the panels and what they may mean.
Your trouble is that when you encounter a logical brick wall, you simply ignore it and make up a new direction, convinced you're still on course.

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I fully expect lieutenant admin :carcus: to chime in and re-inform me that Im an ill-informed, grotesque plebian who cant read and doesnt understand that the volumes are printed japanese style and I read from the front or whatever but I had fun writing it so come at me bro.
:shakes head: This is a really ignorant attitude to take, man. Not understanding the vortex of souls shows a severe lack of knowledge of fundamental aspects of the series. If we're bothering to point out your mistakes, you should pay attention rather than act impertinent.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline TheBranded1

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2012, 09:37:13 PM »

- Was Rakshas branded and if so how can it not be known by his current company. Perhaps Griffith knows and doesn't care as he is using Rakshas and his knowledge to for his conquering of Ganishka.





Then why Rakshas didn't feel any pain or bleeding when he was in front of Griffith or any other apostles? :???: :???:
Oh yeah, he went to Flora and got a seal just like Guts did :ganishka:

Offline vEnTh

Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 05:59:31 AM »
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Sure, it reminds me of the Bakiraka assassin shown in volume 10. The little guy. That's what you meant, right?  slan Because that guy seemed pretty proficient at it, so we can assume that using darts like that isn't out of the ordinary among assassins. Meaning, nothing special here.

Nope. meant rakshas himself in the war for the capital city of course. If you want to get down to dart semantics and poisons, id imagine the amount and type needed to send a mammoth into a frenzy is different from a 100 pound emaciated griffith but thats neither here nor there.

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Are you saying he's hiding a third eye underneath that thing? It's three snakes gathering around a circle, and it's also higher on his head than Rakshas eye, so I'm not sure why you're using this as a piece of evidence. What about everyone else in the series whose foreheads we can't see fully?

Nope wasnt saying he was hiding a third eye. I never said he had a third eye. Its ornamental and represents a spiritual concept in the far east. From Wikipedia "The third eye (also known as the inner eye) is a mystical and esoteric concept referring to a speculative invisible eye which provides perception beyond ordinary sight." Miura uses it as a recurring theme in the Kushan clothing and artwork.

'Its too high on his head' LOL?

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Those aren't "minor demons," it's the vortex of souls coming to claim its prize. See volume 3 for a full explanation of how sacrifices work, and what the vortex of souls is.

I count 9 demons in that photo. I remember the vortex of souls having a bit more mass to it, just a bit. I was likening this image to images in Volume 13 ePiSoDe "Vow of Retaliation''. One panel in particular has demons crawling all over guts who looks confused and fearful.Very similar to the panel in volume 34.

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I'm utterly floored that you would claim this as a piece of evidence...

Well lets see. A panel of Rakshas hanging upside down on Zodds wing. A panel of Ganishka. Then, right into a new ePiSoDe 'Backlighting' in which we are 'enlightened' of Ganishka's background and rise to power, and the power struggle with his son. I am utterly floored that you are utterly floored and see no possible flow, similarities or timing here.

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It's the vortex of souls, and Guts escaped by using his cannon—once. He didn't shake them off like fleas.

Irrelevant you were not looking at the volume i was referring to as stated above. And in 13, he did shake them off like fleas. No cannon.

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This is by far the most convoluted nonsense you've concocted yet. You're saying that after the son attempted to  kill Ganishka, and somehow escaped the vortex of souls, he either a) was discovered and then exiled (uhh, why not just executed, if it was learned that his son was still alive?) or b) later joined the Bakiraka and was then exiled after they learned that years ago he had attempted to kill the emperor. Seriously, this is just nonsense at this point.

The Bakiraka clan exiled Rakshas, not Ganishka. And the clan itself had been exiled, so there's no reason they'd exile someone who attempted to assassinate the emperor. They weren't attempting to mend things until this most recent war. Before that, the Bakiraka were a wandering clan of outsiders.

Ok. Follow along.

The crew at that banquet was the Bakiraka, directed by the son as shown. Assassination attempt failed. The details of the attempt cannot be concealed since the target survived. Son escaped sacrifice, there is a precedent this can happen. Bakiraka exiled into servitude, yet wish to regain their position in the empire. Forgone conclusion son is scapegoat and exiled from the Bakiraka. Emperor doesnt care they remain slaves.

Now you state of the Bakiraka "They weren't attempting to mend things until this most recent war. Before that, the Bakiraka were a wandering clan of outsiders." This is false and totally preposterous. How can I say that? Because I took the following from the glossary on this site:

From skullknight.net glossary
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A Kushan clan led by Silat, their prince. The Bakiraka are renowned as world-class assassins. However, they have been in bondage for years following their failed bid to succeed the kingdom's throne, which Ganishka ultimately took. They now serve Ganishka as vassals, but Silat has vowed to free his clan from slavery.

And you say this is by far the most convoluted nonsense ive concocted yet? Might want to edit your glossary so it fits your argument then.  :casca:

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Your trouble is that when you encounter a logical brick wall, you simply ignore it and make up a new direction, convinced you're still on course.

See above.

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:shakes head: This is a really ignorant attitude to take, man. Not understanding the vortex of souls shows a severe lack of knowledge of fundamental aspects of the series. If we're bothering to point out your mistakes, you should pay attention rather than act impertinent.

I would agree, except again you were looking at a volume I wasnt referencing. I know what the Vortex of Souls is and how the storyline there follows. And speaking of which, the vortex of souls pulls the soul out of the chopped up slug head it doesnt pick up the slug head and carry it away. The demons in 13 and 34 are physically trying to possess and enter the individual, which we know Guts has had to contend with on a regular basis.

Offline Skeleton

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2012, 11:05:23 AM »
I like where your head is at, vEnTh!  I hope you don’t mind if I hijack your crazy train train of thought, but I think I might have a way to make this theory even crazier better.  It turns out you might just be the muse I needed all along…

***

Rakshas kneeled before the figure seated on the throne.     Much had changed in the world since the last time he had reported his findings to the king of Elfhelm.  A nervous energy came over him.  Although he was the best spy in the king’s arsenal he always worried that the king would ask a question he didn’t have the answer for.  It had never happened before.  But it could.

“Stand,” the king ordered.

Rakshas stood.

The king looked like a young boy who couldn’t have been alive for longer than twelve years.  His hair was long and as black as night.  His eyes were equally dark.  But Rakshas wasn’t fooled.  He knew the king’s appearance was just an illusion created for a purpose Rakshas knew nothing about.  He had never actually seen what the king really looked like.  But the power emanating from him let everyone know he was no boy.

“What became of Ganishka?” the king asked with a slight grin.

“The White Hawk was about to destroy it when the Skull Knight arrived and attempted to trap him.  Unfortunately, the Hawk knew about the attack and used the slash to merge the worlds.”

“Perfect,” the king commented, his grin turning into a smile.

Rakshas slightly bowed his head.

“The rules have changed now.  We’re no longer forced to use mundane attempts during the rare times the God Hand appears in this world.  With the merging of the worlds we will truly be able to strike a blow to them.”

“I must say, my lord, your plan is working perfectly.  Although I do wish it would’ve been possible to finish off the White Hawk before-”

“I know, Rakshas.  I do wish the attack had succeeded.  But this too was how it was always determined to go.”

Rakshas bowed deeply, his black robe flowing about his body as if it had a life of its own.  The human followers of the White Hawk had often wondered if the robe were magical in nature.  Perhaps they were right in a way.  The robe had served as the perfect shield for his identity when he was with the army of apostles even if it didn’t contain any inherent mystical properties of its own.

The king stood from his thrown and moved down next to the spy.  In his current disguise, the king was dwarfed by Rakshas.  But he of all people knew appearances could be deceiving.

As if a command had been ordered that nobody heard, a trap door opened in front of the boy.  From within the hole a large, plain, wooden wardrobe ascended. The trap door closed, giving the wardrobe a place to sit.

“My lord?” Rakshas questioned.

“Soon enough guests of mine will be arriving.  A group of humans.”

Rakshas could only guess at what the king had been up to.  He remained silent.

 “For a thousand years I’ve been patiently working towards this moment.  The moment of our victory.  For a thousand years I’ve been at war, a concept so alien to my people.  A thousand years I’ve taken up the mantle of destruction and death in an attempt to strike down the masters of the apostles.”

The king waved his hand.  Following the command, the wardrobe opened.

Rakshas took a step back in surprise.  He couldn’t believe it.  Within the wardrobe was a suit of armor, a shield, and a sword.  The armor had a skeletal appearance, designed to look like bones complete with a skull-shaped helmet.  He recognized the items immediately.

“You’re the-“

“Yes,” the king answered,” I am the Skull Knight.  It was I who struck out at the White Hawk.”

Rakshas cursed himself for not having guessed it.

The king stood still as he looked at the armor as if inspecting it.

“So you were there watching the entire time, my lord?” Rakshas asked.

The king nodded.  “I was waiting for my time to act.  And now that time has passed.  Even though I failed in my short-term plan, our long-term plan continues on.  The God Hand will fall thanks to your actions and your sacrifice.  Your mission is complete.  You may rid yourself of your disguise and live a quiet, fulfilling life here in Elfhelm if you so desire.”

Rakshas bowed once again.

The king watched as the white mask Rakshas wore fell to the ground and shattered.  His black robe then fluttered as if a strong wind had suddenly blown through the throne room.  The robe whipped more and more violently before eventually slipping off Rakshas completely, floating through the air a short distance, and then landing softly on the floor.

Beneath the robe was no monstrous, spider-like apostle.  It was no elf.  There before the king was a dense, white body of fog.  The fog slowly moved outwards from where Rakshas had been standing a moment before.

By will alone the fog began to condense slowly.  At first it took the vague shape of a man.  Soon though it looked like any other normal Kushan. 

“It has been so long,” Rakshas said as he ran a hand through his black beard and let loose a smile, showing his dagger-like teeth.

“Welcome back to the world of the living, Emperor Ganishka,” the king said.

With a smile, the king thought of how well his plan was designed.  Ganishka was to invade Midland and attempt to fight the White Hawk.  But as anyone versed in fighting will tell you, sometimes a straightforward attack is really a feint.  A decoy attack to draw away the opponent’s attention so he won’t see the real attack coming.  In this case, Ganishka’s invasion of Midland served a hidden purpose.  That purpose was to allow himself to split off a portion of his ego, his very power, as he so often did with his magic users and use it to infiltrate the army of the Hawk under the persona of a separate apostle.

The ploy worked on two fronts.  The first is it allowed the ego of Ganishka to survive even after the Hawk used him to merge the worlds.  The second is it allowed Ganishka to completely fool not only the other apostles but also the Hawk.  After all, Ganishka himself is an apostle so neither the apostles nor the Hawk would sense anything out of the ordinary. 

His dark robe would allow him to keep his real identity a secret.  It would also keep any winds from scattering his form.  At the same time it would allow him to perform the type of feats one would expect from an apostle. 

His mask was simply a cheap trick to complete his new identity.  But it also served the practical purpose of letting him make noises that any physical apostle would make without anyone seeing his mouth move through the robe.

“I am honored that you chose me for this assignment so many years ago, my lord,” Ganishka said,” And I will be honored to perform any task you may have in the future.”

The king nodded.

Ganishka gave one last bow of the head before turning around and heading out the throne room.

“I still have one last disguise I must wear before all these separate threads come together,” the king said to the empty room.

In the flash of an eye the king shot up through the air, passing through the roof of his castle as if he were a ghost.  Upwards he flew like a shooting star until he reached a branch of the world tree, entered it, and went towards his next destination.

***

A knock rang out from Isidro’s cabin door.

“One second!” He shouted as he removed his long, black-haired wig and Moonlight Boy mask.

“Alright, you can come in now,” He finally said, running a hand through his short, red hair.

The door of his cabin slowly opened.  Guts stuck his head through.  He looked a lot better as of late.  The Sea God almost killed him, Isidro remembered, but thanks to the piskies’ dust he looked as young as ever.

“I just wanted to make sure you’re alright,” Guts said,” you’ve been locked up in your cabin for hours now.  Why don’t you come get some nice fresh air up on the deck?”

“Yeah, sure, that sounds great,” Isidro said with a big, fake smile.  “Just give me a second or two.”

Guts shook his head.  He’d never understand that boy.  Then he closed the door and headed towards the stairs leading towards the deck.

Suddenly he doubled over as if in pain, clinching his teeth.

Revenge.  Kill.  Murder.

The cold, dark voice of the Beast echoed within his head.

Guts relaxed his jaw and angrily said,” After we finish up with Casca, I promise we’ll go after Griffith.”

Good.  Good.  Capture.  The.  Hawk.

Guts felt the Beast slowly slipping back into his subconscious.  He let out a sigh of relief before suddenly stopping himself and saying to no one in particular,” Capture?  He usually wants me to kill him.”

Guts shook his head at the oddness of it before continuing to the stairs.

** *

Deep within Guts’ mind, well outside of his awareness, the Beast slowly rose to two feet with a loud groan of pain.  Pretending to be a four-legged animal for so long would be tough on anyone’s back, especially an old man’s.

He quickly removed the Beast mask he was wearing and used his hand to wipe the sweat from his bald head.  He hated it because it was so hot and stuffy.  But that was a price well worth paying to get what he wanted.

He reached into his Beast suit and pulled out a picture from his pocket.  He stared longingly at the picture as he twirled the hair of his long, black beard with his finger.

It was a picture of Griffith.  His prize.  His beauty.  The one and only thing he ever thought of.  The one person he desired with all his being.

“Soon, my love,” the man whispered lovingly to the picture,” Soon your faithful Gennon will return to your bedchamber.”

Offline Walter

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 12:06:35 PM »
Nope. meant rakshas himself in the war for the capital city of course. If you want to get down to dart semantics and poisons, id imagine the amount and type needed to send a mammoth into a frenzy is different from a 100 pound emaciated griffith but thats neither here nor there.
I got your meaning... hence the emoticon. But perhaps you could explain exactly what you're implying. The dead dart guy is Rakshas? The secret technique of dart blowing was passed down onto Rakshas?

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Nope wasnt saying he was hiding a third eye. I never said he had a third eye. Its ornamental and represents a spiritual concept in the far east. From Wikipedia "The third eye (also known as the inner eye) is a mystical and esoteric concept referring to a speculative invisible eye which provides perception beyond ordinary sight." Miura uses it as a recurring theme in the Kushan clothing and artwork.
But Rakshas does have three eyes. And they glow. You can see this as he sneaks up on the assassins in volume 23, and in his enigmatic panel in episode 302. Look more carefully.

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I count 9 demons in that photo. I remember the vortex of souls having a bit more mass to it, just a bit.
You're seeing only a portion of it... See page 148 of volume 3. There are only a dozen or so evident _in that panel_, but they are all beings from the vortex. They're dragging the son down into the vortex.

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I was likening this image to images in Volume 13 ePiSoDe "Vow of Retaliation''. One panel in particular has demons crawling all over guts who looks confused and fearful.Very similar to the panel in volume 34.
Those are ghosts. No wonder I was confused on what you meant... They have nothing to do with sacrificial ceremonies.

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Well lets see. A panel of Rakshas hanging upside down on Zodds wing. A panel of Ganishka. Then, right into a new ePiSoDe 'Backlighting'
Backlighting refers to the scene where Femto is backlit by light, and says his awesome line: "it’s in the darkness that the true light can be found."

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in which we are 'enlightened' of Ganishka's background and rise to power, and the power struggle with his son.
That's a complete misread of the episode's message. Ganishka's life was ruled by fear, and in the end his fear was realized. That's it. There's  nothing special about the "power struggle with his son." There's really nothing special at all about his son. It all happens without him realizing it, over dinner, and was a result of his life being ruled by fear.

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Irrelevant you were not looking at the volume i was referring to as stated above. And in 13, he did shake them off like fleas. No cannon.
Well, you were unclear. Guts gets attacked a lot in volume 13. And  based on your previous comment about ghosts, I think you're fundamentally mistaken on how sacrificial ceremonies work. The subject is sacrificed and then the vortex comes to claim them. In volume 13, the Hawks are sacrificed and then eaten by apostles, because it's a different type of ceremony—an occultation. Presumably the vortex came afterwards.

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The crew at that banquet was the Bakiraka, directed by the son as shown. Assassination attempt failed. The details of the attempt cannot be concealed since the target survived. Son escaped sacrifice, there is a precedent this can happen. Bakiraka exiled into servitude, yet wish to regain their position in the empire. Forgone conclusion son is scapegoat and exiled from the Bakiraka. Emperor doesnt care they remain slaves.
Your explanation makes no sense at all. Again, Rakshas was exiled by the Bakiraka, implying he was a member, not some royal that hired them.

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Now you state of the Bakiraka "They weren't attempting to mend things until this most recent war. Before that, the Bakiraka were a wandering clan of outsiders." This is false and totally preposterous. How can I say that? Because I took the following from the glossary on this site:
The glossary entry is written taking into account recent occurrences, and they only started working with Ganishka recently—just before Griffith appeared. Before that, as we learned in volume 22, and Jarif reiterates in volume 33, they were a wandering clan until this war came about.

"To you, this war is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to establish a foothold in the imperial army and repatriate to the land of your birth." -Jarif

That's recent.

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I would agree, except again you were looking at a volume I wasnt referencing. I know what the Vortex of Souls is and how the storyline there follows. And speaking of which, the vortex of souls pulls the soul out of the chopped up slug head it doesnt pick up the slug head and carry it away. The demons in 13 and 34 are physically trying to possess and enter the individual, which we know Guts has had to contend with on a regular basis.
Ghosts aren't demons.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline vEnTh

Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 05:17:06 PM »
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I got your meaning... hence the emoticon. But perhaps you could explain exactly what you're implying. The dead dart guy is Rakshas? The secret technique of dart blowing was passed down onto Rakshas?

No, the dead dart guy is irrelevant. I was just showing an identical tactic versus an identical target used by Ganishka and Rakshas and speculating out of the endless ways Ganishka could have been depicted slaying his father, Miura chose sending a mammoth into a frenzy with a tainted dart. Basically 'cause of death: fatally thrown from mammoth when it suddenly went into a frenzy' is such an obscure way to go why did Miura choose this?

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But Rakshas does have three eyes. And they glow. You can see this as he sneaks up on the assassins in volume 23, and in his enigmatic panel in episode 302. Look more carefully.

It is a very strong argument in his current form he has 3 eyes. I did read elsewhere another poster mentioned the mask could be painted so there are other theories out there however less likely.

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You're seeing only a portion of it... See page 148 of volume 3. There are only a dozen or so evident _in that panel_, but they are all beings from the vortex. They're dragging the son down into the vortex.

I admit that was my first thought as well but it just shows them attacking the son physically we dont see the extraction of the soul like we see happens to the count and I paused for a moment to think why. (did he escape)?

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Your explanation makes no sense at all. Again, Rakshas was exiled by the Bakiraka, implying he was a member, not some royal that hired them.

What I was saying was that banquet was a tribute/setup by the son and his clan the Bakiraka, the son was a member of the Bakiraka at that time not just some royal.







Offline Aazealh

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 06:15:35 PM »
Basically 'cause of death: fatally thrown from mammoth when it suddenly went into a frenzy' is such an obscure way to go why did Miura choose this?

It actually happened in the real world, and more than you think.

It is a very strong argument in his current form he has 3 eyes. I did read elsewhere another poster mentioned the mask could be painted so there are other theories out there however less likely.

And did you read the response that guy got? Yeah. Rakshas has 3 eyes, it's absolutely certain provided you haven't got serious eyesight troubles. It's baffling anybody would deny it. Oh and have you seen his arms as well?



He's an apostle.

I admit that was my first thought as well but it just shows them attacking the son physically we dont see the extraction of the soul like we see happens to the count and I paused for a moment to think why. (did he escape)?

You just don't understand how this works. The count was there as an apostle in his apostle form, and he died on the spot, so they took his soul (because he'd just died; same thing happened to Wyald). But for a living man like Guts, in the same scene, they grabbed him directly and would have pulled him in had he not shot his arm cannon. That's because he's branded. Anyway, no one's going to escape from the Vortex of Souls in the position the son was in, and especially from the place he was in at the time. Furthermore, had he somehow, miraculously managed to avoid being dragged into the Vortex, he'd still have been standing right next to Ganishka, now an apostle. In short what you're proposing is impossible, and it goes completely against what's implied in the scene. You'd think Ganishka would remember it if his son had survived his sacrifice.

What I was saying was that banquet was a tribute/setup by the son and his clan the Bakiraka, the son was a member of the Bakiraka at that time not just some royal.

The Bakiraka were disgraced and exiled before Ganishka rose to the throne as far as we know. There's no way in hell Ganishka's son would have been a member of the clan. It makes absolutely no sense, goes against what we're told and shown in the manga, and beyond all that he just doesn't fit the type at all either. Just give it up man, it's nonsensical. By the way, I hope you've realized by now that it doesn't matter who's addressing what you say, as you're going to get the same kind of replies.

Offline vEnTh

Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2012, 09:22:22 PM »
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You just don't understand how this works. The count was there as an apostle in his apostle form, and he died on the spot, so they took his soul (because he'd just died; same thing happened to Wyald). But for a living man like Guts, in the same scene, they grabbed him directly and would have pulled him in had he not shot his arm cannon. That's because he's branded. Anyway, no one's going to escape from the Vortex of Souls in the position the son was in, and especially from the place he was in at the time. Furthermore, had he somehow, miraculously managed to avoid being dragged into the Vortex, he'd still have been standing right next to Ganishka, now an apostle. In short what you're proposing is impossible, and it goes completely against what's implied in the scene. You'd think Ganishka would remember it if his son had survived his sacrifice.

I understand and completely see you point, and it is the scenario that makes the most sense. Once again, I am new and chose speculation nation to post some of these things because I thought it was appropriate, a fun place to analyze the panels and say 'hey what about this' in a fun way without being intentionally sarcastic or trolling like 'blah blah griffith and the schnoz are brothers separated at birth blah blah'.

In that spirit, we have only seen two branded people escape a sacrifice, Guts and Casca. They were saved by SK who cleaved his own way in, picked them up and got them back out. Maybe its not the first time, Sk seems to really enjoy interruping the Godhand such as at the Feast, Slan at Qliphoth, Femto on Ganishka as well as messing with them indirectly like stopping them from murdering flora and attempting to interfere with the apostle-Beherit.

Were the son to somehow escape, the most likely reason is the antics of SK. It would explain how he got out and why Ganishka didnt kill him on the spot. And my thought i posted above was in fact why the bakiraka was exiled: Of course Ganishka would remember a failed bid to seize power by his son and the bakiraka. This last point of the failed bid to seize power meshes with the glossary entry on the bakiraka.

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The Bakiraka were disgraced and exiled before Ganishka rose to the throne as far as we know. The Bakiraka were disgraced and exiled before Ganishka rose to the throne as far as we know. There's no way in hell Ganishka's son would have been a member of the clan. It makes absolutely no sense, goes against what we're told and shown in the manga,

Can you refer me to the volumes or where I can read about this? Im asking sincerely id like to read it again because i dont recall where this is indicated.

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By the way, I hope you've realized by now that it doesn't matter who's addressing what you say, as you're going to get the same kind of replies.

We'll, its mostly you and Walter to a lesser degree being hyper-aggressive and sarcastic. Draculoid disagreed but was still very nice about it and was at least found it entertaining. IncantatioN said it made him excited to look over the material again. Isnt this a great thing?

If anyone wants to participate or even sees so merit to any small piece of what I posted, they are probably not inclined to participate because of the way the admins are responding to the thread, and that is a bad thing.

People who view it your way are most likely to post because they wont have to consider the possibility of being ridiculed and belittled.






Offline Walter

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2012, 09:26:04 PM »
Can you refer me to the volumes or where I can read about this? Im asking sincerely id like to read it again because i dont recall where this is indicated.
I've already told you twice at this point: Volume 22, when Silat visits the general, right before Griffith shows up; and Volume 33, the conversation between Jarif and Silat. There's also a little about the Bakiraka related in volume 10, when the king summons them, but it's tangential to what you're asking about.

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Isnt this a great thing?
Not if it leads to further misunderstandings of the series by others.

You started this thread without an understanding of some basic facts of the series, and when presented with opposition, you tried to make things up on the spot. Then we corrected you, and corrected you again, and then again, and then you got belligerent about it. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but we simply don't let made-up things slide without properly grounding them.

Berserk is a very complicated series that's difficult for the average reader to fully comprehend on its own. When muddled theories pop up, they muddy the water for anyone who has a half-formed understanding themselves. I know this because I've seen it happen firsthand.

You haven't been around here very long, but keep in mind there are 10+ years of groundless theories on this forum posted by newcomers that have had to be debunked. And then they come back again from someone else. And again. And each time we have to put them down, or the ideas spread. Like the "Sword of Resonance" debacle years ago. An incorrect translation spread from this forum, eventually being adopted by Dark Horse.

Here are a few that have popped up over time:
• Maybe Guts is an Elf?
• Skull Knight is a robot?
• Maybe Casca liked getting raped?
• What if there were 2 Sets of God "hands"
• The Idea of Evil as an Egregore
• Did Mozgus meet 'God' when he died?
• What if Guts is really the Hawk of Dark?

Take a bet on what the defense for these was once we showed opposition to the ideas. If you guessed: "Well, you can't know FOR SURE it's not the case," you win!
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Offline vEnTh

Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2012, 09:44:03 PM »
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The count was there as an apostle in his apostle form, and he died on the spot, so they took his soul (because he'd just died; same thing happened to Wyald).

Oh Aaz one more thing Im asking for your input because i dont understand.

In the counts case, he already went thought a sacrifice and became an apostle. On the verge of death at guts hand through causality it appears, -his Beherit which vargas had possession of returned to him and once again he summoned the godhand through his Beherit. So as an apostle, he was given a second chance to make a second sacrifice to extend his life. He refused to sacrifice, and that is what sealed his fate to die on the spot.

Wyald had no Beherit of his own or one fated to him for a second sacrificial ceremony. He even demanded Griffith's Beherit and/or asked him to summon the Godhand for him (which we know Griffith didnt possess at that time.)

Is there any explanation as to why Wyald's original Beherit didnt return to him through causality like the count or is it just every case is different and the apostles are at the mercy of causality whether they once owned a Beherit or not?

Offline Walter

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2012, 12:36:42 AM »
the apostles are at the mercy of causality whether they once owned a Beherit or not?
This.

Beherits choose the time and place of their activation, guided by their master (The Idea of Evil). This is established by Flora in Volume 24, but it's something readers could infer much earlier.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: An Essay on Rakshas and his role in Berserk
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2012, 08:31:57 AM »
I understand and completely see you point, and it is the scenario that makes the most sense. Once again, I am new and chose speculation nation to post some of these things because I thought it was appropriate, a fun place to analyze the panels and say 'hey what about this' in a fun way

That's fine, no problem. Like Walter said, we just don't let "anything" fly because otherwise it ends up leading to (sometimes pretty big) misconceptions. So when something's incorrect, even if it's all in good fun, we point out the mistakes. Which is also one of the main uses of this forum.

Maybe its not the first time, Sk seems to really enjoy interruping the Godhand such as at the Feast, Slan at Qliphoth, Femto on Ganishka as well as messing with them indirectly like stopping them from murdering flora and attempting to interfere with the apostle-Beherit.

It's a bit more complex than you're making it out to be, but to focus on the issue at hand, when the Skull Knight barged into the Occultation ceremony, most of the God Hand seemed astonished at what he'd done. It was a risky intervention on his part and not something he could attempt again and again (see how Femto played him when he attacked him in volume 34). Besides, there's quite a difference between interrupting a huge event and appearing during a "simple" apostle ceremony.

Were the son to somehow escape, the most likely reason is the antics of SK. It would explain how he got out and why Ganishka didnt kill him on the spot.

But it still wouldn't explain why Ganishka isn't remembering it... Or why neither SK nor Rakshas hinted at all. It's a big pile of fabrication that nothing lends credence to in the manga.

And my thought i posted above was in fact why the bakiraka was exiled: Of course Ganishka would remember a failed bid to seize power by his son and the bakiraka.

But Ganishka gave the Bakiraka a chance to regain their place among the Kushan empire, which is why they agreed to work for him in the first place... That wouldn't make sense if he had been the one who had exiled them, considering that he had enough resources to do everything he needed to without them. They were a valuable asset, but not indispensable by any means. So there's simply no way that could work. Also, don't focus on the glossary too much, it's not above errors.

We'll, its mostly you and Walter to a lesser degree being hyper-aggressive and sarcastic.

No, it's you being oversensitive about this. I told you before you even registered to not presume too much, as I knew exactly where this was headed. There were many mistakes and incorrect assumptions in your post and they were pointed out. Nothing more, nothing less.

On the verge of death at guts hand through causality it appears, -his Beherit which vargas had possession of returned to him and once again he summoned the godhand through his Beherit. So as an apostle, he was given a second chance to make a second sacrifice to extend his life. He refused to sacrifice, and that is what sealed his fate to die on the spot.

He was already dying because of the major wounds he'd received, it's not like the refusal to sacrifice itself ended his life. It could have been a direct consequence (being on "life support" somehow) or simply a perfect coincidence (the beauty of causality), but I wouldn't assume that refusing to sacrifice always means death.

Wyald had no Beherit of his own or one fated to him for a second sacrificial ceremony. He even demanded Griffith's Beherit and/or asked him to summon the Godhand for him (which we know Griffith didnt possess at that time.) Is there any explanation as to why Wyald's original Beherit didnt return to him through causality like the count or is it just every case is different and the apostles are at the mercy of causality whether they once owned a Beherit or not?

Every case is different. The count was actually extremely fortunate to be given a second chance to sacrifice something. Wyald was just an idiot who knew little and understood even less about how things work. Like Walter said, no apostle ever actually "possesses" a beherit. The only true owner of all beherits is the Idea of Evil, the God of Berserk's world. The being that manipulates the world through causality to reach its goals. Only It decides when, how and for whom a beherit is activated.