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Author Topic: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]  (Read 67638 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #100 on: January 05, 2013, 05:30:21 AM »
Maybe I can say good things about this adaptation because I went into it with realistic expectations.

Expectations should not have anything to do with it. It's just pretty bad honestly. That's it. Take it from the guy who'd warned about its possible problems before it was even officially announced.

So that's something right?

Is it "something" that your younger cousins, who couldn't be bothered to read a graphic novel of any kind, like those movies? I'd say no.

Haters gonna hate but that 100 man battle was very entertaining to watch. Plus the siege of Doldrey was very good too. Lack of Zodd......lack of Guts sword breaking.....lack of fairy medicine......lack of Bonfire of Dreams.....do you see what I'm doing here? Every cut falls back onto another cut. At which point do you accept 4C simply wasn't going to a very faithful adaptation? They had to pick and choose what they wanted to be good. Zodd scene, 100 man battle, Doldrey, Griffith getting tortured.

You miss the point. Those movies are bad. Good for you if you found a small part of this movie "enjoyable" (your conspicuous silence on the remaining 1h15 of it is telling enough), but that doesn't change the problems it has, problems you have acknowledged yourself. I don't doubt that a lot of people liked Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, but it's still a shitty movie. No one denies you the right to enjoy whatever you want to. But I reserve myself the right to question what people think is needed or not to do Berserk justice.

Why did you expect it to be good? What indication did you have that it would be?

What a dumb statement. Why expect it to be good? Again, expectations have nothing to do with it. As fans, it's perfectly normal to want it to be good, and as paying customers, it's expected of us to demand it to be good. Satisfying oneself with a bad product is what is unnatural here. You don't go to a restaurant expecting to eat rotten food, do you? And if you did happen to be served rotten food, you wouldn't eat it without complaints, or try to rationalize the experience. "Oh well, the water wasn't that foul at least". That's what you're doing here.

I watched it like a tech demo showcasing some memorable scenes from the Berserk manga and that's all.

It didn't really "showcase" anything though. What scenes were featured looked rather bad to me.

There really was no reason to ever get excited or to expect something of great quality. I sure as hell never hoped for much. I have no desire to expel energy on hatin on these films. If I went down that road I'd sound a lot like you and my blood pressure would go up. My Berserk "fix" is filled already, I sure as hell never expected Studio 4C to come even close. Not close at all. Now the movies here and COMPARED to the manga it is pure garbage but why exert energy pointing out what everyone already knows?

No one's losing sleep over those movies here, let me assure you. And being upfront about their low quality doesn't take any more passion than pretending they're good. As to why we're exerting energy posting about it... Well, uh, we're fans, so that's pretty much what we do. Not to mention that apparently not everyone knows it. Just look at the poll.

Aside from the story one thing I will defend is the way it looks. Personally I thought the tech was pretty cool and looks great in HD. Not really seeing the comparison to cutscenes from a video game.

I think the problem's on your side.

I might appear new here but I've been visiting this forum for god, has it been 5 years or longer now? Hell could be 10 years I've lost track. Fans demanding more Berserk is nothing new and for a long long long time we did beg for more. I mean how could we not considering where the anime series ended right?

Not sure I follow you. The official SK.net stance was never MORE ANIME NO MATTER THE QUALITY, quite the opposite in fact. If you've been lurking for years you must be aware of this. The TV series ended on a cliffhanger, but it didn't matter to those who were reading the manga. The people who clamored for a second season in 2002 aren't active anymore. And if they were I'm not sure they'd be satisfied with these movies anyway.

Sorry to be a Debbie downer or negative but if after this VERY long wait they couldn't show the project more respect than 4C did I have zero faith it will ever happen.

We'll see. It doesn't really pertain to the issue at hand though.

To be honest, I prefer that something bad is done with <insert my favourite franchise> than nothing at all. My reasoning is that if it's at least moderately successful it might lead to other productions with more quality. Of course a work can be so bad that it kills an entire franchise altogether but I don't remember any examples...

All in all it's similar to "Say good or bad things about me, i don't care. But talk about me, goddammit!"

Not justifiying the movie or saying that you shouldn't criticize it, far from it. Just saying that there's nothing wrong in seeing the silver lining and hope that 1 bad adaptation may lead to a better one.

Now this is an argument I can understand. However I'm not sure these movies will do much good in that regard. If anything at least I hope they end up being profitable, even if barely.

Yo, Aaz, that is the mother of all reviews :guts: Your attention to detail is as mesmerising as ever. Made for an epic lunch break read, thanks for sharing. I thought I was picky and critical but much of the more in-depth issues you mention I never even noticed, then again I wasnt really looking or comparing to the manga on that level. And its nice that you´re drawing parallels to the manga on a regular basis like that, and describing each version, sorry I know Im dick riding here but it gives a sense of professionalism/sophistication having you around :ubik:

Glad you enjoyed it! I figured that if I was going to post a review I might as well make it a serious one.

Now here is something I can get on board with. Has a faithful adaptation, the trilogy has failed. And even has a movie adaptations the trilogy is pretty bad. But I suppose it does go above and beyond as a tech demo, but of course that's not what it was marketed as.

But do you think it looks good, from a purely technical perspective? I'd say it's very, very uneven. Some scenes are alright when reduced to short clips, but they're few and far between.

Offline Cronus

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #101 on: January 05, 2013, 05:33:41 AM »
If there is one thing I learned a long time ago, especially for a book/comic being adapted to a film, you will always be disappointed.  The best you can do is judge the result on its own merit in its own context.

So on that note, I just watched it.  I voted it as good, a little better than the first one overall.  The production team definitely stuck to what they could do well from the first and expanded it here.  The 100 man battle was great to see, the Doldrey battle was well done to me, and they hit most of the main plot points.

My main gripe really was with Griffith's relationship to Gennon.  I think they tried to sort of pull it all together at the meeting where he is killed, which didn't work at all.  Obviously the manga is better, blah blah blah.  The Casca/Guts going in circles at the ball was also pretty laughable, but I still managed to smile.

Otherwise, if you saw the first one, expect the same brisk pace with the story in general.  I feel they encapsulated key moments from the manga into 90 minutes quite well, and frankly most of the reviews here I very much disagree with.  (Including the EXCELLENT!!!!1 ones.)  I appreciate what they are doing with the material and I definitely can't wait for the 3rd one - it will be extremely difficult to pull it off well I think, particularly in regards to Casca/Femto.  I'll be honest here - while I know that the rape is very integral to the plot in the manga the presentation is just too much for me and other people I have tried to get interested in the manga. If the studio takes it in a different direction such as a 'less is more' route, it could be a vastly superior scene without the absurd exhibition.  That and if it is as graphic as the manga, I don't see it coming out state side.

I have shown the first film to a couple of people who were not familiar with the series, and it interested them enough to borrow some of my manga.  I feel that this movie does a good job of continuing that, and hopefully the third one will do the same along with it hopefully continuing.  Most of the Berserk fans hating on the films I think just hate that they're animating the Golden Age AGAIN and are examining it a bit too much.  They want the Black Swordsman arc, Lost Children, Retribution, and all of the good stuff afterward.  Count me among those fans that want to see them brought to life, and hopefully these first three movies will be successful enough to justify it.
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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #102 on: January 05, 2013, 05:44:13 AM »
Glad you were able to see it. Was wondering what you'd think. "Good" though...? I'm pretty surprised  :griffnotevil:

they hit most of the main plot points.
And didn't do much else...  :void:

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My main gripe really was with Griffith's relationship to Gennon.
Really? Even moreso than the removal of the Griffith/boy soldier scene, Bonfire of Dreams, Queen Assassination, etc? That's surprising to me. Gennon was always a means to an end in the series. He's a vehicle to show how far Griffith will go. But he had some key scenes tangentially related to him, such as when Casca sees Griffith on the morning after. And that, of course, is missing, and missed. But I didn't feel that us  not seeing Griffith up on that balcony with Gennon's arm around him was a truly missed element. Afterall, in this version we get Gennon groping Griffith's thighs. That's something... right?

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I definitely can't wait for the 3rd one - it will be extremely difficult to pull it off well I think, particularly in regards to Casca/Femto.
As well as any emotional gravity whatsoever that they've failed to instill in the other members of the Falcons. Not to mention the time compression issues they're going to have with so much ground to cover. I think it will be miraculous if the movie comes across as coherent.

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 I'll be honest here - while I know that the rape is very integral to the plot in the manga the presentation is just too much for me and other people I have tried to get interested in the manga. If the studio takes it in a different direction such as a 'less is more' route, it could be a vastly superior scene without the absurd exhibition.  That and if it is as graphic as the manga, I don't see it coming out state side.
...You did see the Griffith/Charlotte scene in Movie 2, right? Expect full-on, Ali G-style "I Wanna See It ... Goin In" action for Femto's debut.

Quote
Most of the Berserk fans hating on the films I think just hate that they're animating the Golden Age AGAIN and are examining it a bit too much.  They want the Black Swordsman arc, Lost Children, Retribution, and all of the good stuff afterward.  Count me among those fans that want to see them brought to life, and hopefully these first three movies will be successful enough to justify it.
Honestly, if this same studio is going to attempt to animate other sequences in the series, I'd rather not have it at all. Having them animated as a novelty is worth utterly nothing to me. It has to represent the spirit of the series in order to it to matter. And so far this adaptation has merely been going through the motions.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Roderick

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #103 on: January 05, 2013, 06:48:50 AM »
It's not merely a matter of things changing, though I see how that'd be a convenient exit strategy. Quite simply, these movies suck all on their own. Characters don't reach logical conclusions. Actions are taken without meaningful explanation. Character origins are obscured or simply removed, which makes things confusing for everyone involved. There are so many missed opportunities for development that are instead traded for new or extended action/boning sequences. Seriously, how is that still not being understood?

I agree that this is the crux of the issue with this series at the moment, especially with this second film.  Characters at this point are seriously one-dimensional and the more complex key plot points clash with the undercooked characterizations when the film can't rely on the most basic of motivations.  Guts' duel with Griffith is the most serious offender in this regard.  The movie literally has no (or very weak) build-up to this moment character-wise--it just happens because it happens in the source material and leads to the events of Griffiths imprisonment and the Hawks' exile.  A drunken barroom brawl would have made as much sense.  Griffith's dreams and ambitions aren't even hinted at let alone mentioned, which is shocking given the material covered.

Also, considering these are suppose to be self-contained features intended to generate box office on their own merits, they pretty much only get by on the action and the promise of "adult" content.  They're pretty much like an extended Republic serial in which any downtime is perfunctory exposition set up the next action set piece, more so the 2nd.  So they basically have spectacle and an epic scope to fall back on, but even on that level they aren't very noteworthy.  At the very best, the CGI is competent, but unremarkable and at worst, embarrassing.  There are noteworthy flourishes of high-quality presentation and animation there but it is highly inconsistent.  Comparing either of these movies even on this level to Akira is laughable considering Akira boasted some of the finest animation work in its day, rivaling the best of its contemporaries.  Even today, the level of detail in its animation is laudatory.

The action, which at this point seems to be the raison d'être for this project's theatrical release, is also pretty standard.  It's okay on its own terms but mostly is rather basic hack-and-slash stuff and is pretty lacking in creativity (let alone the artistry, freshness, and level of detail of the manga's violence) once the novelty of decapitated faceless 3-D models wears off.  The attempts at mixing up the action with thrilling attacks and techniques is pretty out there.  After Boscone's tornado spin that looked like a Mortal Kombat finisher, I was half-expecting Guts to start killing people by punching them in the face and Pippin to show up with a cannon mounted to his back.

It would be a bit easier if these were intended as TV specials or OVAs made to generate a quick buck, but releasing it as a feature film puts it under more scrutiny.   At this point, the series has a generic B action movie look and feel to it, except it's trying to masquerade as a though-provoking and complex drama.  Sort of like the desires of the filmmakers to produce entertaining, junk food entertainment is at odds with the source material.  You'd think there would be good opportunity to include much of the manga's penchant for consistent doses of goofball humor, but the movies take themselves dead serious so much of the time (as Aazealh pointed out) that it seems the movies themselves are putting on a front to cover their own slapdash presentation.

Offline Saephon

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #104 on: January 05, 2013, 07:08:05 AM »
If there is one thing I learned a long time ago, especially for a book/comic being adapted to a film, you will always be disappointed.  


Until someone gives me a good enough reason for this, I will continue to complain and petition for better adaptations. At least in live action major motion pictures, it's understandable that mass market appeal is the end goal, so some changes revolve around that. But an anime OVA? Really?

9 times out of 10 I simply can't buy the "pacing" or "shortage of screentime" argument, because for every major plot element that's removed in an adaptation, there's a completely useless fanfiction one forced in. I guess the kinds of people in charge of these decisions just have no faith in an excellent story selling itself.
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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #105 on: January 05, 2013, 09:50:20 AM »
Why?

Obviously because we are fans.....that's why. Not like you have to see it cause it's so good, you have to see it just because. Regardless of any negative reviews posted here or our own indications the films would disappoint, has that stopped a single one of us from watching them?

Even those here disgusted by the first two films will watch the next one. It's just how it is and you know it. Name me a single forum member here that has refused to watch the movies. Everyone Berserk fan will watch them, they truly have to. Even if it's to watch them and tear them to shreds.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #106 on: January 05, 2013, 10:47:41 AM »
If there is one thing I learned a long time ago, especially for a book/comic being adapted to a film, you will always be disappointed.

Et tu, Cronus? Anyway, the trick is to always see the movie first, alas... I guess I'll take this opportunity to engage your points and share some of my counters to these sentiments, sorry to pick on you.

The best you can do is judge the result on its own merit in its own context.

I'm going to hold you to this, though context is a little tricky because many of the limitations the filmmakers faced were ones they gave themselves with bad planning/decision-making from the outset. Far different than making the best of limitations imposed on them. That's just doing a bad job, so I don't think it's fair to give it a passing grade based on the fact that they set out to do something that couldn't be that good in the first place. It's like an essay where 20 pages are required to do the subject justice, but they decided to only do 5. That just made it all the more disappointing from the start.

So on that note, I just watched it.  I voted it as good, a little better than the first one overall.  The production team definitely stuck to what they could do well from the first and expanded it here.  The 100 man battle was great to see, the Doldrey battle was well done to me, and they hit most of the main plot points.

By what definition, 51%? I'm not even sure it reached that threshold if you consider everything that was removed, unless we adhere to their criteria of what's important: 100 Man Fight, Doldery, Ball, Duel, Sex and Aftermath. Basically everything not told through action doesn't count, and then there's the stuff removed from within those scenes, some of which was the actual point/emotional payoff of the scene, leaving us watching a lot of motion without action (at least it seemed to me). Off the top of my head they're missing Casca's and Griffith's respective back stories, along with Gennon's relationship to Griff, Casca's relationship to Griff, her's to Guts and the Bonfire of Dreams scene, which also contained Guts' true perspective relating to... well shit, one just rolls into the next, do I even need to get into the specifics of the assassination plots and everything else that in many cases were needlessly altered, dumbed down or dumped so we could have some added seconds of Griffith eating Charlotte out (in the words of Tim & Eric, "Good job!")? Anyway, there's a trend there, and I'll just say it doesn't strike me as objectively "good" on its merits as an adaptation to cut virtually all of the unique characterization beyond happy/sad/love/hate.

Obviously the manga is better, blah blah blah.

Think of how much better this could have been on its own terms. How much more of the source material it could have effectively integrated but didn't, and arbitrarily in many cases. I can imagine it being much, much better without even altering the run times. Despite the the self-imposed limitations they were working under, there's still plenty of obvious fat and wasted time/opportunities.

I feel they encapsulated key moments from the manga into 90 minutes quite well, and frankly most of the reviews here I very much disagree with.  (Including the EXCELLENT!!!!1 ones.)  I appreciate what they are doing with the material and I definitely can't wait for the 3rd one

Well, I obviously have to disagree with that for the reasons above. Unless by "encapsulated" you mean they've sealed many of the key scenes away. How about everything they didn't do? Why doesn't that count, because they didn't do it? 50% isn't a B, and I'm not even grading them by the manga but by what one reasonably could have expected from a pretty good adaptation. People are basically taking what we got as the high watermark and grading Studio 4C against their own work, like this isn't just all we got but somehow closely represents the best we could get this side of the manga, which doesn't make sense. I guess I could look at it from how much worse it could have been, like if Guts and the Falcons had been changed to Siberian huskies in a completely new story about dog sledding. Relative to something like that, what we got is a very faithful and good adaptation. A+ on that scale!

it will be extremely difficult to pull it off well I think, particularly in regards to Casca/Femto.  I'll be honest here - while I know that the rape is very integral to the plot in the manga the presentation is just too much for me and other people I have tried to get interested in the manga.

I know exactly what you mean, who you would or wouldn't show that scene to because of how they'd react to it, the series, and you for showing it to them, is definitely the ultimate litmus test of the series.

If the studio takes it in a different direction such as a 'less is more' route, it could be a vastly superior scene without the absurd exhibition.

Superior in what sense though? That it would make the rape more comfortable to watch, more palatable? I mean that in the least snotty way possible, obviously it's way over the top to the point of being disgusting and disturbing, but that is the point. I can't think of a more controversial scene in the series, risky too, with the reputation of the entire work hinging on how one takes it. So, while I don't enjoy looking at it any more than you do, that is a testament to its effectiveness, and I don't think lessening that effect would make it superior.

Disclaimer: Wasn't really talking in relation the movies here, just that scene in and of itself. They're obviously going to change it in the movie for the reasons you mentioned, accessibility, censorship, etc. Although, I'd like to mention that for me what Studio 4C is doing to Berserk in these movies is like watching Femto rape Casca for 90 minutes straight. FEEL MY PAIN, CRONUS!

I have shown the first film to a couple of people who were not familiar with the series, and it interested them enough to borrow some of my manga.  I feel that this movie does a good job of continuing that, and hopefully the third one will do the same along with it hopefully continuing.

"Wow.  In my mind, that's like your first time is getting an ass-pounding in prison."

Most of the Berserk fans hating on the films I think just hate that they're animating the Golden Age AGAIN and are examining it a bit too much.

Can we hate on the films for all the things they do poorly that they easily could have done better in the context of a film, let alone a long term project? Can Berserk fans be disappointed that instead of a great, or at least meticulous adaptation, which isn't impossible or unheard of in anime, we have to settle for the best Studio 4C can cram into arbitrary 90 minute chunks, which is highly questionable as it is? Can we be upset that they're sacrificing almost all the meaningful characterization that makes the series special in favor of emphasizing sex, violence, stupidity and reducing Berserk to its basest form? I don't think those beefs amount to nitpicking, over-examination or sour grapes, but fundamental disagreements with the overall purpose and execution of this project. Maybe some of the more forgiving types here that aren't paying much mind to that should try examining it a bit more. That's what we're here for.

-Griffith

P.S. Big old school staying-up-way-too-late-to-write post for you, Cronus.

Offline Cronus

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #107 on: January 05, 2013, 03:26:10 PM »
Hey all, I'll respond in this post - but if further discussion needs to happen maybe we should keep it out of the review thread?
Also, this looks like an Aaz post!  :guts:
And didn't do much else...  :void:
Which is fine - they got the main meat of the story in.  It moved fast but was otherwise there.
Quote
Really? Even moreso than the removal of the Griffith/boy soldier scene, Bonfire of Dreams, Queen Assassination, etc? That's surprising to me. Gennon was always a means to an end in the series. He's a vehicle to show how far Griffith will go. But he had some key scenes tangentially related to him, such as when Casca sees Griffith on the morning after. And that, of course, is missing, and missed. But I didn't feel that us  not seeing Griffith up on that balcony with Gennon's arm around him was a truly missed element. Afterall, in this version we get Gennon groping Griffith's thighs. That's something... right?
Bonfire of dreams is the only one I would agree with here - but only in the sense that it would have been a nice addition.  Otherwise, Casca early on in the forest asks Guts what he fights for, and before she leaves he says 'I'll think about what you asked me,' and there are several bits throughout that imply he is going to leave afterward. Ultimately the same point gets across despite the changes to the narrative and how it focuses pretty heavily on the Griffith speech.
Boy soldier scene and the Queen were largely inconsequential overall to me.
The Gennon scene should have had a little more setup prior to the fight I think is all to imply some sort of history, rather than it just coming out right before his death.  And Griffith made it crystal clear that he had been a means to an end anyway.

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As well as any emotional gravity whatsoever that they've failed to instill in the other members of the Falcons. Not to mention the time compression issues they're going to have with so much ground to cover. I think it will be miraculous if the movie comes across as coherent.

I do agree with the the part about the other members during the Eclipse.  Based on how this movie went though, Judeau won't get much, but ironically Carcus will probably get the best lines, animation, etc.  They do have what, another 40 minutes in the third movie?  They may pull it off.

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...You did see the Griffith/Charlotte scene in Movie 2, right? Expect full-on, Ali G-style "I Wanna See It ... Goin In" action for Femto's debut.

Yeah I am expecting this, but I maintain some hope!

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Honestly, if this same studio is going to attempt to animate other sequences in the series, I'd rather not have it at all. Having them animated as a novelty is worth utterly nothing to me. It has to represent the spirit of the series in order to it to matter. And so far this adaptation has merely been going through the motions.

Like I said previously, I think this is the crux for most fans - this is YET ANOTHER adaptation of material we have seen before.  If this were the first time this part of the story was being done, I really think people would give it more of a fair shake.

Et tu, Cronus? Anyway, the trick is to always see the movie first, alas... I guess I'll take this opportunity to engage your points and share some of my counters to these sentiments, sorry to pick on you.

BRING IT!  :daiba:

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I'm going to hold you to this, though context is a little tricky because many of the limitations the filmmakers faced were ones they gave themselves with bad planning/decision-making from the outset. Far different than making the best of limitations imposed on them. That's just doing a bad job, so I don't think it's fair to give it a passing grade based on the fact that they set out to do something that couldn't be that good in the first place. It's like an essay where 20 pages are required to do the subject justice, but they decided to only do 5. That just made it all the more disappointing from the start.

But 20 pages are not required to do it justice in my opinion.  Film/Animation is a totally different ballgame from drawing panels over years of practice and the author's affection in his characters.  I recognize that but by itself, I felt the movie was well done and carried the spirit over.

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By what definition, 51%? I'm not even sure it reached that threshold if you consider everything that was removed, unless we adhere to their criteria of what's important: 100 Man Fight, Doldery, Ball, Duel, Sex and Aftermath. Basically everything not told through action doesn't count, and then there's the stuff removed from within those scenes, some of which was the actual point/emotional payoff of the scene, leaving us watching a lot of motion without action (at least it seemed to me).

The action was definitely the main vehicle for the character development, I agree.  A different take but not done poorly.
Let's go over these and I'll explain my reasoning for said plot points:

100 Man Fight: Important in the movie for different reasons.  Instead of it being focused on Guts discovering his obsession with the sword, it became a catalyst for him leaving; he was tired of being Griffith's slave.  It also served as a basis for Guts/Casca's relationship to happen in the next film.  In the manga when they find him passed out, she wanted him to be alive so she wouldn't feel guilty about abandoning him while she ran; in the film it's complete relief that Guts is alive at all.  I think that is a marked difference.  Also, they even covered how Guts essentially gets into the zone anyway with his final bits of internal monologue so the fight was 'covered' in its most important aspects.

Doldrey: This played out almost entirely the same as the manga, the backstory of Gennon and his lust for Griffith just didn't make sense until his final moments.  Griffith ends the 100 year war, it's a big deal.  Zodd throwing the sword is not critical here AT ALL.  The Boscogne fight was good too, it definitely showed that he was pretty much an even match for Guts.  The flag throw wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  A little odd, but I think it shows how resourceful Guts is as a fighter and what sets him apart.  He also ended up using the same terrain advantage Griffith used in his strategy to take the castle (the dust) and thus win the fight.  Similarly, I enjoyed Casca's fight with Adon here.  Three different battles here, all relevant.  This is the best part of the movie.

The Ball: The Hawks come back and they're made nobles.  For pretty much everyone, everything they worked so hard on has come to this.  Guts/Casca chat further about his future and she realizes he is going to leave.  Guts realizes it's the best time to leave because to him, Griffith has actually achieved everything he set out to do.  Guts wants to be his friend and thus his equal.  The dance scenes were new but ultimately the message is conveyed that they have done it.  Guts/Casca have a dance for a little relief, you get to see a normally serious character kind of cut loose a bit.  I see this scene overall as more of a tragedy waiting to happen rather than the political drama it was in the manga.

The Duel: I can't really recall having any problems with the duel.  Other than a bit of missing internal dialogue from the manga, everything else was clear.  Casca's feelings are pretty clear at this point.

Bangfest 2012: Griffith, having lost control of what really got him where he was today, decided he needed to immediately control what was going to get him to his ultimate goal which was Charlotte.  It was more of a hate fuck, trying to prove he was still in control of something.  This scene got more air time because this is literally where the descent starts, and it merits having a bit more attention to it.  The aftermath is done well too.

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They're missing Casca's and Griffith's respective back stories
It's clear Griffith is a commoner who leads a special group.  That's all you really need to know.
Casca's story is missing now that I think about it, so good point there.  But I don't think it is a GLARING OMISSION from the movie.  It might come up in the next movie, though.
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along with Gennon's relationship to Griff
Well, it was touched on  :carcus:
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Casca's relationship to Griff, her's to Guts
Casca is pretty clear early on what she think of Griffith and what she wants.  During the ball scene, her jealousy is distinct.
Her's to Guts is still forming but it is pretty much all there.

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and the Bonfire of Dreams scene, which also contained Guts' true perspective relating to... well shit, one just rolls into the next, do I even need to get into the specifics of the assassination plots and everything else that in many cases were needlessly altered, dumbed down or dumped so we could have some added seconds of Griffith eating Charlotte out (in the words of Tim & Eric, "Good job!")? Anyway, there's a trend there, and I'll just say it doesn't strike me as objectively "good" on its merits as an adaptation to cut virtually all of the unique characterization beyond happy/sad/love/hate.

Those scenes by and large don't matter or don't warrant the time on screen to convey their point.

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Think of how much better this could have been on its own terms. How much more of the source material it could have effectively integrated but didn't, and arbitrarily in many cases. I can imagine it being much, much better without even altering the run times. Despite the the self-imposed limitations they were working under, there's still plenty of obvious fat and wasted time/opportunities.

I disagree.  I think they made choices to broaden the appeal of Berserk to people who had no prior knowledge of it.  Few people go to see a movie where there is a whole lot of political shit talking, and Berserk is marketed as a fantasy war movie.  They conveyed the story in a different way and within different constraints.  I for one am glad because who honestly wants to see every single detail put on the big screen exactly in the same way as Miura did it his books?  I cannot possibly see how they could have added everything people seem to collectively 'want' and not alter the run time significantly.  If I could pick one scene from the manga that I would have liked to see, it would be the bonfire of dreams.  Past that, not much else matters.

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Superior in what sense though? That it would make the rape more comfortable to watch, more palatable? I mean that in the least snotty way possible, obviously it's way over the top to the point of being disgusting and disturbing, but that is the point. I can't think of a more controversial scene in the series, risky too, with the reputation of the entire work hinging on how one takes it. So, while I don't enjoy looking at it any more than you do, that is a testament to its effectiveness, and I don't think lessening that effect would make it superior.

I guess what I mean is - I'd like it to focus more on Guts' reactions to what is happening and his fight to free himself to attempt to save her, and focus on Femto's glare of "I'm a GOD now, bitch!" rather than the total obscenity of Casca being pounded on.
But I think now that I basically am asking them to make the scene less graphic because I think it's already going to be off the charts even compared to the manga.  That was me just thinking out loud and considering how the third movie will be.

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FEEL MY PAIN, CRONUS!

REQUEST DENIED

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"Wow.  In my mind, that's like your first time is getting an ass-pounding in prison."

HAHA!  Don't judge me on posts I made literally 10 years ago here!  I was an angry youth!  :griffnotevil:

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Can we hate on the films for all the things they do poorly that they easily could have done better in the context of a film, let alone a long term project? Can Berserk fans be disappointed that instead of a great, or at least meticulous adaptation, which isn't impossible or unheard of in anime, we have to settle for the best Studio 4C can cram into arbitrary 90 minute chunks, which is highly questionable as it is? Can we be upset that they're sacrificing almost all the meaningful characterization that makes the series special in favor of emphasizing sex, violence, stupidity and reducing Berserk to its basest form? I don't think those beefs amount to nitpicking, over-examination or sour grapes, but fundamental disagreements with the overall purpose and execution of this project. Maybe some of the more forgiving types here that aren't paying much mind to that should try examining it a bit more. That's what we're here for.

Yeah, we can all do that.  I just think it is worth stepping back a minute and asking who this trilogy is for.  I feel if you're a diehard Berserk fan, these movies aren't really for you.
Whatever they do in the films and whatever your opinion of them, they do not affect or change the manga.  And if a person sees these movies and is impatient to know more, as many of us did when the TV series first came out, point them to the manga.

But this is ultimately about the movies themselves, and I feel like I was able to separate it from the manga and give it a fair shake, and I liked it.

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P.S. Big old school staying-up-way-too-late-to-write post for you, Cronus.

I'm honored! :ganishka:

This is a pretty big post, so if people want to talk about it further maybe it should be in PMs - I just want to make sure I'm not threadshitting.
All is within the flow of causality.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #108 on: January 06, 2013, 01:00:40 AM »
Also, this looks like an Aaz post!  :guts:

Be careful what you invoke! :magni:


Like I said previously, I think this is the crux for most fans - this is YET ANOTHER adaptation of material we have seen before.  If this were the first time this part of the story was being done, I really think people would give it more of a fair shake.

You're implying that bias stops us from recognizing the true quality of this work, but what is that quality? Ok? Mediocre? The situation is quite easily reversed, you might not be giving it a "fair shake" yourself. If this wasn't called Berserk, I don't think it would be on any one of our top movie lists this year, animated or otherwise. I think it would be fair to dismiss it as another shitty anime (I don't know, maybe it's very high quality by today's standards). You're grading it on such a curve that it can basically do no wrong. I see the logic of loving what you have if you'll never get what you'd love, but... fuck. They could have done an AWESOME saga project, but that's largely a post for another day.

But 20 pages are not required to do it justice in my opinion.  Film/Animation is a totally different ballgame from drawing panels over years of practice and the author's affection in his characters.  I recognize that but by itself, I felt the movie was well done and carried the spirit over.

Again, I think you carried the spirit over and bestowed it upon your viewing experience. You're not missing anything from seeing the cliff notes version (apologies to the thoroughness of CliffsNotes) because you already know the whole thing and can automatically fill in the blanks, especially on the level of emotional satisfaction. Just seeing Guts on the screen carries a weight and meaning to us that it doesn't for a new viewer. If anything, as fans we're predisposed to be biased in it's favor.

Doldrey: This played out almost entirely the same as the manga, the backstory of Gennon and his lust for Griffith just didn't make sense until his final moments.  Griffith ends the 100 year war, it's a big deal.  Zodd throwing the sword is not critical here AT ALL.  The Boscogne fight was good too, it definitely showed that he was pretty much an even match for Guts.  The flag throw wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  A little odd, but I think it shows how resourceful Guts is as a fighter and what sets him apart.  He also ended up using the same terrain advantage Griffith used in his strategy to take the castle (the dust) and thus win the fight.  Similarly, I enjoyed Casca's fight with Adon here.  Three different battles here, all relevant.  This is the best part of the movie.

The Ball: The Hawks come back and they're made nobles.  For pretty much everyone, everything they worked so hard on has come to this.  Guts/Casca chat further about his future and she realizes he is going to leave.  Guts realizes it's the best time to leave because to him, Griffith has actually achieved everything he set out to do.  Guts wants to be his friend and thus his equal.  The dance scenes were new but ultimately the message is conveyed that they have done it.  Guts/Casca have a dance for a little relief, you get to see a normally serious character kind of cut loose a bit.  I see this scene overall as more of a tragedy waiting to happen rather than the political drama it was in the manga.

Aside from all the little tweaks and outright changes (some wholly unnecessary for time or anything else) is everyone's underlying motivations. That's how all these cuts bleed the life out of the story. Like we agree, it's Berserk the action story, but that's what makes me question the point of it all because you could get that anywhere; this might as well be anything. Doldrey may be the best part, but to be honest I found it rather tedious to watch. Continuing this theme with the ball, I don't see the point of watching stock characters that merely resemble Berserk characters, either for old fans that know better or new viewers that won't understand what's so special about them (I guess they're not supposed to be; depressing).

Bangfest 2012: Griffith, having lost control of what really got him where he was today, decided he needed to immediately control what was going to get him to his ultimate goal which was Charlotte.  It was more of a hate fuck, trying to prove he was still in control of something.  This scene got more air time because this is literally where the descent starts, and it merits having a bit more attention to it.

You sound like the producer at a Q&A or something. It doesn't merit special attention more than anything else, like half the stuff you've already dismissed as not important (such as Zodd's foreshadowing). Totally arbitrary, but it has to be rationalized because it's there. Boy, is it there! :isidro:

Casca's story is missing now that I think about it, so good point there.  But I don't think it is a GLARING OMISSION from the movie.

"Good point, but who cares?" Maybe it's not a glaring omission from Doldrey Fight Fuck Fest: The Movie, no, but from any self-respecting Berserk adaptation, it seems the very definition of a glaring omission. I mean, how is this not a very bad thing? Is it too much to ask of our Berserk adaption to adapt the female lead's background, the antagonist's, the main character's? (at least they were consistent; moments of blurry filtered video) I mean, if nothing is sacred, there can't very well be any glaring omissions, can there? This gets to the heart of my suspicion of your "fair shake," because this makes it seem like you're not giving it a fair shake, or shaking it at all, you're just giving it a pass.

Her's to Guts is still forming but it is pretty much all there.

Except for the half dozen scenes we've discussed and the accompanying feelings that aren't there; the foundation of their relationship. Now Guts and Casca are essentially paper dolls, together because their hands are attached; like everything else, because they're supposed to be. So much for Casca's past and present then, I hope at this point they just leave her future out too, do her a favor.

Those scenes by and large don't matter or don't warrant the time on screen to convey their point.

This hurts me, so a quick reminder of what matters and warrants more screen time...


"...it merits having a bit more attention..."

I disagree. I think they made choices to broaden the appeal of Berserk to people who had no prior knowledge of it.  Few people go to see a movie where there is a whole lot of political shit talking, and Berserk is marketed as a fantasy war movie.  They conveyed the story in a different way and within different constraints.

Those concepts aren't mutually exclusive with successfully adapting it to film (nor were movies necessary, or even conducive, to successfully adapting it). It didn't hurt the now surprisingly faithful looking '97 TV series to include those things. Also, I don't see evidence that cutting it was necessary or ultimately worked for the films either. The film series' popularity doesn't seem to be exploding, eclipsing the manga or blowing the franchise up. So, they needlessly dumbed it down, and to no avail. They seemingly couldn't handle doing the big boy version, so they did one that would be for kids if it wasn't for the graphic content (I guess that = young adult). We're practically immune though because we know this story subconsciously.

I for one am glad because who honestly wants to see every single detail put on the big screen exactly in the same way as Miura did it his books?

Nobody, which is why that's always been a straw man. Who wants to see a really half-assed version? Again, it's worse than the '97 anime! The only plus is it's a quick watch.

I cannot possibly see how they could have added everything people seem to collectively 'want' and not alter the run time significantly.

Not just adding, there was plenty of potential addition by subtraction (of more needless additions like Eyepatch or the extended bangfest dubstep remix). Also, they essentially chose those run times and constraints, and even then they could have done a much better job tweaking things and better using the time they still somehow managed to waste. They basically set themselves up to fail, gave themselves no margin for error, then blundered forward, still making a lot of frustratingly baffling creative decisions in the process. Going to go out on a limb and call that a bad job by them.

It could have been worse, I found the rough cut of the film project as a single movie like the producers originally intended: Berserk: The Movie :guts:

If I could pick one scene from the manga that I would have liked to see, it would be the bonfire of dreams.

Past that, not much else matters.

URRRRRRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

"...it merits having a bit more attention..."

HAHA!  Don't judge me on posts I made literally 10 years ago here!  I was an angry youth!  :griffnotevil:

On the contrary, that's a tribute to you, sir! Please, show these movies to that angry youth; he'll know even FF8 was better (even the dance scene =).

Yeah, we can all do that.  I just think it is worth stepping back a minute and asking who this trilogy is for.  I feel if you're a diehard Berserk fan, these movies aren't really for you.

Sounds like the Star Wars prequels (you don't like those now too, right? =) They're weren't for the people that liked the originals either, which makes a lot of sense (at least this is just an adaptation). BTW, you know what I like about this trilogy? That we have a Berserk Film Trilogy! Like LOTR or Star Wars!! :ubik: Or, when you actually watch it, more like The Hobbit, Star Wars* Prequels, or the Zombie vs. Ninja trilogy. I really like the existence of the Berserk Trilogy, but only when I'm not watching any of it. Seriously, I wasn't lying when I said I couldn't help but feel excited about this just before the credits rolled, even after disliking the first movie.

But this is ultimately about the movies themselves, and I feel like I was able to separate it from the manga and give it a fair shake, and I liked it.

That's the trick, but ultimately it's impossible. The manga is the source material, where the adaptation comes from and inherently the basis of comparison, so any judgement of it, even on its merits as what it is or could have been, has to at least take it into consideration. I was able to judge it on it's own too, I gave it the proverbial fair shake, and I didn't find it to be anything special or even very good. The positives (it's Berserk!) were far outweighed by the negatives (it's not Berserk...). I think it only gets positive recognition for being a Berserk adaptation, not for it's objective quality. Honestly, I think that's the only reason you like it, because it superficially tickles your Berserk fancy in an economical 90 minutes. Otherwise, our conversation would be, "What's that? I don't know. Who cares? It's drivel." Because minus the name and familiar elements we can reconcile in our minds as fans, that's what it is, drivel; and that's not giving Berserk a fair shake.


-Griffith

P.S.

I'm honored! :ganishka:

Well, I hope you still feel that way. It's usually around the second giant quote post that it starts getting old. :griffnotevil:

Online Walter

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #109 on: January 06, 2013, 06:22:59 PM »
[The Bonfire of Dreams] Those scenes by and large don't matter or don't warrant the time on screen to convey their point.
This is just some serious bullshit, man. I'm floored.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline dasfdeas

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #110 on: January 06, 2013, 09:18:48 PM »
I just want to jump in and say that I agree 100% with Griffith, but what we're seeing here is a new generation of fan in some ways.  I don't think anyone over 25 is going to argue that the anime of the 2000s on the whole was as good as the 80's and 90's, and people who have been conditioned by the stuff that has been released recently are more prone to accept this type of thing.  The Hellsing manga was adapted a second time, much like Berserk, but into OVAs that couldn't tell the entire story, and as a result rushed or outright skipped major plot points...and a lot of "fans" loved them for the supposedly great animation and because it was better than nothing.  Obviously, the Griffith/Charlotte sex scene tells you everything that you need to know, even though we may be loathe to admit it. 4c isn't doing anything out the ordinary, they're following this newer business model: Adapt a manga with a loyal fanbase in the cheapest way possible (very sketchy CG animation) and leave enough meat on the bone so they recognize it as that series while throwing in enough sex and mindless action so that the casual anime fan will give it a rental or purchase.  For the record, I think Berserk is a better manga than Hellsing and these movies are not as good as the Hellsing Ultimate OVAs.

The one positive thing that these films have done is make me realize how much I loved the Dreamcast game.  It recognized the story telling limits of its genre, and made the most of it while being a stand alone story someone unfamiliar with the manga could pick up and enjoy.  I actually was talking with someone about Dreamcast games recently, and they told me Sword of the Berserk was their favorite while having no idea it was ever based on a manga.  That's just not the type of reaction the average person will have to these movies, but they're par for the course in terms of recent anime adaptations.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #111 on: January 06, 2013, 09:56:04 PM »
4c isn't doing anything out the ordinary, they're following this newer business model: Adapt a manga with a loyal fanbase in the cheapest way possible (very sketchy CG animation) and leave enough meat on the bone so they recognize it as that series while throwing in enough sex and mindless action so that the casual anime fan will give it a rental or purchase.

Roderick made a good point earlier though: this isn't some cheap direct-to-video release. These are theatrical movies with a somewhat sizable marketing effort behind them, which makes their poor quality all the more damning. And I'm not sure they're making too much money either. I'm curious to know what the numbers are in fact, but that's a topic for another thread.

Also, to Cronus, I don't want to pile too much on top of what's already been said, but I'm pretty dismayed by what you've been saying here. I wonder if you didn't set out to like these movies no matter what, but even then honestly your comments would remain quite perplexing. Like I don't see how you could be bothered by Gennon's half-assed backstory while not minding how half-assed everything else was, like Guts and Casca's entire relationship becoming three and a half lines awkwardly sprinkled over the movie. Beyond the adaptation, those comments seem to reflect on your appreciation of Berserk as a story. And the "made for first time viewers" excuse doesn't work to me when you see all the inconsistencies they've created.

Offline DirectDK

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #112 on: January 07, 2013, 03:17:39 AM »
Hey all.  Just wanted to share that today I had a Berserk movie marathon with some buddies of mine.  Incantation came too (see if you can spot him lol).  We watched movies 1 and 2 back to back.  Of the 11 of us, 5 of us have seen the '97 anime.  3 of us have read the manga.  And the other 6, this is their first Berserk experience.

:serpico: :guts: :slan:


The nerd in me also made some movie tickets, required upon entry into my quarters. :griffnotevil:

We had an awesome ass time.  Everyone here REALLY enjoyed the 2nd movie.  And there were a ton of vocal reactions throughout.  Either gasps or "holy shits" or laughs.  There was an incredible amount of laughter during the Gennon scenes, and a ton during the parade / ballroom scenes.  In a good way!  And when the movie was done, and that glimpse of movie 3 is shown at the end, all of them were like "WHAT????? When can we watch THAT?!"

I asked them all to rate the movie according to this poll.  Not counting me (you guys already know I voted "excellent"), there were 4 "excellent" and 6 "good".  One newcomer liked it so much he said he's going to start reading the manga tonight.

One had a lot of questions about Griffith's and Gennon's history.  Also, a few people were curious about the King's obsession with Charlotte.  I told them the gory and pervy details.  They all shrieked.  Lol.

Overall, it was a real fun time, and you better believe I'll be doing this again for movie 3! :serpico:


Offline Nomad

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #113 on: January 07, 2013, 04:03:56 AM »
Hey all.  Just wanted to share that today I had a Berserk movie marathon with some buddies of mine.  Incantation came too (see if you can spot him lol).  We watched movies 1 and 2 back to back.  Of the 11 of us, 5 of us have seen the '97 anime.  3 of us have read the manga.  And the other 6, this is their first Berserk experience.

That's pretty nice dude.  Looks like it was lots of fun so I'm glad you guys had a good time.  Though I think the anime is beyond bad, I truly am glad that someone enjoyed it.  At some point I'll dash in my two-cents once this third one comes out.

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #114 on: January 07, 2013, 04:17:44 AM »
I asked them all to rate the movie according to this poll.  Not counting me (you guys already know I voted "excellent"), there were 4 "excellent" and 6 "good".
...
Overall, it was a real fun time, and you better believe I'll be doing this again for movie 3! :serpico:
What did you put in their drinks?  :troll:

Seriously though, I'm glad you guys had fun. I've hosted movie-themed parties too, but usually for things like The Room and Dead Alive. Always a good time. But ya know... surrounded by Berserk memorabilia, handed printed movie tickets, and in the company of friends, were any of them really going to tell you to your face: "Nah, man. Your movie night really sucked." ?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #115 on: January 07, 2013, 05:26:43 AM »


I found Incantation! What a trickster, wearing the Skully armor. :badbone:

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #116 on: January 07, 2013, 06:14:19 AM »
I found Incantation! What a trickster, wearing the Skully armor. :badbone:
Daahahahaha I WISH!! That's awesome, thanks :farnese:

I'm sure the majority of us were ready to partake in sexual favors just so you could magically get us movie 3 tonight hah. Thanks for hosting and delaying the watching of the film so I could join'n'watch it with everyone.

I cast my vote as Good for good and bad things about this movie, not going to list all of it. The CG was less jarring this time around, not perfect. The music theme was actually present - flowing with the tone of the scene which I wasn't expecting after the lack of (good) music arrangement in the first movie (DirectDK's surround sound setup enhanced the listening experience). I'd only read Aazealh's review and could notice most points he mentioned and how the scene was subsequently changed because of it. It does set a different tone for the movie than what we read in the manga. I thought the swordplay was super fast, I'd personally like to re-watch the movie to get a better sense for the pace of the action sequences. There's a lot to comment on/ talk about.

What did you put in their drinks?  :troll:

Seriously though, I'm glad you guys had fun. I've hosted movie-themed parties too, but usually for things like The Room and Dead Alive. Always a good time. But ya know... surrounded by Berserk memorabilia, handed printed movie tickets, and in the company of friends, were any of them really going to tell you to your face: "Nah, man. Your movie night really sucked." ?
It was in those potato chips I got, I tell you haha! From what I could see, the group was vocal and animated while watching it, looked like they had fun with the 2nd one more than the 1st. One did ask about Gennon and they were a little mad when the movie ended because they wanted more of it. The guy who asked to borrow the manga was completely new to the series, not having watched the 97 anime, so that was encouraging. Most of them haven't read the manga, so they don't know what's taken out from the original story and took the movies for what they were. So for what these movies offer, they thought it was Good or Excellent or like one exclaimed jokingly Embarrassingly Excellent.
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Offline Oburi

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #117 on: January 07, 2013, 08:02:46 PM »
Name me a single forum member here that has refused to watch the movies. Everyone Berserk fan will watch them, they truly have to. Even if it's to watch them and tear them to shreds.

I watched the first movie months ago and I have no desire to see any of the others. I didn't watch it to hate it either. I went in with an open mind and it just didn't do anything for me. So I can honestly say there's no temptation for me to ever watch more of these movies. It's just a byproduct of the manga which I love so much. But unlike the statues or other collectables, it's just not very good.

Offline Death May Die

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #118 on: January 07, 2013, 10:43:09 PM »
But this is ultimately about the movies themselves, and I feel like I was able to separate it from the manga and give it a fair shake, and I liked it.

Quote
The Bonfire of Dreams] Those scenes by and large don't matter or don't warrant the time on screen to convey their point.

Dude...

You're really reaching out there for the sake of these very stripped down anime movie adaptions. You think Berserk will be remembered by these new adaptions? Most of the people that I know who have seen it, instantly see its flaws. Not by comparison of the manga, but by comparison of the original anime. People know what is missing, and what should be there. Because they knew what scenes had impact, and what scenes stood out to them upon viewing the original anime. A lot of those scenes and moments are gone. Thats not even including how the original anime failed the manga in so many ways. Its pretty bad when you fuck up the reboot of a anime that was a bit sketchy itself. Now not trying to get over my head and say that these new adaptions are even a reboot of the original anime, if these new adaptions are a pure manga source adaption then it failed even more.

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #119 on: January 08, 2013, 12:11:20 AM »
I watched the first movie months ago and I have no desire to see any of the others. I didn't watch it to hate it either. I went in with an open mind and it just didn't do anything for me. So I can honestly say there's no temptation for me to ever watch more of these movies.

A better man than I. :azan:> (He's supposed to be saluting =)

Most of the people that I know who have seen it, instantly see its flaws. Not by comparison of the manga, but by comparison of the original anime. People know what is missing, and what should be there. Because they knew what scenes had impact, and what scenes stood out to them upon viewing the original anime. A lot of those scenes and moments are gone. Thats not even including how the original anime failed the manga in so many ways. Its pretty bad when you fuck up the reboot of a anime that was a bit sketchy itself. Now not trying to get over my head and say that these new adaptions are even a reboot of the original anime, if these new adaptions are a pure manga source adaption then it failed even more.

 :ubik:

At times it feels like such a poor man's version of the '97 anime that I think the only reason they didn't adapt the added Adon sequences was because they simply didn't have the time, just like anything else. Those scenes are probably on par with Casca's past or the Bonfire of Dreams to them (and Cronus, apparently :iva:) It was probably a close call between adapting that or Guts' departure from the Falcons; I mean, we could have just inferred he left by his absence and it would have been just as good. Hell, Miura could just whisper the ending of the manga in the project director's ear, Studio 4C can animate it into 20 minutes, and we'll watch it and be done with the whole series! You know the saying, "it's not the journey," or something.

Ok, I'm done now. :griffnotevil:

BerserkFL

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #120 on: January 09, 2013, 12:46:58 AM »
Aazealh appears to have deleted my post where I said some praise for the new movies. Is that the kind of forum this place is? Get on the hate bandwagon or get out? This is what he had to say:

Quote
Wait, I thought your passion was reserved for the manga?

So how about you stop wasting people's time here with your non-opinions and maybe, I don't know, post about the latest episode or something? Thanks.

My non-opinions? My opinion is you can enjoy it if you take it for what it is and if never compared to the Manga in the first place you will be fine. Plus I like how my cousin's enjoying it means nothing to you guys cause if you think about it it's a good thing. I was introduced to the Manga via the original anime. Before that I never had read manga before. At the end of movie 3 I know my cousin't are going to want more and I'll be lending out my mangas to them I'm sure. They wouldn't have otherwise ever given them a read.

So there......the movies aren't all bad. In some ways they will introduce a new generation to the mangas just like the old anime introduced some of us.

Online Walter

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #121 on: January 09, 2013, 02:39:48 AM »
Aazealh appears to have deleted my post where I said some praise for the new movies. Is that the kind of forum this place is? Get on the hate bandwagon or get out?
It had nothing to do with your opinion, and I'm pretty sure you know that. Your post was antagonizingly stupid, and garbage gets removed from time to time at our discretion. Deal with it or leave. Want to complain further? Send a PM.

PS: Welcome to SKnet.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

BerserkFL

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #122 on: January 09, 2013, 05:55:52 AM »
Well with that I'm dipping out then. You guys are a bit more serious/intense than what I am used to at other forums. I've said my piece and it's likely I'll have good things to say about the next film, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to share those thoughts here  :magni:

One can only hear the removal of the bonfire of dreams complaint so many times LOL

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #123 on: January 09, 2013, 07:50:58 AM »
Aazealh appears to have deleted my post where I said some praise for the new movies.

Nice misrepresentation of what happened. You were being whiny and sassy, not actually saying any praise (or much else) on the movie at all but rather complaining once more that people dared "take it seriously" or disagree with you while you were so cool and detached, etc. Same BS you've been spewing for 2 pages now, and derailing the thread in the process after DirectDK and IncantatioN had brought it back on track.

Well with that I'm dipping out then. You guys are a bit more serious/intense than what I am used to at other forums.

"I might appear new here but I've been visiting this forum for god, has it been 5 years or longer now? Hell could be 10 years I've lost track."

Offline Griffith

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #124 on: January 10, 2013, 02:43:40 AM »
"I might appear new here but I've been visiting this forum for god, has it been 5 years or longer now? Hell could be 10 years I've lost track."

Yeah, such an obvious phony. How dare this weasel impugn SK.net's honor!? :badbone: Since BerserkFL likes making public administrative action, for full disclosure here's the thoughtful defense of the film that he got so self-righteous over:

Quote
What do you mean you guys enjoyed it? Haven't you been reading this thread? Movies are garbage and deserve no praise. My cousins enjoyed it but that matters very little to everyone so you and your friends enjoying it is wrong too.

I'm kidding of course. For what they are they are enjoyable films. As a fan of the manga and original anime it's certainly ok to enjoy these movies. Regardless of what other tell you here  :slan:

Yup, that's it, BerserkFL's "post where [he] said some praise for the new movies." Though, this doesn't quite do it justice, because this masterful prose followed a quote of DirectDK's post IN FULL, picture and everything, no reformatting or editing whatsoever, just a duplicate followed by those two lines to form a gigantic eyesore of a shitpost that hit all the marks: no new thought, no contribution, ugly, repetitive, divergent, irrelevant, petulant, trolling, etc etc (and it even managed to create a pseudo double-post =). Also, he wasn't kidding of course, the real point of his post was so transparently not about the movies or even DirectDK's and his friends enjoyment of them, but whining about his cousins and his nonsense getting shut down. It's not out of bounds for bad posts like that to be deleted and the poster told to try harder, but his reaction was.

Judging from BerserkFL's generous description of his own work after the fact, he didn't expect anyone to actually see it; thus, his disingenuous attempt to make himself look like a victim instead of someone that can't understand why Berserk fans would rather have a good adaptation of the series than crap viewing for his cousins. Though, it's the implied attack on our integrity that compels me to write this, because if one does read this thread, they'd see plenty of defense for the film, that's challenged and debated, not deleted. I guess that's what was too "serious/intense" for BerserkFL to handle, culminating in this sorry final act.

One can only hear the removal of the bonfire of dreams complaint so many times LOL

A fitting epitaph for the manga's biggest fake fan. :schierke:

Anyway, can't wait for his cousins to start shitposting the forums, then I'll REALLY see the value of the films!