Author Topic: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34  (Read 7936 times)

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Offline Walter

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Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« on: May 04, 2013, 06:57:14 PM »

Episode 34 (05/04/2013): The Underlying Vein

The admins talk about one of the lesser known themes of the series: water in the astral world. The discussion is a longer talk on a thread made back in 2006. Walter also talks about his depressing yard sale, and the guys list their top 5 Zelda games at the end of the show.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2013, 08:16:33 PM »
Wow, fast turnaround! To follow up on the Zelda chat, Wally pointed out how the series sort of lost any sort of scary atmosphere later on, and thinking about it I believe the last games to really touch on that were OoT and Majora's Mask. Since then, even "grown up" interpretations like Twilight Princess have been pretty light on the horror aspect of dungeon crawling. Once again, Ocarina did it right though. =) Speaking of TP, it wasn't just the Wii install base that accounts for it's second only to Ocarina numbers, check it out compared to Skyward Sword:

TP: 6.77m
SS: 3.65m

Those are Wii only numbers, counting Gamecube the TP total balloons to 8.36 million! For more context here are the all-time totals for each game across all systems:

OoT: 10.65
TP: 8.36
ALttP: 7.31
LoZ: 6.51
LA: 6.05
AoL: 5.08
PH: 4.96
WW: 4.60
SS: 3.65
MM: 3.36
ST: 3.18

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/

The two most recent Zelda titles present an unappealing trend for the series, then again they are the second Zelda title on each system. Still, no reason other than lack of interest in the content of the game itself that Skyward Sword shouldn't have sold better to Wii owners. So, whatever you think of Twilight Princess, and I've chronicled my own issues with it, Nintendo would be wise to make it's style the basis of Zelda brand going forward. Of course, that's why they won't, but I don't mind because they're making the future of Zelda A Link to the Past. =)

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2013, 12:37:00 PM »
I do think TP being on the Wii did boost its sales though. It was a launch title, and it rode for the entire length of the Wii's careerócompared to Skyward Sword which came out at the ass end of the Wii being a viable console.

I am really surprised to see OoT being such a big seller though. I wouldn't have thought the market was that big back in 1998. It's not combining 64/3DS sales, is it..?
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2013, 07:03:42 PM »
It's the conbined sales, OoT "only" sold 7.6 million units on N64. :griffnotevil: Also, I'm sure being on Wii early did boost TP sales, it just wasn't the only reason it sold almost twice as much as WW, SS, or any other Zelda since OoT. Speaking of which, since TP is "in the style of" OoT and those games have moved over 20 million units... Nintendo clearly needs to make more four swords games! Just kidding, I mean they might want to stick with that TP style as the face of Zelda and go from there. While they're at it, per your observation they could also try following the mold of releasing Zelda games at the start of system cycles instead of the end (even TP was more an accident than anything in this regard, so late to GC it was early for Wii), which they could have if they'd held off on Wii U. Imagine if Nintendo were bringing out the Super Nintendo Wii II, on the same hardware level as PS4 and the new X-Box and with a super Zelda as its flagship launch title. Oh well. What blows me away is there are 100 million Wiis out there and only 4 million of those owners bought SS. Those might have been the only people left that even turned the system on anymore. =)

Offline Johnny Apples

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2013, 09:13:46 PM »
I am really surprised to see OoT being such a big seller though. I wouldn't have thought the market was that big back in 1998. It's not combining 64/3DS sales, is it..?

No, I just don't think video game market was as much cutthroat competitive like it is now. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but back in the 1990s, the Nintendo's primary target demographic - the youth, had far more disposable income than their teen and tween counterparts do these days. So yeah, for a big corporation like Nintendo with a hot video game like Zelda on their hands, scoring a huge bestseller was like shooting fish in a barrel. 

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2013, 10:21:22 PM »
Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but back in the 1990s, the Nintendo's primary target demographic - the youth, had far more disposable income than their teen and tween counterparts do these days.

The "youth" as you say weren't necessarily Nintendo's main demographic at the time. Nor am I sure it really is now, but in any case that perception wasn't as installed back then as it is today, and so people who were looking for a cool action/adventure game could have hardly found something better than Zelda 64.

Offline Grail

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2013, 01:41:14 AM »
I love Walter's "crazy" theories and not-so-crazy theories. Great Berserk lesson as always.

Every damn time I listen to you guys talk about Zelda it makes me want to play all the ones I've played over again. Especially Ocarina.

I've never played Link to the Past and everyone gives me shit about that. Maybe I should give it a go, finally.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2013, 01:56:20 AM »
I've never played Link to the Past and everyone gives me shit about that. Maybe I should give it a go, finally.

I was in the same boat as you, but I eventually played it earlier this year. I wasn't too thrilled with it, but I think it's because I've been desensitized to Zelda games in general.

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2013, 02:00:53 AM »
I love Walter's "crazy" theories and not-so-crazy theories. Great Berserk lesson as always.

Every damn time I listen to you guys talk about Zelda it makes me want to play all the ones I've played over again. Especially Ocarina.

I've never played Link to the Past and everyone gives me shit about that. Maybe I should give it a go, finally.
Fuck. This post was me. Sorry Grail, I forgot you logged in on my computer.  :farnese:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2013, 02:20:40 AM »
The "youth" as you say weren't necessarily Nintendo's main demographic at the time. Nor am I sure it really is now, but in any case that perception wasn't as installed back then as it is today, and so people who were looking for a cool action/adventure game could have hardly found something better than Zelda 64.

No, it was definitely kids with large disposable incomes driving their Power Wheels Ferraris to Toys R Us so they could drop a paycheck on N64 games. Meanwhile, all the adults were saving their allowance to play Sega, smoke camel cigarettes, and go to R-rated movies before they discovered Playstation. :badbone:

I was in the same boat as you, but I eventually played it earlier this year. I wasn't too thrilled with it, but I think it's because I've been desensitized to Zelda games in general.

Yeah, I've had just about enough of your Zelda bashing, mister. :azan:  This latest is blasphemy! :mozgus:

Fuck. This post was me. Sorry Grail, I forgot you logged in on my computer.  :farnese:

I thought Grail was a little too cool not to have played Zelda III. :iva:

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 03:20:20 AM »
I thought Grail was a little too cool not to have played Zelda III. :iva:
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Offline Truder

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 09:55:32 PM »
I loved the podcasts guys.

one thing though. you guys seem to have missed the messege that majoras mask has. griffith says its the emo zelda where everything is dark and grim.. but thats just the exterior of the game. the game is a lot about hope, love, and the people you hold dear. in recent years majoras mask has become a very popular zelda. i do admit that some people like it for the wrong reasons but it really does have one the most interesting zelda worlds.

Walter if you went back to finish OoT, you really owe Majoras Mask that same service. the fourth area of MM has some interesting hidden lore in it on the same level as Dark Souls.:carcus: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-message-of-majoras-mask/

also the hyrule field theme isnt in majoras mask. i guess it sounds similar to the termina field music though.

(also sorry for the lack of caps) :/

« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 10:15:40 PM by Truder »

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2013, 01:14:37 AM »
one thing though. you guys seem to have missed the messege that majoras mask has. griffith says its the emo zelda where everything is dark and grim.. but thats just the exterior of the game.
I don't think it was an unfair statement, even if it was an intentional generalism.

Quote
in recent years majoras mask has become a very popular zelda.
We're welllll aware of this.  :casca:

Quote
Walter if you went back to finish OoT, you really owe Majoras Mask that same service.
I will definitely play it again if Nintendo re-releases it for 3DS as they did for OoT.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Lenlo

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2013, 03:43:50 AM »
Loved the cast, as always. I never really thought about how much water is used/referenced before this now. Something to think about in my next reread.

OoT and Majora's Mask are my two favorite Zelda games. I haven't played any after Twilight Princess though so maybe the new ones are really really good.

Also hello!
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Is but a dream within a dream. - Poe

Offline Sammoniac

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2013, 03:50:26 AM »
Well, that's another interesting podcast that you guys did there. I love the more cryptic stuff working behind the scenes in Berserk. You guys made a good point by saying that a lot of details are being lost in translation, and I think it would be a very interesting subject to expand upon (maybe a dedicated podcast someday?). Also, it'd be great to eventually have a smart English speaking Japanese fan with you guys. I'm sure we could have interesting insights from such a person.

I'm glad that the podcasts keep coming even with the lack of episodes. I keep referring people I know to them. Keep up the good work!  :guts:

PS : Regarding Zelda, last year I managed to finish the first and second games on the NES (without any guides or cheats!). Zelda 2 was hard! I also managed to finish A Link To The Past without even dying once (I played that game so much when I was a kid)...  :ganishka:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2013, 07:58:54 AM »
Walter if you went back to finish OoT, you really owe Majoras Mask that same service. the fourth area of MM has some interesting hidden lore in it on the same level as Dark Souls.:carcus: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/the-message-of-majoras-mask/

I'll be honest man: that guy's theory is very long and I just don't feel like reading it. Is it really based on actual stuff or just wishful thinking though?

Also hello!

Hey there! Welcome to the forum!

Also, it'd be great to eventually have a smart English speaking Japanese fan with you guys. I'm sure we could have interesting insights from such a person.

Puella could but she doesn't really want to be on the show, so you'll have to settle for me repeating what she has to say!

Offline Truder

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2013, 11:23:39 AM »
I'll be honest man: that guy's theory is very long and I just don't feel like reading it. Is it really based on actual stuff or just wishful thinking though?
A lot of it is just a theory, but he backs up his theory with in game dialogue and structures. his whole theory is about the people of termina who worship the 4 giants over the goddesses. the goddesses find it blasphemous so they curse the land of termina and its all rather interesting. although all of his theory seems to be a hidden messege that nintendo never acknowledges themselves so take it as you will. a lot of his theory makes sense but some of it is a stretch. maybe you could read it when majoras mask 3ds comes out or something.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2013, 11:30:31 AM »
maybe you could read it when majoras mask 3ds comes out or something.

Hahaha, yeah I guess I just might. :slan:

Thanks for the summary anyway, I appreciate it.

Offline Tama

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2013, 03:57:54 AM »
I think I'm in the minority when I say I actually didn't care for Majora's Mask. I did like collecting the masks themselves, but everything just felt copy and pasted and I personally hated the time limit. Also while I did like Wind Waker's graphics and some of the dungeons, Sailing got really boring for me pretty quick. My top three:

1. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. Legend of Zelda: LTTP
3. Legend of Zelda: Links' Awakening

Griff do you want someone else to play Mario Kart 3DS with? I will post my tag if so; I don't know many who play it so it would be nice to have some competition.

Also I am glad you guys brought up the subject of how the majority of recent video games hold your hand through-out the journey. This is one reason why I don't really care for a lot of titles, and feel like we have lost something from the past. Everyone seems to want everything easy and have arrows point them in the right direction so they don't have to think. :(

Offline Truder

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2013, 01:12:15 PM »
I think I'm in the minority when I say I actually didn't care for Majora's Mask. I did like collecting the masks themselves, but everything just felt copy and pasted and I personally hated the time limit.
The only things that were copy and pasted were some character models due to some ridiculous time constraints and thats honestly just about it. You could argue that all Zeldas are merely "copy and pasted". All their story lines are 90% similar to each other where you start off without a sword and shield, get summoned by someone to tell you to save Hyrule, and then ultimately beat some form of Ganon. None of that happens in Majora's mask. If anything it is the least "copy and pasted". So i dont understand your reason to dislike it there.
Also while I did like Wind Waker's graphics and some of the dungeons, Sailing got really boring for me pretty quick.
I never did mind the sailing. it always felt adventurous to me  :serpico: but I was pretty young when i played WW so maybe that is why.

as far my personal top 5 Zelda games:

5. TP
4. LTTP
3. MM
2. WW
1. OoT

If I could put them all on number 1 I would :ubik:. I will say that WW has my favorite Zelda Music. The art style and music blend so masterfully!

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2013, 02:09:35 PM »
Thanks for all the comments guys. Maybe I should have named this one the Zelda podcast  :ganishka: Had I known it would be such a long topic, I would have structured things better. But I think across all the times we've touched on the series on the podcast, we've covered our bases pretty well.

That being said, I'd love to do a Dark Souls one once Griff finishes it. Talking about all the comparisons to Berserk :daiba:
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Offline Bender

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2013, 02:19:54 AM »
Great podcast guys, lots of good information.

Aazealh, listening to you talk about playing Castlevania 2 as a little kid who didn't speak english had me cracking up. :ganishka:
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 12:21:07 PM by Bender »

Offline randomzero

Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2013, 03:19:52 AM »
Can't wait to listen to this one. I went ahead and found the Zelda thread to post my thoughts in rather than putting them here.

Anyway, while I haven't posted much(or at all for quite a while), I've kept up with the podcasts. Every couple of weeks, I get to listen to them while I milk cows. So, thanks for making it less tedious. lol.

Offline TheBranded1

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2013, 07:12:11 PM »
Do you guys think Miura also got inspiration for his water motifs from Japanese folktales? I know it's a stretch , but also being born in Chiba , close to the sea he was used to the water and he wanted to have it in berserk.

Offline Walter

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Re: Skullknight.NET Podcast: Episode 34
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2013, 08:06:17 PM »
Do you guys think Miura also got inspiration for his water motifs from Japanese folktales? I know it's a stretch , but also being born in Chiba , close to the sea he was used to the water and he wanted to have it in berserk.
It's a cool thought. Maybe? That being said, I think the theme itself likely permeates eastern culture in general, and it wouldn't be a requirement to live by the sea to be influenced by it.
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