Author Topic: Why did Zodd warn Guts?  (Read 3675 times)

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Offline Doc

Why did Zodd warn Guts?
« on: August 24, 2013, 06:02:00 PM »
What was Zodd's purpose for warning Guts about his fate with Griffith?

Zodd knows that all is bound within the flow of causality and that Guts cannot escape his fate. He even intervenes during Guts' fight with Boscogn to ensure that Griffith's destiny is fulfilled. I've heard some people say that the foretelling was also Zodd's way of shaping fate, as those words influenced Guts into leaving the Hawks. I always thought it was Griffith's conversation with Charlotte that really swung it for Guts, preceded by the murder of Adonis.

Online Walter

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Re: Why did Zodd warn Guts?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 06:20:31 PM »
We had about a 20 minute talk about this topic in Episode 25 of the SkullKast: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=13690.0 (It starts at about 53:00 if you're interested).

In short, Zodd doesn't seem like the kind of guy to "shape fate." Rather, he has respect for Guts as a warrior and in two instances, gave him a chance to fight on. It just so happens to have worked out that it tied directly into the way things were meant to be, of course.

:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why did Zodd warn Guts?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 06:21:54 PM »
What was Zodd's purpose for warning Guts about his fate with Griffith?

He respected him as an extraordinary warrior and just felt like it as a result? It certainly doesn't seem like Zodd's got any ulterior purpose in that scene.

He even intervenes during Guts' fight with Boscogn to ensure that Griffith's destiny is fulfilled.

His reasons for intervening are his own. "To ensure that Griffith's destiny is fulfilled" is a pretty debatable assumption, and I've actually argued against it recently... (See what Walter posted, he beat me to it).

I've heard some people say that the foretelling was also Zodd's way of shaping fate, as those words influenced Guts into leaving the Hawks. I always thought it was Griffith's conversation with Charlotte that really swung it for Guts, preceded by the murder of Adonis.

I think it's pretty clear that Zodd's warning did not influence Guts' actions.

Offline Doc

Re: Why did Zodd warn Guts?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 01:48:26 PM »
Thanks for the replies, guys. That podcast segment was an interesting listen. I can certainly buy what Aaz says about Zodd's motives "being his own". Zodd knows the grand scheme of things (Griffith is the Fifth God Hand), and that Guts is intrinsically linked to that. He doesn't know the finer details. As someone mentioned on the podcast,  hypothetically Griffith was supposed to lose the Battle for Doldrey once Guts is killed by Boscogn, and that triggers his despair event horizon. Zodd doesn't know that wasn't the case. I'm not sure why I felt Zodd was acting as an agent of causality, at least consciously, anyway.

However, like Griffith & Walter, I beg to differ that Zodd happened upon Wyald & co. by chance. Hey, it's possible, but it feels way too convenient for my liking. I mean, he's obviously followed Guts with interest to observe the battle with Boscogn, why wouldn't he have tracked them down to this point? Similar to SK, they both have an interest in the order of play, although SK is obviously more informed than Zodd because he recognizes Guts as a 'struggler' whereas Zodd wasn't so much warning Guts than predicting his death. Why the need to kill Wyald, though? Walter(?) made the point that Zodd's usual modus operandi is to seek out worthy adversaries, and that to kill Wyald on a whim is strange. So he just happened to gatecrash the scene... because? Maybe that's where I got the impression that Zodd was 'playing his part' so to speak, as his motivation there seems dubious.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why did Zodd warn Guts?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 04:29:16 PM »
However, like Griffith & Walter, I beg to differ that Zodd happened upon Wyald & co. by chance. Hey, it's possible, but it feels way too convenient for my liking. I mean, he's obviously followed Guts with interest to observe the battle with Boscogn, why wouldn't he have tracked them down to this point? [...] Why the need to kill Wyald, though? Walter(?) made the point that Zodd's usual modus operandi is to seek out worthy adversaries, and that to kill Wyald on a whim is strange. So he just happened to gatecrash the scene... because? Maybe that's where I got the impression that Zodd was 'playing his part' so to speak, as his motivation there seems dubious.

Well the thing is that it's just about as "convenient" as many other things are. That's because it was meant to happen like that, as designed by the Idea of Evil. Zodd happens to arrive just at the right moment: Wyald has revealed Griffith's state and destroyed everyone's morale, which plays a direct role in precipitating what happens next, but hasn't quite killed him yet. Had Zodd arrived a minute earlier or a minute later, things could have been radically different. So it's indeed too convenient to be just a chance encounter, but that's explained by the story.

Now what this doesn't address is Zodd's motive. It's not like Zodd was spying on them from a distance, waiting for the right moment. We know that because we see him flying over Wyndham after Guts vanquishes Zodd. Charlotte notices him as she looks out her window. And it's not hard to guess what he was doing: they were all going to the same spot at that point, where the Occultation ceremony was about to take place. So he stumbled on Wyald and the Band of the Falcon while going to the lake, which they were pretty close to by then.

The last question is why intervene? Well, you know, why not? We know for a fact that Zodd never minded getting involved, and from Wyald's previous dialogue it doesn't look like the two had much respect for each other (and really, I can't imagine Zodd caring much for Wyald). I've spoken more elaborately on the topic before, but I don't think there's much to look for here. My guess would be that Zodd considered Wyald a nuisance and viewed his futile struggle to stay alive as a waste of everybody's time. Did he also mean to ensure that Wyald didn't somehow mess things up and prevent the Occultation ceremony from happening? Maybe, since events that interesting rarely happened, and the furthering of the God Hand's cause was not a bad thing for him. Although one has to wonder if he thought Wyald really had the power to impact things beyond the role he had been given. I'm not sure he did.