Author Topic: Guts and Corkus's relationship/interactions  (Read 11205 times)

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Offline RanShi

Re: Guts and Corkus's relationship/interactions
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2014, 01:31:27 PM »
I used to hate Corkus too. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. I think he represents a side most human beings have, but few of us admit it, or want to be reminded of it. Corkus is "worldly". He cares about being successful in a way that is socially acceptable. He's also greedy when it comes to both wealth and women. During the ball, he's the one that enjoys the attention of the ladies, he even boasts and makes himself look more like a fierce warrior than he actually is. He cares about them becoming nobles, he seems to be the one who cares most about settling down and having everything he needs now that the band is successful. I would call him materialistic, but also logical and cynical.

None of the other major characters in the band seem to care about that as much, they're more into Griffith, what he's gonna do and following him. Judeau is still himself, and he has his skills, being kinda the ninja character of the band. Pippin is the quiet tank (gives the feel of a native american cheiftain), Rickert is the little cute happy kid, Casca is the crazy bitch with issues, Guts is the unrelenting warrior constantly seeking to prove himself in battle, and Griffith is the one with the dream. Everyone's got his role, and even after the success of the band all of the other members aren't all that exited over the fame itself, they seem more happy that they made it and Griffith finally succeeded. But Corkus really seems to be that tired old dude who just wants to get "made" in the world. He doesn't have any skills or a personality trait that really fits in with the group to improve it, he doesn't seem to have any self-fulfilling goals other than just becoming a rich ass ex-mercenary pimp noble gangster. He even led a band of mercenaries before he joined the band of the Hawk, but it all went to hell. So he used to have a dream of his own, but now he's joined Griffith and wants to ride his wave into success.

But really, Corkus is the typical "fuck bitches, get money" kinda guy. He's a fucking gangster. And he gets angry and hateful if anyone gets in his way. He's spent his entire lifetime going through failures, and THIS TIME, he follows a leader he believes in. Anyone get in the way of that dream coming true, he's gonna hate the person. Naturally. And I think Guts understands this, most of the members in the band just want to be able to live well, comfortably and be happy. So I guess that's partly why he's calm and tolerant of the criticism. And I think he understands the emotions, the hate, but he can't help being himself and he too follows his feelings. And naturally, there's gonna be clashes there. Guts probably also understands that Corkus is a "worldly" or materialistic person, therefore he doesn't understand Guts' calling for self-realization.. so he stays calm.. and he doesn't really get angry about it.

The thing about Corkus as a character that makes him easy to hate, is just that emotion, hate. He hates Guts. He really gets angry and doesn't give a fuck. He sees Guts like a nobody, like a tool to be used by Griffith, and treats him like that too. And I guess that insensitivity is what kinda makes alot of people dislike Corkus, even though he's honest. He uses the attention at the ball after the band's success, he tries to get the most he can get for himself out of every situation. And when they rescue Griffith and discover his state, he's the first one to really spread a major negative vibe. So sure, he's serious, realistic and represents some emotions that most people would feel, but most importantly of all, I think Miura made Corkus character in such a way that the reader would feel that Corkus' behavior is natural and commonly found in most people, but it's behavior that we should all avoid in order to become honourable human beings.

I've honestly seen alot of Corkus in myself as I've read Berserk, some feelings that I feel I never let out (which is a good thing), and in some instances I've felt shame when I realized I've done something similar to someone. Corkus comes from a place of a person who is overly materialistic, doesn't understand spiritual self-fulfillment and isn't particularly sensitive to feelings that go beyond money and pussy, except for his loyalty to Griffith, that he only has until he realizes Griffith can no longer provide him with the money and pussy.

So I think we all can learn alot from Corkus. He is dishonourable, but we all have that aspect within us. That aspect that acts all cool and tough with hubris, hates people who are actually geniuses, only prioritizes material things and doesn't understand much beyond that... but is really a weak human being at the core... and when disaster strikes, he rationalizes is all as a dream, and seeks consolation in the arms of a naked woman - which leads to his death. He is dishonourable, right until his last moment. I think it's good to face that aspect of ourselves, and try to kill it. And I think Guts might see some of Corkus in himself aswell, I think everyone does, but he feels sorry for him.. and really, when you see someone who has a weakness that you can relate to, saying "Well I've been exactly where you've been, I know why you think like that" is probably the worst thing you can say to them. The best thing you can do is listen, and sometimes criticism is legit, but sometimes when it's not, the best thing you can do is just to provide them with an example. Sure Guts made some mistakes here and there, but he followed his heart, and his heart extended to desires higher than money and pussy. That is honourable.

Offline Doc

Re: Guts and Corkus's relationship/interactions
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2014, 09:46:31 PM »
Corkus offering Guts outside doesn't seem that out of character, to me. He clearly wasn't afraid of Guts, getting up in his grill like he did, and making death-threats. It was surprising to me at first how Corkus was never able to provoke Guts into knocking his teeth out, because I sure as hell wanted to the first time I watched the series! It wasn't until repeated viewings and reading the manga that I came to appreciate Corkus' role in the grand scheme of things, and that for whatever reason Guts must have valued his candour.

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Guts and Corkus's relationship/interactions
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2016, 12:04:44 AM »
Revive, but I didn't feel like opening a thread so I'll add my thoughts here.

Its not that he wasn't afraid of Guts, we've seen him actually getting quite scared when Casca pointed her sword a few times at him for teasing her, but more lulled into some kind of sense of security/safety considering Guts was a member of the band, so Corkus felt he wouldn't strike at him. He's shown to be quite big mouthed/quick on the tongue but fast at changing his argument once the things got heated up, but , I think underneath he didn't despise Guts completely. In Guts' fight vs Boscone he's showing signs of panic when Guts' sword broke. Then again, that could have been simply due to shock of seeing Guts on backfoot as opposed to him winning like usually. I just like to think he somehow cared in his own, selfish and pragmatic way.

Corkus is actually one of my favorite characters and probably thid favorite character after Guts and Griffith, which says a lot for a character who's generally considered to be just an average guy" and who's role was to be a realistic-down to earth- kind of a guy with a criticising/pesimistic view on life. Not that I think he was as average as some people made him out to be, he has afterall survived for years as a mercenary which is no small feat in my book.

But, I didn't really realise how much I liked the guy until his death in the occultation ceremony. Out of all of the band of the hawk members, his death hit me the hardest due to how heart-breaking that scene was with him stumbling towards the female apostle and the last shred of sanity/light leaving him, while he latched onto her as means to get away from the cruel reality. For a guy who managed to get his dream fulfilled with the hawks, only to have it cruelly snatched from him, I think that moment brought him a measure of peace and closure he's always wanted. His fight was over and his last view seemed like god-sent ( heh ). Like Griffith once said about the young boy who wanted to become a knight, " maybe he was living his dream in death. "

I miss the guy.





Offline the immortal bob

Re: Guts and Corkus's relationship/interactions
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2016, 07:32:34 AM »
Corkus is "worldly".

. I would call him materialistic, but also logical and cynical.

 He doesn't have any skills or a personality trait that really fits in with the group to improve it, he doesn't seem to have any self-fulfilling goals other than just becoming a rich ass ex-mercenary pimp noble gangster. He even led a band of mercenaries before he joined the band of the Hawk, but it all went to hell. So he used to have a dream of his own, but now he's joined Griffith and wants to ride his wave into success.

But really, Corkus is the typical "fuck bitches, get money" kinda guy. He's a fucking gangster. And he gets angry and hateful if anyone gets in his way. He's spent his entire lifetime going through failures, and THIS TIME, he follows a leader he believes in. Anyone get in the way of that dream coming true, he's gonna hate the person. Naturally. And I think Guts understands this, most of the members in the band just want to be able to live well, comfortably and be happy. So I guess that's partly why he's calm and tolerant of the criticism. And I think he understands the emotions, the hate, but he can't help being himself and he too follows his feelings. And naturally, there's gonna be clashes there. Guts probably also understands that Corkus is a "worldly" or materialistic person, therefore he doesn't understand Guts' calling for self-realization.. so he stays calm.. and he doesn't really get angry about it.

The thing about Corkus as a character that makes him easy to hate, is just that emotion, hate. He hates Guts. He really gets angry and doesn't give a fuck. He sees Guts like a nobody, like a tool to be used by Griffith, and treats him like that too. And I guess that insensitivity is what kinda makes alot of people dislike Corkus, even though he's honest. He uses the attention at the ball after the band's success, he tries to get the most he can get for himself out of every situation. And when they rescue Griffith and discover his state, he's the first one to really spread a major negative vibe. So sure, he's serious, realistic and represents some emotions that most people would feel, but most importantly of all, I think Miura made Corkus character in such a way that the reader would feel that Corkus' behavior is natural and commonly found in most people, but it's behavior that we should all avoid in order to become honourable human beings.

I've honestly seen alot of Corkus in myself as I've read Berserk, some feelings that I feel I never let out (which is a good thing), and in some instances I've felt shame when I realized I've done something similar to someone. Corkus comes from a place of a person who is overly materialistic, doesn't understand spiritual self-fulfillment and isn't particularly sensitive to feelings that go beyond money and pussy, except for his loyalty to Griffith, that he only has until he realizes Griffith can no longer provide him with the money and pussy.

So I think we all can learn alot from Corkus. He is dishonourable, but we all have that aspect within us. That aspect that acts all cool and tough with hubris, hates people who are actually geniuses, only prioritizes material things and doesn't understand much beyond that... but is really a weak human being at the core... and when disaster strikes, he rationalizes is all as a dream, and seeks consolation in the arms of a naked woman - which leads to his death. He is dishonourable, right until his last moment. I think it's good to face that aspect of ourselves, and try to kill it. And I think Guts might see some of Corkus in himself aswell, I think everyone does, but he feels sorry for him.. and really, when you see someone who has a weakness that you can relate to, saying "Well I've been exactly where you've been, I know why you think like that" is probably the worst thing you can say to them. The best thing you can do is listen, and sometimes criticism is legit, but sometimes when it's not, the best thing you can do is just to provide them with an example. Sure Guts made some mistakes here and there, but he followed his heart, and his heart extended to desires higher than money and pussy. That is honourable.

all this can be summed up as Corcus is practical.

Spritual self fufillment never takes it's place as the actual cause for the disaters in berserk.  Corcus is more of a veteran, he has seen the wheel.  That wheel is the world.

This time, this season, he's getting his harvest.  Does that sound mean yes.  But mean in the same way of an old farmer, and older co worker.

Corcus tells Guts he is nothing, but it seems to be in a way that is semi tolerable.  In the way that Corcus semi tolerates his existence. 

Because he lives by the reality of don't screw it up, because of this he doesn't seem like someone you can learn from, because he doesn't say there is much greatness to what they do.  But the reality he wanted was for the rest of the band of the hawk as well.

If you look at it practically he is saying to Guts, "you don't have to kill anymore, you don't have to risk, your life, you don't have to be on the bottom."  Because of this he brings up social class, something Guts doesn't abide by much at all.

Judeau is theatrical, magical, and cagey, but he never speaks to guts about what could go wrong, when guts is already experiencing doubt.

Corcus on the other hand has lived by that doubt.  In reality the band of the hawk probably would have gone on fighting battles with the kusharn now that the war with tudor had been won.   But Corcus is focused on retirement basically, so he relates to a real world anxiety we all feel.  saving the little we have, because our repeated viewings of the less optimistic outcomes of practical enterprises in existing in life.

Also he was incredibly good to rickert, and protective of Griffith.   His treatment of Guts is that of the new guy,  so he is a to me an easily dislikable character if you have ever been that new guy, but you also notice he doesn't want Guts to leave either once he is accepted.

Sweet Prince

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Re: Guts and Corkus's relationship/interactions
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2016, 05:17:09 PM »
Interesting thread. Corkus strikes me as a pretty realistic character with believable motives. He is, I think, essentially a bumpkin who dreams of wealth, status and glory. I find that a lot of what he says and does during the Golden Age Arc helps to prevent the tone of the story, in certain moments, from slipping into... well, schmaltz (for lack of a better word). His tendency to put a pin in any potential melodrama by making some kind of cynical remark, as well as his frosty yet often ambiguous relationship with Guts, always kind of intrigued me.

Regarding Guts' lack of hostility in response to Corkus' criticisms... I've always put that down to Guts' indifference towards Corkus' opinion. Guts was on the receiving end of mockery and scorn for pretty much his whole life, after all. I just assumed the effect of Corkus telling Guts he's an A-hole would be like "water off a duck's back" to Guts. However, I think the idea that Guts respects Corkus as his comrade and silently acknowledges the value of his criticism makes much more sense, especially given what we know of Guts as a perceptive and introspective guy. Again, interesting thread!  :ubik:
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 11:01:44 PM by Sweet Prince »

Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Guts and Corkus's relationship/interactions
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2016, 04:26:57 AM »
I was always amazed by Corkus and Guts. I would almost say that Guts rather liked Corkus. I think that deep down Guts valued Corkus's opinions and maybe even agreed with them a little. Corks was so hostile with Guts I was shocked he never got punched in the face, but guts just listened to him. One bit that stood out to me was when Corkus went off on Guts and basically called him a dumb jock when Guts was complaining about guarding the nobles fox hunt. I think this scene is the closest I have ever seen Guts get even remotely irked at Corkus tearing into him. But I also took it that he was mostly irked by being told he did not appreciate the honor he was being given rather than holding it against Corkus. Guts got more riled over Casca's criticism of him which surprised me because their criticism seemed similar a lot of the time.
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Offline Uriel

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Re: Guts and Corkus's relationship/interactions
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2016, 11:36:25 AM »
I posted something about Corkus in 2004. It was a repost of an older post I had made on another forum, so this is probably older than 12 years. Yikes.

It's awfully written, with a myriad spelling and grammatical errors, but I still feel the same about some things. Corkus was one of the only ones grounded in reality. I still find his calling Guts out on his lofty dream to be very refreshing. As I get older, the more I appreciate and enjoy Corkus' perspective.

Thanks for bringing rekindling this thred! It was fun reading over Wally's fervent defense of Corkus too.