Author Topic: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura  (Read 76249 times)

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Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #125 on: January 08, 2014, 03:33:56 PM »
euh wow just wow! Indeed a few things that made me think of berserk too. Thx. very nice as always.

Good call Aaz. you're pretty good at anticipating Miura's stuff  :ubik:

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #126 on: January 08, 2014, 05:39:04 PM »
Yep, and actually lots of things about this episode reminded me of Berserk. Blaze wheel, Berserk Armor, etc.

It's Miura's wildest Berserk fantasies that he can't do because fans pissed their pants over trolls and magic armor. =)

Could also be reverse psychology/testing the water for the final giant Beast vs. giant Femto kaiju fight that trashes Falconia. Make my (inner) monster grow! :guts:

Offline Walter

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #127 on: January 08, 2014, 05:51:57 PM »
because A HANDFUL OF DOUBTING IDIOTS pissed their pants over trolls and magic armor. =)
Fixed.

I put some of the 2-page spreads together, but they're all missing a chunk in the middle. I should scan mine when it arrives:

CLICK ME

CLICK ME TOO

CLICK ME THREE

My only disappointment in this issue? It's over in 2 more...  :sad:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline ryOtoha

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #128 on: January 08, 2014, 08:56:54 PM »
And so, one of my dreams came true: Seeing Miura's own twist on the robotto genre. :guts:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #129 on: January 08, 2014, 09:19:05 PM »
Yep, and actually lots of things about this episode reminded me of Berserk. Blaze wheel, Berserk Armor, etc.

I totally love the weird snail creatures carrying the empire's military as well as what I think are the Oracles (the women controlling the giant). They're calling it a Titan, by the way. Anyway that carriage thing plus the giant controlled remotely as well as the giant itself totally remind me of Ganishka in so many ways. And yeah, Delos and Prome's transformation can be related to Schierke's way of helping Guts control the armor, though the connexion is less strong to me. And yeah the eyes do have that badass spiral effect that's reminiscent of what the armor showed when Schierke and Guts bested Daiba and the Kundalini with the blazing wheel.

It's Miura's wildest Berserk fantasies that he can't do because fans pissed their pants over trolls and magic armor. =)

Could also be reverse psychology/testing the water for the final giant Beast vs. giant Femto kaiju fight that trashes Falconia. Make my (inner) monster grow! :guts:

Hehe, I think it's simply cool stuff that wouldn't happen in Berserk because it doesn't fit the context but is cool to show off nevertheless. =) Since it's a new series, might as well not make it redundant, right?

And so, one of my dreams came true: Seeing Miura's own twist on the robotto genre. :guts:

The head of the Delos/Prome giant (its name is "Goura") reminds me of Mazinger Z, what do you think? The way it's split with Prome behind glass in the middle of it. Definite homage to me, especially knowing that Miura is a fan of Gō Nagai.

Goura's totally white, by the way. Like chalk. Its blood is Nectar, and its bones are made out of Orichalcum (the legendary metal of Atlantis)!

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #130 on: January 08, 2014, 10:02:25 PM »
HOLY SHIT.

FUCKING HOLY SHIT WHAT A GREAT FUCKING INSTALLMENT. HOLY SHIT.

Offline ryOtoha

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #131 on: January 08, 2014, 10:21:29 PM »
Exactly :void: The cockpit is clearly reminiscent of  the Hover Pilder docking itself into Mazinger's head.

Goura's totally white, by the way. Like chalk. Its blood is Nectar, and its bones are made out of Orichalcum!

And Mazinger Z is also heavily influenced by greek mythology and mainly by the Talos' myth (a giant man made of bronze) :guts:


Offline Walter

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #132 on: January 09, 2014, 12:07:02 AM »
It's pretty awesome, guys.

When the transformation begins, a massive electricity jolt is released to the nearby area, and Prome uses that to either transmute or convert the sand into the form of Goura. Cool idea!
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #133 on: January 09, 2014, 12:07:44 AM »
HOLY SHIT.

FUCKING HOLY SHIT WHAT A GREAT FUCKING INSTALLMENT. HOLY SHIT.

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Absolutely amazing.

Offline ryOtoha

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #134 on: January 09, 2014, 12:22:06 AM »

When the transformation begins, a massive electricity jolt is released to the nearby area, and Prome uses that to either transmute or convert the sand into the form of the giant. Cool idea!

That's a pretty neat explanation/observation.

Offline Skeleton

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #135 on: January 09, 2014, 01:32:30 AM »
Goura's totally white, by the way. Like chalk. Its blood is Nectar, and its bones are made out of Orichalcum (the legendary metal of Atlantis)!

That's pretty badass.  :guts:

Fixed.

I put some of the 2-page spreads together, but they're all missing a chunk in the middle. I should scan mine when it arrives:

CLICK ME

CLICK ME TOO

CLICK ME THREE

My only disappointment in this issue? It's over in 2 more...  :sad:

I love those two page spreads.  Especially that first one.

Offline Walter

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #136 on: January 09, 2014, 01:35:56 AM »
I love those two page spreads.  Especially that first one.
Yeah, I wanted to put that one together to see what was actually happening (it's emerging up from the ground).
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #137 on: January 09, 2014, 02:07:36 AM »
It's pretty awesome, guys.

When the transformation begins, a massive electricity jolt is released to the nearby area, and Prome uses that to either transmute or convert the sand into the form of Goura. Cool idea!

In the words of Pantera, this episode is goddamn electric! Thanks for all the info Aaz and Walter. Definitely see the Ganishka thing with the big guy's design, the chariot design (those two eyes) that we see first on Page 4. That's one helluva jump by Delos. What do you think is the explosion sort of stuff (or the cause of it) that we see in pages 18/19/23 behind Goura? Do you think the Ganishka looking giant is sort of controlled by the person we see in the lower panel on Page 5/16? 
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline Walter

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #138 on: January 09, 2014, 02:16:04 AM »
What do you think is the explosion sort of stuff (or the cause of it) that we see in pages 18/19/23 behind Goura?
Seems to be the result of Goura swatting down the elephant things.

Quote
Do you think the Ganishka looking giant is sort of controlled by the person we see in the lower panel on Page 5/16?
The oracle—yeah, well at least that's what we postulated on the last podcast.

Based on what little I could understand of the text, I'd say the oracles are a part of the empire that the military either works alongside or works FOR, but it seems to be a tenuous alliance. The leader of the troops laments that they'd been searching for this sleeping titan for 3 years, and have lost many soldiers along the way because of their proximity to these giant creatures. Anyway, the oracles obviously seem to be the ones in charge of or controlling the titan.

BTW, the soldiers share armor similarities with Roman centurions, though that's no surprise to anyone... But what WAS surprising is that the leader has a seashell design on his helmet that looks a lot like the iconic one on Prome's head. It's also on a banner you can just barely see on page 4. Wonder what the connection is...?

More than ever, I really hope we learn how Prome and Delos met. 6 issues is too short...
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #139 on: January 09, 2014, 09:06:51 AM »
BTW, the soldiers share armor similarities with Roman centurions

The designs are actually inspired by Greek soldiers (that helmet with the 2 feathers on the side is characteristic), unsurprisingly. The Romans had borrowed a lot from them as well, which why it's easy to confuse the two.

But what WAS surprising is that the leader has a seashell design on his helmet that looks a lot like the iconic one on Prome's head. It's also on a banner you can just barely see on page 4. Wonder what the connection is...?

The symbol of the empire? Athens was a considerable maritime power in Ancient Greece, could be the relation. Could also relate to Atlantis (since there's been talk of Orichalcum...), the name of which refers to Atlas originally, a primordial titan. Or maybe it's a relic from the old world, from which the empire could be issued (the remnants of its dominant nation?). I guess we'll see.

More than ever, I really hope we learn how Prome and Delos met. 6 issues is too short...

Well, it's short but that's also the beauty of it. You get to see a slice of something amazing and only get a glimpse of the rest of the world. Stimulates the imagination. Anyway I'm sure we will get some background information on their story before the end.

Offline Walter

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #140 on: January 09, 2014, 11:10:00 AM »
The designs are actually inspired by Greek soldiers (that helmet with the 2 feathers on the side is characteristic), unsurprisingly. The Romans had borrowed a lot from them as well, which why it's easy to confuse the two.
Of course, but specific parts of the helmet design looks very much like a Centurion's: http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/H-910914-RD_Roman.jpg

Quote
The symbol of the empire? Athens was a considerable maritime power in Ancient Greece, could be the relation. Could also relate to Atlantis (since there's been talk of Orichalcum...), the name of which refers to Atlas originally, a primordial titan. Or maybe it's a relic from the old world, from which the empire could be issued (the remnants of its dominant nation?). I guess we'll see.
All cool ideas. My first thought given the series' focus on biology was that it has something to do with harnessing the power of the natural world, since the seashell's spiral pattern is a simple symbol of the Golden Spiral/Golden Ratio, or a Fibonacci sequence--a kind of marriage between science and nature. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself  :ganishka:

Quote
Well, it's short but that's also the beauty of it. You get to see a slice of something amazing and only get a glimpse of the rest of the world. Stimulates the imagination. Anyway I'm sure we will get some background information on their story before the end.
And I can appreciate that, but when it comes to following episodic releases like this, I'm preconditioned to a grand series like Berserk that spans multiple volumes. Looking forward to learning just a little more before the end...
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #141 on: January 09, 2014, 01:34:36 PM »
Of course, but specific parts of the helmet design looks very much like a Centurion's: http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/H-910914-RD_Roman.jpg

That is because, as I have mentioned, the Romans greatly inspired themselves (in many things, including armor) from the Greeks, as is common knowledge. It's an attic helmet, a design that originated in Greece. If you need I can post historical data to refute the idea that any part of it would be specifically Roman, but I think the fact that this entire story is a reference to Greek mythology should be sufficient to make you reconsider that assumption.

All cool ideas. My first thought given the series' focus on biology was that it has something to do with harnessing the power of the natural world, since the seashell's spiral pattern is a simple symbol of the Golden Spiral/Golden Ratio, or a Fibonacci sequence--a kind of marriage between science and nature. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself  :ganishka:

Well, you know, why not. The two ideas are not necessarily incompatible. That being said, I think Prome would better fit this refined symbol than an empire bent on subjugating all others before it.

And I can appreciate that, but when it comes to following episodic releases like this, I'm preconditioned to a grand series like Berserk that spans multiple volumes. Looking forward to learning just a little more before the end...

I don't think you'll be disappointed, in that regard or any other. :slan:

Offline Walter

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #142 on: January 09, 2014, 01:41:59 PM »
That is because, as I have mentioned, the Romans greatly inspired themselves (in many things, including armor) from the Greeks, as is common knowledge.
And of course I know that. But when the Romans borrowed concepts, they weren't always carbon copies. And the helmet I linked to has a very specific design (even down to the pins in the helmet) that looks like the one in the issue.

That being said, the Attic Helmet IS very convincing. Check this out, it even has the seashell design: http://www.roman-reenactor.com/attic%20helmet.html So... case closed!

Quote
Well, you know, why not. The two ideas are not necessarily incompatible. That being said, I think Prome would better fit this refined symbol than an empire bent on subjugating all others.
Agreed, which is why the symbol's recurrence is interesting.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #143 on: January 09, 2014, 02:03:50 PM »
And of course I know that. But when the Romans borrowed concepts, they weren't always carbon copies. And the helmet I linked to has a very specific design (even down to the pins in the helmet) that looks like the one in the issue.

The helmet you linked to is from a fantasy replica website that has no legitimacy. That aside, I think its differences to that of the one shown in the episode are if anything a point against your argument.

That being said, the Attic Helmet IS very convincing. Check this out, it even has the seashell design: http://www.roman-reenactor.com/attic%20helmet.html

Yeah, I know. Specifically, on that page, the helmet most resembling what we can see in the episode, and a typical example of the attic design, is this one. It dates back to several centuries before the actual Roman Empire was formed, or the rank of centurion created. Notice the side wings and the spots in which to insert feathers on the side, a characteristic not seen in later Roman variants.

Offline Uriel

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #144 on: January 09, 2014, 03:07:42 PM »
It's Miura's wildest Berserk fantasies that he can't do because fans pissed their pants over trolls and magic armor. =)

Could also be reverse psychology/testing the water for the final giant Beast vs. giant Femto kaiju fight that trashes Falconia.

Haha, we can only hope.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #145 on: January 09, 2014, 08:59:50 PM »
A few random things I find interesting to point out: among her many very scientific comments as Goura is created, Prome mentions that the energy deployed is of 90 terajoules. For reference, the atomic bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki respectively released 63 and 88 terajoules of energy.

That little factoid aside, the commander in armor we see at the beginning of the episode says that they "have managed this expedition not thanks to Olympus gods, but thanks to Titans." That settles the fact that aside from primordial beings like Gaia, whom Prome referenced in the previous episode while talking about Hapi, there are also "higher" gods who seemingly don't favor the empire.

Now that opens a few possibilities, but let's first lay out some background for those not too familiar with these things. In Greek mythology, Prometheus was a titan, the one who gave fire to mankind and is also credited with fashioning man from clay. He wasn't however among the titans who opposed the Olympians during the Titanomachy, despite being associated with them by lineage. Anyway, his punishment by Zeus for stealing fire and giving it to man was to be chained to the Caucasus and have his liver devoured by an eagle every day, while it regrew every night. He was eventually freed by Heracles. Speaking of which, during the Gigantomachy, the hero Heracles fought alongside the Olympians, as Hera had predicted that the battle couldn't be won by the gods alone.

Looking at the story of Gigantomakhia so far, it's obvious to me and was from the beginning that Delos is a transposition of Heracles from the original Greek myth. The heroic warrior, embodiment of masculinity, champion of good. And given her nature and powers, it's also quite clear that Prome is a goddess. Her name suggests a relation to Prometheus, and I can't help but point out that she literally just fashioned a man out of sand in this episode. I can also easily imagine a scenario in which Delos rescued her from imprisonment when he rebelled against his former life. However Prometheus is a man, and aside from that Prome's looks better fit to me the idea of an Olympian than a Titan. Especially when you see what the titans are in the story. Furthermore, Prometheus was a trickser but not really a warrior, and Prome was described in the previous episode as being associated with martial arts. Looking at the Greek pantheon, the obvious answer is of course Athena, virgin goddess of war, heroism, justice, wisdom, mathematics, civilization, and more.

So at this point Prome could still be a few different things, but I'm betting on her character being based on a mix of Prometheus and Athena.

Offline Walter

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #146 on: January 10, 2014, 05:07:50 PM »
Looking at the story of Gigantomakhia so far, it's obvious to me and was from the beginning that Delos is a transposition of Heracles from the original Greek myth. The heroic warrior, embodiment of masculinity, champion of good. And given her nature and powers, it's also quite clear that Prome is a goddess. Her name suggests a relation to Prometheus, and I can't help but point out that she literally just fashioned a man out of sand in this episode. I can also easily imagine a scenario in which Delos rescued her from imprisonment when he rebelled against his former life. However Prometheus is a man, and aside from that Prome's looks better fit to me the idea of an Olympian than a Titan. Especially when you see what the titans are in the story. Furthermore, Prometheus was a trickser but not really a warrior, and Prome was described in the previous episode as being associated with martial arts. Looking at the Greek pantheon, the obvious answer is of course Athena, virgin goddess of war, heroism, justice, wisdom, mathematics, civilization, and more.

So at this point Prome could still be a few different things, but I'm betting on her character being based on a mix of Prometheus and Athena.

Great background work here, thanks Aaz. It is cool to consider transposing the myth onto this, and be able to extrapolate some more details about the story. But while there are certainly similarities, I don't think Miura's beholden to the original tale.

I actually am beginning to wonder if he considers this a retelling of sorts, or if he's merely drawing on certain elements of that myth.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #147 on: January 10, 2014, 06:29:55 PM »
But while there are certainly similarities, I don't think Miura's beholden to the original tale.

Of course, he definitely is not, and if I didn't bother listing the differences and deviations it's because there really just are too many. But I do think a long look at the original tale is a must here in order to fully appreciate what Miura's doing, and given the context I don't believe the similarities can be mere coincidences. Not when we know how meticulous and deliberate Miura is.

I actually am beginning to wonder if he considers this a retelling of sorts, or if he's merely drawing on certain elements of that myth.

I wouldn't call it a retelling. It's just too different, and while Miura's clearly paying homage to that myth and is openly using it as a basis for his story, it's equally clear to me that he didn't intend to be faithful to it in general.

Offline TheBranded1

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #148 on: January 13, 2014, 03:42:00 AM »
I'm glad this miniseries was done. Just to show us what Miura can do and I'm gonna miss it. It has that hook in you that you want to know more as the story progresses.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Gigantomakhia—new 6-part scifi miniseries by Miura
« Reply #149 on: January 14, 2014, 08:30:17 PM »
In YA's latest issue Miura's comment is that he'd always wanted to do a "transforming hero" at some point.