Author Topic: School shooting in Connecticut  (Read 6435 times)

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Offline Johnstantine

School shooting in Connecticut
« on: December 14, 2012, 06:40:31 PM »
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1

This makes me sick to my stomach. 18-20 children dead. My heart just breaks thinking about it.

Being a parent, this is something that I couldn't even bare.

Offline Walter

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 07:00:14 PM »
AP reporting the death toll is 27, including 18 children.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 07:41:13 PM »
This, this makes me very sad to hear that.

Offline Draculoid

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2012, 08:26:15 PM »
Very sorry for everybody affected by the event. It's really upsetting seeing these sorts of things happen and repeat. Right before Christmas too.
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Offline Rhombaad

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 09:16:42 PM »
The shooter has been identified. Apparently his mother worked at the school as a teacher. She's thought to be among those killed. They're interviewing his older brother who lives in New Jersey. The press accidentally reported the brother as the shooter earlier, but that's since been corrected. Just awful to hear about another mass shooting this year.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 09:25:10 PM »
Apparently the shooter offed himself as well.

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 03:25:46 PM »
So basically at this point as a Nation we have a four way conversation taking place.

1) Its time to talk gun control: "“The country needs him to send a bill to Congress to fix this problem," Bloomberg wrote. "Calling for ‘meaningful action’ is not enough. We need immediate action. We have heard all the rhetoric before. What we have not seen is leadership – not from the White House and not from Congress. That must end today. This is a national tragedy and it demands a national response.”" Michael Bloomber, Mayor of NYC. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/michael-bloomberg-gun-control-school-shooting_n_2303499.html

2) Don't politicize the event for gun control:"the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) president, referring to yet another shooting, bemoaned the media “[seizing] on the back of this national tragedy to try to piggyback their anti-Second Amendment national agenda right on top of the back of the national tragedy and try to force it on Americans all over the country.” Wayne LaPierre, President of the NRA.  http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-president-criticized-how-national-tragedies-are-used-to-support-gun-control-2012-12#ixzz2F8YPQypa

3) It is too soon to politicize a tragedy like this:"Today's not ... a day to engage in the usual Washington policy debates. That day will come, but today's not that day." Jay Carney, Press Secretary for the White House. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-spokesman-today-not-day-gun-control-talk-190639428--politics.html

4) It's not to soon to make this political: "Sorry but prayers and giving your kids hugs fix nothing; only having the balls to stand up to our insane selfish gun culture will." Bill Maher, comedian. https://www.facebook.com/Maher?fref=ts

Edit: All this translates into is what you find on your Facebook feed, meaningless arguing which will amount to nothing. At this point we have killed those kids a second time.

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 03:41:24 PM »
Fucking vile.

Offline Nomad

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 04:48:07 PM »
Connecticut wasn't the only place that had to deal with this:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/14/15901085-villager-slashes-22-kids-with-knife-at-elementary-school-gates-in-china?lite

This fucking trend has to end.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 08:32:44 PM »
So basically at this point as a Nation we have a four way conversation taking place.

[...]

Edit: All this translates into is what you find on your Facebook feed, meaningless arguing which will amount to nothing. At this point we have killed those kids a second time.

I genuinely wonder how many more such incidents will have to occur until a gun control reform takes place.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 09:23:20 PM »
We lost our gun registration here because of our "super oldschool conservative prime minister" apparently we like to go backward in Canada! that sucks.

Offline Saephon

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 09:28:08 PM »
By the time it's deemed "okay" to have these conversations, another tragedy has occurred. I've personally had absolutely enough of two things:  1) the 24 hour news cycle interviewing victims and families on the DAY OF the incident, and likely showing any future would-be murderers how famous they can be in death.

But most importantly 2)  How much easier it is to obtain a firearm than to obtain quality mental health care. Even if the average American could afford such care (they can't), we've stigmatized it to the point where people are ashamed to admit that they have a problem. It's got to end.
Saephon:  Being tired of your disingenuous assertions since 2183.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 09:34:24 PM »
Did you guys see the head surgeon guy (I'm sorry, I can't remember his title) giving answers to questions? The dude was off his rocker and was not acting at ALL like the tragedy that took place DID take place. He sounded like an idiot and a buffoon, and should not have been the one to answer questions. Someone more qualified should have done it.

Personally, the whole media frenzy surrounding this thing is just vile and almost insulting to everyone watching it.

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 10:16:51 PM »
But most importantly 2)  How much easier it is to obtain a firearm than to obtain quality mental health care. Even if the average American could afford such care (they can't), we've stigmatized it to the point where people are ashamed to admit that they have a problem. It's got to end.

Let's do away with the scape goat of blaming the mentally ill.  The crime rate among the mentally ill is incredibly low and flat out exaggerated by the general public, who most likely is trying to make sense of violence: "mental disorders are neither necessary, nor sufficient causes of violence. The major determinants of violence continue to be socio-demographic and socio-economic factors such as being young, male, and of lower socio-economic status" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/
The monsters that commit these crimes most likely would not seek mental health care, nor would a psychological screening or background check prevent them from getting a gun legally. I think people are going to have to accept that these people are most likely mentally sound and that, aside from a total prohibition on guns, making stricter gun laws won't do anything to curb these problems either.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 07:25:40 PM by Vampire_Hunter_Bob »

Offline hitokiri89

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 02:11:27 AM »
This made me sick almost teared up watching the news . I do blame gun control for this but i think there are other reasons too . Personally l i don't believe anyone who isn't in law enforcement should have a gun . What i really blame these incidents on though is the media . Every news show out there highlighted the shooter and made celebrity out of him and the same happened with the batman movie shooting and all the other incidents like this . Everyone knows the name of the shooter but how many know a single name of the victims ? The way the media is presented is b/s . If this wasn't the norm this jerk might have just offed himself instead of thinking hey i could one up the other shootings and then immortalize my name forever . I think there should be some common sense in the reporting but i never see it . I believe gun law needs to be completely remodeled at the federal level and the media needs to get their s**t together and stop promoting this violence . I even think video games are to blame , when i was a kid if i tried buying a M rated game i couldn't but now when i stop in at my local gamestop or bestbuy the guy behind the counter sells anything to kids . Im only 23 and even i can see that call of duty or gta can inspire real life violence for weak minds and jerks . I might get heat for this but i believe as a nation we're too desensitized to violence and what is right and wrong .

Offline Lithrael

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 05:43:45 PM »
Yeah, we've hit a pretty amazing dystopian low with the media.  It made me really mad to see some of them were interviewing the KIDS.  Fucking hell.  And I think you're right on the money with the idea that this kind of posthumous fame resonates with the kind of people who are hanging by their last angry, impotent thread, and encourages fantasies, that can turn into realities, of going out in a horrifying blaze of anti-glory.

I doubt gun control was much of an issue with this one though; apparently the weapons were his mother's.  If it points to anything as far as gun control, it's maybe something stronger than a firm recommendation that you keep your weapons in a gun safe that other people can't open.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 06:11:41 PM »
An especially strict gun reform, or total prohibition, would lead to a second Civil War.

:schierke:

I doubt gun control was much of an issue with this one though; apparently the weapons were his mother's.  If it points to anything as far as gun control, it's maybe something stronger than a firm recommendation that you keep your weapons in a gun safe that other people can't open.

To me that's included in the general idea of having a gun control reform. This stuff should be mandatory. And yeah she loved guns, took her kids to the range, etc. It's pretty baffling to me that you guys can't drink a beer until you're 21 but can learn to shoot a gun before you hit puberty. Same goes for common people owning semi-automatic rifles. It's what opens the door to these tragedies.

Offline Saephon

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 06:30:07 PM »
The monsters that commit these crimes most likely would not seek mental health care, nor would a psychological screening or background check prevent them from getting a gun legally. I think people are going to have to accept that these people are most likely mentally sound and that, aside from a total prohibition on guns, making stricter gun laws won't do anything to curb these problems either.

You seem to be implying that this guy is not mentally unstable, but rather just "evil". I disagree. I am proposing that no individual who could commit this atrocity could possibly be considered in good mental health, or sane. And yes, people are trying to make sense of this, because this shit IS preventable. Can you honestly say we as a country are doing everything we can to prevent this shit, and oh well, this is the price we pay for the 2nd amendment and privatized healthcare? I say the cost is too high.

We've had psychologists tell us ways we could minimize this kind of thing since Columbine. Yet year after year we change nothing, and when this thing happens we all act surprised. "What could we possibly have done? How could this happen in our little, peaceful town?"  Bull fucking shit. Americans live in a delusional world where if it isn't happening right under your nose, it isn't happening and is somehow not your responsibility. I despise the 24 hour news cycle we've got going, but if used properly, one upside is that people are starting to notice just how fucked up our culture is. Everything in this country is "Man up; tough it out; the right to bear arms > everything. Don't show weakness." You see it in our schools, in our media, in the way parents raise their kids, and you see it in our foreign policy. We only ever admit mistakes after the fact; to show restraint preemptively is somehow anti-American. We're the goddamn Ender Wiggin of the world. Too bad our collective short-term memory is shit.



It's pretty baffling to me that you guys can't drink a beer until you're 21 but can learn to shoot a gun before you hit puberty.

It's a lot cheaper and easier to buy a firearm here than to get a prescription for anti-depressants.  :sad:

Saephon:  Being tired of your disingenuous assertions since 2183.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2012, 06:56:19 PM »
I am proposing that no individual who could commit this atrocity could possibly be considered in good mental health, or sane.

I think it's a blurry line most of the time. It's convenient to always blame mental illness, but when it comes to mass shootings I personally can't rule out the killer's responsability. Being depressed and/or socially awkward isn't a fucking excuse.

It's a lot cheaper and easier to buy a firearm here than to get a prescription for anti-depressants.  :sad:

You know, the sad part is I totally see the appeal of it. I like guns myself (and all kinds of weapons in general) and if it was easier to do in my country I'd probably own some. But what for? Shooting targets once in a while? Meanwhile, I'm thankful everyday as I commute that all those weirdos I come across don't have access to guns themselves.

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 07:05:07 PM »
You seem to be implying that this guy is not mentally unstable, but rather just "evil". I disagree. I am proposing that no individual who could commit this atrocity could possibly be considered in good mental health, or sane.

I suppose you got 'evil' from when I called these guys 'monsters'. What I'm implying is that these people are not all mentally ill, and may very well be normal people like the rest of us. I think that's something that bothers a lot of people, the idea that these people may very well not have signs until they erupt.

Quote
And yes, people are trying to make sense of this, because this shit IS preventable
I certainly hope you're right.

Quote
Can you honestly say we as a country are doing everything we can to prevent this shit, and oh well, this is the price we pay for the 2nd amendment and privatized healthcare? I say the cost is too high.
I'm totally with you when you say we are not doing enough with the mental health field, but you're wrong when you think someone that shoots up an elementary school / movie theater would seek help. Keep in mind the Aurora shooter mailed his threat / manifesto / whatever to his shrink right before the weekend. He was someone that was actively enrolled with a councilor and still chose to refuse help.  
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 10:12:34 PM by Vampire_Hunter_Bob »

Offline Walter

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2012, 01:25:17 AM »
My contribution to this thread: http://i.imgur.com/pjLeY.jpg
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline MrWeatherby

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2012, 02:30:52 AM »
Quote
An especially strict gun reform, or total prohibition, would lead to a second Civil War.

No it wouldn't, and throwing around the idea that [thing a lot of people wouldn't like] is going to cause a civil war is starting to reach "socialist" name calling levels of absurdity.

There's a lot of people in my town who shortly before this were arguing that open carry should totally be permissible across the board because it "saves lives." There's quite a few stupid gun owners out there, go figure.
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Offline Skullgrin140

Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2012, 10:27:40 AM »
News like this is horrible to read upon, the fact someone took the lives of 27 people & 18 children to top that off is disgusting. Why?

Offline Lithrael

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Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2012, 02:48:34 PM »
No it wouldn't, and throwing around the idea that [thing a lot of people wouldn't like] is going to cause a civil war is starting to reach "socialist" name calling levels of absurdity.

Agreed; in any case the idea that 'they're going to take your guns away' is paranoia as silly as the War On Christmas.  There is next to no political will for serious gun reform.  The only time you even get rumblings of gun reform is after a tragedy like this.  Now, there are some punitive looking fees on the books, but that's not government trying to take your guns, that's government trying to make a fast buck off you.  I would not be against reform that got rid of a lot of useless fees and instead started to treat guns more like vehicles.  Even that much would get many gun owners in a twist (some already hate things like Illinois' Firearm Owner's Identification card program.  OH MY GOD I HAVE TO GET AN ID CARD THAT HAS TO BE RENEWED EVERY 10 YEARS, NOW THE GOVERNMENT KNOWS I HAVE GUNS, OH NOOO).

Quote from: MrWeatherby
There's a lot of people in my town who shortly before this were arguing that open carry should totally be permissible across the board because it "saves lives." There's quite a few stupid gun owners out there, go figure.

Personally I'd prefer open carry to concealed.  Gives you the chance to see the weapon and get out of Dodge.

In any case personally I feel the way the media frenzies over these killings is a bigger problem than the gun nuttery, as far as the effect on chances of future mass killings.  The real problem of gun nuttery isn't mass murder, it's the appalling rate of gun negligence and accidental shootings.  Evaluating risk, it's a plane crash vs road accident situation.

Offline BerserkMJM

Re: School shooting in Connecticut
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2012, 05:08:27 PM »
Open carrying just lets would be killers know who to shoot at first. Or think twice, whatever.

Miserable news.