Author Topic: "Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy  (Read 2453 times)

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Offline Spearman

"Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy
« on: August 06, 2014, 12:20:37 PM »

I have an impression that "Berserk" to some extent travestizes the heroic fantasy concept-especially the works of Tolkien and Lewis.
For it is not some perfect lofty (human or divine) hero, who rescues the occupied and oppressed country from the ruthless fiendes, but a demonic figure himself !
Though he is probably still better than his (Kushan) foes...

Offline Aazealh

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Re: "Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 02:25:19 PM »
Berserk takes inspiration from classic folktales, myths, and legends, which is also what J. R. R. Tolkien did when he created his works. In that regard, it can hardly be said that Berserk as a story is a transgression of some concept that Tolkien would have supposedly established. Especially since the idea of a false savior is not at all uncommon in mythology (it is found in the Bible, for example).

As for Griffith being better than Ganishka, that is probably not the case, no. In the grand scheme of things, Ganishka was just a pawn.

Offline Spearman

Re: "Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 07:43:49 AM »

I did not single out Tolkien, but rather the entire "heroic fantasy" concept (noble virtue vs. dark evil).
Griffith as false savior ?
And where is the real one ?

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As for Griffith being better than Ganishka, that is probably not the case, no.

At least for now he appears to be better than the Kushans.

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In the grand scheme of things, Ganishka was just a pawn.

Why ?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: "Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 08:46:59 AM »
I did not single out Tolkien, but rather the entire "heroic fantasy" concept (noble virtue vs. dark evil).

You said his works were "especially" concerned, so I'm afraid you did single him out. That aside, the concept of Good vs Evil predates the vaguely defined genre that is Heroic Fantasy and encompasses much more than it as well. Berserk doesn't adhere to these conventions, but neither do a lot of other fantasy works. To be honest I fail to see how this is supposed to be of interest. This feels like the kind of discussion one would have about the cultural significance of the works of Michael Moorcock.

Griffith as false savior ?
And where is the real one ?

At least for now he appears to be better than the Kushans.

Why ?

Have you not read the manga? You ask questions that are answered by the story itself. Yes, Griffith is a false savior. He's really Femto, the fifth member of the God Hand, and he's not acting for the salvation of mankind, but for its damnation. He is, at his core, evil. The current situation of the world was engineered by the God Hand and their master, the Idea of Evil, specifically to place them in a position of unprecedented power over humanity. The former Kushan emperor, Ganishka, who was an apostle, played a key role in bringing forth the advent of Fantasia (and Falconia). It couldn't have happened without his involvement, nor could have Griffith's current status among the people been established. That's all pretty clear.

As for a real savior? First off, there doesn't have to be one. Second, if anyone were to fit the bill to any extent, it'd have to be the protagonist of the story: Guts.


Offline Spearman

Re: "Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 05:01:14 PM »
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Have you not read the manga?

Yes, whether you believe me or not.

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The current situation of the world was engineered by the God Hand and their master, the Idea of Evil, specifically to place them in a position of unprecedented power over humanity.

Where is it claimed ?
Did God Hand "engineer" Ganishka's rebellion against itself ?

Quote
As for Griffith being better than Ganishka, that is probably not the case, no.

It is still the case-for now. Let us see, what will happen in the next chapters.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: "Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 05:22:17 PM »
Where is it claimed ?

It's all over the manga, hence my other question. I don't have the time to just recapitulate half of the story in detail, but really, do you just believe that Falconia's appearance was merely a chance happenstance? Femto just got lucky? Try to look at the big picture. And just re-read the relevant sections of the story (i.e. the Millennium Falcon arc) and see how it all unfolds. It's all quite plain to see.

Did God Hand "engineer" Ganishka's rebellion against itself ?

It was engineered, that is for sure. The mastermind is most likely the Idea of Evil.

It is still the case-for now. Let us see, what will happen in the next chapters.

They're called episodes, not chapters. And really, there aren't any doubts about the outcome of the story. Griffith is evil, and the fate of mankind as a whole is already worse now than it was when the Kushans invaded Midland, since there is only one place in the world that is safe for humans. Look at what Raban says about it. Again, this is all very simple and it seems quite obtuse to deny it.

Offline Spearman

Re: "Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 05:32:07 PM »
Any kind of discussion with individuals, who insult their opponents instead of supporting their words with reasons makes absolutely no sence.

Farewell !

Offline Aazealh

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Re: "Berserk" And Heroic Fantasy
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 05:39:57 PM »
Any kind of discussion with individuals, who insult their opponents instead of supporting their words with reasons makes absolutely no sence.

Farewell !

I'm sorry but it seems to me that you're the one not bothering to support your assertions. Nor would I say that I have insulted you. But then again, I also don't consider myself an "opponent" of the people I talk to on Internet forums. Either way, best of luck to you in your future endeavors!