Author Topic: Rapey Griff  (Read 3434 times)

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Offline Zoddiscute

Rapey Griff
« on: July 24, 2013, 11:14:20 PM »
In regard to Griffith's rape of Casca, my take on it is that it was necessary to create the demon child that would serve him in his incarnation.

It seems strange to me that Griffith would do it out of revenge or power as when he became Femto didn't he shed his human emotions?

Griffiths character post Eclipse seems inconsistent to me, as Femto he comes across as more pure Evil, especially his actions during the Eclipse, but then since he's incarnated again he seems to have more of a human element again, like when he see's Guts at the hill of swords. Maybe I am not understanding the Manga fully.

Perhaps Miura himself has changed Griffiths motives over time, and the Eclipse actions were more for shock value?

Be interesting to hear people thoughts on this.

Offline Walter

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 11:39:23 PM »
The rape accomplished two ends, it allowed for the birth of a suitable vessel for him later on, and it was also clearly a display of his power after being powerless for so long.

Griffiths character post Eclipse seems inconsistent to me, as Femto he comes across as more pure Evil, especially his actions during the Eclipse, but then since he's incarnated again he seems to have more of a human element again, like when he see's Guts at the hill of swords. Maybe I am not understanding the Manga fully.
You're not understanding things. You're buying the act he's been putting on for humans, when truly he's still Femto.

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Perhaps Miura himself has changed Griffiths motives over time, and the Eclipse actions were more for shock value?
No.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 12:00:32 AM »
Okay thanks, that makes sense. Since Griff incarnated and he contains some of Guts baby, has that changed him though to have a human element? he acts differently to Guts on the hill of swords to when we see him as Femto early in the Manga.

As Femto he looks down on Guts, saying he is just a sacrifice, when if I remember correctly on the hill of swords he asks guts if he would join him?

Also my friend thinks that the rape was also to incite Guts rage so that Guts would pursue him, and he thinks that in some way Griffith is still using guts as a tool to suit his own agenda.

Maybe Guts has a part to play in Griffiths future plans?


Offline Walter

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 12:25:52 AM »
Okay thanks, that makes sense. Since Griff incarnated and he contains some of Guts baby, has that changed him though to have a human element?
As depicted in the manga, the child was able to drive Griffith to protect Casca. We then get a rare internal glimpse at Griffith's feelings, and he said he thought that part "was frozen." But no, none of that means he has "a human element," as a result of the child (who was part demon).

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he acts differently to Guts on the hill of swords to when we see him as Femto early in the Manga.
As Femto he looks down on Guts, saying he is just a sacrifice, when if I remember correctly on the hill of swords he asks guts if he would join him?
You are misremembering things. Griffith appeared in front of Guts to confirm that his new body transcended his older weakness. "Now I am free."

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Also my friend thinks that the rape was also to incite Guts rage so that Guts would pursue him, and he thinks that in some way Griffith is still using guts as a tool to suit his own agenda.
Sounds elaborate, but it's not based on any real facts though. Unless you have something in mind?

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Maybe Guts has a part to play in Griffiths future plans?
He was able to manipulate the Skull Knight, so why not? But I don't think it's as elaborate as you insinuated above.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 01:14:55 AM »
As depicted in the manga, the child was able to drive Griffith to protect Casca. We then get a rare internal glimpse at Griffith's feelings, and he said he thought that part "was frozen." But no, none of that means he has "a human element," as a result of the child (who was part demon).
You are misremembering things. Griffith appeared in front of Guts to confirm that his new body transcended his older weakness. "Now I am free."
Sounds elaborate, but it's not based on any real facts though. Unless you have something in mind?
He was able to manipulate the Skull Knight, so why not? But I don't think it's as elaborate as you insinuated above.

Not really, its hard to see where the story is going at this point, i'm expecting they may be some major shit going down soon though, my friend was discussing how he thinks Casca may go back to Griffith once she regains her sanity, and how guts could potentially go berserk in the armour and kill some of his comrades, that would be pretty bleak though, but wouldn't be surprised if there's more shocking events to come. Also my friend thinks that Griffith could kill off the other God Hand at some point if they get in his way, not sure about that though as I don't see how they could come to odds.

There's so many possibilities it is exiting! I can't wait for more Berserk.

Offline Walter

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 02:23:07 AM »
my friend was discussing how he thinks Casca may go back to Griffith once she regains her sanity
Won't happen. Casca changed since her time under Griffith's wing. Re-read volumes 8-12 for evidence, specifically Judeau's observations in volume 8. "Does she realize how much she has changed...?" As for her vow to care for Griffith before the Eclipse happened, that was done out of pity and duty to her former leader—it wasn't where her heart wanted to go. And after all that happened as a result of Griffith's selfishness, and all Guts has endured for Casca's sake I don't see how any sane person could think that's where the story is headed.

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and how guts could potentially go berserk in the armour and kill some of his comrades, that would be pretty bleak though
It's been a rather apparent threat since he donned the armor, but I honestly don't think it would happen. It would be a point of no return for the current group. He couldn't exactly say: "Oh... my bad!" After that.

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Also my friend thinks that Griffith could kill off the other God Hand at some point if they get in his way, not sure about that though as I don't see how they could come to odds.
Your friend is having the same thoughts most new readers of the series have had for a decade. But they don't have any real grounds other than idle speculation at this point.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 02:35:53 AM »
Yeah he's one of those people who thinks Casca enjoyed being raped by Femto, so that's why he came to that conclusion.

Offline Walter

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 02:44:01 AM »
Yeah he's one of those people who thinks Casca enjoyed being raped by Femto, so that's why he came to that conclusion.
:schierke: Sounds like a real ladies man.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 07:06:43 AM »
:schierke: Sounds like a real ladies man.

Yeah out of the 5 or so friends I know who have seen Berserk, at least 2 of them thought Casca enjoyed the rape, most of them havn't read the Manga though, so they aren't aware of her insanity afterwards.

Maybe its a way for people to rationalise the events to themselves to make them slightly less horrific? as in she enjoyed so it makes it slightly more easier for them to deal with what happened.

Charlotte did seem to enjoy it though, Even though she does say 'No' at least two times, Griff persists. Maybe with Charlotte it was a case of 'No' means 'Yes' lol.

I'm going more from the original Anime though, I need to read the Manga again to see how it was depicted originally.

I Guess Griff uses sex to reinforce his power, hence 'Rapey Griff'.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2013, 11:41:46 AM »
In regard to Griffith's rape of Casca, my take on it is that it was necessary to create the demon child that would serve him in his incarnation.

What makes you think Femto already knew he was to be incarnated a few years later, and that the child would be the vessel for it? That it happened the way it did certainly implies that those events were foreordained, but the one being whose level of control over the world would allow for such things is the Idea of Evil. Because it's not like raping Casca would have sufficed. There was a countless amount of occurrences that led to the Incarnation ceremony, none of which could have been planned by Femto.

It seems strange to me that Griffith would do it out of revenge or power as when he became Femto didn't he shed his human emotions?

The exact process of the transformation is not known to us, but it's not like they lose all emotion whatsoever. When Femto raped Casca he was very obviously doing it to hurt Guts (and Casca herself, needless to say, but what adds insult to injury is that he didn't seem to care much about her either way).

Griffiths character post Eclipse seems inconsistent to me, as Femto he comes across as more pure Evil, especially his actions during the Eclipse, but then since he's incarnated again he seems to have more of a human element again, like when he see's Guts at the hill of swords. Maybe I am not understanding the Manga fully.

See what Walter said. When Femto was incarnated, the body he received looked like his old one, the one he had when he was still Griffith. And people still call him Griffith and such, but it's not like he's any different. He's still Femto.

Since Griff incarnated

Femto was incarnated. To be incarnated means to take on a body of flesh. Femto was a pure spirit.

he contains some of Guts baby, has that changed him though to have a human element?

Guts' son, whose body was "taken over" by Femto, still exists somewhere within the new "Griffith". But it doesn't seem like they have truly fused together. The boy is able to influence that new Griffith, but more like an outside influence, or a parasitic one I guess (although that is ironic considering Femto is the true parasite in that body).

As Femto he looks down on Guts, saying he is just a sacrifice, when if I remember correctly on the hill of swords he asks guts if he would join him?

It's to Rickert that he says he can join him... He's as scornful to Guts in both instances.

Also my friend thinks that the rape was also to incite Guts rage so that Guts would pursue him, and he thinks that in some way Griffith is still using guts as a tool to suit his own agenda.

I highly doubt that.

my friend was discussing how he thinks Casca may go back to Griffith once she regains her sanity, and how guts could potentially go berserk in the armour and kill some of his comrades, that would be pretty bleak though, but wouldn't be surprised if there's more shocking events to come. Also my friend thinks that Griffith could kill off the other God Hand at some point if they get in his way, not sure about that though as I don't see how they could come to odds.

I'm going to go ahead and say that none of the above is going to happen.

Yeah out of the 5 or so friends I know who have seen Berserk, at least 2 of them thought Casca enjoyed the rape, most of them havn't read the Manga though, so they aren't aware of her insanity afterwards.

They must not know what the word "rape" means either.

Charlotte did seem to enjoy it though, Even though she does say 'No' at least two times, Griff persists. Maybe with Charlotte it was a case of 'No' means 'Yes' lol.

I think it's pretty clear that Griffith did not rape Charlotte. Again, see what the word "rape" means.

I'm going more from the original Anime though

Generally speaking, that's not a good idea. Always refer yourself to the manga.

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2013, 11:51:55 AM »
Thanks for your clarification on those points, I do know what rape means though, not sure what you are getting at with that comment.

I was making the point that in the Anime it comes across that Griffith is very forceful with Charlotte at the start, even though she goes along with it eventually, she does resist initially. I haven't read that part of the Manga in a while so I'm not sure how it is depicted there, but in the Anime his actions do come across as being forceful.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 12:19:08 PM »
Thanks for your clarification on those points, I do know what rape means though, not sure what you are getting at with that comment.

No problem, and I meant that in regard to your friends who think Casca could have enjoyed being raped. By definition rape is not something one enjoys.

I was making the point that in the Anime it comes across that Griffith is very forceful with Charlotte at the start, even though she goes along with it eventually, she does resist initially. I haven't read that part of the Manga in a while so I'm not sure how it is depicted there, but in the Anime his actions do come across as being forceful.

In the manga he pushed himself on her for sure, but not overly so, and she clearly reciprocates his affection. It can hardly be misinterpreted.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 01:37:16 PM »
Anyway I'm sure Charlotte said "no" as it was her first time, probably scared and certainly did not want to get into trouble. That did not stop her to continue though and when she wakes up in the morning it's clear that it was consenting. She was clearly in love with Griffith to that point.

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2013, 02:32:54 AM »
Anyway I'm sure Charlotte said "no" as it was her first time, probably scared and certainly did not want to get into trouble. That did not stop her to continue though and when she wakes up in the morning it's clear that it was consenting. She was clearly in love with Griffith to that point.

Yeah I understand that Charlotte was consenting, I was more talking about how Griffith used the sex to reinforce his power, it wasn't really about his affection for Charlotte, it was him using that to get over Guts leaving, like with the Casca rape it was more about Femto getting revenge on Guts.

But Griffith having sex with Charlotte to repair his ego is more easily relateable obviously.  Anyway not sure where I'm going with this, just how Griffith has the pattern of using sex as a means to regain his power.

Offline Walter

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2013, 02:36:35 AM »
Yeah I understand that Charlotte was consenting, I was more talking about how Griffith used the sex to reinforce his power, it wasn't really about his affection for Charlotte, it was him using that to get over Guts leaving
It wasn't just her comfort he was seeking that night though. After such a devastating loss, he seized the next step in his conquest too quickly and was burned for it.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2013, 03:00:42 AM »
It wasn't just her comfort he was seeking that night though. After such a devastating loss, he seized the next step in his conquest too quickly and was burned for it.

That's an interesting point, but surely Griff wasn't thinking rationally at this point or about his conquest, it was more him trying to fill the void that Guts left to ease his pain. But yeah I can see how there could be an element of that on a subconscious level.

Offline Walter

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 04:04:01 AM »
That's an interesting point, but surely Griff wasn't thinking rationally at this point or about his conquest, it was more him trying to fill the void that Guts left to ease his pain. But yeah I can see how there could be an element of that on a subconscious level.
It's not that hard to grasp. Guts left, making Griffith feel like he had no control, so he played a card that was a sure thing, and it backfired.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rapey Griff
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 09:04:55 AM »
surely Griff wasn't thinking rationally at this point or about his conquest, it was more him trying to fill the void that Guts left to ease his pain.

He was too bold and careless, but his thinking wasn't irrational. Seducing Charlotte was always his plan for the throne, for his dream. So on the contrary, that's exactly what he was doing.