Poll

How would you rate this movie?

Excellent
10 (8.9%)
Good
37 (33%)
So-so
25 (22.3%)
Poor
24 (21.4%)
Embarrassing
16 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 107

Author Topic: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]  (Read 67403 times)

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Offline Walter

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2012, 02:51:05 PM »
I see two relatively positive reviews, but 2 votes for excellent, and 4 votes for good. Where are the other reviews supporting these positions?  :daiba:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline JezzaX

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2012, 07:09:36 PM »
I see two relatively positive reviews, but 2 votes for excellent, and 4 votes for good. Where are the other reviews supporting these positions?  :daiba:

I agree, I'm interested to hear those views. I'm actually somewhat envious of those who classify the film as excellent and can't see or don't care about the flaws.

Offline Hanma_Baki

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2012, 08:08:06 PM »
Not that it really matters but in case you assume I was one of the "Excellent" voters, I voted "Good" :) and yeah I would also like to see the those elaborate their feedback. But my guess is they see it like "Fuck it, its Berserk, so I'll support it 100% no matter what" that about it? :iva:

Offline Jackolyn

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 08:22:49 PM »
I agree, I'm interested to hear those views. I'm actually somewhat envious of those who classify the film as excellent and can't see or don't care about the flaws.
I am one of the two people who voted excellent, however in saying that; I am completely aware of all of the flaws that this movie has, both technically and accuracy wise. I am just as disappointed with the cuts and minor changes that they made, (especially the Bonfire of Dreams scene) however I watched this film for what it was and I loved every second of it.
Yes, the CGI and animation were weak at times, but rarely did it distract me from the story; and the same goes for the cuts made. Yes, they changed a few things, but I believe that those changes add to the cinematic quality of the film. No, its not EXACTLY like the manga, but this is not a manga; this is a movie adaption, and so changes to the fight sequences and the removal of certain scenes did not take away from the film as a whole, nor did it dampen the impact of the story line within this particular segment of the arc.
I loved the scale of this film much better than the first, (though this particular portion of this Arc is generally a lot more interesting than the first third) and I loved the cinematic direction that the film took; it looked much better than the first film by far.
My favorite thing about this film though (and this goes for the first movie as well) is how they portray and animate the characters emotion. The body language and facial expressions that's animated is truly something else. The smallest gesture of the hand, the subtle changes in expression and posture, each characters fighting style; its remarkable how accurately they captured the emotion and action from the manga to the film. (Even if the CG models are a bit flat as far as expression goes) the hand drawn characters are beautifully done.(And to add to that, the music in this film was also MUCH better. I've lost count of how many times that I've listened to the soundtrack on its own; but while watching the movie it was like I was hearing all of the songs again for the first time.)
I admit there are flaws in this movie, both on its own and especially when compared to the manga; however all in all I really did enjoy it for what it was. I thought that it was very well put together, and that its not impossible to overlook the flaws in this film when compared to the manga. I took it for what it was, and I really did love it.  :guts:

Offline frankencowx

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2012, 08:34:20 PM »
however I watched this film for what it was and I loved every second of it.
Why do people keep saying this? It doesn't make any sense. You are aware of what it is/was (a subpar mediocre below average adaptation), but you love it anyways? No se.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2012, 08:48:45 PM »
Why do people keep saying this? It doesn't make any sense. You are aware of what it is/was (a subpar mediocre below average adaptation), but you love it anyways? No se.

Yeah, I don't get it either. If you know it is flawed and are disappointed by said flaws, logic dictates you should rate it something other than "excellent", even if you had a good time. Just sayin'.

Yes, they changed a few things, but I believe that those changes add to the cinematic quality of the film. [...] No, its not EXACTLY like the manga, but this is not a manga; this is a movie adaption, and so changes to the fight sequences and the removal of certain scenes did not take away from the film as a whole, nor did it dampen the impact of the story line within this particular segment of the arc.

No offense but that sounds like BS to me.

Offline Skullgrin140

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2012, 09:10:40 PM »
Well having now seen Golden Age Arc II I can at least share my thoughts on it.

Keeping in mind so far this film series and my thoughts towards it are as they are with the first film, I really wanted to like this film so much after at least seeing a few trailers to see what they would push on. This movie on the other hand really feels like it's trying way too hard with what it is able to do such as cramming in way too much in the limited time the film runs for, So many edits made to the story and I really feel like with the amount of character development and backstory this film decreased in horribly the film really just feels flat when it comes to the characters we already know.

Although if there are a few things that I did like in terms of things they added in this film which the TV series never had was the finale with the King of Midland torturing Griffith but at the same time not exchanging as much wordplay between each-other and having Griffith's words eventually break the King both mentally & physically. Plus the supposed sex scene between both Charlotte & Griffith is what it is so I won't say anymore.

The CGI...The CGI I feel is getting from bad to worse as these films are pushing on, it just looks so unfinished and like something pulled out of a PS2 game. On the other hand though the backgrounds for what they are are still beautifully drawn and well detailed, so art-wise the film (from a visual standpoint) has quite alot of downs with only a few ups to make it really stand out.

However as if that wasn't enough, I really feel the unnecessary cameos of Azan, Farnese, Serpico & Puck added absolutely nothing to this film whatsoever from a storytelling degree, I feel that was the films way of hinting to the audience (Keep an eye out for these characters in future movies :carcus:)

The film is trying way too hard, that's the main problem. So much cut out that was so crucial to the story and not much needed development from most of the main cast which is what this film desperately needed. I'm sticking with this trilogy to see how it ends in movie III just to see how much the mediocrity of a great story is stretched even further.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 09:31:31 PM by Skullgrin140 »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2012, 09:49:35 PM »
I really feel the unnecessary cameos of Azan, Farnese, Serpico & Puck added absolutely nothing to this film whatsoever from a storytelling degree

Not only did it not bring anything to the story, it actually makes no sense at all to have them there. Farnese, Serpico and Azan have absolutely no reason to be at that ball.

First off, during that time it's doubtful Farnese was even leader of the H.I.C.K. yet, since in volume 22 they mention it's been 3 years since the winter Serpico's mother burned (same year Farnese was appointed leader), and that balls takes place a year before the Occultation ceremony, after which two years elapse before we see Guts again in the Lost Children chapter.

Beyond that, when they traveled to Midland they were on a mission to find the "Falcon of Darkness" from the prophecy, so being at a ball to celebrate the victory of Midland in a war between two nations that were both under the influence of the Holy See is incongruous to say the least. As for Puck, why is he in a cage (from which he could escape just by squeezing through the bars) exactly? He was travelling with those guys of his own free will, as shown in volume 12.

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2012, 10:11:31 PM »
Lots of spoilers ahead.

Okay, I just back into town and got a chance to watch Berserk: The Capture of Doldrey.  Itís a mixed bag.  I was pleasantly surprised at many parts, thought many scenes worked great, but found huge fault with fundamental aspects of it.  Having now seen the first two films, Iím convinced now that this series is made for those who are already familiar with Berserk.  Itís like a mix tape of someoneís favorite Berserk scenes that cuts out anything that might be considered dull or slow, regardless of the consequences it has on the plot.  An audience member new to berserk will need to infer a lot of character development that is just no longer present.  Even some of the plot has logical holes in it that will come off as just confusing.  Many of these things could have been solved with an additional 10 minutes of run time and chopping out some of the more indulgent sequences like the ball, the cameos, and Charlotteís sex scene.

So what about this movie worked?

The opening.  The film cuts out Griffith saying goodbye to Charlotte with the lode stone, the verbal sparring with Foss, and the army leaving Midland.  It just opens with battle.  And it works.  Guts is still reeling from the fountain speech and without all the scenes in between that and the Adon fight, it still feels fresh to us.  

While I love the scene with Foss, especially the Hawk stare ending, without him present in the first film, this makes sense as fat to cut.  I barely missed it, though it does have long term impacts that Iíll get to later.

Also Iíd go so far to say that the war itself feels more like an actual campaign then it does in the manga or anime.   I think it has to do with the proximity of events together and a few thrown in scenes of the king and his advisers moving unit positions around on maps.  As little as it is, it goes a long way when youíre watching it.  The Golden Age battles in the manga and anime have always had a disconnect from each other.  There was a randomness to them that isnít really a problem here.  So thatís good.

Cave scene is abridged but works.  The flashback for Casca is shortened, but it doesnít surprise me that they cut a 15 minute flashback from here.  It moves the story quickly and we get the essentials of Cascaís rescue by Griffith (in patented strobe flashbackÖ).

Next we have the the 100 man fight.   Itís great.  Samson isnít here, but I donít miss him at all.  With Gutís battles with Adon, Boscogn and eventually Griffith, it doesnít feel like thereís a lack of strong opponents to fight.  Personally, in this compressed time frame it might have appeared like a videogame boss fight.  The animation is great for the fight and the music really shines here.  The battle is bloody, and creatively brutal.  Much more so than the first film.  I only have two complaints here: Cascaís not involved for long in the fight and her chase is pretty un-engaging, and Guts makes a couple Super Mario jumps.  Nothing too bad, but enough to annoy.

Also a big change with the rescue: Griffith is a part of it.  This was probably done to streamline the whole bonfire of dreams cut (Casca being upset at his absence and all), but it really undermines Judeau and Cascaís character development.  

So instead of Guts getting stitched up, Judeau giving Casca elf dust, the bonfire of dreams, or Griffith returning to see Guts and Casca, we cut right to the White Tigerís unsuccessfully besieging Doldrey.   This creates a garbage truck sized hole in character development for all of our characters.  We lose foreshadowing of Guts departure, hinting at Judeauís feelings for Casca, Griffith returning from an important war council for his FRIENDS.  Important stuff.  Not to mention that the elf dust makes Guts recovery somewhat realistic.

Next, Griffith attends the Kingís Doldrey war council and it seems to be fairly faithful.  And dull.  A bunch of advisers weíve never seen before give there opinion that Doldrey is unbeatable for like five minutes and then Griffith says he can do it if the King wants him to.  If any scene could use abridgement, this could be one.

Doldrey is done well, but less memorable than the 100 man fight which felt more personal.  It hits all the right beats and even has Corkus shining at a few points.  Pippin and Rickert as well.  Judeau however gets the short end of the stick in both character development and action in the film.  He never even throws a knife in a single battle.  The battle was fairly faithful except for two exceptions: The use of Adon to sneak into the castle, and the lack of Zoddís intervention.

Casca using Adon to infiltrate the castle is a good way to link the two battles, and in a way it seems more realistic than Doldrey just leaving the gates open for them to storm.  On the other hand, wouldnít they be suspicious at Adonís sudden appearance during the battle?  Especially if his forces were known to have been defeated?  Anyway, once inside Cascaís small group opens the gate for a larger force, but Adon breaks free and challenges her.  Thereís no poison arrow, but the fight works well.   Even Adonís death is even an improvement in my opinion.  Another thing this improves is some of the goofiness of Adonís character.  Gone is the ridiculous shark armor and slap stick. He feels like a real threat and therefore his defeat at Cascaís hands has more meaning.

Cutting Zodd couldíve worked.  In the original, he seems to appear randomly and has murky motivations unless discussed at length.  More than anything it feels like Deus Ex Machina.  In my opinion the one thing Zoddís appearance really helps with is the reminder that there is a larger supernatural force out there.  In this film, that is utterly lacking.  But even though I say that cutting Zodd couldíve worked, the way they handled it did not.  Gotz catches a falling flag from a Hawk Boscogn killed and distracts him with it.  Or something.  Itís not very clear.  Then he chops off his head.  It doesnít feel like Guts is ever really in danger, and Boscognís death feels less powerful than it does in both the anime or manga.  Itís pretty disappointing.

Ah now, what about Gennon?  Well our santa clause version of him seems to have an obsession with Griffith but itís unclear if thereís an implied history between them.  No subtitles.  Other than the lack of flashback regarding Gennon and Griffith (and Casca and Griffith in the river afterward), it seems to play very faithful to the manga.  Gennon is clearly ordering Griffith to be spared, takes over command from Boscogn, and even kills an officer thatís about to ambush Griffith.  After the battle, he and Griffith have a substantial dialogue before Griffith kills him.

After the battle is an odd montage of fallen soldiers on the battle field as well as Gennonís slain slave boys.  Weird.  The horrors of war I guess.

The parade is pretty faithful.  Corkus kisses some girl, but it doesnít take much time.  

And then the fucking Ball.  My god is this ponderous and filled with long winded speeches.  The only useful thing is Guts talking to Casca which seems to be doing the same job as bonfire of dreams in the directorís mind.  The Queen is present here during the Kingís speech, but has no lines or importance.  Window dressing really.  Farnese, Serpico and Azan are present, but have no interaction with anything.  Pointless.  After the Kingís speech, instead Griffith being poisoned, everyone dances.  Griffith with Charlotte, the hawk captains with random girls, and of course Guts and Casca.  Guts seems to finially be happy.

Cut to Guts leaving.  No reason given.  Casca doesnít see him and try to stop him.  Judeau and Corkus donít talk with him at the bar.  Guts walks out of town and apparently somehow the Hawks have anticipated this and are waiting for him.  Whatever.   The scene itself seems pretty faithful.  Rickert doesnít understand why, Corkus gives a piece of his mind, and Griffith challenges him.  Casca tries to stop them but Pippen and Judeau tell her not to interfere.  Personally I think the anime did a better job.  

So Guts leaves and we have the Charlotte sex scene.  Itís pretty ridiculous and gets borderline pornographic when Griffith goes down on her.  Iím not kidding.  Griffith has his Guts flash backs and everything else goes down as in the manga.  

Then we get a prolonged cameo of Guts walking past a wagon with Puck in a cage.  Itís like a minute and a half and nothing happens except Guts looking back as if he sensed something.  Bonfire of Dreams for this?  Really?

Then we have Midlandís attack on the Hawks.   Itís faithful for the most part.  Its pretty brutal at first but then Casca and pals are riding among a torrent of arrows like thereís no problem.   Itíd be better if Casca took the arrows as she did in the Manga.

Griffithís whipping by the king works, and it looks as though Griffith does taunt him about his daughter.  The King doesnít confront his daughter.  We end the movie with the torturer fumbling the beherit into the drain.  

The biggest problem overall with the film though is the absolute lack of interaction between Gotz and Griffith.  I honestly donít think they say two words to each other.  I donít know if this was intended, but by cutting out the hill of swords recovery, and the talk they have after the assassination their relationship is weakened.  This is further problematic when you consider the stuff that was cut from the first film such as Gutsís first battle with the hawks and the *cough* bath scene.   Furthermore, aside from their relationship suffering (and it really is pivotal to make the Eclipse poignant) Griffith has very little to do in this film.  He is just there and happens to be the Hawks leader.  People notice him at the ball.  He fights Guts.  For Ö some reason.  For a new audience member, I donít feel like thereís enough connective tissue.  And thatís a major problem.  

What these movies do well is action (most of the time) and beautiful visuals.  They handle plot pretty well considering the compression they need to do.  But they have utterly sacrificed character aside from the broad strokes.  And character is so important for where this story is going.  Itís what keeps Berserk from being a mindless action manga thatís ďbadass,Ē and instead an amazing story that resonates with audiences all over.   Unfortunately this movie series is skirting pretty close at times to the former.  But not always.

Iím interested to see it with subtitles soon, and very interested to see what they do with the third film.  I enjoyed this film quite a bit, despite many misgivings.  Most of the problems it causes are down the line and because I know the story I can anticipate their impact.  But as a movie itself, the pacing is quite a bit better than the first, and I feel like we get to know Casca and Guts much more than we did before.  The action is mostly great and the parts included are largely faithful.  I wish there was more character interaction and less assumption that audiences know the story.  

Overall Iíd give it three out of five stars.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:28:05 AM by ApostleBob »

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2012, 12:19:19 AM »
I appreciate you for writing such a detailed review.  :ubik:

Offline dasfdeas

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2012, 04:04:20 AM »
I really hate to say this, but I'm now at the point where I think that any chance of a good Berserk anime is squashed.  I'd be curious to know if anyone has a good idea of how this film is doing financially (although with piracy now, who knows what's a good number anyway).  There are just too many damned inconsistencies due to time constrictions and pointless ones like the ballroom scene for me to enjoy it.  I think that looking backward, I would have rather they made some one shot (one film) stories set during the Black Swordsman arc a la the Dreamcast game, or just simply animated the Black Swordsman arc.  Oh well, I'll still buy the releases if only to support the series, but it's just a bummer all around.

Offline puppet12ca

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2012, 06:43:48 AM »
Beyond that, when they traveled to Midland they were on a mission to find the "Falcon of Darkness" from the prophecy, so being at a ball to celebrate the victory of Midland in a war between two nations that were both under the influence of the Holy See is incongruous to say the least.

Meh I thought about that and the only theory I could come up with is that Farnese was mainly there to show the Church's support for the armistice agreement public reason god favours peace and cooperation between nations, actual reason less in-fighting within the holy see means a steadier stream of cooperation taxes and/or donations to the church itself from nations under its influence.

I mean they were prompted to try and find the red lake and subsequently the fifth angel by the eclipse which has not happened yet so that's the only other reason I can think of them being there but I guess its a bit of a stretch

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2012, 09:20:53 AM »
I really hate to say this, but I'm now at the point where I think that any chance of a good Berserk anime is squashed.  I'd be curious to know if anyone has a good idea of how this film is doing financially (although with piracy now, who knows what's a good number anyway).  There are just too many damned inconsistencies due to time constrictions and pointless ones like the ballroom scene for me to enjoy it.  I think that looking backward, I would have rather they made some one shot (one film) stories set during the Black Swordsman arc a la the Dreamcast game, or just simply animated the Black Swordsman arc.  Oh well, I'll still buy the releases if only to support the series, but it's just a bummer all around.

Not good 4977BD/1223DVD, total 6,200
But the first movie is the 19th most rented anime in Japan this year
No number for any but the 9th most rented, which sold 45,000

Offline Darkman

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2012, 12:25:11 PM »
Hey guys, I haven't seen any discussion of this, so for those who have seen Movie 2 is skull knight in it?  The scene at the beginning of volume 9 I would think would be in it.  Otherwise they are sticking it in at the beginning of Movie 3 which I suppose could work.  To totally omit that scene is just ridiculous, that is very important foreshadowing 
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Some to serve and some to feast
Avert your eyes from the sky
The lies of God and the God of lies
And even forests once lush and green
Have the stench of murder and children's screams
But bird of prey in your eyes is where our heavens lie
But bird of prey in your eyes is where our future lies"

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Offline Draculoid

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2012, 01:04:39 PM »
That scene has been shown in numerous previews and will definitely be in part 3. I'd say there would be slight need for concern with all their cuts and the orders of events in the manga, but with how they've been doing things they've pushed Skull Knight from the very start as a sort of "Hey guys look how accurate we are!! We have this important character who was omitted in the original here!!" and cram him into ever preview and trailer.

  The last scene with Guts in movie 2 is when he defeats Griffith, which ends volume 8. Volume 9 opens with Guts and SK followed by Griffith and Charlotte, Griffiths torture and the Hawks being attacked (the King attempting to rape Charlotte is omitted). I feel it is only logical the third movie will open with Guts and SK, which is actually a really good choice on their part. Would really set the tone of the film.

Also I really don't have much to say after seeing the film. I thought I was going to enjoy it a lot more than I did based on all of the reviews saying it was "improved" over the first. I'm still holding out hope that I will at least enjoy some of the animation in movie 3.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 05:52:25 PM by Draculoid »
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2012, 01:14:28 PM »
that's the only other reason I can think of them being there but I guess its a bit of a stretch

Yeah, quite a stretch I'd say.

Offline Lukis

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2012, 02:59:35 PM »
Finally got my copy and watched it ..and voted for So-so ..movie is pretty average and movie 1 looks even worse now compared to this one... again that CGI in so many places was a real buzz killer,they could at least draw main character faces in close up. Again raped plot and basically movie was Big fight,minor character development. I think if some one new to Berserk would watch all 3 movies,poor guy would get mind fucked real hard. When people will see movie 3 ,lord help them understand whats going on  :femto: .. Few good things were 100 man battle which was pretty awesome. Party was pretty well made too,enjoyed Farneses and Serpicos and that Dwarfs(forgot his name,so ashamed) cameos. Overall movie was like ''meh'',but I seriously hope 3rd movie will be awesome,if not im scared for rest of saga(if their foing to do it).
Puck looked really great thou  :carcus:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2012, 07:44:44 PM »
Dwarfs(forgot his name,so ashamed)

Are you talking about Azan? If so, he's not a dwarf; he's human.

Offline Lukis

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2012, 08:02:14 PM »
Are you talking about Azan? If so, he's not a dwarf; he's human.
It was meant as jk ..yeah Azan,will try to remember that ..just saw Hobbit today so all Short,beardy guys associates with dwarfs  :azan: ..

Offline Hanma_Baki

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2012, 12:44:19 AM »
...nor did it dampen the impact of the story line within this particular segment of the arc.
Heres where I really disagree.

As for Puck, why is he in a cage (from which he could escape just by squeezing through the bars) exactly? He was travelling with those guys of his own free will...
Wow... I remeber I kinda had the same thoughts but I guess I repressed them or something, like my mind´s defense mechanism in order not to receive trauma... It did now though :judo:

...

Nice! I think you´re pretty much spot-on everything, thanks for sharing your thoughts in detail.

EDIT:

Oh yeah,
Also a big change with the rescue: Griffith is a part of it.
I was going to adress this but forgot to somehow. Anyway this is one of the parts I really think they handled well and creatively considering they cut so much else. Im not saying I prefer it like this but wouldnt´ve mind if they´d still stick with it even if they´d included the Bonfire/Judeau/Elf dust etc... Still, of course its so obvious for us old fans what a desperate attempt at giving Griffith screen time this really is :iva:

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2012, 05:17:36 PM »
Question for JezzaX, Gobolatula ... and everyone else who's reviewed the movie so far in this topic - Is the dialog between characters far off from what's in the manga? (For instance, Griffith or Guts saying something completely else on screen than what's said in that same scene in the manga).
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Offline Lukis

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2012, 05:58:10 PM »
Well from what I understand in Japanese it's mostly similiar,like Adon braging about his secret attacks being passed from generation to generation . Also Guts thinking about why he's fighting and such. So dialogs are somewht faithful to manga :iva:

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2012, 11:41:23 PM »
As far as I could tell, MOSTLY. There is a lot of stuff missing, like Griffith making his post-killing comment to Gennon. And some conversations are shifted around like some of the "bonfire of dreams" conversation shows up at the ball. I'm sure Walter can go into it further on tomorrow's podcast.

Offline Walter

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Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2012, 02:12:47 AM »
Is the dialog between characters far off from what's in the manga? (For instance, Griffith or Guts saying something completely else on screen than what's said in that same scene in the manga).
When things are on track, it's pretty much line for line exactly like in the manga. However, sometimes they conflate different scenes or simply generate new content to suit the new scene.

A good example is Guts and Casca outside the ball--Guts hasn't yet hinted to her that he's leaving (since they excised the Bonfire of Dreams scene...), so instead, a portion of his dialogue is pulled from the scene in the manga when Casca catches up to him in the snow (another scene that was cut/merged), and Guts says that he, "can't remain buried under his dream." Unfortunately, all the relevant stuff Guts said during the bar scene is left on the cutting room floor in this adaptation. Oh well.

It seems to me that some other scenes are extended beyond their purview in the manga though. As Gobs points out, while in the movie Griffith may not say anything to Gennon after he stabs him, his dialogue before the stab appears to be extended.

Those were the only sequences I bothered to check. While I'm not a native Japanese speaker, I can read Japanese pretty well and compare it to what's written. Will have more to say on it in tomorrow's show.
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Offline Roderick

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2012, 09:44:48 AM »
Okay, watched the full, uncut feature today on DVD and I'll sum up my experience.  The last 20 minutes of the film is some of the best Berserk-related animation in recent memory.  Everything before is mostly embarrassing.  It's like there were two different movies being made--one low-budget CGI feature that has no business in a movie theater and one very nice-looking hand-drawn/2-D feature that save the movie from being a waste of time.  Too bad the heavy CGI segments nearly dominate everything up to the ballroom scene.

The movie starts out alright with the Hawks battling Adon and his men, and the Guts/Casca scene at the beginning just before the 100 man fight looks as good as I would expect from a theatrical feature.  The CGI didn't look quite as awful as I remembered from the first feature with some generally good quality cel-shading, and the scenes of Guts rescuing Casca and spending those tender moments had some great animation.  With some reservations.

The dream sequence involving Casca being saved from the rapist has to be one of the most self-indulgent scenes in the whole movie.  Not content-wise (though heavily cut from the manga) but in the overly obvious "this is a dream" pretentiousness practically overshadowing what is going in the dream itself.  Thankfully, it's the only such dream sequence used in the movie.  As mentioned months ago, the flashback is cut to the bone to just show Casca's rescue.  Nothing more.

Once we get to the 100 man fight, the movie really goes down hill.  The action fails to be very engaging on Guts' front, with much of the action looking more like footage of the hack-and-slash gameplay from the Dreamcast video-game.  The carnage and near-hopelessness is his situation is pretty much lost here thanks the the overly shiny and stiff-looking armored mannequins that are suppose to represent ruthless mercenary soldiers. Add to that general lack of grit and sinew that made the manga or even TV anime adaptation so memorable and the video game comparison fits pretty well.  This isn't a knock on video-game-style graphics as by today's standards, this movie's CGI is many notches below the norm--the bloody Playstation 2 3D modelling and animation put much of this movie's attempts to shame.  This goes for Doldrey too in a somewhat lesser extent but any 3-D modelling and cel-shading of anyone outside of the main cast is just piss-poor all around  (and Boscone & Gennon .... *shudder*).

The choreography during this fight and the Doldrey fight is also pretty lacking most of the time, as it is mostly generic hack and slashing motions that often don't even try to use the manga as a guide outside of a few exceptions.  Even the most gory and visceral scenes look weak.  Also the musical accompaniment during the 100 man fight is pretty unusual.  Not terrible per say, but the acoustics don't seem all that appropriate and certainly don't help add to the tension the scene is suppose to convey.    

Casca's escape scenes were alright (minus the shitty CG) though she appears more helpless than in the manga, getting pinned down without taking out any of her captors.  Also, some additional breast grabbing was added to the mix.  Obviously to add to the 3-D theater experience  :carcus:

Then, we get to the more obvious pacing issue(s) in this movie.  After the Hawks save Guts and Casca, capture Adon(??), we get some time for the film to breath a little.  However, all that is included in the film is a few minutes of Midland's armies talking about hiring the Hawks for the capture of Doldrey and introductory footage of Gennon before the climactic battle.  No bonfire of dreams, no character development among the Hawks, not even an explanation of how Guts was ready for a deadly assault after being heavily wounded just moments ago.  Just some brief exposition to keep the action junkies happy with another battle almost right away.

Not much more to say about Doldrey outside it is an improvement if only in sheer scope and somewhat better cinematography.  The CGI scenes look like textureless footage of Total War gameplay, but an epic quality does seep in.  The background artistry far outpaces the foreground animation at times that the movie looks like a work-in-progress rough cut that was released prematurely.  The scenes of the battle are mostly faithful the the manga up to a point.  Adon is used as a hostage for some reason and frees himself to fight Casca this time around with Casca vs Adon ending with a stab through the head.  Boscone shattering Guts' helmet is far less impressive in this movie and the less said about the Zodd-less execution of Boscone the better.

One very unusual (and personally unwanted) addition was the added "cost of war" battle scene panning after Gennon gets killed.  Not only being unnecessary, it also implies that the Hawks killed all of Gennon's servants/slaves in the bathing area.  Uh, okay...

Next comes the nadir of the film--No Hulk Hogan pose done by Carcus :mozgus:  (hyperbole, sure, but it was one of my favorite moments)

As we all know, there is no Foss assassination plot in this film, and the ballroom scene is where it becomes most obvious.  Without the buildup and pay-off of the assassination, the ballroom scenes in this movie come across as needless padding that only builds up to Guts dancing with Casca and the Hawks having a good time.  Though at this point, any additional scenes with the Hawks is welcome since they don't really seem all that developed up until this point in the movie trilogy and they still come across as one-dimensional (outside of Guts, Casca, and Griffith).  I agree with earlier complaints on the ballroom dancing padding, though it's not all that long.  Though the long shots of the waltzing crowds appearing to be depicting animatronic dolls rather than people don't help any.  And the spinning.

Okay, now here's where the movie actually gets good barring one huge hang-up:  Guts immediately starts leaving the Hawks the next scene with hardly any build-up and no actual decision being made by the character prior to this point on screen.  Most of those scenes (Bonfire of dreams, Midland pub scene, etc) were cut for the sake of time constraint.  All we have to go by is the end of Movie 1 where he overhears Griffith talking to Charolette.  While it is an important catalyst for Guts' decision, Movie 2 never brings it up again (outside of the "prologue" before the opening credits) nor is Guts ever shown even toying with the idea of leaving before it happens.  Then I suppose there might be some exposition explaining why Guts is leaving as he's leaving, but it's too late and by this time is far more illogical and selfish on Guts' part than it is depicted in the manga or previous anime adaptation.

However, getting past that, the duel scene is gorgeous and superbly handled, probably the best scene in the movie.  Feature animation at its finest and great direction on one of the iconic scenes in the series.  At this point I actually start getting engrossed into the movie.

No Skullknight encounter in this film, but it may be included in the third movie, so I'm willing to overlook that for now.

What's next is the second-best sequence in the film--Griffith's surprise rendezvous with Charlotte and ensuing sex scene.  No, not because of the sex, but how well the whole scene plays out both in quality animation and direction.  Yes, Charlottes reaction the breast grope is unintentionally funny, but the sex scene itself is both artfully done and convincingly erotic.  The violin piece also adds much to the scene as the action and Griffith's emotional tensions build, ending with the haunting scene of in a fetal position on the bedside.  The cuts to the Hawks spending their last moments of freedom were also well-integrated.

The final torture scene is a well-done closing scene of the film.  While the King's attempted rape isn't shown, his true intentions on Griffith's torture and imprisonment are certainly clear in the film.  Also, its good to see a faithful adaptation of the sadistic torturer and not that blasted goat man from the TV anime.

All-in-all, I'd say it's a step down from the first feature.  The near back-to-back battles and fighting in this film take up the first hour of the movie and is handed pretty poorly to boot character development suffers a lot in this one compared to the first movie, though it's still possible to make sense out of some of the characters' actions in the film (Gennon was surprisingly well handled).  The high artistic standard of the manga cries out for a well-animated adaptation and the predominately CGI character design and animation cheapen it almost beyond recognition.  While sometimes the cel-shading is good, much of it bears no resemblance to Miura's work with the hand drawn scenes taking most of the slack.  There's violence, but there is no artistic quality to it or even comparably gruesome outside of a bizarre depiction of Boscone bathing in a shower of blood as men he decapitated soar into the heavens.  

Really, the movie only really gets its footing after the ballroom and becomes less of a chore to sit through.  Too bad it happens in the last 1/3 of the movie.  All-in-all it is a very uneven movie and not something I will watch in its entirety for a while.

For anyone who cares, I voted "So-so," and that's being very generous.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 10:06:57 AM by Roderick »