Author Topic: Dragon Slayer breaking  (Read 3418 times)

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Offline jackson_hurley

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Dragon Slayer breaking
« on: April 02, 2013, 03:29:48 AM »
So, now that Rickert and Erica (with a c or k i can't remember) are in Falconia and that Guts is far away, do you guys think that the Dragon Slayer will break at some point until the end of the series and what will our little owner will do about it? Or might be it'll get it "refine" somehow in Elfhelm... Any thoughts on this?

Ps: I got bored while waiting for the new episode, gotta pass the time! soon! :)

Offline TheBranded1

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 07:36:17 AM »
I think the DS will remain as it is . Maybe a tune by a blacksmith , but I don't see it being replaced.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 02:35:31 PM »
I think the DS will remain as it is . Maybe a tune by a blacksmith , but I don't see it being replaced.

I don't see it replaced either but breaking in a major fight towards the end or cracking at some point... I'm scared about that since we see bigger enemies..

Offline Walter

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 02:54:27 PM »
I don't see it replaced either but breaking in a major fight towards the end or cracking at some point... I'm scared about that since we see bigger enemies..
I'm pretty sure we've answered such a question before. But in short, I think it'd be a pretty dark moment for the series, since the DS has become iconic, and somewhat symbolic of Guts' struggle against forces greater than humanity has any means to attack. For it to break or crack would signify an end to that. What would be the messaging there? Humanity really can't oppose these forces? Sounds antithetical to one of the series main tenets.

I only foresee something like that happening maybe in the final, climactic moments of the series, and even then, it would be pretty depressing. I've always seen the DS as something that would last even after the current conflicts are resolved. Hoisted high up in memory of all that Guts went through.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline IronBerserk

Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 09:53:27 PM »
In volume 26, Guts strikes down the Godhand Slan with his DS that the Skullknight says is, "take that sword tempered by the malice of hundreds...thousands of the dead." This is used I believe in a literal sense because even Schierke notices the massive amount of OD radiating from the sword. Guts' many encounters and killings of the beings within the astral world has made his sword stronger. He was able to strike down a Godhand (in a ethereal figure but still a worthy accomplishment none the less) and he still has many more enemies to vanquish. His sword only gets stronger so I doubt it will break anytime soon.

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 11:05:42 PM »
The DS breaking is like the death of Superman.

Offline Walter

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 03:42:18 AM »
Schierke notices the massive amount of OD radiating from the sword
That's not how the word od is used. It's not a word Miura invented, but comes from the phrase "odic force." It's really just a vague word to describe the nonphysical properties of an object or being. In Berserk it's often used to describe the essence of something. But it's not like midochlorians or anything. "His od level is over 9,000!"

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Guts' many encounters and killings of the beings within the astral world has made his sword stronger.
Not "stronger" in the sense that you're meaning it, though. The essence from all those Guts has slain with the DS has stained its existence to the point that it causes not just physical damage, but astral—thus it can affect ethereal bodies that normal weapons shouldn't be able to reach. We see an explicit example of this ability in Vol 32 when used against Ganishka.

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His sword only gets stronger so I doubt it will break anytime soon.
The Dragon Slayer's power has no relation to its vulnerability.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 12:30:02 PM »
Like Walter said I'm pretty sure we've already answered this question several times. Personally I just don't see the Dragon Slayer breaking, or maybe at the very end and in exceptional circumstances. It's as much a part of the series as Guts is. Being repaired though? Sure. Enhanced? Maybe, although it's already acquired supernatural properties, as noted by the Skull Knight in volume 26.

He was able to strike down a Godhand (in a ethereal figure but still a worthy accomplishment none the less) and he still has many more enemies to vanquish.

In addition to what Walter told you, I would object to saying that Guts "struck down" Slan. He managed to dispel her manifestation at that time, but by no means should we think of it as her having been defeated. She went away laughing and Guts would have died from the mere consequences of her forceful appearance and departure had the Skull Knight not been there to rescue him.

Offline IronBerserk

Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 06:53:23 PM »
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In addition to what Walter told you, I would object to saying that Guts "struck down" Slan. He managed to dispel her manifestation at that time, but by no means should we think of it as her having been defeated. She went away laughing and Guts would have died from the mere consequences of her forceful appearance and departure had the Skull Knight not been there to rescue him.
Your definitely right here. That's why I put in brackets that it was her ethereal figure. Didn't want to make it seem like he can kill her...well not anytime soon anyways :P

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That's not how the word od is used. It's not a word Miura invented, but comes from the phrase "odic force." It's really just a vague word to describe the nonphysical properties of an object or being. In Berserk it's often used to describe the essence of something. But it's not like midochlorians or anything. "His od level is over 9,000!"
Tempered by the malice of hundreds and thousands (Skull Knight)...it just seemed like the more time Guts used the sword in the astral world, the more "nonphysical"  malice (odic force like you mentioned) the sword gathered. So it did a bit feel like there was a bit of a number attached to it :P I also like thinking about the significance of this. Guts will use his Dragon Sword filled with the malice of every being he defeated throughout his journey, and strike down Griffith once and for all...something along those lines anyways.

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The Dragon Slayer's power has no relation to its vulnerability.
Yeah, your most likely right there. The physical and astral world are separate...actually wait...they aren't anymore. So is it possible that his sword is getting stronger? Probably not but still something to ponder about :P

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2013, 11:43:53 AM »
Your definitely right here. That's why I put in brackets that it was her ethereal figure.

But actually it wasn't. Slan, as a member of the God Hand, does not have a corporeal form. She only exists in the astral world. What happened in the Qliphoth is that she manifested herself physically by using troll corpses. When Guts stabbed her he dispelled that possession, nothing more.

Tempered by the malice of hundreds and thousands (Skull Knight)...it just seemed like the more time Guts used the sword in the astral world, the more "nonphysical"  malice (odic force like you mentioned) the sword gathered. So it did a bit feel like there was a bit of a number attached to it :P

It's more that because it's killed so many evil beings after some point it became imbued with some of their essence. That in turn gave it that specific Od. But the concept of Od in the series shouldn't just be equated with evil power.

Offline IronBerserk

Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2013, 09:09:40 PM »
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But actually it wasn't. Slan, as a member of the God Hand, does not have a corporeal form. She only exists in the astral world. What happened in the Qliphoth is that she manifested herself physically by using troll corpses. When Guts stabbed her he dispelled that possession, nothing more.
You sure, because I'm holding the Dark Horse translated volume 26 right now and Slan specifically says, "The first form I've taken in some time. Alas, troll entrails make for a revolting ethereal figure." Maybe that's why we are always arguing. I'm using English translation while you are probably able to read the original Japanese version.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 05:03:30 PM »
You sure, because I'm holding the Dark Horse translated volume 26 right now and Slan specifically says, "The first form I've taken in some time. Alas, troll entrails make for a revolting ethereal figure." Maybe that's why we are always arguing. I'm using English translation while you are probably able to read the original Japanese version.

Yeah, I'm sure. Dark Horse made a mistake on that one. It's unfortunately not uncommon. We have translations on the forum that are very good, if needed you should refer yourself to them.

Offline IronBerserk

Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 05:07:34 PM »
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Yeah, I'm sure. Dark Horse made a mistake on that one. It's unfortunately not uncommon. We have translations on the forum that are very good, if needed you should refer yourself to them.
Will do, also any excuse to read Berserk again is fine with me :P lol

Offline dasfdeas

Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 07:52:50 PM »
Call me crazy, but I've been of the opposite opinion for some time.  What's to say that the DS won't live on long after Guts?  Suppose Guts somehow destroys Femto/Griffith, but not the entire God Hand and the DS is still out there cutting down apostles long after the current characters are gone?  Hey, maybe Isidro will eventually be able to use it.   :ganishka:

Offline Arvin

Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 02:57:11 AM »
I agree, I don't see the DS breaking anytime soon. But ever since it being last reforged by Godo, the DS has taken quite a lot of punishment, the fight with Grunbeld comes to mind. The DS took several direct hits from Grunbeld's war hammer, and since that fight Guts has put the Berserker armor, which would make him exert much more power and stress on the blade.

I think when they get to Elfhelm, it would be quite a good time for the DS to be repaired or reforged again by the skilled hands of someone or something. Perhaps Dwarves, the makers of the Berserker armor, if some of them inhabit Elfhelm.

Offline Walter

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2013, 04:01:22 AM »
I agree, I don't see the DS breaking anytime soon. But ever since it being last reforged by Godo, the DS has taken quite a lot of punishment, the fight with Grunbeld comes to mind. The DS took several direct hits from Grunbeld's war hammer, and since that fight Guts has put the Berserker armor, which would make him exert much more power and stress on the blade.

I think when they get to Elfhelm, it would be quite a good time for the DS to be repaired or reforged again by the skilled hands of someone or something. Perhaps Dwarves, the makers of the Berserker armor, if some of them inhabit Elfhelm.
When Godot repaired the Dragon Slayer, it was done during a time in which Guts was redirecting his life, dedicating his journey for Casca's protection. I think it would make sense thematically if such a thing were to happen again in Elfhelm, given what's ahead. But without Godot... it's not going to feel right, is it?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2013, 08:44:39 AM »
I always expected the DS to be refurbished in Elfhelm. Now of course I agree with what Walter said: that without Godot it wouldn't be the same. But that's also a point in favor of it happening in Elfhelm. No man could ever be depicted as a better blacksmith than Godot, not even Rickert, his spiritual successor. But it doesn't have to be a man. If some beings on the level of those who crafted the Berserk's armor or even the Skull Knight's armor were to take care of it, how could we feel bad? Especially if they comment on its quality. And it doesn't even have to be dwarves; imagine a giant, handling it as if it were a dagger. As usual, so many possibilities!

I'm actually excited to see it happen! :guts:

Offline Tama

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Re: Dragon Slayer breaking
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 11:05:12 PM »
I was actually going to make a topic about this but it seems people are already discussing it (not it breaking, but when it will be repaired again). I know the last time Guts goes back to Godot's place is in volume 22, but is Rickert capable of maintaining the DS at this point? If not maybe it's been even longer since it's been checked. I do wonder if that will occur on Elfhelm.