Poll

How would you rate this movie?

*****
19 (13.6%)
****
30 (21.4%)
***
28 (20%)
**
32 (22.9%)
*
31 (22.1%)

Total Members Voted: 138

Author Topic: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]  (Read 99922 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lithrael

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 874
  • Karma: 91
  • Gender: Female
  • Remember, always hold your apple tight
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #200 on: September 11, 2013, 12:17:53 AM »
Finally saw it.  They left out so much... 

It was frustrating to watch some of these long drawn out scenes with no dialog when there was so much important dialog in the book.  Agree that adding things like any of the cut parts of Guts & Casca's scene would be shutting the barn door after the horses ran away during the first two movies...  Nevertheless I would have been so much happier with it if they'd tried.

The movie looked much better than the last one, but kept breaking its promise by putting more awful CG on the screen every time you start to really feel immersed.  When we see the actual drawn version of Carcus during the eclipse, I don't know how anyone unfamiliar with the story would even know it was him; up til then, 90% of the time he was an awful CG puppet.

Removing so much dialog and plot also made things a lot slashier than the source material.  Casca never brings up Charlotte as the reason there was no room for her as Griffith's woman, for example.  It ends up sounding like the reason she couldn't connect with Griff, was Guts and only Guts.

Though I knew we would never see it in this stripped adaptation, I still missed Charlotte's scene during the rescue, when she steps up to mislead the guards.  I'd held out a little hope, since she seemed to be one of the characters that was still getting to be in the story a little.

So many scenes I missed.  I know there wouldn't have been time for all of them but we coulda included one or two and cut Griffith's trippin' scene.

Lots of scenes I preferred the anime version of.  The biggest one that sticks out is that I liked the anime's version of Griffith's vision of the creatures coming out of the wall.  The manga gives me the impression of stillness and quiet, and the anime stuck with that; in the movie he's shivering like crazy, and it just didn't feel right to me.

There were a few scenes I liked as well.  Pretty much, the ones that were most like the manga and had the least CGI in them, and also the least unfortunate music choices.

I'll have to check out the dub at some point and see if I like it any better, too, because there was a LOT of voice work I did not like at all in this movie.  Way too many stereotypical shonen anime voice trope type choices.  Especially the gathering apostles all having the 'bad guy comedy flunky' voice at the beginning of the ceremony.  Like for REAL?  THIS is how you build atmosphere?  And Zodd is just a guy just going 'groar!' ?

All the colors and backgrounds were great, up til the Eclipse at least. 

I found it completely bizzarre that they ended the thing by ripping off the anime's ending.  I mean that..  that isn't in the books at all; like at ALL. 

To clarify; the manga also ends with Guts walking away but the tone and lead-up are completely different.  The anime and movie both end with a shot of Godo's furnace and Guts taking the DS and leaving without a word.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 01:01:48 AM by Lithrael »

Offline Doc

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #201 on: September 13, 2013, 11:48:03 AM »
Good summary, Lithrael. The usage of CGI, while not as obtrusive as the previous two movies, is still as visually jarring as before. In the rare event the movie did establish a scene, it would usually be ruined by another awkward segue to a cel-shaded puppet, and back again. I really wish they had just chosen one animation style or the other. All I'm asking for is a little consistency here, people. Maybe it would've worked for another anime, but this style doesn't suit Berserk at all.

Also, interesting that you've mentioned the voice-acting. I haven't heard a lot of opinions regarding the new seiyuu cast, aside from the odd mention here and there. Now I'm not well-versed in Japanese, so I can't give an informed opinion, but I would say that when compared to the original anime cast, there's a distinct lack of 'character' to these new voices.  Guts, Griffith, Casca, Zodd, Corkus, Void, etc. all had really recognizable voices that you could immediately identify with the characters. Overall, the movie cast falls somewhat flat by comparison. However, I didn't miss Nobutoshi Canna as Guts too much. When I first heard his voice in the anime it was unfamiliar, and while it has grown on me over time, he never really matched the Guts in my head. That's just like, my opinion, man (before you grab the pitchforks).  The new guy, on the other hand, had the right tone, and captured all the gnarly aggression quite well.  Although we haven't heard him as the Black Swordsman yet, so there's still another dimension of his acting we need to see before we can make a complete judgement. If we ever do, that is.  And I'm glad they recast Casca, because Yuko Miyamura was far too shrill for my liking. She hurt my frickin' ears on more than one occasion during the TV show.

Akio Ohtsuka as Skull Knight? Yeaaaah, that was cool, I guess. Akio Ohtsuka is always boss in whatever role, although I think I might have preferred a more obscure casting choice, and I'm aware that kind of contradicts my original point above. It's just that I've heard Akio Ohtsuka in so much that I've come to associate his voice with a bazillion other roles before Skully. Recasting Griffith from Toshiyuki Morikawa to Takahiro Sakurai was an odd  choice. I know both of them are typecast for voicing shifty bishounen, and Sakurai is a solid performer, but Morikawa has a richness and depth to his voice that made him perfect for the role. There's a reason why Morikawa voices Sephiroth and Sakurai has Cloud, y'know

Oddly enough, I think the one voice I missed the most was Corkus'. Tomohiro Nishimura is one of my favourite "B-list" seiyuu and his level of pitch, along that heavy Kansai dialect, had all the right elements for Corkus' overblown cynicism and comic relief.  The new voice doesn't come close to hitting the same notes and is completely forgettable.
 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 12:03:23 PM by Doc »

Offline Lithrael

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 874
  • Karma: 91
  • Gender: Female
  • Remember, always hold your apple tight
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #202 on: September 16, 2013, 05:03:31 PM »
Agreed 100% about Carcus.  Especially if you're going to cut him down so much, you really need the voice acting to pop or it'll be like he's not even there.   :judo:

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18736
  • Karma: 702
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #203 on: September 16, 2013, 05:16:42 PM »
Agreed 100% about Carcus.  Especially if you're going to cut him down so much, you really need the voice acting to pop or it'll be like he's not even there.   :judo:

Then again, were any of the Falcon's lieutenants really there outside of Guts and Casca? They're barely a step above "nameless_sergeant_07".

Offline Lithrael

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 874
  • Karma: 91
  • Gender: Female
  • Remember, always hold your apple tight
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #204 on: September 16, 2013, 07:01:45 PM »
Then again, were any of the Falcon's lieutenants really there outside of Guts and Casca? They're barely a step above "nameless_sergeant_07".

Yeah.  Even so, leaving out that moment with Gaston during the eclipse felt like a punch to the gut, worse than anything else the movies did wrong.  Of course they've been ignoring characters left, right and center the whole time, but in that moment, it was like the movie was actually yelling at me that it didn't care about any of these guys.  The other mistakes left me going 'ugh, geez' or 'wtf' or 'why did they ruin that' but when Guts finds Gaston already dead I was..  I dunno, personally offended.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18736
  • Karma: 702
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #205 on: September 16, 2013, 07:27:39 PM »
The other mistakes left me going 'ugh, geez' or 'wtf' or 'why did they ruin that' but when Guts finds Gaston already dead I was..  I dunno, personally offended.

Heh, actually to me if anything it's funny that you only were when it came to that. I was offended so long ago I can't remember when it started.

Offline RyoGTO

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #206 on: November 22, 2013, 11:12:08 AM »
I practice non-violence; however, at times, while watching I felt an overwhelming urge to punch or strangle the creators of this movie travesty.

Heh, actually to me if anything it's funny that you only were when it came to that. I was offended so long ago I can't remember when it started.
^this

I wanted so bad to like it. Really. At times, when a really treasured scene was coming up, I'd be thinking, "YES, YEESS" but, when it came on (or was omitted!) I would be thinking, "NO!... NO, WTF! YOU IDIOTS!"

Bottom line, I wish I never saw it.

Offline Doc

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #207 on: March 25, 2014, 07:52:38 PM »
Best excuse I've heard for Guts almost overpowering Femto is that "Femto had just been born and was new to his powers."  :schierke:

Offline Gummyskull

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #208 on: March 31, 2014, 08:08:58 AM »
1/10

It's been several months since I first watched and I'm still personally offended by the thought of it. :magni: I don't really know what I expected after the first two, but wow, even my lowest expectations were not met. It's already been ripped apart and scrutinized by pretty much everybody, but I'll add 3 of the biggest offenses:

1) Guts and Casca's Love scene. Completely lacked the emotional intimacy and character development of it's manga counterpart, and within the context of the move it seemed very sudden to me. Speaking of sudden I'm glad the movie let us know that Guts is a minute man.

2) The Eclipse. Where do I start? Guts just standing there like an idiot as Casca is being molested? Guts nearly striking Femto? Casca reciprocating Femto's kiss and not sounding at all like she is in agony? Actually that is more upsetting than anything because I really don't want to see more garbage about how she actually liked it.  Also, the music that played as Casca was being lowered made me laugh. Great job guys. :troll:

3) I had something else in mind but at this point I can't remember what it was, so screw it, the whole rest of the movie was bad. Just bad.

Offline Heavenly Maiden

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #209 on: March 31, 2014, 03:10:11 PM »
I was really holding out hope that the events of the eclipse would at least be great and maybe salvage my respect for this project since it is such a big thing in the berserk story but nope I was completely let down.

I am getting annoyed with this projects tendency to change things it seems just for the sake of changing something. They are not even good changes. Why actually show Corkus getting his head bitten off? What was so "holy shit" about Corkus's death is that it is implied, when the POV switches from his perception of a sexy naked woman to the audience of what he is really burying his face in. Casca does not go down fighting? Really? She gets put in a catatonic state for the rest of the series and they do not even give her, her last moments of  lucidity and capability before she loses it all? What was the point of that?
 
The eclipse started out slightly good I was hopeful because of how the eclipse looked, unlike some I liked how it started off blue and then went red. But as soon as it all got rolling it was one major disappointment after another. The CGI apostles didn't look as good as I thought it would and the God Hand looked weird. Were they hand drawn or CGI?

And what is it with this films preoccupation with showing every female's bush? Casca, Slan, even that  female apostle that killed Corkus...The film even had a "yeah we are rated R" shot of Slan playing with her boobs.  :magni:

And then the scene where Guts does not get pinned down before Griffith molests Casca. OMG...of all the times the film made Guts look like a dimwitted asshole...this took the cake! He fucking stands there longer then it would take an idiot to figure out what Griffith is doing, and Griffith even has time to switch from fondling her breast to fingering her before Guts actually realizes what's going on. And when he does it comes off more like:  "h-hey! You-you're touching her! YOU'RE TOUCHING HER! STOP IT GRIFFITH!" His reaction was completely cheap and almost comical. It took everything away from that scene.

And Casca...I was always  in the group of people who thought she enjoyed it, but the manga and old anime series at least was depicted to have reasonable doubt. Here it was completely erotic and it is obvious she is getting off.




Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18736
  • Karma: 702
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #210 on: March 31, 2014, 05:27:07 PM »
the God Hand looked weird. Were they hand drawn or CGI?

Depends on the shot. There's definitely a lot of 3D though.

And what is it with this films preoccupation with showing every female's bush? Casca, Slan, even that  female apostle that killed Corkus...The film even had a "yeah we are rated R" shot of Slan playing with her boobs.  :magni:

It comes with their bombastic approach to everything: they could do it, so why not? "So intense! So cool!" Only not really.

And Casca...I was always  in the group of people who thought she enjoyed it

Blood and tears, the tell-tale signs of enjoyment.

Offline Heavenly Maiden

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #211 on: April 02, 2014, 05:59:42 PM »
there wasn't even any blood or a lot of tears when Femeto took Casca in the movie, that was my point. I do not even recall if Casca said "no" or "stop" or "don't look" even once during the whole rape scene in the movie like she did in the manga. She does look like she is activly getting into it in the movie and she is making these little excited noises the whole time. That was my point. You could almost get the impression that she enjoyed Femeto better then she enjoyed Guts with the way it is framed in the movie.

Everything involving Casca and Griffith interactions is just off in this movie.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18736
  • Karma: 702
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #212 on: April 02, 2014, 06:04:05 PM »
there wasn't even any blood or a lot of tears when Femeto took Casca in the movie, that was my point. I do not even recall if Casca said "no" or "stop" or "don't look" even once during the whole rape scene in the movie like she did in the manga.

Well, you were talking about the manga as well as the movies and the TV series in your previous post, which is why I replied. There was blood and tears in the manga, and that's really all that matters.

Everything involving Casca and Griffith interactions is just off in this movie.

Let me go further: everything is off in this movie. :puck:

Offline Heavenly Maiden

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #213 on: April 02, 2014, 06:26:43 PM »
I'm sorry I misunderstood you when I read your post. I do have my reasons for believing the way that I do but this is probably not the right context to get into it. At any rate I was offended by how erotic the depiction of the rape was in the movie even compared to the manga or anime series.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18736
  • Karma: 702
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #214 on: April 02, 2014, 06:32:37 PM »
I'm sorry I misunderstood you when I read your post.

No problem. And yeah, not the right context. I've written long posts about it in the past, so feel free to search for them if you ever feel like changing your views on the subject.

At any rate I was offended by how erotic the depiction of the rape was in the movie even compared to the manga or anime series.

We can agree on that. It's revulsing.

Offline Patou244

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #215 on: April 04, 2014, 07:53:58 PM »
The eclipse in this movie was disgusting. I was so angry over how Casca's "rape" was handled, like others have said it looked erotic and that offended me most of all. None of ther anguish that Casca goes through is even present during the rape and she is moaning the whle time. WTF? I really want to know what kind of direction the voice actress for Casca was given during the recording session for that scene. Was she told by the voice over director to sound like she was excitied and make those little sounds? This makes me worry what kind of impression the creative developemnt staff had during that scene in the manga. Did it come across as she was enjoying it or erotic in the manga? Did they bounce any of these details off of Miura while doing this scene. How how much say did Miura had for this project?

Casca in even has a scene where she looks at Guts and almost looks like she is smiling a little bit when she tells him to look away:



look she is fucking blushing here. She does not look at all like she is in anguish. ANd when she tells him to look away she sounds like she is orgasming. I was so pissed off with how this played.

This movie tottally fucked up this whole thing.The movie even did something else that changed the perspective of the rape, when Casca looks up at Griffith and says his name the movie frames it that she has a little image of Griffith restored to his former glory for brief moment before he kisses her. It is small but it makes Casca come off like she is aware it is Griffith and she is admiring him right before he kisses her instead of being exausted and dazed in the manga and the anime series. It gives off the impression that she is willingly accepting his kiss because...she is glad he is him again...or something. I know maybe I am making more out of this then I should but that is the sick impression I got from the scene.

 I can only imagine all the Casca enjoyed it people are going to have more fuel to work with now.


Casca from Berserk. May 2014 be the year Casca fans get to see a return of her true self, the kickass warrior and leader of the Hawks/Falcons.

Offline Mammon

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Mangoku army
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #216 on: April 04, 2014, 08:01:30 PM »
(I didn't know in which of the 3 movies threads I should post this, I started it in the Capture of Doldrey thread, but then I started writing about the other movies as well, so I figured I should put it in the 3rd one, in the very unlikely event that somebody who watched only the first 2 movies and wouldn't want to be spoiled for the third, would be reading the thread)

I really disliked Descent, it might be the worst out of the 3...
 I'll try to give my global point of view, but forgive me if my English is awkward, Frenchie here...

I discovered the manga about 10 years ago (I was 16), and watched/bought the anime later, like 2 or 3 years after buying all the volumes that were out.
Just a small precision, because usually for Berserk it's the other way around, and most of my friends started with the anime and then picked up the manga.
I've never been a huge fan of the anime, maybe because I don't have the nostalgia factor of discovering Berserk that way; mostly bought the DVD compilation because I collect anime, and to add my modest small stone to support Miura.  :griffnotevil:
So when they announced some new movies I was very excited, and thought "sweet, finally maybe the adaptation that my favorite manga deserves!"

When the first movie came out I was so enthusiastic that I even bought the french "collector" DVD edition -
Which is already a complete, cheap disappointment in itself by the way - before even watching the film. Dead giveaway in retrospective.

The big box is empty save for a cheap plastic Beherit necklace -just the small Beherit, not even something to pass around your neck-, what I thought was some kind of small poster (nice!  :troll: ), and ended up being a publicity flyer for the studio that released the DVD (yay...   :schierke: ), and 2 DVDs
- one for the movie (in french, and jap+french subtitles)
- and the other... just for the second movie's trailer.
Oh, and 2 interviews, like 5 min long each, of the actors dubbing Guts and Casca's voices. 
They seem nice and all but they don't know anything about the manga (to their credit they do admit that they never read it, but why interview them then?) and just speculate and rant... nothing interesting at all. They might as well have had interviewed some random people in the street... it really puzzles me, why did they ask people who don't know anything about Berserk their opinion about it?

A single DVD for a short trailer and a couple of cheap "bonus exclusive actors interviews!!11" ; did they really have to use 2 DVDs, or did they want the box to look more stacked? :youcanthandlethetruth!!!:

Anyway, since I collect everything related to Berserk (and all my favorite manga/anime) and I'm always looking to support Miura, I bought the first movie, was disappointed but thought, "Ok, they have 2 other movies to redeem themselves, I still want to believe!".

The first movie still embarrassed me, because (for the anecdote) my girlfriend, who is not into manga/anime at all, actually asked me if we could watch it, because one of my tattoos is the "brand";
She saw it on the DVD box, and was curious about what could be so great about Berserk that I wanted to get a tattoo related to it.
At the university she also heard me talking about the manga with some friends who are also passionate about it, so yeah she was curious.
I was so embarrassed to watch it with her, because at the end of the first film, even if I told her before that it sucked compared to the
manga and even the old anime, I could tell she didn't get into the story and thought it was bad, and how could I blame her? I had to explain a lot of stuff, at least the anime, even if flawed in many ways, you didn't have to talk all the time to explain who is who and why this and that happened, etc.

Aaaanyway, sorry for the rant... so; I usually don't download anime, except when they didn't release it in English or French, but for the second and third movie I decided to watch them first before buying, still feeling ripped off after buying the infamous "collector box"...

I'm really glad I did, I watched the 2nd and 3rd movie in one sitting, was extremely disappointed, and will never purchase the DVDs.
I don't want to give my money to, and support people who destroyed my favorite manga, and will prevent me from watching a real, good adaptation for God knows how long...
I mean, if Studio 4C didn't make those new movies, eventually another one could have bought the rights and most likely would have done a better job (how could you possibly screw up more than they did?).
But now, if another studio wants to give it a shot, it will be in a very very long time. If someone ever decide to make another adaptation after that complete failure...

To address some specific points:
What happened to Boscone?
In the manga, he appears after we have already met several apostles ("only" Zodd chronologically, but we, readers, already know others), and even if he is only human, he's still a very intimidating antagonist.
He has that aura of invincibility of a master of warfare, impressive Guts-like strength, and a bunch of other reasons that made almost all the Berserk enthusiasts like his character.

But in the movie he just looks like some random semi-boss, and isn't very different from "movie Adon", another character they  screwed up.

Even the way he dies is pathetic, I mean Guts throws a flag pole at him, "Oh noes!", cuts him in half, weird fountain of blood, done.
They had the opportunity to make sure that the "casual" public wouldn't forget about Zodd by sticking to the manga and have him help Guts out.
In that trilogy Zodd appears in the first film, then nothing in the second, and he re-appears fighting Skull Knight during the eclipse. The friends who watched it (and are anime fans, those ones just didn't read Berserk) were kinda confused when he re-appeared.

I still wonder why they changed the end of the Guts/Boscone fight, the real scene is so much better, and not that much longer, and it had the advantage of keeping Zodd around and have him in all 3 movies, why, why would they want to change that?

What a mess they did, I had the manga in my head while watching it so I could fill the blanks, fix the scenes/dialogues, etc, but my "anime enthusiast buddies" were lost.
Oh, and they all laughed during the sex scenes. They were so bad, between Charlotte who already starts to scream in ecstasy as soon as Griffith touches her boob, and then, how could I formulate it, the mechanical sex? Same thing for Guts/Casca, they make love like robots, I don't know how to explain in English sorry... Ubik can show you the rhythm though =>  :ubik:
Speaking about sex scenes, for my friends (the ones who didn't read the manga) there was no doubt in their mind that Casca enjoyed the "sex" with Femto ("Wait, really, it was a rape? Wow, I have the most awkward boner right now").

In the manga, Guts first time is such an important moment considering his past, but thinking about it... since they completely omitted his past in the movies, well it's really bad but since the context was even worst, it makes it sucks less.
I know, it doesn't make sense...

While writing this I realize that i'm preaching to the choir, that all of you love the manga and probably disliked the movie (but good for you if some of you liked them, at least some parts of the community enjoyed themselves), so I'm not even sure it's useful to develop all the other points;
Like how they erased any trace of humor, screwed up the ball, removed Gennon's creepiness/depravation (sp?) by having him taking a bath with happy-looking Griffth look-alike instead of hanging with a bunch of of sad kids, skipped Adon's comic/typical-manga-villain side, the shape of the characters mouth/lips  :puck: a minor one but for some reason it bothered me, especially for Guts.
Is it just me or is face very is different from the manga?
I read the 3 threads about the movies in this sections a few months ago, but don't remember reading anything about that. So about their mouths it's maybe just me... and so many other things, it will be quicker to list what I liked about the 3 movies:
It will be short. Compared to the old anime, I liked better:

- Silat. He is one of my favorite "minor" characters, and it was an improvement to see him and other Kushan (I remember counting 2 other Bakiraka with him) leading the soldiers attacking the Hawks, instead of the nameless guys from the anime.
Problem: He looked too much like a psychotic/evil villain, it looks/sounds like he can't wait to cut Casca's head...  he is more professional in the manga.
But at least I enjoyed his fights against Casca and Guts, nice little moment.

- The intro by Susumu Hirasawa is really badass, I didn't like the old anime intro; so there is also that...

- They kept the creepy gnome who tortures Griffith for a whole year from the manga, instead of switching him with a nameless random guy. Wow, I'm trying to list the "good" parts of the movies and it's one of the only things that come to my mind. What a shitty trilogy.

- The eclipse was flawed in many ways, but there was still some cool moments, like when the God Hand is introduced, especially Ubik  :ubik: 
And for some reason I kinda liked the "Ying-Yang" apostle who kills Judo, the way he moves, the sounds he makes...
And to be completely honest, while I don't understand why they changed it, I liked the way Void's shield worked in the movie, with SK's sword appearing behind him instead of in front of him.

But yeah I'm really trying hard to find some parts that didn't either pissed me off, made me laugh for the wrong reasons, or just made me wonder how a studio could have the idea to make some Berserk movies and being so clueless about it.
You would think that they were really big fans of the manga, how did they manage to f*ck up so badly?
I'm actually curious about it, did anyone from the movies crew made any comments about it? I remember reading (maybe even on this forum) that even in Japan, it was kind of a commercial failure.
I would be curious to know the reasons of this epic fail, maybe if they include some interviews from the actual directors instead of the French dubbers I'd buy the other DVDs  :troll:

Ok I'm finally done this time.
Cheers to all the members who keep this forum alive, it's really interesting to read you guys.

pre-edit: "Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post."
What the h- ...
Word, Patou. I only quickly addressed this point in my post, but they really did a disgusting job handling Casca's rape.

Mammon
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 08:01:33 AM by Mammon »

Offline Doc

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #217 on: April 04, 2014, 10:52:59 PM »
This movie tottally fucked up this whole thing.The movie even did something else that changed the perspective of the rape, when Casca looks up at Griffith and says his name the movie frames it that she has a little image of Griffith restored to his former glory for brief moment before he kisses her. It is small but it makes Casca come off like she is aware it is Griffith and she is admiring him right before he kisses her instead of being exausted and dazed in the manga and the anime series. It gives off the impression that she is willingly accepting his kiss because...she is glad he is him again...or something. I know maybe I am making more out of this then I should but that is the sick impression I got from the scene.

I think it was meant to strike a contrast between the heroic Griffith who saved her in the past, and the demon who's about to rape her. I certainly don't think the intention was to eroticize Casca's ordeal. It's just that, with most things in these movies, the execution was badly mishandled to say the least.

Offline Heavenly Maiden

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #218 on: April 07, 2014, 10:48:16 PM »
I think the whole rape scene, even in the manga is supposed to come across as unclear as to how  Casca is reacting to what is happening. I think Miura did that on purpose. Given Casca's past (or present) feelings for Griffith there is definitely big question marks on it. About half the fan base thinks she enjoyed it on some level, that could not have been a coincidence.

What offended me about this movies depiction is that pretty much all doubt is gone about Casca's reaction to this when it is supposed to be unclear.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 16274
  • Karma: 546
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #219 on: April 07, 2014, 11:15:57 PM »
I think the whole rape scene, even in the manga is supposed to come across as unclear as to how  Casca is reacting to what is happening. I think Miura did that on purpose. Given Casca's past (or present) feelings for Griffith there is definitely big question marks on it.
Quote
About half the fan base thinks she enjoyed it on some level, that could not have been a coincidence.

That's quite a generalization. Where are these supporters? And what is their reasoning for that conclusion? The fact that some readers don't catch key elements is no proof of anything. It happens in every volume. In almost every episode. Correcting these misunderstandings is one of the fundamental reasons that this site is still around. But this particular one baffles me.

Are you saying Casca wasn't raped? Please stop the bullshit train right here. Sure, the Griffith-Casca-Guts triangle is complicated (actually, allegiances were more clear at this stage of the series--she pitied Griffith), but she's confused at first. As she's being groped while waking up, she utters Griffith's name. But then she realizes what's happening, and she has a look of terror. Tears in her eyes, saying No, No, No, then telling Guts not to watch, thrown to the ground afterward like a chew toy--the ordeal shattered her mind and caused her to fear being touched by men. I guess she just liked it THAT MUCH, huh? This line of reasoning transforms what should be one of the most grueling scenes in the series into a love scene. How do you rationalize that? If you'd prefer to disregard all of these obvious narrative and visual clues that it wasn't a consensual affair, and want to bring the word "moisture" into the conversation, then I would point you in the direction of any number of articles on female physiology and sexual response during rape scenarios. It's sure to be light, sunny reading for "half the fan  base."

While we're here, maybe Guts liked his night with Donovan, on some level? Sure he was held against his will, and the ordeal made him pull back from people and fear being touched (hey wait, this sounds familiar!), but Guts ultimately shot him in the mouth with a crossbow, and that's an utterly phallic form of killing someone--I'm detecting clear undertones here, people!
 
Can I stop? Are we done? Is this nightmare over yet?

Offline Mammon

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Mangoku army
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #220 on: April 08, 2014, 03:36:17 AM »
While we're here, maybe Guts liked his night with Donovan, on some level? Sure he was held against his will, and the ordeal made him pull back from people and fear being touched (hey wait, this sounds familiar!), but Guts ultimately shot him in the mouth with a crossbow, and that's an utterly phallic form of killing someone--I'm detecting clear undertones here, people!

I think I laughed way too hard at this...  :farnese:

But yeah
Quote
About half the fan base thinks she enjoyed it on some level, that could not have been a coincidence.
A big number (half is generous) of manga enthusiasts (or people in general) love retarded theories. But even so, I didn't meet that many Berserk fans who thought she enjoyed the rape.

I think I discovered this interesting theory on this forum actually, always in old, closed threads, always spouted by guys who were then raped in turn by the admins, until they admitted they were wrong and/or left the forum. 

It just doesn't make sense. Casca's feelings are obviously complicated about Guts and Griffith, but that doesn't automatically means she enjoyed being brutally raped by Femto in front of hundreds of apostles; and Guts being restrained, her true love.
After all her friends have been killed in horrible ways because of the guy who is raping her...

No way.




Offline Tama

  • Falconian
  • Of the Interstice
  • *****
  • Posts: 238
  • Karma: 33
  • Gender: Female
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #221 on: April 08, 2014, 05:01:24 AM »
One thing that really bugged me during the eclipse was the music they used. To me it didn't fit well and didn't add any tension or nail biting anticipation. I remember when my friend and I watched the tv show for the first time and the haunting sound tracks they use for the last two episodes like 'murder' and the Beherit theme are so well done. I don't mind other musicians trying their musical take on the world of Berserk, but please use something more appropriate next time and not phoned in.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18736
  • Karma: 702
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #222 on: April 08, 2014, 07:04:05 AM »
I think the whole rape scene, even in the manga is supposed to come across as unclear

Blood and tears, the tell-tale signs of enjoyment. Extreme psychological trauma, the hallmark of a having had a good time!

Given Casca's past (or present) feelings for Griffith

Casca has no present feelings for "Griffith", nor for anyone really. She's in a regressed state of mind, remember? You're confused because of her reaction to her son (which she perceives inside Griffith) in volume 22, I imagine. Same old story.

About half the fan base thinks she enjoyed it on some level

Please don't invent statistics.

One thing that really bugged me during the eclipse was the music they used. To me it didn't fit well and didn't add any tension or nail biting anticipation. I remember when my friend and I watched the tv show for the first time and the haunting sound tracks they use for the last two episodes like 'murder' and the Beherit theme are so well done. I don't mind other musicians trying their musical take on the world of Berserk, but please use something more appropriate next time and not phoned in.

Yeah, music was mostly misused throughout those movies, and it was particularly bad then.

Offline Deci

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Avatar by supereva01 @ DA
Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #223 on: April 08, 2014, 10:07:55 AM »
"Enjoying it on some level" is a really stupid combination of words to use when talking about rape. That's the whole point of rape, to force someone to feel something sexual they do not want to feel. What's more horrifying than people thinking Casca "wanted it", is the thought that these people clearly do not understand what rape is.

It has nothing to do with Casca's feelings for Griffith on any level. She did not want to be raped on any level, regardless of any feelings (which solely belong to Guts at this point in the story).

I think I'm going to pretend these people just don't think before they speak, and they actually understand this.

....................


BACK TO THE THREAD:

Decided to pre-order the movie in English, having already own it in Japanese. Miura gets some of the money I suppose... I dunno why I really, that's just the rationalization I go with. I suppose I can lend it out after someone has at least watched the 1997 TV series first. Having the power to have it and withhold it is satisfying on some level.  :femto:

Offline Patou244

Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc III: Descent [Review]
« Reply #224 on: April 15, 2014, 08:38:08 PM »

Are you saying Casca wasn't raped? Please stop the bullshit train right here. Sure, the Griffith-Casca-Guts triangle is complicated (actually, allegiances were more clear at this stage of the series--she pitied Griffith), but she's confused at first. As she's being groped while waking up, she utters Griffith's name. But then she realizes what's happening, and she has a look of terror. Tears in her eyes, saying No, No, No, then telling Guts not to watch, thrown to the ground afterward like a chew toy--the ordeal shattered her mind and caused her to fear being touched by men. I guess she just liked it THAT MUCH, huh? This line of reasoning transforms what should be one of the most grueling scenes in the series into a love scene. How do you rationalize that? If you'd prefer to disregard all of these obvious narrative and visual clues that it wasn't a consensual affair, and want to bring the word "moisture" into the conversation, then I would point you in the direction of any number of articles on female physiology and sexual response during rape scenarios. It's sure to be light, sunny reading for "half the fan  base."

While we're here, maybe Guts liked his night with Donovan, on some level? Sure he was held against his will, and the ordeal made him pull back from people and fear being touched (hey wait, this sounds familiar!), but Guts ultimately shot him in the mouth with a crossbow, and that's an utterly phallic form of killing someone--I'm detecting clear undertones here, people

reading this makes me feel really good. I was seriously beginning to think that there were not anyone out there that believed  Casca was truamatized and genuanly a victim during the eclipse. It is nice to read a defence for Casca that is based in logic and facts. Some fans either completely misinterpret this scene or they go off on emotional biased rants on how "Casca was no innocent victim" during the rape. Is it fair to call it a rape then if she was participating in it as actively as some fans claim she was? Most people get hung over on the fact that Casca had deep feelings for Griffith and that she had chosen to stay with Griffith instead of going away with Guts right before the eclipse happened as one of the many reasons they beleive she "enjoyed it." How does that make sense? But it amazes me how some fans drive this fact so hard as evidense that she did.

I swear to God on one message board I was on once I actually saw someone claim that her going insane doesn't prove that she didn't enjoy it. Their reasoning? She could have enjoyed it and then lost her mind out of shame of enjoying it in front of Guts...really? :schierke:

I'm sorry to say this but I suspect that the ones who insist so hard that "Casca enjoyed it" might have got off on the rape scene imagery in the manga themselves and are just projecting that onto the character...the things I've read from some of the more perverted fans out there on the "rape scenes" in the manga is pretty out there. And the female fans who insisit she enjoyed it I suspect they just don't like Casca the character to begin with and they just want a more substantial reason to be biased against her. 

All I want is for Casca to get healed so all this "she enjoyed it" speculation can finally stop. But after this movie and the craptastic way they portayed it I can only imagine they are going to have more fuel to work with. Walter is right, Something that should have been a scene made up of pure horror for Casca is trivilzed by this way of line of thinking...and this movie did not help it.

Quote
Casca has no present feelings (...) for anyone really

except her child. And she relies on Farnese.

Casca from Berserk. May 2014 be the year Casca fans get to see a return of her true self, the kickass warrior and leader of the Hawks/Falcons.