Author Topic: One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit  (Read 3138 times)

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Offline Arles

One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit
« on: January 19, 2013, 09:52:43 PM »
After looking at a friend's wallpaper, I got really curious and interested about this illustration:



Searching in the forums I found this post by Griffith, from 2003:
As for the image on the cover of the second DVD. Thatís just a poor manís rendition of this picture:

You can find it at the beginning of chapter 37, Skull Knightís introductory chapter and namesake. As you can obviously see, it represents him, but it's NOT him, and it could easily represent other characters as well. I think it represents at least Skull Knight and Guts' relationship, perhaps Griffith as well.

So, what meaning/s can we extract from this picture?
It really is polysemic, and many readings can be done respecting each of its components.

The Title: The text says Dokuro no Kishi, so this attaches the image to Skull Knight, whether we like or not. Taking into account the contents of that episode, this is no surprise.

Beherit: Which Beherit could it be? The Crimson one, or a regular yellow/green/blue Beherit from your everyday apostle? The eye is open and the mouth is in a weird gesture, so it's not a "sleeping" Beherit. On the other hand, it's not arranged in the "face form" they acquire when a summoning is happening.

Is this symbol referring to "the Demons" in general? We can't relate it directly to Griffith since we don't know its color. I think it might be directed to the "evil beings" in general.

The Skull: I think this is the most obvious reference to Skull Knight. But some things are amiss... Why is it broken? Only to show part of the Beherit within? Is this a reference to the fact that Skull Knight has, literally, Beherits inside him? Or is there a much more poetic reason, something like darkness resides within Skull Knight as well?

What about the expression? This skull seems to be having a devious smile in his "face". This can' be a coincidence either.

The missing right eye: This is a direct calling to Guts, I assume. But why? Is it like Griffith said, a nod to "Skull Knight and Guts' relationship"? Now that we know that they are following a similar path, does this image gain more meaning?

The eyeball: The left eye is intact. Which is odd, since this is a skull we are talking about. My question is... Whose eye is it? Guts'? Gaiseric's? Or maybe Griffith's?
Let's take a closer look:


That eye is no regular Human eye by Miura's standards. Whose eyes looks closer to that one?

Guts' Eye:


Griffith's Eye (early in the story):


Griffith's Eye (later in the story):


I think that by comparison, the eyes Griffith have after the Incarnation are more similar. Does this mean Griffith is included also in this composition?

The Rose and the Thorns: I think this is another reference to Skull Knight. Or rather his past, which we yet know very little about. The symbolism of a Rose and its thorns is very well documented, even more if, like in this case, is portrayed as a Crown of Thorns.

Does this speak about the martyrdom of Guts' life? If he some kind of "chosen one"? Or maybe this speaks about Skull Knight's life itself? Or Griffith's? I can say without shame that I don't know.


So, sorry for so many questions and so little answers. I have to say I love this picture exactly for that.

What do you think about the subject? Why did Miura introduce it at that stage of the story? What were his intentions? Did he want us to not understand it fully? Does it have even more secret meanings?

I hope you find the subject interesting as well and I can't wait to read your thoughts about it.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 10:47:36 PM by Arles »

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Offline Walter

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Re: One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2013, 09:56:18 PM »
Yeah, it's a compelling image. So compelling that I chose it for the SKnet landing page :void: . But I don't think it necessarily implies  anything about the relationships of the characters it's alluding to. I believe it's merely an amalgamation of several concepts and images integrated into one design. I guess you could say: "It's all connected!"

As for the eye you focus on, apostles/God Hand also have that vertical pupil. Check Locus' eye in vol 27, Zodd's in 22, etc. Even some quasi-apostles get it.
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Offline Arles

Re: One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2013, 10:01:19 PM »
s for the eye you focus on, apostles/God Hand also have that vertical pupil.

Then Irvine, Zodd, Rakshass and Locus would be exceptions, right?
I might be forgetting another examples, maybe?

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Offline Walter

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Re: One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2013, 10:04:47 PM »
Then Irvine, Zodd, Rakshass and Locus would be exceptions, right?
Well, there are some exceptions, but not for any of those four. For proof:

Zodd--Check vol 22, when Zodd intervenes to protect Griffith.
Locus--Check vol. 27, when Locus delivers his speech to Ganishka.
Irvine--Irvine's apostle eye can be seen on his bow, as recently as Ep 332.
Rakshas--Well, who knows. His eyes just glow:rakshas:

I'd say it's something Miura has been adopting over time. But yeah, it's enough to say that vertical pupil is associated with apostles and the God Hand. The INHUMANS.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Arles

Re: One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2013, 10:10:52 PM »
Zodd--Check vol 22, when Zodd intervenes to protect Griffith.
Locus--Check vol. 27, when Locus delivers his speech to Ganishka.
Irvine--Irvine's apostle eye can be seen on his bow, as recently as Ep 332.

Oh, I see now.
The images I searched for reference portraying them them didn't have that detail (Zodd and Locus mainly, and I didn't take the Bow's eye as the "Apostle Eye" for Irvine, my bad).

Ok then, I guess that eye in the illustration might have a meaning similar to The Beherit then: Evil, Darkness, Apostles, etc.

Thanks for pointing that out.

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2013, 10:36:21 PM »
So, what meaning/s can we extract from this picture?

That from his very introduction, Miura intended the Skull Knight to be connected to beherits (and possibly even to be absorbing them)?

It really is polysemic, and many readings can be done respecting each of its components.

The question you should be asking yourself though is whether said readings are pertinent. Interpretation for its own sake is of little value.

Which Beherit could it be? The Crimson one, or a regular yellow/green/blue Beherit from your everyday apostle?

It's always been officially pictured as being the crimson beherit.

We can't relate it directly to Griffith since we don't know its color.

Why would it be related to Griffith in particular anyway?

I think it might be directed to the "beasts of darkness" in general.

That doesn't make any sense. The Beast of Darkness is a specific construct of Guts' mind. It's a unique phenomenon, as far as we know, and it is wholly unrelated to this picture, to the Skull Knight, and only extremely tangentially related to beherits.

This skull seems to be having a devious smile in his "face". This can' be a coincidence either.

It's a skull though, can't avoid grinning.

The missing right eye: This is a direct calling to Guts, I assume. But why? Is it like Griffith said, a nod to "Skull Knight and Guts' relationship"? Now that we know that they are following a similar path, does this image gain more meaning?

There's also a visual harmony in the skull missing an eye and the beherit having one open.

The left eye is intact. Which is odd, since this is a skull we are talking about. My question is... Whose eye is it? Guts'? Gaiseric's? Or maybe Griffith's?

Maybe no one in particular?

I think that by comparison, the eyes Griffith have after the Incarnation are more similar. Does this mean Griffith is included also in this composition?

I doubt Griffith is meant to be related to this picture. Like Walter said, most supernatural beings have similar pupils.

The Rose and the Thorns: I think this is another reference to Skull Knight.

Obviously.

What do you think about the subject? Why did Miura introduce it at that stage of the story? What were his intentions? Did he want us to not understand it fully? Does it have even more secret meanings?

I think it's a very cool, ominous picture foreshadowing the Occultation ceremony and the role the Skull Knight would play in it (what the episode itself also does). It's an amalgamation of different elements and that makes it quite unique and interesting, but I don't think it carries any secret meanings.

Offline Arles

Re: One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2013, 10:46:47 PM »
The question you should be asking yourself though is whether said readings are pertinent. Interpretation for its own sake is of little value.
Agreed. But trying asking the questions and looking for an answer is also part of realizing if they are pertinent. I can see some of it might not be that relevant now.

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It's always been officially pictured as being the crimson beherit.
Is there an official colored version? Or are you talking about the DVD cover?

Quote
Why would it be related to Griffith in particular anyway?
Oh, I said this before realizing the vertical pupil was related to Apostles in general.

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That doesn't make any sense. The Beast of Darkness is a specific construct of Guts' mind. It's a unique phenomenon, as far as we know, and it is wholly unrelated to this picture, to the Skull Knight, and only extremely tangentially related to beherits.
Sorry, bad wording on my part. I didn't mean Guts Beast of Darknessģ, but evil beings in general. I'll edit my previous post to avoid misunderstandings.

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It's a skull though, can't avoid grinning.
True, but the brow's expressions and angle really caught my eye.

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Maybe no one in particular?
After what we talked about vertical pupils, that might be right.


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Offline Aazealh

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Re: One eyed Skull with Rose and Thorns + Beherit
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 10:57:39 PM »
Is there an official colored version? Or are you talking about the DVD cover?

It's appeared on a number of items, mostly merchandise (T-shirt, denim jacket, etc.).