Author Topic: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?  (Read 37975 times)

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Offline ApostleBob

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Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« on: July 25, 2013, 04:47:42 PM »
But there's no indication that Casca was raped by the apostles who captured her.

Not to dredge up an old topic, but I think there's a fair abount of indication that she was raped by the apostles. 

First off, the apostles didn't eat her or tear her to pieces for a reason.  They make the distinction that she's a "woman sacrifice," leer at her, and then tear off all her clothes.  Wyald is only one indication of a rapey apostle, but we do know that they're all pretty base in their enjoyment.

Then the next time we see Casca, she's hoisted by the tentacle apostle and she seems unconscious or in a daze. Why is she not screaming her head off or terrified? She seems punch drunk or exhausted.  If they were just passing her around, it seems weird that she'd be in this state.

Next, there is a lot of blood specifically around her genitals.  She has other scrapes and cuts but there is a lot down below and I recall there even being panels that highlight this.

Lastly, later on in the series, there are several times where crazy Casca is assaulted by men who want to rape her and she has flashbacks.  However her flashbacks are always of the apostles, never of Griffith.  Almost as if there was some horrible trauma related to the apostles that she associated with rape...

There are other small things like the fact that most of the apostles surrounding her when Guts sees her are phallic in pretty distinct ways.  This doesn't prove anything per se, but it seems to imply quite a lot about what these guys were up to. 

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that the time between Guts fighting the apostles atop the alter to the time where he found Casca was pretty parallel to the time spent where Casca and Judeau ran away to the point where Judeau died and the apostles swarmed her.  These two are meant to overlap if you're paying attention.  However it does seem like there was some missing time in between.

Also from a story telling perspective, the tension seems somewhat lessoned if the deed is already done, but then again they were likely going to finish her off in the most degrading way possible.  It's also more powerful if Femto stops them and then rapes her himself.  And I can also see the argument that the God Hand wouldn't want sloppy seconds.

But whether that seems to feel better from a story perspective, it doesn't seem to be what Miura indicates with everything else.  The flashbacks and wounds just seem too damning for me.

Online Walter

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 04:53:18 PM »
Next we see bloody genitals. Could you hand me a Q-tip? I'm going to get a sample for the crime lab.
Gross.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 06:48:53 PM »
Gross.

Hey man, I didn't draw it.  And that quote isn't what I said...

Online Walter

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 07:24:10 PM »
Hey man, I didn't draw it.  And that quote isn't what I said...
I'm saying gross to this whole discussion. I can't believe this is a topic we're seriously talking about. The made-up quote was clearly a gag pointing out how laser-focused you are on genital penetration. Think of it as me verbally shaking you and asking you ARE YOU SERIOUS?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 07:51:10 PM »
I'm saying gross to this whole discussion. I can't believe this is a topic we're seriously talking about. The made-up quote was clearly a gag pointing out how laser-focused you are on genital penetration. Think of it as me verbally shaking you and asking you ARE YOU SERIOUS?

We don't have to talk about it.  It was just a reply to whether Casca was raped by the apostles or not.  I thought the volume implied heavily that she had and was explaining what in the volume led me to that conclusion. Sorry if it grossed you out.  Not trying to be graphic, but any discussion of this subject is gonna have an ick factor.  And omitting details is only gonna have other members jump on me for speculation. 

Moving on, I agree with Aaz that the omission of Guts trying to save her from the apostles was not an improvement.  It was an incredibly desperate moment that was perfectly punctuated with Femto's birth.  The way it plays out in the movie is just alright, but lacks the impact it could have had.

Offline Hanma_Baki

Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 08:14:35 PM »
...after Guts sees all of his comrades dead, the last straw is Casca, unconscious, being toted around like a trophy by one of them (much like the others' remains were by other apostles). Then Guts made a mad dash to save her, only to finally be stopped in his track when Volkov bit his arm. Now this is a pretty desperate scene as Guts is rushing to her, trying to avoid her being impaled (and most likely killed) ignominiously. Then, as he watches powerlessly, the apostle stops. The scene freezes as Femto is born. Guts has to watch it all, him descending, and then actually raping her...

...And they basically replaced it with Guts just standing there staring like a retard :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 09:01:32 PM »
Not to dredge up an old topic

That's just what you're doing.

First off, the apostles didn't eat her or tear her to pieces for a reason.

She's special in that she's a woman. And that one apostle was going to kill her right there and then, in front of Guts. That apostle wasn't among those who had captured her either, so maybe they fought for who would have the right to eat her (which is what they mention when capturing her, by the way, not rape)? They certainly all seemed to take pride in how many sacrifices they'd "got". Anyways, if she'd already been raped by everything around at that point, why hadn't they eaten her or torn her to pieces? Your point actually casts more doubt on your interpretation than it adds credence to it. Why keep her alive after having raped her? It makes no sense.

And that's assuming the process of raping her with monstrous appendages wouldn't have already killed her or severely wounded her. When Femto violated her, she was rather sensitive, as is explicitly shown to the reader. Had she been butchered by monsters I doubt it would have been the case.

Then the next time we see Casca, she's hoisted by the tentacle apostle and she seems unconscious or in a daze. Why is she not screaming her head off or terrified?

Because she's struggled to exhaustion or until they knocked her unconscious? It's not like being raped would necessarily make her unconscious either...

Next, there is a lot of blood specifically around her genitals.  She has other scrapes and cuts but there is a lot down below and I recall there even being panels that highlight this.

You don't recall it well. She's bloody from various cuts across her body, not specifically there. There's a picture of blood dropping from that area as well as from her thighs, but the sequence implies that it's fresh, having been drawn by the claws of the apostle holding her. The shot of her when Guts first sees her shows no blood flowing from that area, and it would have had it been bleeding that profusely from the beginning.

Lastly, later on in the series, there are several times where crazy Casca is assaulted by men who want to rape her and she has flashbacks.  However her flashbacks are always of the apostles, never of Griffith.  Almost as if there was some horrible trauma related to the apostles that she associated with rape...

First off, symbolically, an innumerable number of apostles with the Eclipse as a background is a more fitting comparison for the danger posed by some scoundrels than the single image of Femto does. It can be explained from that consideration alone. It'd be hard to reproduce the "surrounded by enemies" feeling with just Femto.

Second, by the time Femto raped her she was barely conscious and in an altered state of mind/state of shock. The last time we saw her fully conscious is when she's being seized by the apostles (which was in itself already a serious violation for her). That was a traumatic moment, maybe the one when she in her full consciousness felt the most despair and hopelessness (though it's hard to argue given that Femto's ignominious act pushed her over the edge of insanity), hence why she's reminded of it.

There are other small things like the fact that most of the apostles surrounding her when Guts sees her are phallic in pretty distinct ways.  This doesn't prove anything per se, but it seems to imply quite a lot about what these guys were up to.

It implies a lot about what the one holding her was about to do. What was done before is not known. That being said, in volume 18 there is a scene when she's being assaulted and she has a flashback to that time. We see specifically the same apostles who surround her before Guts sees her, all around her while she screams and about to grab her with various "tentacles". At that point, according to that picture, she's still intact. Not a drop of blood on her whole body. If we assume the one who ends up holding her just won the grabbing contest before Guts arrived, well that removes pretty much all mystery from the event.

Those "flashback" scenes aren't necessarily reliable though, as the one in volume 23 seems to be a more fanciful representation.

Also from a story telling perspective, the tension seems somewhat lessoned if the deed is already done

Completely nullified, I'd say. And the storytelling perspective is what matters most here, I believe. Simply said it's about what makes sense.

And really, do you think something that important to the story would have been completely omitted? That the readers would have had to rely on inconclusive drops of blood from tiny shots to deduct what had happened? I mean the rape by Femto was a big deal, a huge deal. It's an important part of the story, depicted elaborately, and was traumatic to everyone involved, including the reader.

But what is it if Femto's just number XX on the list of aggressors? It would just ruin it.

but then again they were likely going to finish her off in the most degrading way possible.

Actually, the way that one apostle was about to kill her (impalement through the genitals) isn't all that bad compared to what you're suggesting (raped by countless monsters).

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 12:10:38 AM »
That's just what you're doing.

Sorry then. It'll at least give us something to discuss during hiatus.

She's special in that she's a woman.
That's just what you're doing.

And that one apostle was going to kill her right there and then, in front of Guts.

I'm not disputing that the apostle was going to kill her in front of Guts. That seems pretty clear. 

That apostle wasn't among those who had captured her either, so maybe they fought for who would have the right to eat her (which is what they mention when capturing her, by the way, not rape)?

Nope. Look at volume 13 again.  They corner her and say "Sacrifice. A sacrifice. Woman... Sacrifice. Sacrifice. Woman sacrifice. Eat now?. Sacrifice. Before that... Sacrifice. Before that... Yes... Before that... Before..." And then rip off her clothes.  They don't argue over who's going to eat her.  They leer and make mention of doing something before eating her.

Now maybe between panels they fight over who does what first. We don't see that. But the whole scene is creepy and ominous and rapey as hell. 

BTW this is from the Dark Horse translation.  The site doesn't actually have a translation for that volume.

They certainly all seemed to take pride in how many sacrifices they'd "got".

They had trophies sure, but I don't recall any competition. No apostles swatting each other around for the right for a kill.

Anyways, if she'd already been raped by everything around at that point, why hadn't they eaten her or torn her to pieces? Your point actually casts more doubt on your interpretation than it adds credence to it. Why keep her alive after having raped her? It makes no sense.

If it was a gang rape it probably took a while.  Perhaps by the time Guts found her they were done and ready to kill her.  It sure looked like they were about to mount her on the tentacle apostles head like another trophy, similar to what Wyald did with the village girl who helped the Hawks. They weren't keeping her alive to show to Guts. He was just another sacrifice and they'd have had no notion of what she meant to him. He just caught up to them as they were about to kill her.

I'll turn it around to you. If they weren't doing anything to her, but were just fighting over her, then why was she in one piece? They are giant monsters that probably would've torn her to pieces if they fought over her. So you're saying that they were gentle about it? Or that they wanted to keep her alive long enough to make a show out of it for some other sacrifice?

And that's assuming the process of raping her with monstrous appendages wouldn't have already killed her or severely wounded her. When Femto violated her, she was rather sensitive, as is explicitly shown to the reader. Had she been butchered by monsters I doubt it would have been the case.

In the real world sure. But this is a manga where the protagonist takes on massive injuries that would kill a normal man and survives.  Who wields a sword the size of a park bench. It's not as if Miura hasn't played around with what is realistic.  If you want to be pedantic, there were plenty of those phallic apostles with visible *ahem* human sized appendages.  Plus, who's to say she wasn't injured? I already mentioned the blood.

Because she's struggled to exhaustion or until they knocked her unconscious? It's not like being raped would necessarily make her unconscious either...

Could be either really I suppose.  Struggling to exhaustion does seem likely.

You don't recall it well. She's bloody from various cuts across her body, not specifically there. There's a picture of blood dropping from that area as well as from her thighs, but the sequence implies that it's fresh, having been drawn by the claws of the apostle holding her. The shot of her when Guts first sees her shows no blood flowing from that area, and it would have had it been bleeding that profusely from the beginning.

I have the volume right here.  She has various cuts across her body but that area has a large stream of blood and it's focused on.  And following that panel Guts flies into a rage as if that detail put him over the edge. As far as when Guts first sees her, that area is never really seen until then. Her body is up and facing away.  Look again.

First off, symbolically, an innumerable number of apostles with the Eclipse as a background is a more fitting comparison for the danger posed by some scoundrels than the single image of Femto does. It can be explained from that consideration alone. It'd be hard to reproduce the "surrounded by enemies" feeling with just Femto.

Maybe, but the fact remains.

Second, by the time Femto raped her she was barely conscious and in an altered state of mind/state of shock. The last time we saw her fully conscious is when she's being seized by the apostles (which was in itself already a serious violation for her). That was a traumatic moment, maybe the one when she in her full consciousness felt the most despair and hopelessness (though it's hard to argue given that Femto's ignominious act pushed her over the edge of insanity), hence why she's reminded of it.

I agree, but what was the trauma the apostles inflicted that keeps bringing her back to this moment?  What made her in a state of shock and gave her such a sense of despair and hopelessness? She'd already seen quite a lot up to this point. That's where we disagree. 

Wouldn't she associate the later attempts of rape with the actual rape by Femto? 

It implies a lot about what the one holding her was about to do. What was done before is not known. That being said, in volume 18 there is a scene when she's being assaulted and she has a flashback to that time. We see specifically the same apostles who surround her before Guts sees her, all around her while she screams and about to grab her with various "tentacles". At that point, according to that picture, she's still intact. Not a drop of blood on her whole body. If we assume the one who ends up holding her just won the grabbing contest before Guts arrived, well that removes pretty much all mystery from the event.

That's a pretty big assumption. Trauma via grabbing contest.

Those "flashback" scenes aren't necessarily reliable though, as the one in volume 23 seems to be a more fanciful representation.

I agree, they're stylistic to represent a horribly traumatic event.

And the storytelling perspective is what matters most here, I believe. Simply said it's about what makes sense...And really, do you think something that important to the story would have been completely omitted? That the readers would have had to rely on inconclusive drops of blood from tiny shots to deduct what had happened? I mean the rape by Femto was a big deal, a huge deal. It's an important part of the story, depicted elaborately, and was traumatic to everyone involved, including the reader. ...But what is it if Femto's just number XX on the list of aggressors? It would just ruin it....

Thematically I agree with you. I do think it's stronger if Guts arrives just before anything "bad" happens.  That Femto stops them and then does it himself.  Especially considering how he first met Casca. But from what we are shown, I think Miura is implying something very dark without having to go into gruesome detail. I don't like it, but it's there.

As far as why it wouldn't be explicitly shown? Do we really want to see that? Showing Femto do it is one thing, showing a hoard of Lovecraftian beasts do it is beyond pornographic. That would be my guess as to why it is only implied. Plus leaving things to the readers imagination (such as Griffith's face in the iron mask) can make things seem even more horrible.





Online Walter

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2013, 12:43:00 AM »
Split the topic and renamed it, because we are now so far beyond this being about Movie 3. Please continue this educational debate.  :femto:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Johnny Apples

Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2013, 01:31:57 AM »
You know how amongst the carnivorous predatory pack animals such as wolves and lions, it is for the alpha male pack leader that the most juiciest and tastiest meat from the prey is reserved? I tend to think something quite like that went down among the apostles, who partook in the Eclipse, when they nabbed Casca. She was the lone young female out of the whole pool of their otherwise all-male victims. As she was special in that way, rather than killing her outright themselves, the apostles were "saving" her up just for their boss. If anyone was gonna maul and savage Casca, it was going to be Femto. The apostles merely held her up and "unwrapped" her open for him. 

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 02:36:51 AM »
Thanks for the new title Walter.  :schierke:

But I guess fair enough that this is a separate topic.

Online Walter

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2013, 02:37:57 AM »
Thanks for the new title Walter.  :schierke:

But I guess fair enough that this is a separate topic.
For the record, I also considered naming it: "Sloppy Seconds Good Enough for Femto? A Fan's Analysis of Bloody Genitals."
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2013, 02:40:12 AM »
Hahahahaha.  Nice.   :ganishka:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2013, 11:07:23 AM »
Nope. Look at volume 13 again.

I don't need to.

They corner her and say "Sacrifice. A sacrifice. Woman... Sacrifice. Sacrifice. Woman sacrifice. Eat now?. Sacrifice. Before that... Sacrifice. Before that... Yes... Before that... Before..." And then rip off her clothes.  They don't argue over who's going to eat her.  They leer and make mention of doing something before eating her.

I know what they say. That doesn't change my point about them fighting for who would have the right to her.

Now maybe between panels they fight over who does what first. We don't see that. But the whole scene is creepy and ominous and rapey as hell.

Can you stop using the word "rapey"? That'd be great.

If it was a gang rape it probably took a while.  Perhaps by the time Guts found her they were done and ready to kill her.  It sure looked like they were about to mount her on the tentacle apostles head like another trophy, similar to what Wyald did with the village girl who helped the Hawks. They weren't keeping her alive to show to Guts. He was just another sacrifice and they'd have had no notion of what she meant to him. He just caught up to them as they were about to kill her.

It probably took a while? They would have actually been rather quick about it. Time elapses, enough time for her to be carried around, but not much time at all if you assume she was raped by a dozen apostles. And the point remains that she was still alive then. The apostle holding her was about to kill her, not use her dead body like a trophy. He was about to kill her in a way that symbolizes rape, and that was emphasized in the panels in a big way.

I'll turn it around to you. If they weren't doing anything to her, but were just fighting over her, then why was she in one piece? They are giant monsters that probably would've torn her to pieces if they fought over her. So you're saying that they were gentle about it?

Well she was bleeding... And it makes sense that they'd keep her somewhat intact for what they planned to do (raping her and killing her), rather than keeping her intact after having done what they wanted with her.

In the real world sure. But this is a manga where the protagonist takes on massive injuries that would kill a normal man and survives.  Who wields a sword the size of a park bench. It's not as if Miura hasn't played around with what is realistic.  If you want to be pedantic, there were plenty of those phallic apostles with visible *ahem* human sized appendages.  Plus, who's to say she wasn't injured? I already mentioned the blood.

You're being disingenuous here. The process would have likely killed her, as it's been depicted in Berserk before when an monster had its way with a woman (or a man). And you say she was injured, then what of when Femto has his way with her? From her reactions to the way he's depicted doing it, it doesn't fit the scenario of that region having already been injured.

I have the volume right here.  She has various cuts across her body but that area has a large stream of blood and it's focused on.  And following that panel Guts flies into a rage as if that detail put him over the edge. As far as when Guts first sees her, that area is never really seen until then. Her body is up and facing away.  Look again.

I don't have to look again. I know the scenes. Like I told you, she's held upside down and no blood is flowing down. There is also not a "large stream" of blood. There's blood, like from the other wounds caused by the apostle holding her. Here are the pictures.



Notice the absence of blood coming down in the first picture. Then blood being shown flowing from fresh cuts in the second, and finally more blood in the third panel, with the apostles seemingly "getting ready" to do the deed. Another panel after that shows them "converging" somewhat towards her. That's another indication of what they were about to do, as opposed to having done. Anyway, notice how the blood flows across her buttocks in the third panel, while in the first picture no blood is shown there. That indicates the wound that drew said blood took place as Guts was watching.

And Guts flies into a rage because he sees her about to be killed, not because he sees that one particular panel, especially from the distance he's at. Please.

I agree, but what was the trauma the apostles inflicted that keeps bringing her back to this moment?  What made her in a state of shock and gave her such a sense of despair and hopelessness?

This kind of situation? It's more than enough.



That's a pretty big assumption. Trauma via grabbing contest.

You're being disingenuous again, or just not understanding what I said.

Thematically I agree with you. I do think it's stronger if Guts arrives just before anything "bad" happens.  That Femto stops them and then does it himself.  Especially considering how he first met Casca. But from what we are shown, I think Miura is implying something very dark without having to go into gruesome detail. I don't like it, but it's there.

As far as why it wouldn't be explicitly shown? Do we really want to see that? Showing Femto do it is one thing, showing a hoard of Lovecraftian beasts do it is beyond pornographic. That would be my guess as to why it is only implied. Plus leaving things to the readers imagination (such as Griffith's face in the iron mask) can make things seem even more horrible.

The problem is that the implying you mention isn't backed up by anything concrete. It's conjecture. You say it's not shown because we wouldn't want to see it? Well I didn't want to see Femto rape her, but I did see it. Miura doesn't stop at such things. And I did see the apostles grab her and molest her anyway, so a panel more wouldn't have been a big deal. And no, it wouldn't have been "beyond pornographic" to make it clear what had happened. There was a myriad of ways to do it that would have been tasteful (see the scene from volume 23 I mentioned earlier, for example). It wasn't done. That's why you rely on that one panel to support your entire hypothesis.

Anyway there's blood in that panel, that's a fact. But does it prove she was raped by apostles off screen, when no hint that she was is given? The real question is which interpretation feels more proper, and you've already answered it.

You know how amongst the carnivorous predatory pack animals such as wolves and lions, it is for the alpha male pack leader that the most juiciest and tastiest meat from the prey is reserved? I tend to think something quite like that went down among the apostles, who partook in the Eclipse, when they nabbed Casca. She was the lone young female out of the whole pool of their otherwise all-male victims. As she was special in that way, rather than killing her outright themselves, the apostles were "saving" her up just for their boss. If anyone was gonna maul and savage Casca, it was going to be Femto. The apostles merely held her up and "unwrapped" her open for him.

Your reasoning has merit, but the apostles were not saving her up for Femto. We clearly see that they were about to impale her before Femto was born. 5 seconds later and she would have been dead.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2013, 12:53:49 PM »
In a sad way, Femto's birth saved her...

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2013, 02:10:33 PM »
Ive always taken it from what's depicted that Casca's wounds and blood were from the Apostle's handling her, the one that holds her up has sharp claw like things on its tentacles. 

But what they say when capturing her does imply a rapey course of actions though...But I don't think Femto would want 'sloppy seconds'.

The apostle dialogue is more meant to traumatize the reader.

I took it that Femto emerges precisely because he aimed to prevent Casca from dying at that point so he could have his way. I didn't take it as being a coincidence or well timed.

That way it gives you the idea that maybe Griff is going to save her, and gives Guts some hope, then it's like oh no sorry it get's worse.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 02:23:20 PM »
rapey

Seriously can you guys stop that?

I took it that Femto emerges precisely because he aimed to prevent Casca from dying at that point so he could have his way.

Don't you think you're overestimating Femto's abilities if you believe he could plan his own birth down to that level of detail?

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 02:27:44 PM »
Seriously can you guys stop that?

Yeah sorry, it's a bit immature, had to laugh at the 'sloppy seconds' comment though.

Don't you think you're overestimating Femto's abilities if you believe he could plan his own birth down to that level of detail?

Well i'm just speculating, the timing is impeccable though, maybe its more the IOE's influence on events.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 02:38:04 PM »
Well i'm just speculating, the timing is impeccable though, maybe its more the IOE's influence on events.

If it were to be anyone's influence, it could only be the Idea of Evil's.

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2013, 02:58:59 PM »
Does Femto's rape seem to be a bit out of character in a way? I mean when we see Femto and Griffith post eclipse he has no regard for Guts whatsoever, and seems to lack emotion.

But raping Casca was obviously meant to hurt Guts, why would he bother if he felt Guts was so beneath him at this point? Maybe he needed to get it out of his system before he could forget about Guts completely?

Sorry if off topic.

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2013, 04:23:54 PM »
Does Femto's rape seem to be a bit out of character in a way?

I'd say it was not. He became evil after all, and that was pretty evil

I mean when we see Femto and Griffith post eclipse he has no regard for Guts whatsoever, and seems to lack emotion.

Why would he? He is absolute. Human's are like ants to him, and Guts is still a man, no matter how extraordinary.
And demonkind do not lack emotions, this was shown by the Count and the love he still had for Theresia even after shedding his humanity. Given how much some of the Godhand convey their feelings (Like Slan and Ubik), I think it's reasonable to assume that Femto has emotions as well


But raping Casca was obviously meant to hurt Guts, why would he bother if he felt Guts was so beneath him at this point? Maybe he needed to get it out of his system before he could forget about Guts completely?

The resentment Griffith felt for Guts was still fresh after his rebirth as Femto. He went from a powerless, broken man to an Enforcer of "God." He swooped down and put Guts in his place, per se. Whether he knew it at the time or not Femto also ended up creating the vessel for his incarnation in the process, so the rape was destined to happen whether he cared about tormenting Guts or not
His thought process could have been: "This payback for everything you caused, Guts. I'm going to violate the woman you love before your eyes" or "Woah hey check me out, I think I'll go rape Casca. What? Guts it still alive? Whatever bro I'm busy"
We'll never know for sure!


Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2013, 04:54:22 PM »
This line "Woah hey check me out, I think I'll go rape Casca. What? Guts it still alive? Whatever bro I'm busy" So funny.

I guess in the process of becoming Femto, Griff purged all of his good human emotions, so what is left is just a distilled version of his drive and ambition, pure ruthlessness to achieve his desires with no compassion for anything that gets in his way. And because Guts got in his way, he was like 'fuck you' I am God now  :femto:

So the good side of Griff died, I liked that Griff.

Yeah that's what confused me as other Apostles have displayed compassion like the Count, whereas Femto seems to have none at all, I guess as a Godhand his evil runs much deeper than a normal Apostle, or maybe its just his utter contempt for Guts. 

Do you think that the vessel had to contain some Femto to work? That's why Guts corrupted son was the only eligible vessel, because it contained Femto's evil seed?

But now it could potentially be a weakness as we are seeing with the Moonlight boy.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 05:17:01 PM by BrokenGriffith »

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2013, 05:06:45 PM »
So the good side of Griff died, I liked that Griff.
Uh, welcome to the series...?

And I agree with Aazealh, the continued use of "rapey" in this thread is becoming disturbing, and needs to stop. You guys do realize the term trivializes the concept of rape, right? Hell, the tone of this whole discussion does...
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2013, 05:22:02 PM »
Uh, welcome to the series...?

And I agree with Aazealh, the continued use of "rapey" in this thread is becoming disturbing, and needs to stop. You guys do realize the term trivializes the concept of rape, right? Hell, the tone of this whole discussion does...

Yeah I was just confused before with the incarnated Griffiths persona, but understand that any compassion he has it comes from the baby's influence and that Femto has none of Griffiths good quality's. Like Guts said 'that thing,...is not Griffith'

I have stopped, sorry I know it's immature but it is an easy way to describe certain things. I am trying to ask some more serious questions and make observations here, I'm not intending to trivialize things, sorry if it comes across in that way.

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Re: Penetration Station: Who REALLY Raped Casca?
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2013, 05:57:03 PM »
I mean when we see Femto and Griffith post eclipse he has no regard for Guts whatsoever, and seems to lack emotion.

Femto's not very emotional as he rapes Casca either. But despite his coldness, even when they meet during the Black Swordsman arc Femto takes obvious pleasure in putting Guts down.

Femto also ended up creating the vessel for his incarnation in the process

He corrupted the embryo, but technically the boy had already been "created".

His thought process could have been: "This payback for everything you caused, Guts. I'm going to violate the woman you love before your eyes" or "Woah hey check me out, I think I'll go rape Casca. What? Guts it still alive? Whatever bro I'm busy"
We'll never know for sure!

I'm going to go ahead and say the first version is the correct one. It seems pretty obvious that the rape of Casca was intended as a way to hurt Guts.

Do you think that the vessel had to contain some Femto to work? That's why Guts corrupted son was the only eligible vessel

There is no way to know. Nowhere is it said that Guts and Casca's son was the only possible vessel.

it contained Femto's evil seed?

The boy didn't "contain" Femto's "seed". It had been corrupted before birth by his evil. That's all.

But now it could potentially be a weakness as we are seeing with the Moonlight boy.

It will most likely be his undoing.

Yeah I was just confused before with the incarnated Griffiths persona, but understand that any compassion he has it comes from the baby's influence and that Femto has none of Griffiths good quality's. Like Guts said 'that thing,...is not Griffith'

Don't be mistaken though, the occasions where the boy manifested himself from within Griffith limit themselves to the Hill of Swords, at least as far as we know. And he came forth because his parents were concerned. There are also many occasions in the story when the "new" Griffith acted nicely simply because it suited his plans, playing the role of the savior and all that.