Author Topic: Griffith and the God Hand  (Read 2250 times)

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Offline Apostle Judeau

Griffith and the God Hand
« on: May 13, 2013, 03:38:57 PM »
Having read through quite a lot of the forum threads already I gather some people here don't empathise with or condone Griffith's actions so I won't even go there. However lets dial it back a second (i'll be using the DH translations here so if inaccurate, apologies) What is Griffith actually getting out of this deal with the God Hand?  Paraphasing: "A kindgom in return for his flesh and blood", surely it can't be that simple? The Count was eventually asked to surrender his own daughter's Soul merely to renew his body, yet Griffith gets a whole kingdom for his human body? I can't help but wonder if more is going on with that thread and if Griffith hasn't actually been used for a greater payment to be claimed from him later?

Offline Walter

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Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 04:18:58 PM »
I'll get into specifics, but on the whole you're thinking of sacrifices and such in terms of a transaction, or a business proposal, when really it's more like a path taken to become more evil, in the trappings of a contract. Read the details of the Count's sacrifice scene, and what the God Hand members say about the importance of the sacrifice. The significance of it isn't another dead human/s. It tears at a person's soul, letting evil in.

Having read through quite a lot of the forum threads already I gather some people here don't empathise with or condone Griffith's actions so I won't even go there.
It's tough to empathize with a guy who had his friends slaughtered to inherit evil power and manipulate the world, raped his friend and comrade, "feels nothing" upon meeting them again, etc., etc. However, it's not like we hate the guy or anything. I've never quite understood that feeling either.

If you're interested in the subject, you should really listen to our three-part podcast on Griffith where we go into great detail about his character and motivations. http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=13617.0

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What is Griffith actually getting out of this deal with the God Hand?  Paraphasing: "A kindgom in return for his flesh and blood", surely it can't be that simple?
It's not simple. He became a demigod with dominion over all evil in the world, he also inherited an army of apostles, had the continent bow before him, and literally had the world reshaped in his image. But to get there, he had to give up everything that was dear to him, shed his final tear, become inhuman.

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The Count was eventually asked to surrender his own daughter's Soul merely to renew his body, yet Griffith gets a whole kingdom for his human body?
Apostles aren't members of the God Hand.

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I can't help but wonder if more is going on with that thread and if Griffith hasn't actually been used for a greater payment to be claimed from him later?
Not sure what you're implying. Could you maybe say a little more about what you mean?

:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Apostle Judeau

Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 06:49:20 PM »
Ohh a podcast, i'll be sure to give that a listen. As for The Count I know he was just an Apostle as opposed to Griffith, I was thinking of it in terms of what the use of a Beherit costs the user and Griffith seemed to come off a lot lighter than most.
Quote from: Walter
Not sure what you're implying. Could you maybe say a little more about what you mean?
Well as I understand it Griffith now has what he wanted/asked for: his Kingdom. But aside from corrupting an already corrupt human what did the God Hand get out of it? Was there some other motive for them granting Griffith's ascension?

While I didn't entirely like the Femto look, Griffith is still one of my favourite characters within the series. I have a soft spot for villains and Berserk caters to that very well.

Offline Walter

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Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 07:17:34 PM »
I was thinking of it in terms of what the use of a Beherit costs the user and Griffith seemed to come off a lot lighter than most.
I wouldn't say that, considering other apostles we knew well, the Count and Rochine, retained a bit of their humanity as apostles, as evident mostly in their dying moments (God Hand actually comment that the count needed to repeat the ceremony to rid himself of it completely). Whereas Griffith now resembles a husk of what he once was. Griffith died and Femto was born.

But what did the God Hand get out of it? Was there some other motive for them granting Griffith's ascension?
His plan aligned with theirs and ultimately brought them into this world.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Apostle Judeau

Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2013, 01:13:28 PM »
strange that only really Slan has appeared since that time. Not that Griffith was a stand up guy to begin with but if he hadn't had been tortured to the point of insanity would he still have agreed to sacrifice the Hawks, especially Guts, in that way to achieve his dream?

Offline Walter

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Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2013, 01:54:46 PM »
strange that only really Slan has appeared since that time.
You must not be caught up on current events. If that's the case, I don't want to spoil you.

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Not that Griffith was a stand up guy to begin with but if he hadn't had been tortured to the point of insanity would he still have agreed to sacrifice the Hawks, especially Guts, in that way to achieve his dream?
Probably not.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 10:28:02 PM »
What should be kept it mind here is that there is a greater influence behind the God Hand as a whole: the Idea of Evil. Each member of the God Hand has their own goal, but they all converge towards the same result. That's because they've each been brought about by the schemes of that superior entity.

Offline Apostle Judeau

Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 03:47:28 PM »
Quote from: Walter
You must not be caught up on current events. If that's the case, I don't want to spoil you.

Thanks, yes I'm only as far as the released Volumes. So I'm only upto Volume 36 in terms of storyline.

What should be kept it mind here is that there is a greater influence behind the God Hand as a whole: the Idea of Evil. Each member of the God Hand has their own goal, but they all converge towards the same result. That's because they've each been brought about by the schemes of that superior entity.
Now I've heard bits and pieces on the Idea of Evil, is this an active presence in post v.36 content? As I understand it the original tale regarding the IoE wasn't collected in the Volume format?


Offline Walter

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Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2013, 03:56:34 PM »
Thanks, yes I'm only as far as the released Volumes. So I'm only upto Volume 36 in terms of storyline.
Then I guess you missed their appearance in volume 34, as they came into this world.

Now I've heard bits and pieces on the Idea of Evil, is this an active presence in post v.36 content? As I understand it the original tale regarding the IoE wasn't collected in the Volume format?
Appeared in episode 82 (vol 13); had a conversation with Griffith in episode 83 (which wasn't included in vol 13); mentioned by name in the title of episodes 163-165; existence implied by Flora in vol 24.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Apostle Judeau

Re: Griffith and the God Hand
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 01:05:28 PM »
I'm currently in the process of moving so my collection is in a box somewhere. Going to dig out those volumes now though thanks.