Author Topic: When Griffith strangled Guts...  (Read 5661 times)

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Offline Doc

When Griffith strangled Guts...
« on: March 19, 2014, 12:43:58 PM »
I've been trying to interpret whether Guts really understood Griffith's anger towards him during the scene in the torture chamber. Was it that, coupled with Griffith's crippled state, that brought Guts to tears? Did he shoulder the burden of responsibility in that moment?

Offline Walter

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Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 01:04:14 PM »
Guts thought Griffith was trying to embrace his old friend. Judo appears to detect that the sentiment might have been different, but doesn't say anything.
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Offline Gobolatula

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Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 05:50:37 PM »
I always interpreted it like this. I could be wrong and if I am, please correct me:

1) Before the choke, Guts is overwhelmed with all sorts of guilt. He's seeing Griffith there looking all fucked up and he can't help but think he had a part of this. He's thinking that if he had stuck around, this wouldn't have happened. At this point in the story, Guts is feeling all sorts of regret.
2) Griffith reaches up to choke.
3) Guts embraces him as if to say, "I'm so sorry. I never meant for this to happen." Perhaps he saw a failed attempt at a choke and held him and cried as if to apologize.

I think Guts would've preferred to see a Griffith that *could* choke him. But the fact that he couldn't just upset him.

It's really a beautiful scene. God damn, I'm looking at it now.

Offline Walter

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Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 06:22:53 PM »
It's difficult to be "wrong" in that particular scene, since there is no dialogue. However, I've never envisioned Guts truly internalizing that much guilt in that scene. I think just seeing his friend in that condition, so different from the Griffith he knew, drove him to tears. Then, moments later, he channels that into anger at his torturer.

As for the strangling attempt, we don't see Guts reacting to it adversely. We do however see Judo react to it. I guess I just believe this scene works better if Griffith can't effectively communicate his malice, and instead, it is interpreted ironically as an embrace by Guts. But the audience (and Judo) saw a glimmer of it.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 07:45:07 PM »
I've been trying to interpret whether Guts really understood Griffith's anger towards him during the scene in the torture chamber. Was it that, coupled with Griffith's crippled state, that brought Guts to tears? Did he shoulder the burden of responsibility in that moment?

I don't think Guts realized how Griffith felt, nor that he himself felt a lot of guilt about it. However, to me the way the choke scene is framed conveys a pause on Guts' part before he hugs Griffith. I don't think he saw the true intent of it like Judo did, but he did have a moment of pause/confusion before interpreting it as an attempt at an embrace. And of course the sorry state of his friend, so far from his former grandeur, brought him to tears. On that topic, it's interesting to see how Griffith himself is affected by that reaction. His year of delirious hatred while tortured doesn't stand up to reality, and he ends up sharing the moment, putting his hand over Guts' own.

Offline Patou244

Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 08:52:01 PM »
that scene was always so raw for me in both the anime and especially the manga, I love how Miura conveys so much without even any inner dialogue to convey what is going on in a characters head. Just visual reactions.

What is weird is that in the anime movie Griffith  took hold of Guts throat and Guts had to either pull himself away or some how remove Griffith's hand for him. was that how it played out in the manga? I was pretty sure that Griffith's hand flopped down from the effort of putting his hand up to touch Guts throat without Guts breaking grip.

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 11:00:56 AM »
What is weird is that in the anime movie Griffith  took hold of Guts throat and Guts had to either pull himself away or some how remove Griffith's hand for him. was that how it played out in the manga? I was pretty sure that Griffith's hand flopped down from the effort of putting his hand up to touch Guts throat without Guts breaking grip.

Griffith had no gripping strength at all, so while he put his hand on Guts' neck, it's not like he could exert any pressure. Guts moved to hug Griffith and that motion alone was sufficient to dislodge Griffith's hand. Nothing too complicated really. Check out how it was done in the TV series if you need, it's more accurate than what was depicted in the movie.

Offline Heavenly Maiden

Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2014, 03:43:31 PM »
. Nothing too complicated really. Check out how it was done in the TV series if you need, it's more accurate than what was depicted in the movie.

can you blame with the way the movie felt the need to change even the smallest details? I had several "wasn't this this way" moments while watching the movies, even the uncomplicated stuff, it was enough to bug me. Also funny how the anime series is more accurate to the manga even though it changed a lot in the lest few episodes.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2014, 05:14:00 PM »
can you blame with the way the movie felt the need to change even the smallest details? I had several "wasn't this this way" moments while watching the movies, even the uncomplicated stuff, it was enough to bug me.

Yeah it changed a lot of things just for the sake of it. Little things that probably didn't matter to them but that often have a significance they missed and therefore lower the quality of the work. It's regrettable, like a lot of other things when it comes to this project.

Also funny how the anime series is more accurate to the manga even though it changed a lot in the lest few episodes.

The TV series also changed things stupidly numerous times and not just in the last episodes, but yeah overall it was a lot more faithful.

Offline Patou244

Re: When Griffith strangled Guts...
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2014, 07:13:35 PM »
Griffith had no gripping strength at all, so while he put his hand on Guts' neck, it's not like he could exert any pressure. Guts moved to hug Griffith and that motion alone was sufficient to dislodge Griffith's hand. Nothing too complicated really. Check out how it was done in the TV series if you need, it's more accurate than what was depicted in the movie.

I just rewatched this in the anime I noticed that the anime cut out the scene where Judo notices some malice from Griffith when he tries to grab his neck. Interesting because I could have sworn the anime had this in there. I guess that is one thing the movie did right for once.

I remember being slightly confused by this little exchange and it is so nice to have other people to bounce off little details like this off of. It makes the whole expereince all the more enjoyable.

Casca from Berserk. May 2014 be the year Casca fans get to see a return of her true self, the kickass warrior and leader of the Hawks/Falcons.